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ORSalesRep
03-21-2010, 12:36 PM
Hi all,

I have a P9, black polymer and factory blackened, diamond coated, stainless steel slide. I also have a HG-575 Ultrasonic Gun Cleaner.
http://www.cleanosonic.com/home-weapons-cleaner.html
I have used the ultrasonic on the Kahr once so far. I was wondering if anyone else has had experience using an ultrasonic cleaner on the Kahr polymer and blackened slide. Are there any who would say not to continue to use it because it will damage the finish?
So far my experience has been that it may have ever so slightly lightened the black finish to a black-grey, but I may be imagining this. I find that if I re-lube the metal and keep it nicely oiled the richer/darker finish is restored.
Lastly, I did have the mishap of the slide falling onto it's side during the cleaning process and the metal basket that it was in did create two very subtle discolorations where the grates of the basket were making contact with the slide. Again, the more oil, the less noticeable. Is there a way to re-darken the black? I have been reading about Wheeler Engineering's Cerama-Coat, which it appears one can apply themselves.
Wheeler Engineering Cerama-Coat 4 oz Aerosol Black - MidwayUSA (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=455475)

Robargun's blackening of stainless process, which I would have to send the gun in to have done.
Robar Black Oxide, e-Nickel & Chrome Sulfide Finishes (http://www.robarguns.com/additional_finishes.htm)

Brownell's GunKote, which is another baked on finish that can be self applied.
BROWNELLS : GUN-KOTE OVEN CURE, GUN FINISH - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1150/Product/GUN_KOTE_trade__OVEN_CURE__GUN_FINISH)

Duracoat, again appears to be a baked on do it yourself solution as well.

One of the major concerns over the baked process and doing it myself, is that I am thinking that I cannot bake the slide @ 350 degrees for and hour with the trijicon sights and the striker housing still in place and I don't think it would be an easy task to remove the sights and have never disassembled/removed a striker housing.

Has anyone had experience with any of these products and would the sights have to be removed and the slide completely broken down to bake the slide?

Thanks for your knowledge and expertise!

Steve

jocko
03-21-2010, 01:03 PM
Hi all,

I have a P9, black polymer and factory blackened, diamond coated, stainless steel slide. I also have a HG-575 Ultrasonic Gun Cleaner.
http://www.cleanosonic.com/home-weapons-cleaner.html
I have used the ultrasonic on the Kahr once so far. I was wondering if anyone else has had experience using an ultrasonic cleaner on the Kahr polymer and blackened slide. Are there any who would say not to continue to use it because it will damage the finish?
So far my experience has been that it may have ever so slightly lightened the black finish to a black-grey, but I may be imagining this. I find that if I re-lube the metal and keep it nicely oiled the richer/darker finish is restored.
Lastly, I did have the mishap of the slide falling onto it's side during the cleaning process and the metal basket that it was in did create two very subtle discolorations where the grates of the basket were making contact with the slide. Again, the more oil, the less noticeable. Is there a way to re-darken the black? I have been reading about Wheeler Engineering's Cerama-Coat, which it appears one can apply themselves.
Wheeler Engineering Cerama-Coat 4 oz Aerosol Black - MidwayUSA (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=455475)

Robargun's blackening of stainless process, which I would have to send the gun in to have done.
Robar Black Oxide, e-Nickel & Chrome Sulfide Finishes (http://www.robarguns.com/additional_finishes.htm)

Brownell's GunKote, which is another baked on finish that can be self applied.
BROWNELLS : GUN-KOTE OVEN CURE, GUN FINISH - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1150/Product/GUN_KOTE_trade__OVEN_CURE__GUN_FINISH)

Duracoat, again appears to be a baked on do it yourself solution as well.

One of the major concerns over the baked process and doing it myself, is that I am thinking that I cannot bake the slide @ 350 degrees for and hour with the trijicon sights and the striker housing still in place and I don't think it would be an easy task to remove the sights and have never disassembled/removed a striker housing.

Has anyone had experience with any of these products and would the sights have to be removed and the slide completely broken down to bake the slide?

Thanks for your knowledge and expertise!

Steve

READ ON MY FRIEND:

below is a review of the KAHR DLC process. It is not a cheapo process as u will see either. you get what you pay for...


A couple of years back Kahr decided to discontinue carbon steel guns and manufacture all slides and steel frames from stainless steel. Most consumers liked the corrosion resistance of stainless.
However, Kahr quickly discovered that not all consumers wanted bright and shiny guns. In dim light, the glint of a stainless slide being withdrawn by an undercover operative could lead to fatal complications.
To solve this problem and darken the stainless slide, Kahr flirted briefly with baked-on Teflon used by many manufacturers but found the results less than satisfactory. The economy of the finish was appealing to Kahr, but is soon discovered that the cosmetics were short-lived. Kahr tried another process that required substantial heat. This actually changed the metal's molecular structure and made it more brittle. Finally, Kahr developed its proprietary Tungsten Diamond-Like-Coating (Tungsten DLC), which uses a process called Plasma Assisted Chemical Vapor Deposition to coat the parts.
Tungsten DLC is applied in a vacuum chamber where cathodes transform the tungsten into a gas that plates the parts. The process increases the surface hardness to a whopping 90 on the Rockwell C scale. Just for comparison, your average 1911 frame will register about 28 to 30 on the same scale.
One of the best selling points of the Diamond-Like Coating in that the parts are never heated over 300 degrees Fahrenheit, so there's no need to worry about the parts losing their temper, softening, or becoming brittle. Also, only about two microns of the material is deposited on the slide. In case you're wondering, that amounts to about 80 millionths of an inch-far too little to affect the parts' function or fit.
Kahr's Tungsten DLC thoroughly impresses me. Not only does it perform its intended task of coloring the bright stainless steel to a matte, non-reflective black, it also provides a tough, corrosion-proof covering that is virtually scratch proof. And it will not wear even when subjected to extensive holster carry. For a gun that will be used exclusively for concealed carry, the Tungsten DLC finish makes a lot of sense.

ORSalesRep
03-21-2010, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the educational info Jocko. The process sounds very impressive and certainly reinforces my choice to purchase a Kahr for my main carry weapon.
Is it your position that the Ultrasonic Cleaner had no effect on the DLC and I am imagining it lightening the blackened finish then? As I stated in the OP, it is possible that I am imagining it and that it simply looks lighter because the ultrasonics stripped all of the oil and lubrication from the metal. Like I said, if I keep it oiled up now, it is still a dark black.

jocko
03-21-2010, 01:51 PM
Thanks for the educational info Jocko. The process sounds very impressive and certainly reinforces my choice to purchase a Kahr for my main carry weapon.
Is it your position that the Ultrasonic Cleaner had no effect on the DLC and I am imagining it lightening the blackened finish then? As I stated in the OP, it is possible that I am imagining it and that it simply looks lighter because the ultrasonics stripped all of the oil and lubrication from the metal. Like I said, if I keep it oiled up now, it is still a dark black.

that process. I would think as long as no parts are rubbing against each other, it would not harm in anyway the dlc surface. but that being said just go to NAPA and buy a couple cans of their 3M high pressure non cholorinated brake cleaner , part #08880. It is about $2.50 a can and more pressure than any spray I have ever used. It willnot harm any polymer on ur gun and will spray clean that slide like nothing else also. Wipe down with a silicone cloth and the dlc texture finsih will come right back. Ur not going to harm that finish very easily. It is just that tough. As witht he ultrasoncie cleaner this 3M cleans right down to the metal so lubrication in the areas needed will be a must, but that little sucker will be spiffy clean.

You must have one nice sized ultra sonic cleaner. I really think it would be perfect if used correctly, just for me maybe alittle over kill.:7:
and your right about the looks of the finish, ur cleaner just took all the oils out of the slide. Now just wipe down with a nice silicone cloth, or oil cloth and all colors will come back. If u ever think you have a scratch on that dlc finish, more than likely because of it rockwellhardness it is not a scratch. Just take a pencil eraser and you can rub that mark/scratch right out... I tell u that is just one hell of a tough finish and as u read not a cheap ass spray on process either..

OldLincoln
03-24-2010, 12:21 AM
A couple of years back Kahr decided to discontinue carbon steel guns and manufacture all slides and steel frames from stainless steel. .... For a gun that will be used exclusively for concealed carry, the Tungsten DLC finish makes a lot of sense.I hope you can clear this up for me. Does this apply to a new Kahr purchased today? Before buying, I could not find anything in the Kahr literature on the PM9 mentioning Tungsten DLC. Instead I see "matte blackened stainless steel slide".

It's supposed to be "a whopping 90 on the Rockwell C scale" but mine scratches and discolors. At the hardness you describe, you should be able to kick skid it flat across a rough street without a scratch. Given my experience to date I wouldn't try it.

I'm not negative toward Kahr in general or my PM9 in particular, I just want to know if your information is really current and accurate. We see in their statement they try something then something else. Could they have moved on to a less costly solution like a "matte blackened stainless steel slide"?

jocko
03-24-2010, 05:44 AM
If you have a kahr pM9 it has the DLC coating on it, some years back they made a blued steel version in some of their models, but have since went totally to stainless steel and the stainless steel with the dlc finish. have u tried rubbing a pencil eraser across those scratchs to see if they dissappear. Not sure anyone ever said it won't scratch but I sure don't read of it often and then I would think it really has to meet something hard and sharp to scratch it.

It is not a shinny finish and when I cleaned my DLC slide with a cleaning solvent, it dulled it,as it was taking all the oil out of the surface but a wipe down with a silicone cloth brought it all back for me. I do not think kahr has changed their process of DLC to a lower grade finish. I would not kick it across a rough street to test it out either.

But I will check this out today and get back to the forum. Of allthe kahr forums I have beenon, this DLC finished slide has never been anissue EVER It is far more durable in wear than a standard blued slide, although I would venture to say any finish as what the definition of finish would be, could be damaged...

Please understand to that: That review of kahrs finish that I posted above was not WRITTEN BY ME. I got this by goggling it up and found the process used to do this DLC finish. It is used in the industry to cover knives alot for its extreme durability and corrosion resistance. I am very sure that Kahr Inc. does not do this process either as it is a speciality vendor process... Glock's tennifer finish is almost the same process and it is very durable and very corrosion resisktant indeed.. It is not a porcess of just dipping the metal in a tank of solution and then letting hang to dry.

Jeep 45238 IMO said it well to.

diamonds are tuff, they cut metal, etc, but take a hammer and hit your wifes diamond ring and see what happens to the diamond and also to YOU!!

jeep45238
03-24-2010, 05:49 AM
It's supposed to be "a whopping 90 on the Rockwell C scale" but mine scratches and discolors. At the hardness you describe, you should be able to kick skid it flat across a rough street without a scratch.

Not necessarily. Hard = brittle. Hard is great for sliding wear, but not impacts. It does nothing against abrasives such as aluminum oxide, which will scratch the heck out of hard or soft materials.

jocko
03-24-2010, 01:30 PM
UPDATE; After talking with the kahr people. Indeed all their blackened kahrs are DLC ...No changes at all...

OldLincoln
03-29-2010, 02:26 PM
If you have a kahr pM9 it has the DLC coating on it, some years back they made a blued steel version in some of their models, but have since went totally to stainless steel and the stainless steel with the dlc finish. have u tried rubbing a pencil eraser across those scratchs to see if they dissappear. Not sure anyone ever said it won't scratch but I sure don't read of it often and then I would think it really has to meet something hard and sharp to scratch it.

It is not a shinny finish and when I cleaned my DLC slide with a cleaning solvent, it dulled it,as it was taking all the oil out of the surface but a wipe down with a silicone cloth brought it all back for me. I do not think kahr has changed their process of DLC to a lower grade finish. I would not kick it across a rough street to test it out either.

But I will check this out today and get back to the forum. Of allthe kahr forums I have beenon, this DLC finished slide has never been anissue EVER It is far more durable in wear than a standard blued slide, although I would venture to say any finish as what the definition of finish would be, could be damaged...

Please understand to that: That review of kahrs finish that I posted above was not WRITTEN BY ME. I got this by goggling it up and found the process used to do this DLC finish. It is used in the industry to cover knives alot for its extreme durability and corrosion resistance. I am very sure that Kahr Inc. does not do this process either as it is a speciality vendor process... Glock's tennifer finish is almost the same process and it is very durable and very corrosion resisktant indeed.. It is not a porcess of just dipping the metal in a tank of solution and then letting hang to dry.

Jeep 45238 IMO said it well to.

diamonds are tuff, they cut metal, etc, but take a hammer and hit your wifes diamond ring and see what happens to the diamond and also to YOU!!Eraser doesn't do anything, but no big deal. I have 1 tiny scratch with stainless shinning through, and all along where the flat side meets a grove like indent near the top where it looks like it didn't get the coating. It's not even noticeable looking at it straight on and I only saw it when cleaning as the glint caught in the light.

I'm OK with it and would only send it back if I had the replacement in hand. Now that I carry everyday I don't want to be without. Also, now that I carry everyday, I'm seeing it more as a tool and less like an fine instrument of work of art.

My question to you was to satisfy the lingering doubt I had. I do wish Kahr would make it clearer on the PM9 page - like link to an explanation of the DLC process. Not for me but for new buyers like me.

Mdubtech
05-23-2010, 10:21 PM
So what might it cost to have my pm9's regular ss slide DLC coated?
Would the sights have to be removed for this process?

doubloon
05-23-2010, 10:28 PM
I've had very good luck with a stainless black product from Caswell. I've used it on quite a few stainless pieces so far and it's held up very well.

In fact I just blackened my P380 slide with it and I'm happy with the results. If anyone is interested I'll see about posting a pic.

The blackener can be found here.

Caswell Inc. - Black Oxide Kit (http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm)

Scratches are very easy to touch up with this product, it works similarly to a standard cold blue but on stainless only.