View Full Version : gun ban
Harrylee
01-05-2013, 07:58 AM
how far and how bad is this gun ban going to get?
jdavis
01-05-2013, 08:10 AM
With emotions running high there is no telling at this point. Feinstein will submit her massive control bill on the 22nd in hope of "striking while the iron is hot". The anti gun groups have been waiting for a situation like Sandy Hook to take advantage of and push their agenda. I hope that logic and common sense will prevail but, congress is not known for that.
Barth
01-05-2013, 09:45 AM
how far and how bad is this gun ban going to get?
Everyone is wondering just that.
A modified Brady Bill seems almost certain.
I wouldn't be surprised to see online ammo sales and personal transfers of
firearms being added to the scope.
Also no so called Sunset Provision like the last one.
Lessons learned.
Second tier possibilities are taxes on ammo sales and gun ownership.
Third tier would be gun registration and possible broader definition of class III weapons.
Then, finally, the End Game.
Where you can't own many types of guns.
And are are required to turn them in or face legal action.
I think the more extreme positions are really long shots being set forth
as points for negotiation and compromise.
wayne100
01-05-2013, 09:48 AM
What they should be banning is the nutjobs. Gov't has been closing down mental hospitals since the early 80's, just setting them free and telling them, make sure you take these pills everyday so you don't try to kill someone.
It's almost impossible to get someone commited anymore, even if they threaten to kill someone because the voices told them to.
Barth
01-05-2013, 09:59 AM
What they should be banning is the nutjobs. Gov't has been closing down mental hospitals since the early 80's, just setting them free and telling them, make sure you take these pills everyday so you don't try to kill someone.
It's almost impossible to get someone commited anymore, even if they threaten to kill someone because the voices told them to.
The agenda is Gun, or should I say citizen, Control.
And has nothing to do with public safety.
The Brady Bill was tried and didn't work.
No flavor of gun control will.
So when this new ban fails, and it will, then there will be a call for a stronger one.
But real problems?
Like how we handle mental health.
Creating fake gun safe zones that put our children at risk.
Or a legal system that convicts a man of murder and then releases him back into public to murder again.
Nope.
That doesn't promote the agenda of disarming law abiding citizens.
We need criminal control.
Not gun control.
Guns can be used as an offensive or defensive weapon.
And I'm the good guy.
mr surveyor
01-05-2013, 11:32 AM
just to put it into a simple numbers game:
DiFi neither deserves of "needs" anything
DiFi wants 10
Difi demands to be given 100
DiFi agrees to negotiate and compromise
the idiots in Congress compromise
DiFi gets 20
America loses again
TheTman
01-05-2013, 11:42 AM
The hysteria on Facebook has really died down, people are posting many articles about how "assualt rifles" are used in very few crimes. And a lot of pro gun stuff. The most dangerous thing they are trying to do is change the rules of the Senate, to kill the filibuster, and allow passage of gun control with 50 votes, plus Biden's. We need to make sure our Senators vote against these measures.
O'Dell
01-05-2013, 12:02 PM
Personally, I don't think it has a chance, but if it does pass it's the end of us all. The only exempt hand guns will be revolvers even with grandfathering. All guns with detachable mags, nearly all semi's, will be subject to a federal permit similar to auto's and suppressors now and will require a fee and licensing. Of course, the next step after registration is confiscation.
Barth
01-05-2013, 12:11 PM
Personally, I don't think it has a chance, but if it does pass it's the end of us all. The only exempt hand guns will be revolvers even with grandfathering. All guns with detachable mags, nearly all semi's, will be subject to a federal permit similar to auto's and suppressors now and will require a fee and licensing. Of course, the next step after registration is confiscation.
I too feel gun registration is actually
part one of a two part confiscation process.
And although I hate to admit it,
I've started to think about what life might be like if we are restricted wheel guns.
chrish
01-05-2013, 02:11 PM
I too feel gun registration is actually
part one of a two part confiscation process.
And although I hate to admit it,
I've started to think about what life might be like if we are restricted wheel guns.
Won't matter, if it gets as far as a ban on semi-auto rifles and handguns, wheel guns won't make it too much longer either. Someone w/ 2 pistols and some speed loaders will go into a school and gun down just as many and then they'll take those too.
It's all or nothing at this point if you ask me. It either dies, or it begins a fast track to a full ban like the UK. How the American people react to the latter is still up for debate and I personally don't know how it'll go down. Read a lot of roll-playing-scenarios, none of which are pretty.
O'Dell
01-05-2013, 02:25 PM
Won't matter, if it gets as far as a ban on semi-auto rifles and handguns, wheel guns won't make it too much longer either. Someone w/ 2 pistols and some speed loaders will go into a school and gun down just as many and then they'll take those too.
It's all or nothing at this point if you ask me. It either dies, or it begins a fast track to a full ban like the UK. How the American people react to the latter is still up for debate and I personally don't know how it'll go down. Read a lot of roll-playing-scenarios, none of which are pretty.
As far as the current proposal by your favorite and mine, DF, revolvers aren't mentioned unless they can squeeze Them in under the "fixed Magazine" definition. As I said earlier, I don't give the new assault weapons ban, as it is currently written, much chance for passage, but your know that it's just the first effort. Who knows what the Libs will come up with next? Maybe they will institute a complete ban like IL is trying now, and make the courts try and stop them.
wyntrout
01-05-2013, 02:41 PM
They'll ask for everything that they can imagine and then our hand-wringing, want-to-be-liked "moderate" congresspersons(:D) will COMPROMISE away as much as possible... to our great loss. It's all incremental... leading up to full registration... and eventual full banning of all firearms. With the progressives running our GOVERNMENT schools of propaganda since Wilson's "reign"... or Teddy Roosevelt's... our children have been brainwashed several generations now to fear guns... in anyone's hands, except the benevolent GOVERNMENT's... and that's a big reason that Candidate Obama mentioned during his campaign..."What we need is a State Police Force as strong as the military...." He needs it to keep the "subjects" of his newly transformed government in line! Just like other despotic, socialist tyrants... Stalin, H!tler, and Mao... to name a few, who killed tens of millions of their own people!
:behindsofa:
Wynn::mad::
JohnR
01-05-2013, 05:27 PM
Republicans should add an amendment requiring gun owners to sew an emblem on their clothing when appearing in public.
Yeah, it's taking a chance that anyone remembers history, or cares about it. But isn 't the concept the same?
chrish
01-05-2013, 05:34 PM
As far as the current proposal by your favorite and mine, DF, revolvers aren't mentioned unless they can squeeze Them in under the "fixed Magazine" definition.
Yea, revolvers aren't mentioned. Won't be part of the first round. I was just saying that once they get some of what they want, it'll be this and that from now on, one more item or one more type every year or every time someone uses a particular product for something sinister. So, I was just tongue-in-cheek commenting that as soon as a mass murder happens w/ a proficient wheel gun owner, that'll be that and it'll be the next banned item.
It's all pretty scary if you ask me. I'm pretty much wrestling w/ my own demons on what I'll do w/ what I have once it happens...if it happens. Part of me has faith in the American Spirit...the other part of me knows that that spirit is pretty much gone and there aren't more than a handful of people left that respect or believe in anything anymore, Constitution and Freedom are at the top of that list.
downtownv
01-05-2013, 05:58 PM
I think this is a sheet-bomb and nobody want to touch it bare handed!
My cousin's a Union Boy and Obama, through the union, sent them a beautiful brochure that discussed Obama would NEVER come after your guns!
And we know B, don't jive nobody, right?
Oh, and yes he voted for him, as he was ordered to do.... good lil union boy!:19:
Barth
01-05-2013, 06:20 PM
I think this is a sheet-bomb and nobody want to touch it bare handed!
My cousin's a Union Boy and Obama, through the union, sent them a beautiful brochure that discussed Obama would NEVER come after your guns!
And we know B, don't jive nobody, right?
Oh, and yes he voted for him, as he was ordered to do.... good lil union boy!:19:
I've heard the same thing.
And don't believe a word of it.
Everything is smoke and mirrors with this guy.
yqtszhj
01-05-2013, 06:36 PM
Everything is smoke and mirrors with this guy.
I'd say he's smoking something for sure, or more likely he giving his supporters something to smoke.
how far and how bad is this gun ban going to get?
Well...if you accept Muggsy's opinion of a couple/three weeks back this will all blow over by yesterday because of the public's short attention span.
With luck for us gun guys the bans will only be on sales, at least in rational jurisdictions.
Black rifles are toast, permanently this time. So are mags over 10 rounds.
chrish
01-05-2013, 11:20 PM
Ahhh. The great uniter is yet again going to pit one side against the other by attempting to have retailers rail against private sales. Excellent. That's not all either, read the full text. Full court press.
But, as Muggsy stated and was reiterated above, they are also evidently aware of short-term-memory. But I'm still not convinced its gonna be enough this time. I'm 60/40 leaning toward the negative here that lxti is right on this one. At a minimum.
Glad I have a couple Kahrs. Guess I'll start to carry two ;-)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-weighs-broad-gun-control-agenda-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings/2013/01/05/d281efe0-5682-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_print.html
mr surveyor
01-05-2013, 11:59 PM
I'm not sure about the upper management of wallyworld, but I'd be inclinde to think that an intellegent marketer of firearms would recognize that existing guns tend to circulate no matter what they may have on their store shelves. If wallyworld plays into this mess, they may as well stop carrying anything related to firearms. Folks with used guns often use them for trade fodder at "real" gun shops, and since wallyworld doesn't handle the used market anyway it shouldn't matter to them.
I've never bought a firearm from walmart, but I know quite a few that have - after they sold a used gun to another individual to scrape up the cash to hand to walmart.
sounds counter productive for walmart or any other seller of new firearms to want restrictions placed on the transfer of privately owned firearms.
but what the hell do I know about marketing, I'm just a dumb land surveyor
Gentlemen:
We must cleave unto hope.
I know to the marrow of my bones our Constitution was divinely inspired and as long as there are God fearing people willing to abide those precepts penned by inspired men we will be a Nation under God.
Russ
Bill K
01-06-2013, 07:39 AM
Gentlemen:
We must cleave unto hope.
I know to the marrow of my bones our Constitution was divinely inspired and as long as there are God fearing people willing to abide those precepts penned by inspired men we will be a Nation under God.
Russ
I also believe that the Constitution was God breathed. However, I also believe that God's blessings are being removed from this nation. I fear we have gotten the government we deserve.
MikeyKahr
01-06-2013, 07:48 AM
I also believe that the Constitution was God breathed. However, I also believe that God's blessings are being removed from this nation. I fear we have gotten the government we deserve.
I'm with BillK on this one. Thomas Jefferson wisely wrote: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." We as a nation are reaping what we have sowed. :StepsOffOfPulpit:
Armybrat
01-06-2013, 08:37 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the spineless republicrats folded like a cheap buttstock on the 10 round mag limit.
Barth
01-06-2013, 08:53 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the spineless republicrats folded like a cheap buttstock on the 10 round mag limit.
Many politicians were lawyers first.
Morals, right and wrong, justice and other basic concepts you and I hold close are foreign.
Then we seem to have an ever growing portion of our populous that
is more interested in Kim K than personal freedom or rights.
Running on emotion rather than intellect.
And easily swayed by a sensationalized and exaggerated media blitz.
What little respect I've had for our news agencies has evaporated.
They simply appear to be a tool of the political machine.
These are scary times and I can't live on hope alone.
Many politicians were lawyers first.
Morals, right and wrong, justice and other basic concepts you and I hold close are foreign.
Then we seem to have an ever growing portion of our populous that
is more interested in Kim K than personal freedom or rights.
Running on emotion rather than intellect.
And easily swayed by a sensationalized and exaggerated media blitz.
What little respect I've had for our news agencies has evaporated.
They simply appear to be a tool of the political machine.
These are scary times and I can't live on hope alone.
Barth:
Luke 21:25-36
I will not dispute we are living in uncertain times. In fact, "men's hearts shall fail them" (loose hope) was foretold would happen and when I rely on the media for my understanding of world events I too loose hope.
Russ
Armybrat
01-06-2013, 10:34 AM
Look where the Obama regime wants to go:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-weighs-broad-gun-control-agenda-in-wake-of-newtown-shootings/2013/01/05/d281efe0-5682-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_print.html
Won't be surprised if it's all implemented by Executive Orders.
The ONLY thing there I would agree with is to strengthen the mentally ill reporting rules to the "no sell, no access" background check database. That may have helped prevent some of these recent mass murders.
yqtszhj
01-06-2013, 01:58 PM
I also believe that the Constitution was God breathed. However, I also believe that God's blessings are being removed from this nation. I fear we have gotten the government we deserve.
Yep
yqtszhj
01-06-2013, 01:59 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the spineless republicrats folded like a cheap buttstock on the 10 round mag limit.
Yep again
JohnR
01-06-2013, 02:17 PM
Psalm 9:17
"The wicked will go down to the grave. This is the fate of all the nations who ignore God."
muggsy
01-06-2013, 02:18 PM
Gentlemen:
We must cleave unto hope.
I know to the marrow of my bones our Constitution was divinely inspired and as long as there are God fearing people willing to abide those precepts penned by inspired men we will be a Nation under God.
Russ
+1 Russ. I believe as you believe.
JFootin
01-06-2013, 05:48 PM
Gentlemen:
We must cleave unto hope.
I know to the marrow of my bones our Constitution was divinely inspired and as long as there are God fearing people willing to abide those precepts penned by inspired men we will be a Nation under God.
Russ
I also believe that the Constitution was God breathed. However, I also believe that God's blessings are being removed from this nation. I fear we have gotten the government we deserve.
Amen and amen, gentlemen. What is needed is the biggest revival ever. But is there fertile enough ground in Americans' hearts for it to happen? Or are we too far gone? God, have mercy on us.
mr surveyor
01-06-2013, 06:04 PM
yep, we need spritual, moral and political revival.....soon
ORSalesRep
01-06-2013, 06:24 PM
I firmly believe we will see some ban. I am just not sure how severe it will be. I think almost certainly another AWB and high cap magazine ban too. I know there are many who do not believe anything along those lines will make it out of the Republican House because it barely passed before when Democrats held a majority and they also feel that gun culture has grown and strengthened a lot since the Clinton Administration. While I agree those are valid arguments that make sense, the shear fact that Obama got re-elected is evidence that lately things don't have to make sense in our current political climate in order for them to happen. I am also afraid the the spineless Republicans will horse trade away our 2A rights for some kind of spending reform.
If I hear one more person say, "I don't understand why anyone needs assault weapon," I may have a stroke! I don't give a darn if they don't understand why. There are many things those people probably own that do not interest me in any way and I do not understand why they need to own those items, but it is their choice and their right to own them and you don't see me trying to infringe on their right to own those things.
ORSalesRep
01-06-2013, 06:40 PM
Another thing that struck me last week is that I am beginning more and more to believe that Obama's re-election was the product of mass voting fraud and election tampering. There was a Gallup Poll that came out last week with well over 50% of Americans holding the belief that America's best years are behind us and we are headed down the wrong path as a country. This is just two months post election. How does a guy get voted into office and 2 months later a majority of a populace that is typically an optimistic group turn this fast?
cw45fan
01-06-2013, 06:50 PM
Ummm... Well... It's just a poll... It's just statistics.
Consider if Romney would have won. A majority could still opine that "America's best years are behind and we're headed down a wrong path"...
It's not at all a question which is specific about either "leader".
mr surveyor
01-06-2013, 07:10 PM
aren't most highways in the country limited to 80 mph or less??? Why should anyone have a vehicle that can travel over 80 mph?
oh... forgot... they're working on that too
jccraveswaves
01-06-2013, 07:20 PM
People need to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people unless under close supervision. I Would have had my guns in a safe locked away where my kid could not have access. I was raised to respect guns and safety and was not given free rain with a weapon till I could buy my own.
aren't most highways in the country limited to 80 mph or less??? Why should anyone have a vehicle that can travel over 80 mph?
......
For safe passing purposes
mr surveyor
01-06-2013, 07:38 PM
got posted in wrong thread... deleted and moved
mr surveyor
01-06-2013, 07:40 PM
People need to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people unless under close supervision. I Would have had my guns in a safe locked away where my kid could not have access. I was raised to respect guns and safety and was not given free rain with a weapon till I could buy my own.
yep... right thread after all
IF I was in a household/family that had a mentally unstable family member, I would find ways to secure firearms and ammunition. Having grown up in the 50's-60's, it was not necessary to even lock up or hide firearms for the children over 7-8 years old. Every kid was taught gun safety and what guns could do by the time they were 7-8. All of the kids knew my grandfather kept an old Stevens break-over 12 ga, loaded, behind his bedroom door, and every kid knew that room was off limits without permission or supervision. And we fully respected those rules as children. By the time I was 7-8, I knew that my Dad kept a loaded S&W Model 10 on the top shelf in his bedroom closet. On those occassions when I was tasked with hanging one of his freshly ironed shirts in his closet, I would have to stand up on a stool to reach the hanger. It put me at eye level with that beautiful old mongrel Model 10. Was I tempted to even touch it. Nope, we were taught to respect our elders and their authority. Besides, if I wanted to shoot, most any Sunday afternoon after family dinner, we could go out back and shoot.
The vast majority of us (at least non-big city) that were born before the 70's, were raised with a great deal of respect for firearms and authority. My son, born 1976, was raised the same way. He knew where my loaded revolver and loaded rifle were, and he also knew what would happen if he touched them without supervision.
Mentally ill occupants.... sure. Training for all others unless out of control conditions require otherwise.
How did we digress so much in the last 40-50 years?
__________________
JFootin
01-06-2013, 08:16 PM
Another thing that struck me last week is that I am beginning more and more to believe that Obama's re-election was the product of mass voting fraud and election tampering. ...
There was an opinion poll in Nevada shortly before Harry Reid got reelected, and it showed him in high disfavor. Yet he magically won by an astounding mass of votes from the county where Las Vegas is. Because I don't see any willingness to investigate Dem voter fraud by the Reps, I have no trust left for them either.
Nutball conspiracy theorist stuff is one of the reasons I still drop by these days. Almost sadly amusing.
O'Dell
01-07-2013, 01:11 AM
The only thing sadly amusing is you!
eireguy
01-07-2013, 01:38 AM
Give them an inch,they'll take a yard
JohnR
01-07-2013, 07:19 AM
For safe passing purposes
But it's illegal to exceed the speed limit, even if you're passing.
muggsy
01-07-2013, 08:28 AM
The democrats will load a bill with as many anti-gun provisions as possible and take whatever they can get. As long as they come away with something they'll consider it a step in the right direction. Another step toward total confiscation. Another step toward tyranny. You can only negotiate with an honest man you can't negotiate with tyrants. The republicans have yet to learn that lesson. The republicans spend most of their time on the defensive. The republicans should go on the attack. If they don't we will continue to have our freedoms diminished.
AIRret
01-07-2013, 12:31 PM
The democrats will load a bill with as many anti-gun provisions as possible and take whatever they can get. As long as they come away with something they'll consider it a step in the right direction. Another step toward total confiscation. Another step toward tyranny. You can only negotiate with an honest man you can't negotiate with tyrants. The republicans have yet to learn that lesson. The republicans spend most of their time on the defensive. The republicans should go on the attack. If they don't we will continue to have our freedoms diminished.
Muggy's you are 110% correct!!!!
None of us will know what is in there (just like the health care bill) until it passes. And even if they don't get everything they want the lawyers they have will muddy up the water and twist the document to cover ALL guns!!!!
Then it will go to the supreme court and I pray to God that the Justices will follow the Constitution!!
chrish
01-07-2013, 01:10 PM
The democrats will load a bill with as many anti-gun provisions as possible and take whatever they can get. As long as they come away with something they'll consider it a step in the right direction. Another step toward total confiscation. Another step toward tyranny. You can only negotiate with an honest man you can't negotiate with tyrants. The republicans have yet to learn that lesson. The republicans spend most of their time on the defensive. The republicans should go on the attack. If they don't we will continue to have our freedoms diminished.
Bingo Bingo Bingo my man. I have been saying this for YEARS, since I was a teenager in fact (always been a bit political and militant).
But, 'compromise' is stupid. Its one thing to chat w/ your wife or girlfriend about which movie to see or what to have for dinner. It's entirely another to negotiate your rights or equally stupid to negotiate how much oppression you are willing to accept.
Point in fact. Abortion. We, well not me directly, but conservatives in general have given in time and time again, negotiating. Now, we have morning after pills being given out in schools. How has that worked out...
Taxes. 2% payroll increase this year, back to what it was before the Bush cuts. Everybody got a tax increase thanks to 'compromise'. Sales tax, income tax, home property tax, car property tax. How much are you gonna continue to 'compromise' on? How much is too much before you say 'enough'?
chrish
01-07-2013, 01:18 PM
Muggy's you are 110% correct!!!!
None of us will know what is in there (just like the health care bill) until it passes. And even if they don't get everything they want the lawyers they have will muddy up the water and twist the document to cover ALL guns!!!!
Then it will go to the supreme court and I pray to God that the Justices will follow the Constitution!!
For now, SCOTUS would not allow a ban, or even too much of a restriction if it makes it to them. A number of battles have been won at that level already.
But w/ ObamaCare they have set the precedent for what WILL be allowed to pass by with their approval. Taxation to illicit a desired behavior/result. So, tax the ever lovin' crap out of guns, ammo, or both. Done, gun ban achieved. At least for the law abiding citizen, which is what this is all about. They use the illusion of security to ensure they have no opposition down the road. If we are disarmed, we are governed. If we are armed, we govern.
Simple as that.
mr surveyor
01-07-2013, 01:37 PM
.......Taxes. 2% payroll increase this year, back to what it was before the Bush cuts.......
uuhhhh.... that was another obama tool to distract from the truth. The 2% SS money, aka "Tax Holiday", while causing additional injury to the current social security system (reducing the pool of money in the quickly growing system), was used to make the current administration appear to be benevolent tax cutters. That was a smoke screen to make the "47%" believe they got a tax cut along with those benefiting from the then evil Bush tax cuts who actually pay income taxes. That 2% should have never been robbed from Social Security, unless the entire SS program is thoroughly revamped.
But it's illegal to exceed the speed limit, even if you're passing.
No....really?
uuhhhh.... that was another obama tool to distract from the truth. The 2% SS money, aka "Tax Holiday", while causing additional injury to the current social security system (reducing the pool of money in the quickly growing system), was used to make the current administration appear to be benevolent tax cutters. That was a smoke screen to make the "47%" believe they got a tax cut along with those benefiting from the then evil Bush tax cuts who actually pay income taxes. That 2% should have never been robbed from Social Security, unless the entire SS program is thoroughly revamped.
Oh yeah....bad idea stealing even more from the SS system to get that regressive 2% payout off the general fund books. That should have sunset last year at the least.
The only thing sadly amusing is you!
Ow....that really hurt.
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