Whats better for home defense?

[cmichael22]

Is a grain like 135 or 165 better than like 185 for home defense so it doesn't penetrate through walls and stuff?

[chrish]

Any handgun round (other than some of the frangible stuff) will penetrate a wall in your home. Some will stay on their original path, some might fly off in another direction, but all of them will punch thru like hot butter.

[cmichael22]

So everone of them will go through the intruder and through the wall too?

[muggsy]

No, they will go through the wall, but they won't go through an intruder with a center mass hit. Some FMJ may pass through the intruder, but a center hit with a hollow point should stay within the body cavity. In the home I feel that you are much better off using a shotgun with bird shot. If you have kids train them to hit the floor behind their beds if things get loud at night.

[chrish]

sorry, I may have misunderstood the question. if you are talking about AFTER you've hit your target, then all other things being equal (manufacturer, load, bullet design, etc), then yes, I suppose you are correct. the lighter bullet is going to stop first typically. but as muggsy said, if you hit your target, and you are using a JHP defense type round, it's gonna stop in the intruder. there are exceptions to every scenario though.

that being said, there are plenty of non-equal comparisons where this would not apply. for example, I just asked some questions about the 9mm 135gr Critical Duty (not Critical Defense) in another thread and I've been looking at the various test of that round, and I'd say that it penetrates and stops in _about_ the same depths and situations as the Winchester PDX1 147gr 9mm...give or take.

Probably best to look at some real tests of the rounds you are considering and make your best educated guess. Anything other than the el-cheapo JHP rounds you get at Walmart (like WWB, etc) are going to perform relatively well and as many will say, shot placement and being well practiced with your sidearm is far and away a better method for preventing over-penetration (or missing your target all-together).

[Longitude Zero]

An SBR shotgun is fantastic in home defense.

[ESAFO]

if you hit the intruder your going to have to repaint the walls anyways, so as long as you stop the intruder even if you miss with a shot it would be worth fixing the wall.
if you use a shot gun with bird shot like most of us do, your gaurenteed to get good at repairing the holes in the wall. :mad:

[chrish]

if you hit the intruder your going to have to repaint the walls anyways, so as long as you stop the intruder even if you miss with a shot it would be worth fixing the wall.
if you use a shot gun with bird shot like most of us do, your gaurenteed to get good at repairing the holes in the wall. :mad:

The hole in the wall is the least of my concerns. A missed shot with a handgun round, any handgun round other than frangible, could leave your house and enter your neighbors house where another human being is sleeping. That's the over-penetration concern and the reason to be considering a shotgun or even an AR for home defense over a handgun.

Handguns are for carrying. Shotguns and rifles are for fighting.

[ESAFO]

The hole in the wall is the least of my concerns. A missed shot with a handgun round, any handgun round other than frangible, could leave your house and enter your neighbors house where another human being is sleeping. That's the over-penetration concern and the reason to be considering a shotgun or even an AR for home defense over a handgun.

Handguns are for carrying. Shotguns and rifles are for fighting.
your more worried about a hand gun penetrating your neighbors house than a AR :confused:

[chrish]

your more worried about a hand gun penetrating your neighbors house than a AR :confused:

Actually yes, handgun rounds don't tumble. .223/5.56 will tumble. If you look at tests, AR round will not penetrate stuff like drywall layers as much as a handgun round. Neither are good, I'll grant you that. But even a shotgun if you are using a defensive round like a slug, or one of the .38/9mm 3-ball deals w/ a slug behind it are gonna penetrate too. Only thing that won't punch thru layers of drywall are things that I don't trust to stop an attack.

My point is that it doesn't much matter. The best choices to stop an attack are also going to have over-penetration issues with things like drywall, siding, etc...yes, including an AR, just not as much as a pistol round.

[Rubb]

Whats better for home defense?

The one that’s reliable and most accurate in your gun ;)

[muggsy]

Actually yes, handgun rounds don't tumble. .223/5.56 will tumble. If you look at tests, AR round will not penetrate stuff like drywall layers as much as a handgun round. Neither are good, I'll grant you that. But even a shotgun if you are using a defensive round like a slug, or one of the .38/9mm 3-ball deals w/ a slug behind it are gonna penetrate too. Only thing that won't punch thru layers of drywall are things that I don't trust to stop an attack.

My point is that it doesn't much matter. The best choices to stop an attack are also going to have over-penetration issues with things like drywall, siding, etc...yes, including an AR, just not as much as a pistol round.

I've seen AR rounds completely destroy concrete cinder blocks. You might want to rethink that statement. All projectiles will tumble and yaw to some extent as the lose velocity.

[Longitude Zero]

Handguns are for carrying. Shotguns and rifles are for fighting.

I was always taught that a handgun is only there so you can fight your way back to the rifle you should never have laid down in the first place.

[les strat]

The only thing I can think of when a shotgun would be the wrong choice is in a hostage-type situation. Otherwise, I am all about the shotgun over a pistol.

Have both at the ready if you can.

[chrish]

I've seen AR rounds completely destroy concrete cinder blocks. You might want to rethink that statement. All projectiles will tumble and yaw to some extent as the lose velocity.

Not my data, I'm just sharing what's out there. I've never put an AR round thru my house or a cinder block. There are more 'tests' for whatever they are worth that show between the longer bullet design tumbling and the light weight running down range with tons of energy behind it, they tend to come apart too, frangible or not.

And maybe 'tumble' is a bad choice of words here, let's call it less stable once it hits that first barrier.

Empirical evidence from one guy to the next will always make this debatable I suppose.

Just sayin'...

[Barth]

Is a grain like 135 or 165 better than like 185 for home defense so it doesn't penetrate through walls and stuff?

I'm not a big fan of frangible ammo.
But in a thin walled condo, or whatever, something like a Glaser Safety Slug may be worth consideration.

I believe initially United States Federal Air Marshals were using them.
Although I think they have since switched to standard JHP ammo.

Penetration is a result of bullet weight, velocity and design.
Just looking at one aspect is misleading.

As an example;
125 gr 357 Sig is known for outstanding light barrier penetration.
Recommend you look at actual FBI Protocol penetration results to compare specific loads.

A shotgun, with the right ammo, makes for a very effective low penetration home defense weapon.

[Brian Edwards]

When speaking of home defense, a nice OTM bullet in .223Rem or 5.56x45 will always be superior to a handgun round. A lightweight (77grs or less) bullet traveling at a high velocity (2,600 fps or more) simply makes for a better round. It will have rifle type terminal effect (wounding) but because of the fragile construction of an OTM, the lightweight, and high velocity it will indeed tear its self apart in sheetrock and the like.

Note the trend in LE, especially SWAT/ERT/SERT/ESU types, have virtually all gone to weapons that fire the .223Rem or 5.56x45. In the world of liability, they have found they get excellent terminal performance with a much reduced over penetration risk. Here in Dallas, TX, only rarely does DPD Tactical ever break out an MP5, if ever, and shotguns are for breaching only. Everything else is done with Colt ARs. That same reasoning is easily translated to a homeowner that is defending his our her home.

As with any firearm; training from a known entity is crucial.