Up Close & Dark

[ryoung]

Deleted

[jocko]

agree on ur post. I don't do hardly any night shooter, weak hand is a real no no for me, can't hit jack with it, even feels totally uncomforatable. Not being a LEO and forced to train like that, I accept what I have and go with it. I don't consider my self a paranoid person either, so I don't look at every person with a conspicious eye either. I have carried for 48 years in pocket mode and never had to ever draw it in anger or for anything. If my good hand/arm gets messed up-then I am up sh-t creek without a paddle, but I just don't let that worry me alot either. If it's gonna happen, it will happen.
but that being said night sights are an OK accessory, whether u use it, or need it, it is there when u need it....

[wyntrout]

There's a thought -- drawing from pocket carry with the weak hand... while sitting or crouching in cover....
Wynn:eek:

[Bawanna]

All good valid points Ryoung and we should all do those things as much as we possibly can. We read alot of stuff here about this is what cops do or all cops do this, you know tactics, equipment all down the line. I guess what I'm getting at is civilians are in a different game. Civilians should not be pursueing bad guys or having a running gun battle. We're more like do what we have to do to stop an assault on ourselves or others and then get out of dodge to a safe place and let the boys with the crime tape deal with the bad guys if they are still in flight. While it's possible I can't envision more than 2 or 3 shots, course could be lots more but that would be the exception. The need for more than 1 or 2 extra mags probably not viable. Cops take on the job of going into danger. As much as civilians might be capable and even want to it's not a good idea for a multitude of reasons, one big one being responding officers don't know who's the good guy and who's the bad?
Like any tool we should learn to work with a gun as best we possibly can be it just practice, or professional training but keep in mind the limitations that us mere civilians have to live with. Make sense.

[Bawanna]

I agree with most of what your saying. Stuff like the DLC finish (which I'm not a big fan of) personal taste is hard to do after the fact like changing sights. I help alot of officers here and others as well buy guns and always encourage them to go with night sights if they can afford it and they want them. In my own mind I don't figure the large majority of average gun carriers will even look at their sights when the see the elephant. I think most members here are above average in that they shoot regularly, not enough but as much as they can with ammo prices and all the other money stuff. Many officers in shootings don't recall looking at the sights or in alot of cases that's all they remember is the look of the front sight.
I also believe that if it's light enough to recognize a bad guy there's enough light to see standard good sights. Perhaps not as good as night sights but enough. When we consider pocket guns, and small frame pistols, I think they will be at arms length distances and perhaps not even brought up to eye level. So I guess I agree, get night sights but don't feel you can't survive and win without them. And I really agree, anything over 20 yards, I'm running or in my case rolling at high speed for different place.

[wyntrout]

The stat's still say that ANYONE ( not just Leo's ) are more likely to be Up Close & at 8pm. or later when they end up having to fire their weapon in self defense. Forget about chasing Bad Guy's be you civilian or not. Last time I looked there was no big S on my chest. I'll be the 1st one to tell you, if the danger is 20 yards or more away from you..... RUN !!

I'm just saying that night sights are a small investment in your security.

If & when the time ever comes that you have to fire on someone. That little glowing green dot, in the center mass of Mr. BG's chest may be the difference. Why not have them ?

Some of you guy's on here will shell out extra $$$$ for that DLC package. Why would you spend extra cash for a cosmetic thing that does nothing to enhance your chances in a gunfight.
And , then you balk at spending those same $$$$ on something that may give you a functional & tactical advantage.

To each his own, but to me the sights come 1st. You can dress up your gun in a pretty package later. That is IF you consider DLC as pretty.

Hey! Are you saying Black isn't beautiful? Are you prejudiced or racist or something!? I wanted both and wish all of my guns had that finish because of the extra protection and the less "flashy" look. I want low key. I like SS, but have never been fond of the light or silver finish -- too bright or flashy... not very covert!

This worked for Jodie Foster in The Silence of the Lambs -- boom! See BG, target boom, boom! Adjusting aim in the flashes as needed!:D
Wynn

NS would help there, too, between flashes. Boy, wasn't that BG surprised... having night vision goggles and getting flashed and boomed like that!

[Bawanna]

:)
HEY ! I would be very proud to vote for a STAINLESS STEEL PRESIDENT.:D

+1 add infinity to that my friend. Even tupperware would be an improvement.

[jeep45238]

:) I see lot's of questions on here about Night Sights (should I get em'. Should I not ? )
Value added, but not mandatory. You're not going to be going for a good sight picture and sight alignment when your heart's racing 200 beats/minute. Toss in a busy sight picture of standard 3 dot sights, and the utilization just isn't there.

Odds are IF you are ever in a gunfight. It will happen at night , 8pm. or later and, it will be up close & personal. 10 yards or less. Law enforcement statistics back this up.

Now let me ask you........................

Other than fellow LEO's................................

How many of you go out and practice night shooting? Well you SHOULD.
When I have the opportunity to do so - not often enough, don't have my own land.

How many practice shooting strong hand only? Well you SHOULD.
Yessir.

How many practice WEAK hand only ? Not only firing but, reloading also? Well you SHOULD.
Yessir.

What would you do if your strong arm was suddenly put out of commission? Could you reload your firearm? Could you "rack" the slide with one hand?
Yessir.

These are very important things you should think about. ALL Leo's train for these things. Most civilians don't. But, you should. I would be VERY shocked if there is a Law Enforcement Agency in America that does not have Night Sights on their issued weapons.Go out and shoot your weapon on a dark night and, you will see why you should have them.
No, they don't train for these things. They have to qualify once or twice a year and do 12 stages composing of less than 150 rounds fired. They use a 50 yard pistol target at 15 yards - and as long as you're on the shadow figure, you pass.

Laser's and flashlight's have their place too. But, they also give the bad guy something to shoot at. Namely YOU !
Bunk. My LED light puts out 80 lumens - disorienting in the daylight. It is painfully blinding at night - I have tried, as have friends, both sober and drunk, to look at the light and the longest is about 3 seconds - and unable to see anything after the lights were on.

On lasers, they only come on when you're pulling out the gun. If you're pulling the gun without pulling the trigger, you aren't in a situation where you should have pulled the gun from the get go. A small 1/8" red light will not get you killed, in reality it can only help you. I'd like to know what super secret squirrel mission some armchair commando was on that came up with on this logic.

This argument isn't well thought out. If the laser is going to give you away, then wouldn't the glowing dots from night sights do the same? No? They won't? Huh, guess the laser won't either. Must be the muzzle flash.

I know that some people say " well I don't like them in the daytime. They don't show up as good as standard sights. " Well fine then, you go arrange for all the dirt bags in the world to make " daytime only " appointments with you. They are reasonable people. I'm sure they will work with you on that. As for me Night Sights are the ONLY way to go.
They're extremely reasonable people! :D Seriously though, if you want night sights, I highly recommend trying only a front night sight with a plain black rear. Sight and target acquisition are extremely fast in all conditions (see green thing over target, pull trigger). Very accurate if you do your part.

I now conclude my rant.......................
GOD BLESS AMERICA

( for an audio version or transcript of the above. Contact www.gee,thatguyrantsalot.com (http://www.gee,thatguyrantsalot.com) please send check or money order.) call in the next 30 minutes and get free Ginsu Knives.:der:

My responses in bold.

[jeep45238]

JEEP, So you are saying that LEO'S in Ohio never do any firearms training outside of semi-annual qualifying ? And they only fire 150 rounds of ammo in a year. I find that hard to believe, but if you say so.

I have yet to find any outside of SWAT - OPATA requalification standards call for a reduced round count on account of police cheifs.

I believe I stated in my OP that "Laser's & flashlights have their place too."
If it isn't on the gun, then what the heck is it for? Powerpoint presentations and when the lights go out to find the bathroom?

And They DO. They are very useful , if you train & use them correctly. But used wrong they can get you killed.
I think it was on one of my "super secret squirrel missions" with some "armchair commando's" when we logically deduced that the beam from a flashlight and a laser project forward. Allowing you to follow that beam back to it's source & target it.
Where as little itty- bitty green dots on night sights are pointed back at you the shooter. So only you can see them. Of course I cannot speak to how drunks will take this, as we were all sober at the time. Really we were " NO BUNK !"

See below.

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1669-what-sights-do-you-like-2.html#post16608

I was'nt trying to ruffle your feathers up there buddy. CALM DOWN. I was just trying to point out the benefits of why night sights are a good option. IMO. I respect your opinion & the opinion of others too.
I am for ANY & ALL training or options that help GOOD people prevail over BAD. I certainly hope that you share this belief too. We can disagree on stuff, but lets try it keep it friendly OK?
Absolutely agreed. Sorry if I came off a bit gruff - just got delivered some pretty bad news via the telephone.


Replys in bold.