SW 642 vs Kahr PM9

[skater4790]

I been carrying my S&W 442 for the last few months because it's easier to carry but after seeing this video I thinking going back to my Kahr PM9. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKiVy1DnJs8

[JustinN]

Cool video. Definitely shows the advantage on a Semi-Auto if you are able to work one properly.

[JLeephoto]

I like 'em both and choose to carry the PM9 because I shoot it better. The semi-Auto obviously has an advantage in terms of firepower and reload ability. The revolver is more fool proof. If the real test is which one could be brought to bear fastest, I think he should have used pocket holsters for both, and I would hope that I have enough situational awareness to already have my hand in my pocket if something looks hinky.
Bottom line for me is that if the goal is to extricate one's self safely from a life or death situation, what's most important is that you have something readily available that works well and you can shoot accurately at self defense distance under great strain. Either of these weapons fits the bill just fine.

[JERRY]

the semi auto is quicker to reload for the average shooter, even for the pros but.....his times were tained by drawing from the pocket which is slower than IWB, and he wasted time with the reload using both hands to empty the gun.

im not an expert by any means, but i use my left hand only with the revolver upside down (muzzle up) and my thumb is pushing the ejector rod while my right hand is readying the reload.

if he got more training with a revolver he'd be a bit faster, but still slower than a semi-auto.

[JFootin]

I have a CM9 and a S&W Model 638 Airweight 38spl. They are my two favorite carry guns; I have a great fondness for both of them :p. I also have a Taurus 738 TCP 380 with two spare magazines (19 rounds total) in a very discreet location constantly with me as a BUG. It is my New York reload, so I do not usually carry a reload for the 638 or a spare mag for the CM9, although I have a pocket mag holder and a usually empty weak side pocket where I could carry a spare mag for the CM9. Lots of the time the TCP is all I am packing.

Of my two primary carry pistols, I favor the 638. The reason is that it carries better and it is 5 that will go bang every time. I have found that I can carry that pistol in the AIWB position under an untucked shirt perfectly comfortably all day long, I can draw it quickly and discreetly, and I can draw it just as well when seated as when standing.

I really prefer the AIWB position. But I have found that, for me and my build, the CM9 doesn't work well in that position. So I carry it in a PJ IWB holster strong side behind my hip, where it is just as "can't feel it there" comfortable all day long as the 638 is in front. The pistol is 100% reliable and I trust it to go bang 7 or 13 times. So I still carry my CM9 buddy some of the time. (Heck, because of the different carry locations I could carry both. LOL! :D)

In regards to the common opinions that it is hard to shoot the J-frame well, I say get a trigger job! IMO, the culprit is that 11 lb factory DA trigger pull. No way to stay on aim pulling that much poundage on a long trigger stroke unless you're Superman. I got my 638 ported and got a trigger job that reduced the DA pull to 4.25 lb while still producing deep, strong primer hits that go bang every time. I find that I can now shoot it just as accurately at SD distances as my CM9. I paid a gunsmith to do it, but I have felt a couple of revolver triggers that were just as light and smooth after the owners polished everything and fired/dry fired them a lot.

Both guns are great carry guns and I am glad that I have them both! :D

[hardluk1]

I carried a taurus 85ss for 20 years but back then there were no small, lite and thin semi-auto options. First flat pistol I bought to try was a pf-9 and changed to that for a few years and finally a cw9 and cm9. Just for the reasons in the video , easy to fire rounds and quicker reloads on target over the revolver. I pocket my cm9 or iwb the cw9 and don't think as nice as that old taurus is i would ever cc it again.

I had a taurus tcp but daughter got it and wife has her one too plus a mp9c. All grew up learning with revolvers still.

[skater4790]

The reason I started carrying the SW 442 was because I dislocated my left shoulder and was having problems racking the slide and reloading the Kahr. I was able to shoot the SW 442 with one hand and reload by placing the 442 in my injured side hand (left) and use my good side hand (right) to reload the 442. I found the 442 easy to pocket carry so after I healed I kept carrying it. I liked what JLeephoto said, what's most important is that you have something readily available that works well and you can shoot accurately at self defense distance under great strain.

[340pd]

As stated by someone far more gun savvy than me.

a.)The most reliable handgun in the world is the one you practice with the most.
b.)The handgun caliber with the greatest stopping power is the one you make headshots with.
c.) The best weapon for _____? See a. & b.

[dp509]

All responses are great.
It all depends on the person.
Personally, I just sold my 442 no lock and plan to stick with my PM9.
Each to his own.

[Fxstchewy]

I don't like IWB, so from the pocket for ME the S&W 642/442 is quicker out of the pocket and first shot fired, might not need but one or two of the Speer 135 +p GD's to do the job, that being said when carrying OWB i like my CM9 because with my Comp-tac holster it is quick to draw and has 7rds plus loaded with Speer GD's 124+p probably wins the cartridge contest.
I guess it depends on personal preference for carry. :)

[hardluk1]

I can draw my cm9 from my front pocket at least as well as the revolver i carried for 20 years. Also use a comp-tac minotuar neutral for iwb with a cw9 mainly.

[jeepster09]

You are so right....personal preference.....I prefer IWB because I want the element of being CONCEALED, so as not to attract attention. The libs go bananas when they see a gun. I wear with shirt tucked over gun at either 2 or 4 oclock position.

[les strat]

a 442/642 will come out of pocket 100x faster than any semiauto. But most people cannot hit well with the short barrel and 13 lb pull without a good deal of practice. It is a great pistol for reliability and conforms to the body well with it's curves.

The CM9/PM9 is faster to reload and typically easier to be accurate with. It hides pretty well in the pocket too, but takes a little longer to get out than a hammerless j-frame. The ability to add night sights is there as well.

[LProf]

My first carry gun was a 642. Loved how easy it was to carry, but, notwithstanding hours at the range, never could shoot it with the kind of accuracy I felt necessary for a self defense gun, so wound up selling it.

[Bill K]

a 442/642 will come out of pocket 100x faster than any semiauto. ...

Les, I know you're using hyperbola to make a point but, in your opinion, what makes the draw so much faster with those two revolvers?

In my opinion, for a one on one situation, the first with CM hits has the best chance to win the day. I see no advantage for either gun over the other being drawn from the same concealment/holster position. I'm also assuming roughly equivalent terminal ballistics between the two guns. No .22 auto vs. a .357 revolver for instance.

[Fxstchewy]

I know in my pockets the J frame with the rounded back slides out where the CM9 kinda "catches" because of the slide being square, best way i can describe it.....

[les strat]

Les, I know you're using hyperbola to make a point but, in your opinion, what makes the draw so much faster with those two revolvers?

In my opinion, for a one on one situation, the first with CM hits has the best chance to win the day. I see no advantage for either gun over the other being drawn from the same concealment/holster position. I'm also assuming roughly equivalent terminal ballistics between the two guns. No .22 auto vs. a .357 revolver for instance.


I know in my pockets the J frame with the rounded back slides out where the CM9 kinda "catches" because of the slide being square, best way i can describe it.....

The 642 is just slick. Having carried both for some time now, I have never owned a pocket pistol that would clear as fast. There just isn't anything to hang up, especially with a good holster like a Nemesis. Greased lightning.

The CM9's rear sights can hang up on the front top part of the pocket, and being squared, it just doesn't clear the pocket as fast, especially in jeans.

That said, I can't hit with a j-frame for crap. Even after hundreds of rounds practicing. I basically have to bury the front sight to get it on paper. I could plug a bad guy at SD distances <10ft, but the CM9 is definitley easier to be accurate with when practicing IME.

I agree, both are awesome at their role as small concealable pistols for SD, and both have a few things over the other.

[hardluk1]

Just a couple opinions on what clears a pocketbest. Never had a handgun hang in my pocket, revolver or semi-auto. May not be as fast as some sound like they are . I pull both with my thumb over the sites to besure the pistol clears both the pocket and to push on the holster to besure it stays behind. Then roll my thumb to the side as it clears the pocket.

I will say if a shirt is tucked with iwb the pocket is by far quicker. If wearing a cover shirt then iwb is quicker than pocket.

[muggsy]

I don't intend to reload. I'm going to drop my empty CM9 and draw my P380. :)

[jocko]

IMO to much to do about fast draw . I see no hindrance in my rear sight grabbing in my pants pocket on my PM9. I damn near have to get my entire hand in the pocket anyways to get the gun out safely. Just not a big deal. situaltional awareness is faster than any gun draw area.... carry what is best for u, carry where it is best for u. BUT CARRY.99.998% . ur never gonna have to worry about how fast or how slow u get that gun out either.....

[jeepster09]

IMO to much to do about fast draw . I see no hindrance in my rear sight grabbing in my pants pocket on my PM9. I damn near have to get my entire hand in the pocket anyways to get the gun out safely. Just not a big deal. situaltional awareness is faster than any gun draw area.... carry what is best for u, carry where it is best for u. BUT CARRY.99.998% . ur never gonna have to worry about how fast or how slow u get that gun out either.....


SO TRUE....that is why CONCEALED is important, you have the element of surprise in your favor. That is also why I like IWB "tuckable" carry....no one knows you have it and you don't need to worry about "quik draw" contest:53:

[Internet Blohard]

It seems to me that it would have been better for him to compare the two pieces carried and drawn in exactly the same way. I think the significance of the difference between both pieces drawn from the pocket (or from the belt) would have been much closer than the way he did it. His method makes the auto clearly superior to the revolver for that critical first shot. I don't believe that is necessarily the case.

I think he would have found his first shot on target with each gun drawn from the pocket to be similar in terms of time. In my case, I can draw and fire the hammerless snub from the pocket quicker than I can with the PM9 drawn from the pocket. I think that's true for many shooters. It is all about developing that smoothness in draw and presentation. Drawn from the belt, the times for that first shot from each should be much closer.

Secondly, the speed reloading procedure for a revolver can be done considerably faster than he manages to do it even by a non-expert shooter. But we all are where we are in our development I suppose.

It is self evident that few can reload the revolver as fast as the auto....we all know that. But the revolver reload doesn't have to be nearly as slow as he is depicting.

My intent here is not to criticize his shooting but to contrast the differences between the two platforms when each is being used and where I think his comparisons, while true enough and relevant for him, are not fair to the revolver.

[jocko]

a hammerless outta come out faster than a hammer gun or maybe even a PM9, but for me a mute point. What ever is in my pocket is gonna come out as fast as I can do it. YMMV. Nodoubt the same gun in anutter person pocket could be faster and it could be slower. again a mute point. Jeepster says it right IMO. t is theelement of surprise that is important. If u a uniform co sitting ast a coffee copunter and I a civilian sitting at the utter end.I know who is gonna get shot first, and it ain't gonna be me.. again IMO to much to do about nuttin..

[les strat]

Whatever you carry, just make sure you can get it out quickly as any struggle or comotion, and your dead. Untucking your shirt or fiddling with pocket carry in tight pockets aint good at all. Time is the #1 factor.

I carry a G19 99% of the time anyway now. It hides well IWB, and I can just draw quickly and hit with it like second nature... at 5 ft or 25 ft. 16 times ;)

[jocko]

do u shoot gangster style?/ Or what. I kind alike the stance of grabbing my cahones and having my PM9 about 3 feet directly over my head firing at the same time. Just sayin

Man I am gonna tell ya, if u think Rambo looked tuff coming out of that tree all muddied up, a cahonne stance is just terrifying.. Very few that I know can do the cahonne stance. Most stick with the weaver or iso stance. Mind u though this is not for women, ...Just sayin:popcorn:

[Flincher]

I own a S&W 642 ( IMHO the finest snub nosed revolver there is-especially after I butter up the inards) and carry in a cross-draw holster when I'm traveling. Closer to home I carry my P380 in a Desanti pocket holster. S&W and Kahr ?? What can you say--probably the highest quality handguns out there:)

[addictedhealer]

Love my snubby, especially with a nice iwb holster. I think everyone should have one. Talking simplicity it is good as it gets.

I love my Kahr as much though.
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