PM45 First range trip, not good

[mikemcg9mm]

Just recently purchased a new Kahr PM45. Got out to the range Saturday. Heres the report:

I bought 300 rounds of Blazer Brass 230 grain fmj's and 50 Remington 230 grain JHP's and went to the range for the 200 round break in and to test the JHP's for reliablility.

The first 250 fmj's shot great, no problems, functioned great. Then the problems started. While shooting the last 50 fmj's and the 50 jhp's the slide started locking back with rounds in the mag, it would do this three to four times per mag, it did it with both mags, it did this for the entire last 100 rounds. Also during the last 100 rounds the magazines started popping out on there own during firing, this happed a total of four times and happend with both mags.

I sent Kahr an email this afternoon, I will keep you all posted on what happens.

[jocko]

Just recently purchased a new Kahr PM45. Got out to the range Saturday. Heres the report:

I bought 300 rounds of Blazer Brass 230 grain fmj's and 50 Remington 230 grain JHP's and went to the range for the 200 round break in and to test the JHP's for reliablility.

The first 250 fmj's shot great, no problems, functioned great. Then the problems started. While shooting the last 50 fmj's and the 50 jhp's the slide started locking back with rounds in the mag, it would do this three to four times per mag, it did it with both mags, it did this for the entire last 100 rounds. Also during the last 100 rounds the magazines started popping out on there own during firing, this happed a total of four times and happend with both mags.

I sent Kahr an email this afternoon, I will keep you all posted on what happens.

ur that ur thumb is not accidently hitting the slide lock lever. This can happen and u don't even know u are doing it. Change your grip to test out.

Another thing that can cause this is the slide lock hitting the top rounds in the magazine. Easy way to check that out is to take the slide off and put the slide stop back in the frame. Now load up witgh those HP rounds that was causing the issue and reinsert the magazine. Look to the left where the follower picks up the slide lock lever. If those rounds are hitting that slide lock lever and starting to lift that lever up, that is a no no and u have an out of spec slide lock lever. Call kahr if so and they will send you a new one.

That is the only two things that will cause that slide to lock open prematurely.

As far as the magazine popping out, just sit there for a few minutes ane insert and reinsert that magazine time and time again. There is a burr there that just is keeping the mag release from locking up correctly. I do think it willsove itself. But if you have to call kahr ask them to send u a new mag release also. It takes about 5 minutes to install the mag release.

\If u shoot all 250 rounds with no issues and then started to get issues in the last 100 rounds and if this was all in one session, my SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) is that your thumb is hitting the slide lock lever and causing it.(u might have been getting tired and maybe alittle sloppy with ur grip)..

Try it with ur left hand to see if this continues or definitely change your thumb position to retest. Locked wrist and good grip and I don't think this gun needs to go back at all.

PM sent also. good luck, don't panic, these guys here can helpyou alot. You might want to go to the kahr tech section and read the PROPER PREPPING OF YOUR NEW KAHR.

[Bawanna]

Agreed and compounding the issues as mentioned before you had to be getting tired at that point. Perhaps a little sloppy, inattentive. If I experience issues especially after alot of rounds I try to pass the gun off to somebody else and see if they have the same issues. I had a Glock here one time, one officer could not shoot a full mag without a slide lock, nobody else could cause the malfunction. He was hitting the slide lock with his grip. It happens. Hope this one straightens out and runs for ya without delay.

[10Kahrs]

If that does not work try calling kahr and ask them for a new mag release thingy or just go online to kahr's website and get one if you have a new old stock PM45 the mag release had a smaller lip which was hyper sensitive while shooting/gripping I found after I swapped mine out the problem went away it's easy to install even a cave man can do it ! I use to have pics comparing the new vs old mag release and you could see the difference

[Bawanna]

Can do what?

[jocko]

If that does not work try calling kahr and ask them for a new mag release thingy or just go online to kahr's website and get one if you have a new old stock PM45 the mag release had a smaller lip which was hyper sensitive while shooting/gripping I found after I swapped mine out the problem went away it's easy to install even a cave man can do it ! I use to have pics comparing the new vs old mag release and you could see the difference

but all the PM45 kahrs came witht he steel mag release, not the polymer mag release with that inserted steel lip in it...

[mikemcg9mm]

Sean at Kahr emailed me today and they are going to send me a new mag catch/release. They want me to shoot another 50 rounds and see if the slide still locks back, their gunsmith wants to make sure I was not tired and limp wristing. Sounds reasonable to me. I will take it out to the range later in the week and see what happens.

Mike.

[Bawanna]

The gunsmith was thinking like Bawanna. (tired) I'm thinking a gold star might be in order or at least a chicken feather for me hat?
The great part is that if he's correct you don't have to send er back. Put the new mag release is and should be good to go. We'll cross our fingers anyhow.

[jocko]

You may be wrong Jocko. I bought my PM45 when they 1st came out. I am pretty sure that it was a plastic mag release on mine. But, it was replaced by Kahr on the 1st trip back to them with a metal one. I was not having an issue with that in particular. They just changed it out anyway. Probably just a heads up thing on their part.

be the first time I was wrong and probably not the last. I just thought I read that somewhere or was told that by a kahr insider,..might just be ol age to, thinkin u thought something when indeed u never thought anything:der:

Indeed check your thumb position out......

[jocko]

Sean at Kahr emailed me today and they are going to send me a new mag catch/release. They want me to shoot another 50 rounds and see if the slide still locks back, their gunsmith wants to make sure I was not tired and limp wristing. Sounds reasonable to me. I will take it out to the range later in the week and see what happens.

Mike.

has nothing, nadda, zero, to do with the slide locking back prematurely. nadda, zero, nothing... tired and limp wristing can indeed casue fts's and fte.s but if the slide is actually locking back with the slide lock then it can't be tired or limping.

Now if u are getting jams or stuff like that and u are calling it "slide locking" back, then indeed limping and tired shooter can cause it. But I am under the impression u were stating that the slide was locking back, via the slide stop lever. Am I wrong in assuming that??

Indeed check your thumb position out. If the rounds inside are not hitting the slide lock lever, then IMO it ur thumb engaging it and u don't even know it is happening. this is not uncommon on kahrs with such a big slide stop lever..

[jocko]

Sean at Kahr emailed me today and they are going to send me a new mag catch/release. They want me to shoot another 50 rounds and see if the slide still locks back, their gunsmith wants to make sure I was not tired and limp wristing. Sounds reasonable to me. I will take it out to the range later in the week and see what happens.

Mike.

I must be getting old. BAWANNA, help me out here. explain to me how in the hell being tired or limp wristing can cause the slide on a PM45 to lock open.

when the only thing that makes that slide lock open is the follower in the magazine on the last round actually pushing up on the slide lock lever. I am at a loss here to read of some of the statements that are coming out of kahr.

[Bawanna]

has nothing, nadda, zero, to do with the slide locking back prematurely. nadda, zero, nothing... tired and limp wristing can indeed casue fts's and fte.s but if the slide is actually locking back with the slide lock then it can't be tired or limping.

Now if u are getting jams or stuff like that and u are calling it "slide locking" back, then indeed limping and tired shooter can cause it. But I am under the impression u were stating that the slide was locking back, via the slide stop lever. Am I wrong in assuming that??

Indeed check your thumb position out. If the rounds inside are not hitting the slide lock lever, then IMO it ur thumb engaging it and u don't even know it is happening. this is not uncommon on kahrs with such a big slide stop lever..

My thought on the tired thing was getting sloppy on the grip and perhaps not keeping the thumb in a proper area away from that slide lock lever. If as someone else mentioned it happens to have a weak spring anyhow it wouldn't take much to bump it up. As I recall Wyn was saying he hit his several times inadvertantly (that means he didn't want to for you fellers that don't get the big words, ok I had to look it up). Anyhow we're looking forward to hearing how this thing works next time out.

[wyntrout]

I would think fatigue and maybe the gun was getting a bit dirty. My first trip to the range with the PM45, I had a lot of problems chambering the first round, but I finally got going and slowly shot 240+ with about 40 Rem. GS230-gr. After Kahr fixed the feed problem, I shot about 150 230-gr the last trip to the range, but I was taking my time and patching holes and fiddling with the camera. My last 50 were Wolf FMJ and I didn't even stop to patch any holes... just shot them all and got the heck out of there. That crap should only be shot outside... lots of smoke and what a stink! I think that I still have about 300 rounds of that steel-cased 230-gr FMJ. The Blazer 230-gr FMJ was fine. I think that I've shot about 300 rounds of that by now, out of 500. It's fine for targets and relatively clean shooting ammo. I did range reports with pictures under the PM section.
Wynn

[Bawanna]

A mermaid? Hmm Weedhopper what does this mean in the over all picture of life. We shall contemplate this.

[10Kahrs]

Not sure if the PM45 ever had a poly mag release but when i swapped out my old metal mag release for a new one I could see the lip or shoulder was slightly larger ended all my problems relating to droping mags ftf etc the part is $15

[wyntrout]

Sure, a mermaid... Florida and all. Nobody mentioned the last two avatars <sniff>.:p
I was looking among my images and pictures and saw that one. I figured I would get you to say something....:D
I still have to figure out how to take a picture of the 230-grain Golden Saber sitting in the barrel of my PM45 with enough light to see that, but not white out the DLC finish. Taking pictures with the part you want in focus is tricky. As you start to press the "shutter release", the electronic auto-focus thingie usually grabs the closer part and then you have to move in a bit without re-ranging or auto-focusing again. Mine shows little green windows around the points that are being focused on and if there are more that one (sometimes three or four), I guess it takes an average.
Anyhow, trying to move in without refocusing, and adjusting the light as you go, and aligning the barrel, etc., it's tough to get all that like you want. Having another pair of hands and eyes could help.
Wynn:D

[Bawanna]

I figured I would get you to say something....:D

Yeah, pretty hard to get me to say something, pretty tight lipped and all.

Your too dang far away or I'd come loan ya some third hands. Your about as far away as you can get and still be on american soil.

[getsome]

Wyn, Wyn, that sounded like a gun shot!!!! Oh my God Wyn how did you shoot a hole in the new camera???????:eek:

[Bawanna]

Wyn, Wyn, that sounded like a gun shot!!!! Oh my God Wyn how did you shoot a hole in the new camera???????:eek:

Good one! Hope he had his head off to the side focusing. We'd sure miss him and his parade of ever changing avatars. I still like the shooter girl best!:cheer2:

[wyntrout]

Well, it seemed like I got the most interest out of my "gun barrel" photography, but no one commented on the last one -- the updated "big brother" pix. I'll have to look around and see if I can find some more interesting avatar candidates! Let's see... Bawanna' likes sexy pictures...:cheer2: and something to do with guns....:cheer2:
Wynn:D

[jocko]

bawanna, very sick man, very!!!

[Bawanna]

Well, it seemed like I got the most interest out of my "gun barrel" photography, but no one commented on the last one -- the updated "big brother" pix. I'll have to look around and see if I can find some more interesting avatar candidates! Let's see... Bawanna' likes sexy pictures...:cheer2: and something to do with guns....:cheer2:
Wynn:D

So now your gonna label me a pervert and a deviant, after your self proclaiming that you go to the mall to look at scantily clad young girls?
I kind of resemble that some.

Where was that pic taken anyhow, I'd like a dozen 8x10's and a few wallet size.

I must have missed the updated big brother pix, last I recall was the bomb.

Definitely sick, very sick.

[wyntrout]

I'll post some pix and an article about one of the "unsung" heroes... or heroines of the Iraqi War. Her Wart Hog was shot up over Baghdad and I don't think anyone had ever advocated staying with one that had lost its hydraulics... let alone a woman -- very hard to control to a landing without the hydraulic assist. She did have a big incentive not to bailout over Arab-held territory, though!:eek::eek::eek:
Anyhow, she did a heck of a job!:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
I couldn't get the link right. Text:
Posted on Wed, Apr. 09, 2003 story:PUB_DESC
Pilot survives dramatic landing
PLANE TAKES HEAVY FIRE, LIMPS TO SAFETY
By Crystal Carreon
Mercury News
Air Force Capt. Kim Campbell assigned to the 23rd Fighter Group was flying over Baghdad in her A-10 Warthog fighter jet when it was hit by enemy ground fire.
More photos (SPECIAL TO THE MERCURY NEWS)
Air Force Capt. Kim Campbell assigned to the 23rd Fighter Group was flying over Baghdad in her A-10 Warthog fighter jet when it was hit by enemy ground fire.

Large chunks of her plane shot away, the hydraulic control system dead, Air Force Capt. Kim Campbell pushed and pulled at a backup set of manual controls, struggling to keep the anti-tank aircraft from crashing as it limped away from an ambush over Baghdad.

Landing finally in the safety of a coalition air base in southern Iraq on Monday, Campbell was greeted with applause, relief and awe. Maintenance personnel gawked, took photos, and clapped ``Capt. K.C.'' on the shoulder.

But stateside, her father, San Jose Councilman Chuck Reed, was moved to tears.

``I cried,'' Reed said Tuesday. ``It's been a roller-coaster day. Most days, pride wins; some of the time, fear wins. Today, the pride is still winning.''

Campbell, who called her father shortly after her return to the air base, also told him in a later e-mail that ``It's been a rough few days for the A-10,'' and referred him to a Web site with photos of the damaged jet.

``I had no idea that her aircraft was shot at so badly,'' Reed said. ``There are hundreds of bullet holes.''

Campbell, who is assigned to the 23rd Fighter Group from Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina, was flying over Baghdad in her A-10 ``Warthog'' on Monday when she received a call for assistance from troops on the ground. On her way back after the mission, Campbell told an Air Force reporter, she felt an abrupt jolt as something struck her aircraft. Warning lights started to flash on her cockpit panels.

``The plane rolled left and pointed at the ground, which is not a comforting feeling over Baghdad,'' Campbell told the Air Force Times. ``The jet wasn't responding to any of my control inputs.''

The A-10's hydraulic systems were damaged, disabling the flight controls, landing gear and brakes among other critical systems, including part of the plane's stabilizer.

But the manual flight controls continued to work.

For one tense hour, crew members at the air base and other A-10 pilots anxiously awaited Campbell's return. Emerging from the murky morning skies, Campbell landed her battle-scarred A-10 nearly perfectly, the Air Force Times reported.

The A-10, which flies lower than other warplanes to support ground troops, is armed with a seven-barrel Gatling gun and Maverick anti-tank missiles. Campbell had assured her father in a recent e-mail that her Warthog is ``a durable and reliable plane.''

``That is a classic understatement,'' Reed said, noting the damage to her plane seen in a photo on a Web site for A-10 pilots.

The images show dramatic damage to the jet's rear, which was bullet-riddled and pocked by Iraqi fire.

Reed received a phone call from his daughter at 1:30 a.m. Monday, shortly after she had returned from her mission.

``She was OK and wanted to let us know that before we started to see stuff on the news,'' Reed said. ``She couldn't tell us what had happened or where she had been. But she said she was ready to go back.''

Tuesday evening, Reed checked his home e-mail to see if there were any messages from his 27-year-old daughter. He checks for her messages every day. In her message Tuesday, Campbell wrote: ``It's been a rough few days for the A-10, but we're here doing our job of helping our guys on the ground when they need it most. . . . I have to say that I'm very thankful to be flying the `Hawg.' ''

Campbell, a 1993 graduate of Piedmont Hills High School in East San Jose, was deployed to Kuwait about a month ago, her father said. At the start of the war, she flew at least two missions a day over Iraq.

According to the Pentagon, there were 114 active-duty female fighter and bomber pilots in the U.S. military in 2001, and 7,735 male fighter and bomber pilots. Women have been permitted to fly combat aircraft in the U.S. military since 1993.

Last year, Campbell flew 20 combat missions in Afghanistan and had experienced enemy fire while patrolling Iraq's ``no-fly zone.''

``I think the A-10s are getting shot at on every mission,'' Reed said. ``I hope she's not in Baghdad every day.

``But that's her job, and she'll do it. As long as those guys are on the ground, she'll go.''

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Oh, sh!t! I forgot the relevant gun! The "girl" and the gun.:cheer2:
Wynn

Dang! I inteded to post this under General Discussion... I didn't want to get too far off topic... whatever that was... OOOPS!

[Bawanna]

Oh, sh!t! I forgot the relevant gun! The "girl" and the gun.:cheer2:
Wynn

Dang! I inteded to post this under General Discussion... I didn't want to get too far off topic... whatever that was... OOOPS!

Good stuff. Definitely unsung no doubt.

[wyntrout]

I've been cooking and doing other things, but I had intended to put those post under General Discussion... really!:D
Dang roasted chicken isn't done yet!
Wynn:D

I added the text from that article to the first post... couldn't get the link correct.

[mikemcg9mm]

I took the PM45 out yesterday and shot 50 more rounds of 230 fmj. The gun was cleaned and lubed, I was not tired and I made sure my thumb was not making contact with the slide stop. The slide continues to lock back with rounds still in the mag. It happened 8 times during the 50 rounds, it happened again with both mags. I checked to see if the rounds were contacting the slide stop, that was a negative. The only thing I can figure is that the slide stop spring "the spring attached to the frame" that keeps the slide stop tensioned down is to week and letting it jump up on recoil. I have requested a return authorization, on their dime, so we will see what happens. I will keep you all posted.

Mike.

[Bawanna]

I took the PM45 out yesterday and shot 50 more rounds of 230 fmj. The gun was cleaned and lubed, I was not tired and I made sure my thumb was not making contact with the slide stop. The slide continues to lock back with rounds still in the mag. It happened 8 times during the 50 rounds, it happened again with both mags. I checked to see if the rounds were contacting the slide stop, that was a negative. The only thing I can figure is that the slide stop spring "the spring attached to the frame" that keeps the slide stop tensioned down is to week and letting it jump up on recoil. I have requested a return authorization, on their dime, so we will see what happens. I will keep you all posted.

Mike.

Sorry to hear this report. I'm counting on Jocko to jump in and see this and tell us about tweaking that spring again. I know he talked of it recently, I'll try to go find it. Could very well be a weak spring but I know he's mentioned that tweaking trick several times.
Hopefully you'll have this thing on track quick like.

[kramm]

The slide on my pm45 would lock open too. I got to looking at it and found some polymer flash next to the release spring and removed that ,never happened again. Looked like it wasn't going in far enough to let the spring seat. http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon3.gif

[mikemcg9mm]

Well I figured out why the slide was locking back. I checked the slide stop spring and found that it moved up and down, I checked it against a PM9 and that spring was tight in place. I found a T6 driver and sure enough the screw that holds the slide stop spring in place was loose. I tightened it up and went to the range. 100 rounds, no slide lock back "except on empty". So now once I get the new mag catch I should be good to go. :D So if you start having the slide locking back with rounds in the mag, check the spring for tightness. Thanks.

Mike.

[at_liberty]

After having that screw come loose on my T40 and prevent the slide from locking on empty, a different symptom, I bought some Loctite at a gunshop yesterday. I have not had a single problem since snugging up that screw but wanted to make sure it would stay tight until someone wants it to come out. The product is Uncle Mike's Gun-Tite.