PM9 or PM40?

[Trunkmonkey]

Hello, new guy here, and I have a question: I'm in the market for a new pistol, always a good thing, and I want something small. I have been debating between a PM9 or PM40 both about the same size but I'm concerned about the recoil of the .40 cal in such a small package. Any help/advice would be very much appreciated. I am very new to the compact pistol "world".

[Raoul]

Start here.

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1449-who-else-here-has-pm9-pm40-anyone-shot-them-back-back.html

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1346-pm40-pm9.html

[jkalantzis]

I just went through this today, I walked away with a PM9. I guess when in doubt buy both. But if you're like me get the 9, it's a great staple for your collection. I have heard the recoil is not that much fun with the 40.

[Trunkmonkey]

LOL, wish I could buy 3 or 4....on that note....I will check that link, thanks so far.

[Raoul]

I just went through this today, I walked away with a PM9. I guess when in doubt buy both. But if you're like me get the 9, it's a great staple for your collection. I have heard the recoil is not that much fun with the 40.

It's no big deal. It's not like the PM's are target pistols.

[jeepster09]

I prefer the 9 in small package. Can you say RECOIL.....ouch...:2eek: I feel the 45 would even be better than a 40.

[Bawanna]

I prefer the 9 in small package. Can you say RECOIL.....ouch...:2eek: I feel the 45 would even be better than a 40.

Big +1 here. 9 first, 45, second, 40, don't go there.
I have a K40, I can't imagine the same gun even smaller with a tupperware frame. To repeat above RECOIL!

Heard the PM45 is not so bad but so far only a rumor I haven't shot one.

Be safe, go with the 9.

[wyntrout]

The PM9 is nice but the PM45 is great... after the obligatory tweaking... as necessary. If you can handle +P in the PM9, you can handle standard rounds in the PM45. I haven't really heard anything good about the .40... if you want a .4 something... get the big boy!
Wynn:D

[Bawanna]

The PM9 is nice but the PM45 is great... after the obligatory tweaking... as necessary. If you can handle +P in the PM9, you can handle standard rounds in the PM45. I haven't really heard anything good about the .40... if you want a .4 something... get the big boy!
Wynn:D

That would normally be my answer, wider is better but I'm getting negative vibes on the PM big boys. I know they work, several here have made them work but I'm feeling issues. I know your happy with yours after the trip back to the mother ship but I don't want to steer trunkmonkey down a potholed road and think mean angry thoughts everytime he hears our name.
I thought you were taking the missus out for dinner. She stand you up on your 24th anniversary.

[Trunkmonkey]

Actually my standard carry is a .45ACP - G21SF - but I wanted another pistol for a B.U.G. that I can just keep in a cargo pocket or an ankle holster. But, I want the same pistol for off duty CC. I thought PM45 may be too big for pocket, but I'm not "against it", I haven't seen one to compare it to the PM9.

[Raoul]

I have the PM40. I shoot the PM40. It's no big deal. It's easier to shoot than the LCP.

[Bawanna]

Actually my standard carry is a .45ACP - G21SF - but I wanted another pistol for a B.U.G. that I can just keep in a cargo pocket or an ankle holster. But, I want the same pistol for off duty CC. I thought PM45 may be too big but I'm not "against it", I haven't seen one to compare it to the PM9.

Warning- personal opinion forthcoming.
If I had to buy a gun tomorrow to meet your criteria. (wow, we can treat this like an afternoon fantasy) A bug to run with your 21SF (I have one by the by), and we don't have time to play games, and not take any chances I'd buy a Glock 36. Mine got, the Kahr gods are not smiling on me. Most of the officers I work with went with 30's so they could interchange 21SF mags. I would opt for the single stack, flatter 36.
But wait--- I'd stay with us here at Kahrtalk and harass people and pick on Mr. Wyn and some of the others and see how the PM big boy is fairing down the road. When it gets shipped out running out of the box or at least after the requisite 200 round breakin that 36 will make good trading stock. Dang the sky just got really black over my house, the Kahr gods are definitely not happy with bawanna.
SO, try this.......get the PM9 and do the same thing. Give it to your favorite girl when you get the PM big boy, send it to me when you don't need it, we'll make it work.
This personal opionion officially ended. Good luck, keep us posted. Some of the alphabetically challenged here really like pictures so be thinking on that as well. Ok bye.

[Trunkmonkey]

Warning- personal opinion forthcoming.
If I had to buy a gun tomorrow to meet your criteria. (wow, we can treat this like an afternoon fantasy) A bug to run with your 21SF (I have one by the by), and we don't have time to play games, and not take any chances I'd buy a Glock 36. Mine got, the Kahr gods are not smiling on me. Most of the officers I work with went with 30's so they could interchange 21SF mags. I would opt for the single stack, flatter 36.
But wait--- I'd stay with us here at Kahrtalk and harass people and pick on Mr. Wyn and some of the others and see how the PM big boy is fairing down the road. When it gets shipped out running out of the box or at least after the requisite 200 round breakin that 36 will make good trading stock. Dang the sky just got really black over my house, the Kahr gods are definitely not happy with bawanna.
SO, try this.......get the PM9 and do the same thing. Give it to your favorite girl when you get the PM big boy, send it to me when you don't need it, we'll make it work.
This personal opionion officially ended. Good luck, keep us posted. Some of the alphabetically challenged here really like pictures so be thinking on that as well. Ok bye.

I did consider the G36 - I know lightning is going to strike me now but here goes: "I love my Glocks" and "I love .45s", But I was actually looking for something smaller and lighter. I sort of "stumbled upon the Kahrs while looking at LCPs - because several guys I work with are carrying them as back ups. I'm not a fan of .380s or 9mm. But......several well placed 9mms beat a miss or a malfunction with a .45 any day.

[Bawanna]

I did consider the G36 - I know lightning is going to strike me now but here goes: "I love my Glocks" and "I love .45s", But I was actually looking for something smaller and lighter. I sort of "stumbled upon the Kahrs while looking at LCPs - because several guys I work with are carrying them as back ups. I'm not a fan of .380s or 9mm. But......several well placed 9mms beat a miss or a malfunction with a .45 any day.

Words to live by. Smaller lighter at this time = PM9. I don't put the LCP and the PM in the same comparison group for whatever tiny bit thats worth.

[Bawanna]

Also worth noting there are lots and lots of 380 and 9mm fans here, try not to piss em off. It's too late for me but maybe you can save yourself.

[Trunkmonkey]

Words to live by. Smaller lighter at this time = PM9. I don't put the LCP and the PM in the same comparison group for whatever tiny bit thats worth.

Not to bash LCPs but I was not overly impressed. I don't mind paying for quality, something thing I always say to the guys at work: "Would you bet your life on that P.O.S., or would you rather spend the money on something that works, all the time, every time."

[Trunkmonkey]

Also worth noting there are lots and lots of 380 and 9mm fans here, try not to piss em off. It's too late for me but maybe you can save yourself.

Whoops!! I guess I'll be in the hurt locker with you then! LMAO!!:banplease:

[recoilguy]

Not to bash LCPs but I was not overly impressed. I don't mind paying for quality, something thing I always say to the guys at work: "Would you bet your life on that P.O.S., or would you rather spend the money on something that works, all the time, every time."

I am not a LCP fan but I have at least 6 buddies that use them. I would never call their gun a POS and I have yet to see one of them fail. I would bet my life on their guns in their hands. If I need someone to have my back, I'd want them there. What current criteria or experiance would lead you to consider the LCP a POS?

RCG

[10Kahrs]

If you want the 40 think about the MK40 soaks up recoil better

[Trunkmonkey]

I am not a LCP fan but I have at least 6 buddies that use them. I would never call their gun a POS and I have yet to see one of them fail. I would bet my life on their guns in their hands. If I need someone to have my back, I'd want them there. What current criteria or experiance would lead you to consider the LCP a POS?

RCG

Wasn't general speaking of the LCPs as a POS, I was making a general statement regarding everything....Sorry guess I was too vague....most often I see POS in weapon lights on patrol rifles.......but that is off topic.

[10Kahrs]

How could you refuse this beauty!

[Trunkmonkey]

How could you refuse this beauty!

That sure is Purdy!!!;)

[Bawanna]

Not to bash LCPs but I was not overly impressed. I don't mind paying for quality, something thing I always say to the guys at work: "Would you bet your life on that P.O.S., or would you rather spend the money on something that works, all the time, every time."

Recoilguy, for what it's worth I read this as a general statement, not specifically aimed at the LCP at all. I use the same line on all kinds of gear that cops use. Some refuse to spend money, many want something for nothing and expect top quality, last forever performance. We all know it ain't gonna happen.
In my very limited experience with the LCP the only thing I really hated was the lousey trigger pull, heard many others say the same and reports are that it doesn't get better with time.
I never met a gun I couldn't live with, most I really can't live without, not much use for 380's but thats must me, I'm not a natural good shot and I prefer wider bullets. 45's if at all possible.
Trunkmonkey, walk softly for awhile, your on report.

[wyntrout]

Hi, Bawanna. Yeah, we went out to eat at Longhorns and got home safely and watched a little TV. That new garlic filet thingie was great! I like garlic on almost anything. I went with medium rare this time, though. The rare last time was really rare. They are pretty accurate at this place with their cooking... unless you get the seven-pepper steak by accident, as I did one time. AFTER I ate the thing... I thought I had ordered the wrong thing and usually put jalapenos on a taco salad along with hot sauce pushing the envelope. I expect my nose to running, sweat to be running down my face... my scalp, etc. But, I don't expect that with what I thought would be a 9 ounce filet with blue cheese on top. I figured something must be wrong after the second or third bite, when I started running into peppercorns... WT*! After I eaten the whole thing, the waitress asked me about it and I said that I must have ordered the wrong thing. She checked with the cook and he had gotten the menu mixed up or something after coming off vacation. I got the meal for free. I have returned a few steaks... when I ordered rare and got well done. I mean gray through and through! Not there, though.

Well, we had a good meal and I'm just getting back to the computer for a bit. I wanted to add my opinion, if I didn't do it already on this thread.** Actually, I see that I did say something earlier.** I have the PM9 and the PM45. I shoot the .45 better and loaded, it only weighs a little over 4 ounces more than the PM9 loaded. It fits the same Minituck holster and I'm thinking now, if I can carry the PM9, I can carry the PM45 which I shoot better, and it hits harder. I carry a six-shot spare mag on my belt on in my pocket in a modified TK kydex holder. Those make great adjustable holders for the pocket without the clips.
I need to shoot them both some more and try better trigger control with the PM9 in particular. The PM9 is a tiny bit short on grip, but the PM45 is perfect with the regular 5-shot magazine. I put bike tubes on both of them and it really helps the grips, without detracting from the aesthetics of the guns. JMHO.:D
The MK40 weighs 25 ounces with one mag and no bullets. The PM45 weighs 23.4 ounces with 5+1 rounds. the MK40 with 5+1 weighs about 29 ounces which is about 1/3 less ounce than my K9 with 7+1 loaded. I don't have .40 cal ammo to weigh, so they might even be closer in weight.
For me, the .45 is a better deal, because I don't want another caliber anyhow, and from all I've heard, the .40 kicks harder than the .45. I don't know about that. But for four ounces difference, I'm going to carry the .45 a lot more. If I ever get my P380N, I might carry it more in the summer, because that puppy will only weigh 14 ounces with 6+1 BB +P loaded... If that BB tests favorably. I dress pretty lightly down here for most of the year -- just T-shirts and Polos with shorts. I did stock up on non-shrinking loose shirts and shorts with belt loops for the guns heavier than that .22 TPH.
Anyhow, just another opinion.
As for the PM45, I'll admit I was miffed that it wasn't 100% out of the box, but Kahr had it picked up and fixed it, so I'm happy. I've wanted one of the Kahr .45s since way before they started making them, and I have the smallest, most compact and best shooting CCW .45 available... IMHO.
Wynn:D:53:
PIX of both in the PM9 CB Minituck:

[jbaker]

id go pm45 i guess im lucky i got mine used it was made in 08 and ive NEVER had a prob with it. recoil is no big deal i dont really know what to compare it too, MABYE like a glock 27 just not as snappy if u get what im trying to say, probly not:)

[Trunkmonkey]

Now....you have me rethinking.

Also...off topic... how do I get the picture next to my screen name? I loaded one and it shows in my profile, but not on my posts?

[Bawanna]

Now....you have me rethinking.

Also...off topic... how do I get the picture next to my screen name? I loaded one and it shows in my profile, but not on my posts?

Did it pop up a message about being to big? That's where I get stuck. If my picture doesn't happen to be small enough, I don't know how to fix it. I think Mr. GB???? can't never remember his numbers is the avatar wizard. (Greg). Mr Wyn is also up on pictures and such.
Hey guys, a little help for the Trunkmonkey PLEASE? You know we love pictures.

[Trunkmonkey]

Just tried changing the pixels lets try this a few times....bear with me!:confused:

Nope that didn't work

[Bawanna]

Just tried changing the pixels lets try this a few times....bear with me!:confused:

Nope that didn't work

I think it has to be 80 x 80 pixels or 19.5 kb whatever that might mean. I remember you have to save it once you get it in there. I'm computer challenged.

[G26ster]

Just tried changing the pixels lets try this a few times....bear with me!:confused:

Nope that didn't work

Try signing out, then back in. Happened to me when I tried to post a signature. Just a thought.

[Trunkmonkey]

Okay trying that........nope...oh well i figure it out eventually......thanks

[wyntrout]

When you're editing your avatar and adding a new photo, and after you SAVE it, the manager will say the upload failed -- Don't believe that. Go to one of your posts and see if it's okay. I've gone to the trouble to make the perfect size and I have used one a little bigger and it would say the same thing, but both avatars updated to what I wanted. When you're trying to get that 80x80 with something that is not fairly equal, like 120x280... take the largest -- 280 and divide 80 by it. Take that number -- .286 and multiply the other number -- 120 X .286= 34.32. Now when you edit and change the resolution of the 120x280 use 35x80. It sounds complicated, but you're trying to keep the image as large as possible with the correct ratio... in this case 35x80 is the same ratio as 120x280. Or you could just try loading the image and see if the avatar manager will resize it. Save it and then go check a post of yours. I like to crop and try to get the largest image possible to fit in the 80x80 box. Sometimes the things are so small you can't tell much about them.
Too wordy as usual, but maybe something there helps. I use Microsoft Office Picture Manager to edit my pictures. Oh, when you're editing and resize or crop, nothing changes until you SAVE the change. A good idea is to make a copy of your picture using FILE, Save as... new name, maybe a helpful title and then edit THAT picture.
Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

Uh:confused: yeah, right. ok bye now.

[DKD]

Guys I have had my PM45 for a few weeks now. With the obligatory break in period. By the time I went through 100 rounds had no problems....shot extremely well, quite accurate at 7 & 15 yards combat targets.

You know this pistol is pushing the extreme design edge as far as a 45 cal pistol is concerned. I am still sitting at about 150 rounds down range with no misques and really don't exspect any to be honest. The checkering was a bit like a cheese grater so I added the Hogue Junior rubber slip on grips. She is really comfortable in my hand, even with the short magazine. I love the way it shoots, feels and points so naturally.

The recoil isn't so bad, quite controllable due to the egonomics of the design. You do know you have a hand cannon in your hand, however the muzzle flip is only slightly more than a similar 9mm and not quite as snappy...more of a push. It is only really more noticable when you shoot the 230 grainers...the 185 and 200 grain loads are very nice to shoot. Hell the last few rounds I shot were 200 grain hard cat lead semi wad cutters and they feed & shot as well and I haven;t finished the 200 round break in as yet.

For now I have been quite happy with this little monster and intend to carry it on a daily basis. I have heard all the nightmare scenes on numerous blogs out there and can only attribute them to poor cleaning, break in proceedures or limp wristing for the vast majority of the so called problems. Granted the tolerances are very tight and because of this I would rotate my magazines weekly to keep the springs strong. Many problems with semo autos can be attributed to magazine issues and or bullet shape profiles, so rotate mags and select ammo the gun prefers...end of problem.

Hope this input helped shed some light for you...Cheers:)

[wyntrout]

I love my black beauty -- PM45 DLC with NS -- the big brother of my PM9(now the "stepchild"). The PM45 is just a little over 4 ounces heavier than the PM9 and fits the same holsters(including the PM9 Minituck), so the PM45 is my new, favorite CCW.
I put bike tubes on both PMs' grips, especially that PM45. I didn't want anything to change the looks, but the tubes really help and are hardly noticeable.
I can just sit and fondle the PM45... I can't believe I finally have one after wishing Kahr would make a .45 ACP many years ago. I'm glad that I waited for this model, though. Now starts the wait for a K4544N -- all steel and black... if they ever make one.
Wynn:D

[jkalantzis]

Okay trying that........nope...oh well i figure it out eventually......thanks

I think you're setting it as a profile pic. Try setting it up as AVATAR. I did this same thing at first.

[jkalantzis]

I love my black beauty -- PM45 DLC with NS -- the big brother of my PM9(now the "stepchild"). The PM45 is just a little over 4 ounces heavier than the PM9 and fits the same holsters(including the PM9 Minituck), so the PM45 is my new, favorite CCW.
I put bike tubes on both PMs' grips, especially that PM45. I didn't want anything to change the looks, but the tubes really help and are hardly noticeable.
I can just sit and fondle the PM45... I can't believe I finally have one after wishing Kahr would make a .45 ACP many years ago. I'm glad that I waited for this model, though. Now starts the wait for a K4544N -- all steel and black... if they ever make one.
Wynn:D

Great Pics Wynn, love the glove action going on.:rolleyes: It looks like an Eagle could land on that thing. Just giving you a hard time I'm sure it has its purpose. But sincerely awesome pictures!!!:86:

[10Kahrs]

DKD get yourself a hogue handall jr slip on grip it helps ALOT!

[Bawanna]

I think you're setting it as a profile pic. Try setting it up as AVATAR. I did this same thing at first.

Me thinks we have a BINGO. I was thinking that same thing but then I started to get a computer headache so I tried to think of something more pleasant like drowning in a bathtub of Hoppes #9

The poster received no monetary compensation for this endorsement.

[wyntrout]

Thanks, the glove is a nomex/leather glove -- somewhat fire resistant -- did you see the pyrotechnics on that first shot??:eek: Really, it's the thinnest glove I have. I got out my bike gloves -- tight and the padded palms suck for holding a gun. I just wore the glove because of that coup de papier:eek: I had on my shooting hand where most of the recoil lands. It's about gone now and I think that the bike tube will be enough protection.
You have probably noticed that I like to use my camera a lot as well! There are a lot of guys here that need the video stimulation... they can't seem to get enough gun porn.:D
I have a bunch of my old worn flight gloves like that, only green nomex and gray leather. I'm thinking about cutting the fingertips off one so I can reload the mags with my UpLula without having to take the glove off. I have some that I used for garden, or rather lawn work that have the finger tips worn off, anyhow.
Another thing I really like -- the MagUplula. I'm waiting for the Baby model to come out. The date on that release keeps sliding.
Dang! I need to start straightening up my "hobby table" so we can dine on it.
One more night after this with wifey before she goes back to work... 5 days in a row off!:p
Wynn:D

[Trunkmonkey]

I think you're setting it as a profile pic. Try setting it up as AVATAR. I did this same thing at first.
Thanks...that worked!

[Bawanna]

Nice, that movie still tears me up and I've watched it a dozen times.

[Bawanna]

Hey Trunkmonkey, check out jbakers PM45 for sale in the sale section and mentioned in the PM section too I think.
Slightly used, suppose to run without fault. Price at 525 I believe with some holsters etc is great in my opinion. I'd be on it myself but my financial coordinator and I are not seeing eye to eye or the moons wrong or clam season is over, not sure. Just for your consideration.
Bigger than the PM9, better than the PM 40 IMO, and already proven.

[jocko]

Hey Trunkmonkey, check out jbakers PM45 for sale in the sale section and mentioned in the PM section too I think.
Slightly used, suppose to run without fault. Price at 525 I believe with some holsters etc is great in my opinion. I'd be on it myself but my financial coordinator and I are not seeing eye to eye or the moons wrong or clam season is over, not sure. Just for your consideration.
Bigger than the PM9, better than the PM 40 IMO, and already proven.

u wanna paid great attention to what BAWANNA says, as he just got in on a buy of 500 ocean side acres in Arizona. This man is shrewd and knows what he speaks. If he says that gun is a buy at $525, well:7:

[Bawanna]

u wanna paid great attention to what BAWANNA says, as he just got in on a buy of 500 ocean side acres in Arizona. This man is shrewd and knows what he speaks. If he says that gun is a buy at $525, well:7:

Dang it, am I WRONG AGAIN. I looked at Bud's an a few places and thought it was a couple hundred off new? It's proven suppose to run good. No good huh? I was gonna buy it myself, in fact I'm still trying to for that matter if momma cuts loose with some funds or I can find Peter so I can rob him to pay Paul (is that the demo way or what?)
Wasn't trying to pass off a bad deal or nuthin.
An please keep that dang Arizona ocean property under your hat, I might wanna buy some more before it's all bought up.

[jocko]

sell one of ur ocean front acres, that will still leave u 499. Don't be so damn greedy. and don't sell the one acre that sits as the bottom of the hill where all the 500 outhouses sit above it either.

[Bawanna]

Kahr Arms 5 + 1 Round 45 ACP w/3.1" Barrel/Polymer Frame & S for Sale at Buds Gun Shop $657.00 (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_51/products_id/46031)

Not sure that's gonna work or not but Buds shows the standard PM45 stainless standard sites for 657. I think that's the cheapest one I saw. So a gun with a couple holsters (left handed but still holsters) and a mag pouch can't be that bad a deal for 525 delivered.

Keep quiet about them outhouses too, I didn't get the dang permit.:lie:

[Trunkmonkey]

Thank you Sir, I actually just found out a guy I work with purchased a PM9, gonna go do some range time with him on Sat. I won't be making the "purchase" until Uniform Allowance comes in June.....keeps my "banker" from even knowing. LOL!

[Frankhenrylee]

Hello, new guy here, and I have a question: I'm in the market for a new pistol, always a good thing, and I want something small. I have been debating between a PM9 or PM40 both about the same size but I'm concerned about the recoil of the .40 cal in such a small package. Any help/advice would be very much appreciated. I am very new to the compact pistol "world".
Whats up Trunkmonkey! I just got a PM40 and its really not that bad. I prefer the extra knock down power. My wife shot it this weekend and she liked it better than my 9mm XD-M. I like it better too, the narrow grip relly helps keep you on target.

[Trunkmonkey]

Whats up Trunkmonkey! I just got a PM40 and its really not that bad. I prefer the extra knock down power. My wife shot it this weekend and she liked it better than my 9mm XD-M. I like it better too, the narrow grip relly helps keep you on target.

Decisions, Decisions........eventually I'll probably have to try them all I guess.:)

[Bawanna]

Thank you Sir, I actually just found out a guy I work with purchased a PM9, gonna go do some range time with him on Sat. I won't be making the "purchase" until Uniform Allowance comes in June.....keeps my "banker" from even knowing. LOL!

They guys here live for uniform allowance and comp time. Bankers never know. Us civilian pukes don't get that luxury, guess they dont trust us with money, they replace uniforms as needed, just no money.

[Trunkmonkey]

They guys here live for uniform allowance and comp time. Bankers never know. Us civilian pukes don't get that luxury, guess they dont trust us with money, they replace uniforms as needed, just no money.

My "banker" is the wifey....just don't tell her OK.;)

[Trunkmonkey]

Got out yesterday with co worker to the range to try out a PM9 and an LCP....All is I can say is that I was impressed with the PM9 - Very accurate little pistol, handled well, recoil didn't appear to be anything - I thought it was very controllable for follow up shots myself....I'm sold! I actually liked the LCP also...I didn't think it was too "snappy" as I've often heard commented....it shot well plenty accurate... I had no problems hitting a 5"-6" circle at 7 yards shooting as fast as I could follow up .....If I took my time was pulling 2"-3"...not bad for a self defense pocket pistol while off hand shooting. The only thing I didn't like on the LCP were the sights.

[at_liberty]

Who says a nasty little .40 that is easy to conceal is supposed to be "fun" to shoot? Some of the posts seem to miss what Kahr is all about. These are small auto pistols designed specifically for concealment that are in calibers that start with a "4". 9mm and small guns are everywhere and way cheaper.

I would agree that 9mm is just right for a range version, but the gun is not meant for shooting paper. Yeah, I know, 9mm in hotter loads is supposed to be adequate, but that is just rationalizing why one can carry a smaller gun that is more "fun" to shoot.

My PM40 is nothing more than a backup or fanny pack, car gun while I actually carry a T40.

I chuckle at the mention of grip extensions or pads to make shooting easier. Why even have a PM model if not able to deal with the abbreviated and narrow grip? It's silly. The model is all about concealment, and grip length and width are major factors. Barrel length has more to do with comfort than concealability.

The only reason I went to a PM was to have the shorter grip. That is what sets it apart from all other models...why it is such an advantage, when carrying my T40 gets to be a bit much. Even the T40 is a step down from my full-sized 1911, which is a hog but not actually that much bigger or heavier than the T40. It's more of an OWB vs. IWB issue.

The deciding factor in picking the PM40 was that I could share ammo with the T40 on my hip. 9mm or .45 ACP might be selected for a comparable reason, when someone's principal carry is 4" or more in barrel and other than .40 S&W.

So, if we're really talking about some "pocket gun" or man's toy mentality, sure the 9mm is going to win. I just never thought about needing to enjoy shooting my PM40. I always expected it to be nasty. On the other hand, when someone offered me a shot with a .454 Casull, I passed. I think it's the snap and lack of mass rather than the power that makes the .40 recoil unpleasant.

I might shoot the PM40 a bit at the range but will be more interested in moving on to the T40 and then 1911 .45 ACP. The real "fun" gun is the 1911. Easily, the best shooting Kahr for a range gun would have to be the T9. I had one and moved up to T40 for a primary carry gun.

[Frankhenrylee]

Look up the article triggernometry-center mass myth. Should be in a post I made asking about Extreme shock ammo. It'll make you want to carry a howitzer. It says something to the effect of .45= 2-3 shots, .40=4-6, and 9mm=5-8 shots. For Kahr's I train to dump full mags on target, then reload. It'll make you think long and hard about how big a gun can you carry. I have a PM40 and can say that its no problem keeping it on target, and I'm no pro by any stretch of the imagination.

[Bawanna]

My "banker" is the wifey....just don't tell her OK.;)

All wifes are bankers and sadly they already know it so no need keeping the secret. It's funny watching some of the stuff guys around here do to buy stuff so their wives won't know. I always say just buy it, save one argument. If you ask, you argue about buying it, then you buy it anyway and you argue again. I think it's a design error.:31:

[Bawanna]

Look up the article triggernometry-center mass myth. Should be in a post I made asking about Extreme shock ammo. It'll make you want to carry a howitzer. It says something to the effect of .45= 2-3 shots, .40=4-6, and 9mm=5-8 shots. For Kahr's I train to dump full mags on target, then reload. It'll make you think long and hard about how big a gun can you carry. I have a PM40 and can say that its no problem keeping it on target, and I'm no pro by any stretch of the imagination.

This runs right along with the two tribes, big bullets versus shot placement. Ill choose big bullets in the right places. All you can do, and keep the running shoes laced up tight, or the racing wheelchair tires blown up hard.
An your still right, I train to dump full mags of big bullets too. It's the right thing to do.

[Trunkmonkey]

All wifes are bankers and sadly they already know it so no need keeping the secret. It's funny watching some of the stuff guys around here do to buy stuff so their wives won't know. I always say just buy it, save one argument. If you ask, you argue about buying it, then you buy it anyway and you argue again. I think it's a design error.:31:
That's funny....I brought this up to my wife and her response was: "Would I ask you if I went to the mall and bought clothes? Just buy the it, I would."

Oh...how I love her.:)

[Bawanna]

That's funny....I brought this up to my wife and her response was: "Would I ask you if I went to the mall and bought clothes? Just buy the it, I would."

Oh...how I love her.:)

Sounds like a keeper to me.:cheer2:

[deadhead1971]

Wow! This thread has a way to go, but it just might get up there with the barrel flaking thread that is 14+ pages.

Ok. The LCP. I have one. I have 300 rds through it and just carry it since 380 ammo is scarce, except on-line. It's a neat little gun that fits perfectly in a travel shaving bag. It's reliable and the size of a toy or some "prize" in a cereal box.

I went with the PM9 because I want to range shoot the gun I carry. I have almost 1,200 rds through the PM9, and I still need lots more practice. I am still trying to figure out the index trigger finger placement.

[Bawanna]

******* jack toy?

Just have to see what you tried to say and see if I'm right. Don't see anything wrong with it.

Anyhow, it's nice to have a tiny little gun with big gun features and controls without sacrificing decent sights, trigger etc. I think the PM9 is a pretty dandy little carry gun when something bigger just won't work.
I've heard the trigger on the LCP is pretty horrible? Any truth to that?

[Bawanna]

Dang, don't like *******. Hmmm gotta wonder why, not talking about the inhabitants of the white house or anything, just like a snack food, cheese on a *******. I feel like such a bad boy.

[Bawanna]

I better turn myself in, I know their coming for me.

[deadhead1971]

:)

There is a big difference, and this is why I really don't think the PM is a DAO gun. The PM9 just has a long trigger pull. The LCP on the other hand has a hammer like a typical DA/SA revolver. The PM9 has a striker system. To me the hammer makes the LCP true DAO while the lack of a hammer makes the PM9 something else.

The trigger on the LCP is not smooth like the PM9.

[jocko]

very debateable. Some would say that if the gun does not have double strike capability then it is not a double action. Really makes no difference to me. Hammor or striker, both the lcp and all kahrs and glocks and Smiths M & P are trigger pulled to produce a bang thing, how it gets there after that is in the "eyes of the beholder". But you only get one pull only on either of these guns.

One could argue that with a revolver, when it doesn't go bang, you just pull the trigger again and it will cycle to another cylinder and get your bang and that would be true, but also it is not restriking that same dud round either. I think the true meaning of DA or DAO or what ever has gotten lost since these modern semi's have come on board.

Not sure there is a real winner definition either.

Compared to a 1911, the kahr is indeed a double action..

[Trunkmonkey]

Well....I'm no expert with these pistols. I did just shoot both pistols for the first time - LCP and PM9. I do have a lot of "time" spent behind shooting pistols though, I've been a firearms instrutor for 7 years, SWAT 8 years and an LEO for 15 - mostly Glocks, a few others like Berettas, HKs, and Sigs...all of which were full size 9mm, .40, and 45ACP service pistols. My only experience with anything compact were G27s/26s and small 5 shot .38 revolvers.

On that note....I didn't think the LCP was all that bad in the trigger department for being a DAO trigger with a hammer. I think practice makes perfect for any firearm...you get used to anything if you shoot it enough. Train, Train, and train more. Now I'm not saying the LCP deserves any awards for it's trigger...but for it's intended purpose...a SHTF extremely concealable little pistol for about $350 it does it's job. I was able to shoot more than effectively at 7 yards with it...only slightly less than my proficiency with the PM9...but more than acceptable...and I never shot one before.

The PM9 is definitely in a different "class" as a pistol. I found it better on the follow up shots - smoother "recoil follow through as we say" - I could shoot it faster per say and stay on target more effectively. Kahr has a "better" trigger..yes, and better sights...But, I usually point shoot for "combat"/"defensive" (SHTF immediate threat) inside of 7 yards anyways.

I wouldn't bash the LCP now that I have shot it.....It just serves more of a pocket pistol/hideout role and that's it....but it works. The LCP also shot flawlessly..no malfunctions and the LCP was brand new out of the box. As so...the PM9 only had about 100 rounds in it and it was flawless also with 147 grain Rem FMJ ammo.

FYI FWIW:rolleyes: I felt more "confident" with the PM9 and would not be afraid to take any shot with it that I would take with my G21SF. The LCP I wouldn't...at least yet...be comfortable outside 12 yards or so.

[a.squibload]

One more vote for PM40. Recoil IS fun, but you're not supposed to be having fun, just keep sights aligned and concentrate...

[jeepster09]

Did it pop up a message about being to big? That's where I get stuck. If my picture doesn't happen to be small enough, I don't know how to fix it. I think Mr. GB???? can't never remember his numbers is the avatar wizard. (Greg). Mr Wyn is also up on pictures and such.
Hey guys, a little help for the Trunkmonkey PLEASE? You know we love pictures.



Here use this next time it says it is to big.

Resize Images Online at ResizePic (http://resizepic.com/)

[Swat_dude]

Well....I'm no expert with these pistols. I did just shoot both pistols for the first time - LCP and PM9. I do have a lot of "time" spent behind shooting pistols though, I've been a firearms instrutor for 7 years, SWAT 8 years and an LEO for 15 - mostly Glocks, a few others like Berettas, HKs, and Sigs...all of which were full size 9mm, .40, and 45ACP service pistols. My only experience with anything compact were G27s/26s and small 5 shot .38 revolvers.

On that note....I didn't think the LCP was all that bad in the trigger department for being a DAO trigger with a hammer. I think practice makes perfect for any firearm...you get used to anything if you shoot it enough. Train, Train, and train more. Now I'm not saying the LCP deserves any awards for it's trigger...but for it's intended purpose...a SHTF extremely concealable little pistol for about $350 it does it's job. I was able to shoot more than effectively at 7 yards with it...only slightly less than my proficiency with the PM9...but more than acceptable...and I never shot one before.

The PM9 is definitely in a different "class" as a pistol. I found it better on the follow up shots - smoother "recoil follow through as we say" - I could shoot it faster per say and stay on target more effectively. Kahr has a "better" trigger..yes, and better sights...But, I usually point shoot for "combat"/"defensive" (SHTF immediate threat) inside of 7 yards anyways.

I wouldn't bash the LCP now that I have shot it.....It just serves more of a pocket pistol/hideout role and that's it....but it works. The LCP also shot flawlessly..no malfunctions and the LCP was brand new out of the box. As so...the PM9 only had about 100 rounds in it and it was flawless also with 147 grain Rem FMJ ammo.

FYI FWIW:rolleyes: I felt more "confident" with the PM9 and would not be afraid to take any shot with it that I would take with my G21SF. The LCP I wouldn't...at least yet...be comfortable outside 12 yards or so.

I would also question the significant difference in ballastics between the 380 and 9mm. I ditched my LCP for a PM9 because I always thought the 380 might just piss someone off. Yeah, I know, I know... shot placement. My good friends son just shot a mountain lion in the head with a 44 mag revolver. The animal immediately went down where it was hit. However, the round had actually deflected off the animals skull and gone down through its neck and out the back between its shoulder blades. It was a mortal wound EVENTUALLY but had only knocked the lion unconscience momentarily. You can imagine his surprise as he approached the "dead" animal and the lion bolted straight up and ran full tilt right past him before collapsing 30 yards away. Needless to say, I think there is no magic bullet and no magic shot location- only good shot placement, but 9mm is the minimum caliber I would consider for self defense.


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1387/lion00012.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/lion00012.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[wyntrout]

I use Paint to convert types (gif to jpg or pix from email to jpg using "save as" and choosing the proper format desired)or touchup pix, but I use the Microsoft Office Picture Manager for resizing, cropping and editing.
Wynn

[johnatw]

I attended a TDI seminar in West Union, Ohio last weekend. During the three day course I fired nearly 800 rounds with my CW40. I was as accurate as anyone using the 9mm in the first two days, but must admit the 40 beat my hands really bad. On the third day it was hard to hold onto the gun properly.
One of the instructors lent me his P9 to finish the day, and it performed perfectly, but with seemingly much less "force"
IMO given a choice if faced by a drugged up gang banger I would chose the 40. If I had the funds and was punching paper I would have the P9 also.
IMO any pistol is better than none.

[jlottmc]

I would also question the significant difference in ballastics between the 380 and 9mm. I ditched my LCP for a PM9 because I always thought the 380 might just piss someone off. Yeah, I know, I know... shot placement. My good friends son just shot a mountain lion in the head with a 44 mag revolver. The animal immediately went down where it was hit. However, the round had actually deflected off the animals skull and gone down through its neck and out the back between its shoulder blades. It was a mortal wound EVENTUALLY but had only knocked the lion unconscience momentarily. You can imagine his surprise as he approached the "dead" animal and the lion bolted straight up and ran full tilt right past him before collapsing 30 yards away. Needless to say, I think there is no magic bullet and no magic shot location- only good shot placement, but 9mm is the minimum caliber I would consider for self defense.


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1387/lion00012.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/lion00012.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


That's a pretty sizeable kitty. I had a turkey that I thought was dead come to life on me once, but haven't shot any mountain lions yet. I wouldn't mind, but just haven't yet. That is a good reminder of why it is best to shoot stuff twice. That outcome could have been much worse than having to track your animal for 30yds.

[swampman]

I attended a TDI seminar in West Union, Ohio last weekend. During the three day course I fired nearly 800 rounds with my CW40. I was as accurate as anyone using the 9mm in the first two days, but must admit the 40 beat my hands really bad. On the third day it was hard to hold onto the gun properly.
One of the instructors lent me his P9 to finish the day, and it performed perfectly, but with seemingly much less "force"
IMO given a choice if faced by a drugged up gang banger I would chose the 40. If I had the funds and was punching paper I would have the P9 also.
IMO any pistol is better than none.
well said,johnatw.That is a great example of the .40 S&W.:)

[jocko]

That's a pretty sizeable kitty. I had a turkey that I thought was dead come to life on me once, but haven't shot any mountain lions yet. I wouldn't mind, but just haven't yet. That is a good reminder of why it is best to shoot stuff twice. That outcome could have been much worse than having to track your animal for 30yds.

a Pope and Young record book, Mountain lion in Moab, Utah aobut 30 years ago. with one arrow out of my 70# Bear recurve. Most beutiful animal I have ever seen. I would in no way today want to hunt a mountain lion, just to me, to majestic of an amimal . Age does that u know.

We had our first official photoed mountain lion spotting in southern Indiana in over 100 years. DNR actually photoed it with the camera that one has on tress etc, after finding a deer kill and it covered up so typical of a lion kill, plus tracks around the kill area also. they are not sure if it wandered from another state or was a captive release by some owner either. the photos showed a femal cat..

I can tell you this back 30 years ago, my hunting friend in Utah killed the WORLD RECORD BLACK bear which that record stood for over 20 years, WITH A 22 RUGER SINCLE SIX. Gods truth. Definitely it is all about shot placement!!!!

[jlottmc]

I never have learned the bow. Closest shot I had at an animal was 65 yards. I wouldn't mind learning the bow, but just don't have it right now.

[Bawanna]

I killed a mountain goat with a bow in an earlier life. That ladies and gentlemen boys and girls was a physical challenge. Best tasting game meat I ever ate bar none. Wouldn't want to kill another but if anyone else did I'd sure like an invite to dinner.

[jocko]

I never have learned the bow. Closest shot I had at an animal was 65 yards. I wouldn't mind learning the bow, but just don't have it right now.

am to old anymore to bow hunt, never hunted with a gun, bow killed alot of big game in my younger days, but as old age creeps up on me, I now totally enjoy seeing deer, beer and what ever moves in the woods. I let the younger people do the hunting now. I have zero issues with people who hunt, just that I have been there done that, now would be more work than fun and I just can't picture myself climbing up in a damn tree stand.. But the memories never fade either..

[Handgunner454]

I have owned, used and carried my PM40 for many years. I have owned and shot many big bores for years at targets and deer hunting. I have gone from the great 44 mag. to 454 and the 460 and now back to the 44. (Arthur in the hands) I have shot and hunted deer for over 40 years with these firearms. The PM40 is the tame one of the bunch. LOL. I have several firearms for concealed carry I can turn to but the Kahr is the most used by far.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ Welcome Handgunner. I'm topped out at 44magnum too. Though I really have no need for anything even that large. P40 is my carry choice most often. Thanks for digging up an old thread. I miss some of them old posters.....