Best NRA can do?

[knkali]

Sad. I expected more from them
http://news.yahoo.com/nra-calls-armed-police-officer-every-school-162851713.html

I hope for our sake that was heavily editied

[jeepster09]

Considering the circumstances of the media they have to work with, I don't think it is a bad response.

[Alfonse]

Sad. I expected more from them
http://news.yahoo.com/nra-calls-armed-police-officer-every-school-162851713.html

I hope for our sake that was heavily editied

That is a ludicrous response. It is a local decision, left to states and local jurisdictions. A good start would be to have a ban of fake (no metal detectors and enforcement) "gun free zones" in public buildings implemented at the state level.

The feds would probably love to create another agency like TSA to do this. Big, expensive, abusive and useless. The answer hardly has to cost anything. A school district in Texas seems to have it figured out.

http://www.kltv.com/story/20387667/texas-school-district-allows-armed-teachers

[aray]

NRA is proposing to bankroll the training for all of this on its own. It won't be big and bad like the TSA. It it will be a state & local jurisdictional decision. It's all voluntary. They are proposing to eliminate fake gun free zones. They called for *armed* response in every single school in America.

Don't listen to the news media's filtered reporting of the event. The full NRA transcript is located here: http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

It isn't a full video of the entire event, but a subset of the announcement can be seen here:

vJrAeNZiRCE

I think it is a great response. We all know that gun bans won't accomplish the goals. The only thing that *will* stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun - available on-site. Unlike everyone else on the national platform, NRA is the only one I've seen actually proposing something that can work to actually stop this from happening again.

Read the full transcript. It's not long, but I think it is very good.

[Barth]

Considering the circumstances of the media they have to work with, I don't think it is a bad response.

I agree.
With the manufactured, media induced, hysteria our nation has been whipped up in.
The NRA is left in a difficult position.
Much like other fake crises, this situation will be painted as dire.
Demanding immediate and extreme action by the administration.
And that's just the way they like it.
That's the plan.
http://www.synapse3di.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Social_Marketing_See_Behind_Curtain_Transparency.j pghttp://imamook.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/ozbama.jpg

[knkali]

NRA is proposing to bankroll the training for all of this on its own. It won't be big and bad like the TSA. It it will be a state & local jurisdictional decision. It's all voluntary. They are proposing to eliminate fake gun free zones. They called for *armed* response in every single school in America.

Don't listen to the news media's filtered reporting of the event. The full NRA transcript is located here: http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

It isn't a full video of the entire event, but a subset of the announcement can be seen here:

vJrAeNZiRCE

I think it is a great response. We all know that gun bans won't accomplish the goals. The only thing that *will* stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun - available on-site. Unlike everyone else on the national platform, NRA is the only one I've seen actually proposing something that can work to actually stop this from happening again.

Read the full transcript. It's not long, but I think it is very good.


Thank you Aray. It is amazing how the presentation was butchered and the flavor of what was said removed. I am proud to say that the NRA did A GREAT JOB. Was the entire proposal ever seen on mainstream TV?

here it is again for those to read. http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf (http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf)

[RRP]

CNN is not mainstream TV?

[aray]

I missed the broadcast myself but from another gun forum understand that Fox & CNN showed most of Wayne Lapierre's comments live.

I hear there were a couple of protesters with signs that "snuck" into the media gallery (gee I wonder how that happened - how did they get media credentials?) and the headlines coming out of MSNBC were: 1) NRA has nothing to offer re: gun control just more guns, and 2) heroic protestors interrupted the start of the NRA talk. In other words typical media spinning.

[kuchman]

You got that Flippin right!!:spider:

[getsome]

With enough chop cut and rearrange of any speach CNN or MSNBC can make Billy Graham sound like Charles Manson...I suppose it's good for them they still have their 1st amendment rights to butcher anything coming from the NRA or a conservative speaker...

[CPO15]

I watched most of it live. Sorry I sent them $50 two days ago. Blaming the media, video games and movies should have been mentioned only in passing. Wayne made it sound like sour grapes AND he sunk to the level of those blaming the NRA (and gun owners) for the recent shooters.

It seems they fashioned this response "in-house"; should've hired a consultant: kinda like the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. I had hoped for better and have lost hope for Wayne's upcoming Sunday Show performances.

[TheTman]

The NRA was in a no-win situation here. I think they did the best they could under the circumstances. People's emotions are still way out of control on this issue.

I am starting to wonder about all these shootings. It sure fits in with the governements agenda to disarm us. Events like Conneticut really stir up the gun grabbers into a frenzy. Even some staunch gun rights advocates, are starting to give in to the hysteria.
It wouldn't take much for some goons to get ahold of a troubled young man like that, and do a little brainwashing, and turn him loose to cause some carnage. I hope to God this isn't the case, but things like the coroner saying all the children died from "assualt weapon" bullets, when the only thing resembling an assualt rifle was in the kid's trunk, and they are said to have found 4 handguns at the scene. And some people reporting a 2nd shooter that seems to have vanished into thin air. WTF is REALLY going on here?
It just makes me wonder about the people that really run the world, and how far they will go to acheive their goal of an unarmed America. When you have the blood of hundreds of thousands, or even millions on your hands, what are a few more innocent lives. I know, conspiracy theory.... but what if it's not a theory? I've been doing a lot of watching videos on youtube, on a wide variety of subjects. Since the middle ages, it's always been the few wealthy families that control the major events of the western world. Today we have Rothchild, DuPont, Rockeller, and a few others that control the vast majority of the world's finances. When you control the finances of a country, you pretty much control the country.
I think if we really knew all there was to know, I think we'd take to the streets en mass and clean up the snake pit that our Capitol has become. Bribery is the only way to get any laws passed, whoever contributes the most to a lawmaker's campaign chest, buys his vote. The letters we write probably have very little effect, compared to the bribery going on. With that, and the insider trading they get away with, is it any wonder, that a congressmen can begin his term with a net worth of a few hundred thousand dollars, and retire a multi-millionaire? They sure aren't getting all that money from the taxpayers. I was watching a Jesse Ventura clip the other night, and he claims, that most corporations spend way more money on bribes, than they pay in taxes. He's been exposed to the workings of government, and I trust the man, he doesn't pull any punches.

Does anyone remember the BBC reporter talking about World Trade Center 7 had fallen, when it was standing there right behind her? What made IT fall, it wasn't hit by a plane. As with the other towers, it looks like a controlled demolition. The wars that followed the "attack" have made billions of dollars for military industrial complex, and those that own them. Eisenhower warned us that the military industrial complex would strive to keep the US embroiled in endless wars, and we have endless wars, from the Cold War, Vietnam, the War on Drugs, the middle east wars. It seems that the US has been at war most of my life. Sorry for the rant and off topic ramblings. I figure I might as well say this stuff now, while I still have the right to say it.

[Bawanna]

You have to remember the NRA has to lower itself to their level so they have any chance at all to understand what is being said.

It really doesn't matter because as always only what the media (them) wants to portray will be shown. Anything they don't agree with will be left on the cutting room floor.

I think we need to take the battle to the personal level too. While it's like banging your head against the wall we need to try and educate the uneducated as much as we can. If they won't join us in common sense at least maybe they will understand us a little bit.

[aray]

Here is the full video available on CSPAN:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/AssociationP

It shows the protesters too.

[jeepster09]

I watched most of it live. Sorry I sent them $50 two days ago. Blaming the media, video games and movies should have been mentioned only in passing. Wayne made it sound like sour grapes AND he sunk to the level of those blaming the NRA (and gun owners) for the recent shooters.

It seems they fashioned this response "in-house"; should've hired a consultant: kinda like the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. I had hoped for better and have lost hope for Wayne's upcoming Sunday Show performances.


I would also blame the media, viloent video games, vilolent killer tv shows and movies. Wake up and smell the coffee, years of our kids being fed this garbage will take a toll. Check out this "sweet little game" that is available for all to play. http://www.livegamez.com/play-1045-Kindergarten-Killer.html

We are living in messed up times, were no one is at fault.:eek:

[knkali]

CNN is not mainstream TV?

I was asking for the complete narrative on TV.
see post #14

[knkali]

Here is the full video available on CSPAN:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/AssociationP

It shows the protesters too.

Thank you Aray. Unfortunately most stations chopped it up. The protestor was a huge distraction. La Pierre struggled after his rythm was broken by that, but all in all he did well. A tough job but he did it and frankly, earned his keep which I was starting to question before these recent events

[jeepster09]

Read below to remember why we can't give up on our country and freedom:


A little history most people will never know.

Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last casualties.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth , Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

8,283 were just 19 years old.

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.
12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam ..

1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam ..

31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia . I wonder why so many from one school.

8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall.

Beallsville , Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.

The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.

The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.

For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters. There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.

[Longitude Zero]

Unfortunately the NRA is/was in a very difficult spot. Wayne came off sounding strong but not arrogant/condescending.

[CrabbyAzz]

When he blamed video games and movies he started to look like a baffoon to me.

[knkali]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16069016-disbelief-in-some-quarters-after-nra-calls-for-armed-guards-at-every-school-blames-movies?lite

well, I must be insane because this article basically said you must be if you thought that the NRA's position has any sensibility behind it. The idea of more guns and guards in schools is unthinkable. I really have to think about this. Am I that out of touch with reality? Has Kahrtalk helped me metamorphose into a monster? I guess the anti NRA logic could be...where does it stop? Guards at places of worship? Guards at supermarkets? Guards at schools? Is it that society has not come to grips with the fact that it has really come to that/this? Did La pierre says something that was stupid or so brutally truthful that the truth hurt so bad people reacted by saying it is ridiculous?

[knkali]

When he blamed video games and movies he started to look like a baffoon to me.


I am not attacking you CrabbyAzz, but I would like for you to explain to me why you feel that way. I must be missing something. Help me understand. What should La Pierre have done. Again, I am asking for your explanation because I want to know what I truly dont know.

[CPO15]

Here's my point on Wayne blaming the media, movies and video games:

Tens of thousands of Americans

- play violent video games

- watch violent movies and TV shows

- watch violent NFL games and other sports

Yet, very few of those Americans commit violence. Why are American gun owners being vilified when it can also be demonstrated that few(er) of us are likely to commit violence. Wayne erred in attributing violence to inanimate objects like games, media and news accounts. He made the same emotional, irrational mistake as our critics.

I don't think he sounded strong. I heard petulant and arrogant. But he did make the point, in no uncertain terms, that gun laws will not protect us or our children.

I'm glad that Fox News, at least, is playing "the only thing tat stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" line.

Rant Off.

[knkali]

Here's my point on Wayne blaming the media, movies and video games:

Tens of thousands of Americans

- play violent video games

- watch violent movies and TV shows

- watch violent NFL games and other sports

Yet, very few of those Americans commit violence. Why are American gun owners being vilified when it can also be demonstrated that few(er) of us are likely to commit violence. Wayne erred in attributing violence to inanimate objects like games, media and news accounts. He made the same emotional, irrational mistake as our critics.

I don't think he sounded strong. I heard petulant and arrogant. But he did make the point, in no uncertain terms, that gun laws will not protect us or our children.

I'm glad that Fox News, at least, is playing "the only thing tat stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" line.

Rant Off.

Thank you for your input. What should have been said instead? What should have been the bullet(sic) points of that presentation?

[CPO15]

^ those are the points I wished Wayne had made.

[JFootin]

I wish he had talked about what is being discussed in many states; allowing teachers who volunteer and train to carry concealed at work, and for goodness sake take those stupid and useless "Gun Free Zone" signs down. He could have cited how successful Israel has been at protecting their school children since teachers and parents have armed themselves.

[muggsy]

When he blamed video games and movies he started to look like a baffoon to me.

Funny, but I get the same impression every time I read one of your posts. Feel free to ban me Bawanna.

[muggsy]

I watched most of it live. Sorry I sent them $50 two days ago. Blaming the media, video games and movies should have been mentioned only in passing. Wayne made it sound like sour grapes AND he sunk to the level of those blaming the NRA (and gun owners) for the recent shooters.

It seems they fashioned this response "in-house"; should've hired a consultant: kinda like the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. I had hoped for better and have lost hope for Wayne's upcoming Sunday Show performances.

I'll happily refund your fifty bucks, CPO15. And when they come for your guns you can go to the ACLU for assistance. Some people don't know who their friends are.

[les strat]

When he blamed video games and movies he started to look like a baffoon to me.

I blame liberals for all of this. They're the true baffoons.

[Alfonse]

NRA is proposing to bankroll the training for all of this on its own. It won't be big and bad like the TSA. It it will be a state & local jurisdictional decision. It's all voluntary. They are proposing to eliminate fake gun free zones. They called for *armed* response in every single school in America.

Don't listen to the news media's filtered reporting of the event. The full NRA transcript is located here: http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

It isn't a full video of the entire event, but a subset of the announcement can be seen here:

vJrAeNZiRCE

I think it is a great response. We all know that gun bans won't accomplish the goals. The only thing that *will* stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun - available on-site. Unlike everyone else on the national platform, NRA is the only one I've seen actually proposing something that can work to actually stop this from happening again.

Read the full transcript. It's not long, but I think it is very good.

Thanks, it is better not filtered.

[CrabbyAzz]

I am not attacking you CrabbyAzz, but I would like for you to explain to me why you feel that way. I must be missing something. Help me understand. What should La Pierre have done. Again, I am asking for your explanation because I want to know what I truly dont know.

He should have just offered the free training for those school districts who may be interested. In short don't talk about things he knows nothing about. Video games.. give me a break!!

[CrabbyAzz]

Funny, but I get the same impression every time I read one of your posts. Feel free to ban me Bawanna.

That's OK, since I feel the same about a lot of your post.

[CPO15]

Muggy; send me the $50, I'll forward it to the Second Amendment Foundation.

[knkali]

He should have just offered the free training for those school districts who may be interested. In short don't talk about things he knows nothing about. Video games.. give me a break!!

would you agree that it is quite provocative for 10 to 13 and 14 yo kids playing games that graphically depict and score the slaughter of human beings and perhaps this could have a modicum of desensitization of killing upon young minds playing them?

[Bawanna]

We have a local gang, actually I think they are a lot of other places too whose trade mark is to carry a hatchet everywhere they go.
They get this from someplace?

[Geobob]

I agree it was a good response from the NRA. I also regretfully agree that the media will crucify them for it. Hopefully people will be able to hear/see/read the entire speach. The county sheriff here offers free training and free CCL for any teacher who want to participate in their schools. I say God bless 'em!

[chrish]

would you agree that it is quite provocative for 10 to 13 and 14 yo kids playing games that graphically depict and score the slaughter of human beings and perhaps this could have a modicum of desensitization of killing upon young minds playing them?

I don't care what ANYBODY says, this is a fact as far as I'm concerned. I've seen too many kids in the circles I run in that do not have access to gaming consoles, violent TV and movies, etc. They have parents that do not allow unfettered access to news, violent images on TV, etc. Those kids (that I personally know) have a strong aversion to seeing things like that. I've seen them turn their heads away or cringe from commercials on TV advertising the latest violent garbage, sometimes just the news TALKING about something bad that happened. They have an entirely different outlook on life, a high level of respect for adults and even other kids/children around them.

No way, no how, that movies, games, news, etc doesn't desensitize kids (and people) to the point that something could easily be amiss in how they behave or react to the world around them.

Is that an excuse. Nope. Am I saying that every kid that has access to this garbage will go nuts. Nope. Some people can deal with it, some might not. We don't begin to know how the human mind works, but we are all too willing to pump that mind full of medication, concoct conditions and fake diseases to explain away behavior, then give a total and complete pass to the information and images that are pumped into that same brain over years and decades.

Then the best some can come up with is to blame an inanimate object (or access to that object) that sits on the table and has no particular appearance of good or evil.

Yea, whatever.

[CrabbyAzz]

would you agree that it is quite provocative for 10 to 13 and 14 yo kids playing games that graphically depict and score the slaughter of human beings and perhaps this could have a modicum of desensitization of killing upon young minds playing them?

No! When I was a kid we played war outside, now it's played on a computer. Some of us grew up with the three stooges, but we don't go around poking each others eyes out.

[CrabbyAzz]

I don't care what ANYBODY says, this is a fact as far as I'm concerned. I've seen too many kids in the circles I run in that do not have access to gaming consoles, violent TV and movies, etc. They have parents that do not allow unfettered access to news, violent images on TV, etc. Those kids (that I personally know) have a strong aversion to seeing things like that. I've seen them turn their heads away or cringe from commercials on TV advertising the latest violent garbage, sometimes just the news TALKING about something bad that happened. They have an entirely different outlook on life, a high level of respect for adults and even other kids/children around them.

No way, no how, that movies, games, news, etc doesn't desensitize kids (and people) to the point that something could easily be amiss in how they behave or react to the world around them.

Is that an excuse. Nope. Am I saying that every kid that has access to this garbage will go nuts. Nope. Some people can deal with it, some might not. We don't begin to know how the human mind works, but we are all too willing to pump that mind full of medication, concoct conditions and fake diseases to explain away behavior, then give a total and complete pass to the information and images that are pumped into that same brain over years and decades.

Then the best some can come up with is to blame an inanimate object (or access to that object) that sits on the table and has no particular appearance of good or evil.

Yea, whatever.

It's wrong to teach kids live their lives like an ostrich, sticking their head in a hole every time their afraid of something. And what does this theory say about vets, who have experienced some horrible carnage. Should we look at them with a jaundiced eye as potential mass murderers?

We were always exposed to violence. When I was in grade school, in the 60's, the school was always showing video's of war time executions. And they were not the sanitized version on TV today. The one I remember the most is Hitler folks hanging people from meat hooks.

Remember that scene from 2001 Space Odyssey where the chimps are throwing sticks at the monolith, thats what old folks look like when they start blaming video games. Just like the 50's when they were burning records by Elvis....

[RRP]

The effects of violent video games on youth has been a topic of much research (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+violent+video+games&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=PI_VUOSTIrO10AHQwYHwCw&ved=0CDcQgQMwAA). The scientific/medical community is split on the issue. There are studies, which conclude there is no effect. Other studies conclude video games are a causal link to increased aggression.

Google the work of Anderson. Then Google the work of Fergusson. You'll see vastly differing conclusions.

Whatever one's position on this topic, it's easy to find studies to support it.

[CrabbyAzz]

The effects of violent video games on youth has been a topic of much research (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+violent+video+games&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=PI_VUOSTIrO10AHQwYHwCw&ved=0CDcQgQMwAA). The scientific/medical community is split on the issue. There are studies, which conclude there is no effect. Other studies conclude video games are a causal link to increased aggression.

Google the work of Anderson. Then Google the work of Fergusson. You'll see vastly differing conclusions.

Whatever one's position on this topic, it's easy to find studies to support it.

"Casual link" - Well that's pretty definitive..... There's probably a casual link between football and aggression.

[muggsy]

"Casual link" - Well that's pretty definitive..... There's probably a casual link between football and aggression.

There is a causal link between aggression and football. The incidence of domestic violence increases after a football game. Riots break out in cities that win Super Bowls. Fights break out in the stands at football games. The excessive consumption of alcohol fuels the violence. I say ban football games, not guns.

[muggsy]

No! When I was a kid we played war outside, now it's played on a computer. Some of us grew up with the three stooges, but we don't go around poking each others eyes out.

But then you aren't mentally defective. Wait a minute, let me reconsider that point. :)

[muggsy]

Muggy; send me the $50, I'll forward it to the Second Amendment Foundation.

Are you aware that Alan Gottlieb, one of the heads of the head of the Second Amendment foundation is a convicted felon who was found guilty and served time for income tax evasion in 1984?

[chrish]

No! When I was a kid we played war outside, now it's played on a computer. Some of us grew up with the three stooges, but we don't go around poking each others eyes out.

I did too, but there is a difference, whether you like and admit it or not, between playing war, saying bang, and you all fall down and watching violence portrayed as in Pulp Fiction, Call of Duty, etc. I'm just talking about how ones sees violence and the level at which each new generation marginalizes it.

[chrish]

It's wrong to teach kids live their lives like an ostrich, sticking their head in a hole every time their afraid of something. And what does this theory say about vets, who have experienced some horrible carnage. Should we look at them with a jaundiced eye as potential mass murderers?

We were always exposed to violence. When I was in grade school, in the 60's, the school was always showing video's of war time executions. And they were not the sanitized version on TV today. The one I remember the most is Hitler folks hanging people from meat hooks.

Remember that scene from 2001 Space Odyssey where the chimps are throwing sticks at the monolith, thats what old folks look like when they start blaming video games. Just like the 50's when they were burning records by Elvis....

Not at all suggesting that those parents are raising their kids in a bubble w/ their heads in the sand. But would you drop your kid down in front of Django Unchained this Christmas? Would you buy them a violent video game? I wouldn't. The type of kids I'm referring to are fully aware of things like September 11th, The Holocaust, war, death, and the implications of events like those. They are just not pumped full of awful garbage that obviously has no benefit whatsoever other than to marginalize violence and make it not-so-real or even FUN. They are fully aware of what REAL violence is and how awful it is.

Your examples are exactly what I'm talking about. REAL violence, shown to anyone, teaches what it's really about, why it's evil or necessary as the case may be. Big difference between that, and a video game that makes the implication that violence is 'fun'. Big difference between that and violence portrayed in movies. Old cowboy movies, people got shot, died, etc. w/o being blown apart.

I think that's the difference between us as kids, playing war outside (or watching the stooges) and today's kids and parental oversight. Nobody is really considering the DIFFERENCE in what kids are seeing and consuming today and what they consumed 30+ years ago, 60+ years ago. Nor are they teaching their children about the REAL world and how it is...as you described things that you saw and were taught in school. Images of Sept 11th are gone from educational institutions today, yet those same kids go home and fill up on unreal, 'fun' violence.

Again, please don't take this as me blaming the video game. In each and every case, these people are WAY OFF beyond what a video game or anything else can produce. I'm sick of every blame angle people are trying.

I'm not suggesting blame the video game, I'm suggesting raising our children differently.

[downtownv]

The position that the NRA took is absurd most taxpayers are up to their A$$ in school taxes, adding police or any armed security costs big money! It's not just during the school day hours but through out the after school activities as well. Front sight sent my daughter an open invitation for free firearm training (She's a Teacher) and would love to do it but.... the suggestion to her Principal is in itself a risky maneuver! I think a trained armed member (s) CC is the best way to go, as they are on location during the majority of the time.
Nothing will stop the knee jerk reaction that's going down, we can only hope it dies down, The Libby media is sure to make that not happen, though

[les strat]

How about this. Cut out a good bit of the worthless administrative jobs in the school system that suck up the $ between the taxpayers and the classroom. Use that money to fund this. Armed guards or not, there is a lot of desk jobs wasting the money before it ever sees a school.

I'm all about the right for teachers to carry, but expecting them to have the ability to be able to pull off a special ops mission and save hundreds of kids is a little much.

We have armed guards protecting our money in the bank, our federal buildings, and wait for it.... politicians! Shouldn't our kiddos be orders of magnitude more important?

[les strat]

"Casual link" - Well that's pretty definitive..... There's probably a casual link between football and aggression.

There is also a not-so-causal link between liberals and weapon bans.

I am suprised you have the stones to even post on a gun forum after publically supporting the ones who are behind all of this n@zi legislation that's coming our way :rolleyes:

[yqtszhj]

"Casual link" - Well that's pretty definitive..... There's probably a casual link between football and aggression.

Let the home team lose a bowl game and watch what happens. Or let's use for example the national championships.

There are multiple examples of individual or even mob mentality when a team even wins or loses a big game. And the blue states have more than one example of this happening. No different than the british after their "football" games. Stuff happens.

I think we should ban all spectator sports to prevent occasional riots after the games because all people aren't responsible and can't control themselves. Everyone needs to be restricted since the sick/evil few can't be trusted at these games. It only makes sense, right? :rolleyes:

[yqtszhj]

How about this. Cut out a good bit of the worthless administrative jobs in the school system that suck up the $ between the taxpayers and the classroom. Use that money to fund this. Armed guards or not, there is a lot of desk jobs wasting the money before it ever sees a school.

I'm all about the right for teachers to carry, but expecting them to have the ability to be able to pull off a special ops mission and save hundreds of kids is a little much.

We have armed guards protecting our money in the bank, our federal buildings, and wait for it.... politicians! Shouldn't our kiddos be orders of magnitude more important?

Good point. There are a lot of people that are just seat warmers at my kids school. Let a trained armed security guard sit in that seat and sign in "visitors". They may catch the dangerous ones.

[knkali]

How about this. Cut out a good bit of the worthless administrative jobs in the school system that suck up the $ between the taxpayers and the classroom. Use that money to fund this. Armed guards or not, there is a lot of desk jobs wasting the money before it ever sees a school.

I'm all about the right for teachers to carry, but expecting them to have the ability to be able to pull off a special ops mission and save hundreds of kids is a little much.

We have armed guards protecting our money in the bank, our federal buildings, and wait for it.... politicians! Shouldn't our kiddos be orders of magnitude more important?

Les, how about we cut the U.S Dept of Education? That dept does nothing despite its good intentions. The funding of that dept and the salary of approx 5000 jobs should fund some if not most of the security needed.

[Bawanna]

I can't see security guards at school without more government to control it and waste more money we don't have.

I truly think just doing away with the Gun Free Zone signs would be a huge deterrent all by itself.

These horrible events just don't happen every day and while nothing is more important than the kids I think we're throwing too much into it.

I'd like to see them somehow start teaching real stuff again, real history and not the watered down liberal stuff they are subjecting them too.

I'm getting more and more paranoid of big brother, actually I always have been, nothing new really, nothing different, just even more blatant now probably due to the head dudes ignorance and ego.

[chrish]

Les, how about we cut the U.S Dept of Education? That dept does nothing despite its good intentions. The funding of that dept and the salary of approx 5000 jobs should fund some if not most of the security needed.

+ a gazillion

actually, we'd be better off even if we just did away w/ the dept of eduction and just burned that money to stay warm or wiped our collective ***es with it. it would be putting it to better use. easily the most worthless government agency in the history of the world.

[knkali]

I can't see security guards at school without more government to control it and waste more money we don't have.

I truly think just doing away with the Gun Free Zone signs would be a huge deterrent all by itself.

These horrible events just don't happen every day and while nothing is more important than the kids I think we're throwing too much into it.

I'd like to see them somehow start teaching real stuff again, real history and not the watered down liberal stuff they are subjecting them too.

I'm getting more and more paranoid of big brother, actually I always have been, nothing new really, nothing different, just even more blatant now probably due to the head dudes ignorance and ego.

Understood, how about volunteers? That wouldnt cost a dime?

[jocko]

Understood, how about volunteers? That wouldnt cost a dime?

these schools would incur much more liability over that, probalby far more than a hired security guard etc. It would bring crack pots out of the ground to walk aorund a school with a firearm. I would be against that. But states can let the districts decide, no goverment intervetion needed. If a school chooses to have security and can aford it, then they should do it. we probably have that option now just never realy pushed hard enough.

Killers really don't look at gun signs saying yea or nay, IMO. When ur excape plan is a bullet from ur own gun in ur head then signs means nadda. If they decide to kill a bunch of people, they have no number in mind when they do it, just shoot until the cows come home and when the law comes u end the fight yourself.

What happened was a tradegy, but IMO I also think the schools have dropped the ball to on protecting our kids. So many signals in the past have been sent to them and again most did nuttin and what most did certainly did't work with this nut case. I think teachers should be able to protect thermselves also. How that goes about is again a school district thing. but they can certaily confer with the many gun training companies to get expert advice etc, as most every school would be different. Some school are over 50 years old and securty for them would be alot different than a new shcool built 5 years ago or one in the plans.

I have never watched a video game where it is all about violence but when u can get a video like that and up pops your choice of weapons and by name even, then the seed is planted. Some take it as a game, most would, some carry it further and get more and more into those games and then along comes the nut case. and that is now when a good school security system comes into play.

No one is gonna listen tot he NRA today, so why should have the NRA showed any more of their hand than at this time necessary. Lets see what this political thing plays out and I think then they will go to work on combating some of the regulations. I do think they will express a statement that high capacity mags are not the issue, but I feel this will be a political statement, as they know full and well we are gonna get the high capacity mags shoved downour throats..They will state some stances alsxo to appease ur NRA members, fully knowing that some thigs they say re gonna go unheard.

I try not to criticise the NRA when I realy don't know what their plans are down the road. If u think u can do a better job with anuttef gun organization, GO FOR IT. I will take success where ever I can get it.. We are IMO 6 months before any real thing happens, there is time, but I don't expect the NRA to succedd 100% either. The news media is gonna viifly the NRA and any organizaion,, motel, business that supports them. That is the destructive part of the news media. A month after these young children are put to rest, the general public will be back to business as usual and hopefully cooler heads "might" prevail..

[Bawanna]

I like the volunteers idea but there are logistics to be considered there too. How do you control it without someone creating something to qualify them.
I consider everyone who enters a school a volunteer.

We had a long family discussion at the dinner table last night regarding this. My oldest son's biggest concern was taking out the bad guy and worrying about a second bad guy and then getting shot himself by the police.

Could easily happen. He asked if I would search for a second bad guy if I encountered a first. Told him it would depend on the situation. I probably would. If I hear him shooting he needs to be dealt with.

A hearing person would have a huge advantage as they could be talking to dispatch on their phone while searching. If you rely on someone else to call it can get really messed up and you could be identified as the guy with the gun, lost in translation.

It's a complicated deal with cures that need to be well thought out so we no nothing good will come of it under the current regime.

[manalive]

It was a very WISE way to respond. TReading the transcript is a much better way to absorb the statement. I encourage everyone to print it out and circulate it among family and friends. Let's see how this whole national "conversation" plays out. I commend whoever at eh NRA wrote the statement.

[manalive]

It was a very WISE way to respond. Reading the transcript is a much better way to absorb the statement. I encourage everyone to print it out and circulate it among family and friends. Let's see how this whole national "conversation" plays out. I commend whoever at eh NRA wrote the statement.

[Armybrat]

No! When I was a kid we played war outside, now it's played on a computer. Some of us grew up with the three stooges, but we don't go around poking each others eyes out.

I did too, with a Belgian FN BAR just like this one:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/fn/fn%20bar%20chilien-01.JPG

[CrabbyAzz]

Seems some conservative papers weren't liking the NRA response...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/22/new-york-post-_n_2352203.html?utm_hp_ref=maghreb&utm_source=pulse&utm_medium=direct

And Rupert Murdoch carries a real big boom stick in the conservative media.

Time for fresh new leadership at the NRA.

[Armybrat]

Seems some conservative papers weren't liking the NRA response...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/22/new-york-post-_n_2352203.html?utm_hp_ref=maghreb&utm_source=pulse&utm_medium=direct

And Rupert Murdoch carries a real big boom stick in the conservative media.

Time for fresh new leadership at the NRA.

Dig up Neal Knox.

[jocko]

u need to get a life crabby ass. U should put ur name in the hat. they need guys like you. U always seem to have an answer for everything, which I stand corrected but 90% of this forum seems to disagree with you. Ur alwaqys lookig for a down side article, which today is easy to find.. which to me makesu a bottom feeder. no more no less...

Crabby asses buddy Murdock's quote; Terrible news today," he tweeted. "When will politicians find courage to ban automatic weapons? As in Oz after similar tragedy. Excuse me for being ignorant but did that twitt just say AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, and then we want to follow that pr!ck over the cliff BECAUSE he is Rufus (what a fokking name) Murdock

[knkali]

La Pierre's office sent me a form letter after that asking what I thought about his speech. I thought I had to give my 2 cents. I wrote that the American people are not ready to hear how bad our society has degraded and the thought of armed officers in schools is off putting despite some inner city schools already have them and metal detectors for many many years. Instead, I would think his/our best efforts would be to debate the Oz ban model which many seem to think that this is the road the U.S should go down.
An aside--I heard a disc jockey on satellite radio talk negatively about his comments. I wish I wasnt in a hurry to get which channel and who it was so I could write a letter to XM radio about how I pay for music and not a Dj's opinions. I can get that for free.

Last poll was 73% of the U.S want either a complete ban of civilian gun ownership or some form of increased restriction. That is alarmingly high.

[jocko]

take that same poll in PA. or Indiana,or Whoming or Texas and the results willbe totlly opposite. take that poll in Sanfrancisco and I wouldnot be surprised to see it 100% for confiscation. course ur surveying 75% queers and the utter 25% are just not eld enough yet. Just sayin.

[JFootin]

The only really sensible plan is to do as the Israelis: train and arm teachers on a voluntary basis and get rid of the "Gun Free Zone" signs. The NRA said they will provide the training for free.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/74071_447693185292546_1997712710_n.jpg

[CrabbyAzz]

u need to get a life crabby ass. U should put ur name in the hat. they need guys like you. U always seem to have an answer for everything, which I stand corrected but 90% of this forum seems to disagree with you. Ur alwaqys lookig for a down side article, which today is easy to find.. which to me makesu a bottom feeder. no more no less...

Crabby asses buddy Murdock's quote; Terrible news today," he tweeted. "When will politicians find courage to ban automatic weapons? As in Oz after similar tragedy. Excuse me for being ignorant but did that twitt just say AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, and then we want to follow that pr!ck over the cliff BECAUSE he is Rufus (what a fokking name) Murdock

It's Rupert Murdoch. He and the Koch brothers are the fathers of the Tea party. He also owns Fox news which is the mouth price of the republican party.

I'm just trying to open the door and let you see what's going on in the world. Sometimes people on these forums live in an echo chamber.

[jeepster09]

Talk about banning....in
Connecticut assault rifles are now illegal according to one report I read.....didn't help so much there.

[chrish]

u need to get a life crabby ass. U should put ur name in the hat. they need guys like you. U always seem to have an answer for everything, which I stand corrected but 90% of this forum seems to disagree with you. Ur alwaqys lookig for a down side article, which today is easy to find.. which to me makesu a bottom feeder. no more no less...

Crabby asses buddy Murdock's quote; Terrible news today," he tweeted. "When will politicians find courage to ban automatic weapons? As in Oz after similar tragedy. Excuse me for being ignorant but did that twitt just say AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, and then we want to follow that pr!ck over the cliff BECAUSE he is Rufus (what a fokking name) Murdock

I personally don't really believe Crabby is a gun owner or even a blue dog democrat. He started here and pretty much just posts when he wants to get a rise out of somebody. He's just liberal talking point after liberal talking point, trying to accuse gun owners here of being in the tank for the GOP, Fox, the NRA, whatever the liberals are mad at on any given day all the time sounding like he just stepped off the DNC convention stage.

He's just here to push buttons. Not contribute to a gun discussion in any meaningful way.

[jocko]

It's Rupert Murdoch. He and the Koch brothers are the fathers of the Tea party. He also owns Fox news which is the mouth price of the republican party.

I'm just trying to open the door and let you see what's going on in the world. Sometimes people on these forums live in an echo chamber.

what is going on in he world crabby ass, for me anyhow I don't need u telling me.

I could care less of what he owns, . he wants to ban automatic guns to. Duh, doesthat tell you anything about his knowledge of fireamrs...

ur a very lucky member IMO,

[jocko]

I personally don't really believe Crabby is a gun owner or even a blue dog democrat. He started here and pretty much just posts when he wants to get a rise out of somebody. He's just liberal talking point after liberal talking point, trying to accuse gun owners here of being in the tank for the GOP, Fox, the NRA, whatever the liberals are mad at on any given day all the time sounding like he just stepped off the DNC convention stage.

He's just here to push buttons. Not contribute to a gun discussion in any meaningful way.

do u realy think that. u mean ol crabby ass could be what many call a troll. Naw thatis an insult to theword troll even. Sooner tha later our powers to be will also realize what ur saying to and he will go the way Bullen bm did a few weeks back. I keep hoping someday he will post something constructive, but my hope has went unanswered. Side with the troll if u feel good about it. I personally think he ias a danger to this forum, but I guess I am a mininority in that opinion to. but time will tell. ... I'm patient:popcorn::popcorn:

[jeepster09]

Talk about banning....in
Connecticut assault rifles are now illegal according to one report I read.....didn't help so much there.


They are banned in conn. here is the law:


http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202c.htm

[Bawanna]

Mr. CrabbyAzz has left the building for good. I held off long as I could stand hoping that he would improve but I gave up hope quite awhile back.

I hate to brag but he's my first ban which I hope reflects how flexible and probably too easy going I usually am.

Anyone know where I can get one of those stamps to keep track maybe on the back rest of my chair, you know like the fighter pilots.

Merry Christmas.

[jeepster09]

do u realy think that. u mean ol crabby ass could be what many call a troll. Naw thatis an insult to theword troll even. Sooner tha later our powers to be will also realize what ur saying to and he will go the way Bullen bm did a few weeks back. I keep hoping someday he will post something constructive, but my hope has went unanswered. Side with the troll if u feel good about it. I personally think he ias a danger to this forum, but I guess I am a mininority in that opinion to. but time will tell. ... I'm patient:popcorn::popcorn:


Well here ya go....

[jocko]

Listen up great one, if u get a horse head delievered, refuse it.I will pay return postage even.

and a Merry Christmas to you to. I think we are still allowed to say Christmas yet

[downtownv]

They are banned in conn. here is the law:


http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202c.htm

So are drugs like, Coke, heroine, meth etc. who's that working out?:rolleyes:

Pass all the Laws you want... Criminals don't care about your laws!

[downtownv]

;)Crabby will be back be vigilant, see something.... Say Something!

[Tinman507]

Sir,

You showed a lot more restraint than any reasonable person should be expected to show. Sometimes no matter what we hope will be is not what actually happens. I know that wasn't an easy decision to make.

I know you try to be as fair as you can and I applaud you for that. Know that no one thinks any less of you for making the adjustment you made, when in fact the majority of us would have done it far sooner.

In spite of the facts that confront us, some people need to be confronted the with reality that they just don't fit in. Rest easy that you made a correct decision.

I admire you a lot for your even handed and fair temperament.

[muggsy]

Damn Bawanna I don't think that you should have banned Crabbyazz just for expressing an opposing view. I kinda enjoyed sticking it to him. I think he'll be missed, not.

[chrish]

;)Crabby will be back be vigilant, see something.... Say Something!

downtownv, That's hysterical!

Jocko, troll? ya think? :)

Bawanna. Good call IMO. Had I personally been in charge, I would have had to abstained b/c I was one of the culprits giving him a voice (probably should ban me too). But I couldn't help myself, I live to aggravate sometimes and I always enjoy a good debate. But I know how difficult those decisions are. I was one of 2 guys that started a huge Sony Vaio forum back in the 90s and we had to do this regularly, it was always a hard decision. Let people troll and attack the majority of the rest of the members regularly in the name of free expression...or not. We typically chose not...

Civil debate is one thing, attacking positions some of us hold by describing us as the apes throwing sticks at the monolith in 2001 deserves a strong response me thinks.

[gm412]

I have been saying crabby was not a un owner for a long time. Stoped reading his post long ago. Glad he is gone.

[Bawanna]

I love a good joust now and then and we certainly entertain opposing views but when one persons opinion 99% of the time is against the main stream time and time again it gets really really old.

This forum is my oasis. I got lots of good friends here I never met, and usually political crap withstanding we chat about things I love the most in life.

So when a person becomes a burr under my saddle, sometimes we have to just do it because we can. With or without a flagrant violation of the set rules.

I don't feel bad and almost feel like he was testing to see how long it would take. In hind sight it took way too long.

I feel good, where's the scotch.

[RRP]

Trolls can easily be silenced, simply by ignoring them.

[muggsy]

What did you say, RRP? I thought I heard something. :)

[RRP]

What did you say, RRP? I thought I heard something. :)

Now you're sounding like my wife, Muggsy. She only hears what she wants to hear, but that's probably universal to all marriages.

Have a very merry Christmas!

[muggsy]

Now you're sounding like my wife, Muggsy. She only hears what she wants to hear, but that's probably universal to all marriages.

Have a very merry Christmas!

My wife hasn't spoken to me in years. Silence is truly golden. :)

[jocko]

Ignoring is ok but hi post still reamins and I think that is no good.They normaly dig their own holes on this forum, as this forum is compassinate. I know Bawanna would not ban Pelosie or Harry Reed for he is a just and kind man. I am told Bawana has secretaly offered Pelosie a set of custom grips for his Kimber Pro (she carrys). Now that isjust the kind of guy the colonel is.

[JustinN]

I know Bawanna would not ban Pelosie or Harry Reed for he is a just and kind man. I am told Bawana has secretaly offered Pelosie a set of custom grips for his Kimber Pro (she carrys). Now that isjust the kind of guy the colonel is.

Now that he has finally spilled some blood with his Ban Hammer, you might want to tread softly...Now that he realizes its not nearly as painful as he feared he may take a swing at people a little easier now...and those couple sentences...that's just asking for a couple days...:D

[tv_racin_fan]

Talk about banning....in
Connecticut assault rifles are now illegal according to one report I read.....didn't help so much there.

The weapon used was not in fact an assault weapon. CT has an assault weapon ban that is more strict than the national assault weapon ban was and this rifle from my understanding was legally purchased in CT. The liberal media will of course paint this weapon as an assault weapon and I pretty much gurantee you they will not explain that that weapon was in point of fact NOT an assault weapon by national or MASS or CT definition. Of course to the liberal media any AR was and is an assault weapon.