Rifle Question/Compare

[JustinN]

I've thought about going in a different direction than buying several hand guns with my new AR riches, and that is getting myself a nice hunting rifle/alternative hunting rifle.

Quick background info, I hunt alot, enjoy it enormously, but have always been a get the job done. When I was 12 I saved up enough money to buy a used Remington Sportsman 78 in 30-06, which I have used with no modifications (it came with a Tasco 4x40 scope) for every non-shotgun/bow hunt I've done since. 19 years later I'm thinking maybe I should treat myself....

So one gun I've had the hots for, for a long time is a Marlin Model 1895GBL (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895GBL.asp). 45-70 means I could hunt damn near anything in North America, as long as I don't mind getting close.....

The other option, would be to really spoil myself and get a Weatherby Mark V - now, I'd probably have to go for the Sporter (http://www.weatherby.com/product/rifles/markv/sporter) because spending anymore than that may be impossible for me when it comes to a bolt action....but those can be really sweet. I'd love to have it in 300 Weatherby Mag, BUT I looked at Bass Pro today. I'd have 2 options in ammo. The $50 box or the $80 box (that's per 20 bullets), so I'll probably drop down to 7mm Rem Mag. (I actually fondled a Mark V Deluxe in Bass Pro today but it was in 30-06 and $2000 - they can get the Sporter in 7mm for $1400).

Has anyone had either of these guns? Any good points/bad points about either? I know the Marlin is considerably cheaper than the Weatherby, but I would most likely use the Weatherby more, and its a gun I could use until I die, and then pass it down to my grandkids, which they could then do the same with...

[Bawanna]

Not really comparable, two completely different platforms. I know the Marlin hurts nearly as bad on both ends. She kicks a bit, course your larger and no doubt leaner than I so you got a better back stop on the launching end.

I've never had much use for the 7mm or the 300 winchester either, don't recall why. I had a 338 that was much more pleasant to shoot than a buddies 300 and another buddies 7mm.

I can't think of anything in North America you couldn't take with a good ole 30-06 myself. Marginal up in the North Country as in Alaska but even then, Grizz have been take with the 06.

Weatherby does make one heck of a nice rifle, haven't kept up on them much in many years, never owned one myself but had friends that had them and shot them and fondled immensely.

[jocko]

Weatherby used to guarantee and even send a 100 yards MIA 3 shot group with every high power they ever made back in the day. Not sure if they do that or not. When roy W passed on to the big hunting lodge up north, his company then seemed to fade a bit. I recently cleaned a ladies new never shot Weatherby MK11 tubular feed that was over 40 years old, The wood on this gun is so so typical weatheg by back then. the high gloass blluing was simply outstanding and to see a gun this dated with the rarer tubler magazine was a real dream for me to wipe down and run an liled snake through the barrel and then back in the box..

[JustinN]

Weatherby seems to design their rifles in a way to eat up the recoil for you, so a 300 in a Weatherby is softer than '06 in a 700.

I suppose I could just get myself a very fancy 700 (my sportsman 78 is a poor mans 700).

[Ikeo74]

Get a weatherby Vanguard for $500 in any caliber of your choice, then put a good scope on it and you will have that $2000 rifle for a lot less. I have one in 270 win and it will take any North American game at a reasonable range.

[Bawanna]

Truth be told I never been fond of the Remington. I'm starting to sound all negative but I'm a devout Model 70 Winchester man myself. I know Police snipers followed the military and went all gaga over the 700 which was good for Remington but to me the Winchester is just a hands down better rifle.
Carlo's Hathcock liked em too. My hero that one.

Truth bet told I'd probably get a Savage bolt gun before a 700 but you can make your own decisions to fit your needs.

I had a Winchester 375 H&H for a few years, darn nice rifle that one. Didn't make your eye's bleed when you shot it but you definitely knew it went off.

Always wanted a 416 Rigby and a 505 Gibbs too, never had one yet but the life ain't over yet neither.

[kerby9mm]

I always thought Weatherbys were the Caddy of rifles. Had a Rem 700bdl in 300 mag. Too much gun really. A 30 06 is good for almost snything here as previously stated. I have a Winchester 70 in 06 with serial #59 thousand. I wonder what is worth. Its condition is near perfect got it in 1970 used for $240.

[jocko]

well today for sure the Savage line of hi power rifles is as good if not maybe even better than rem and win. Savage has come a very long way towards quality and over all acceptance by the shootin community. Just sayin

[JustinN]

I am wanting something with a nice wood stock. I have a thing for the fancy looking wood, and I've just never warmed up to the synthetic stocks for my hunting rifle...

And if I stick with a rifle that isn't soooo expensive, I could get a nice rifle and a double barrel shotgun which I also want...

[jocko]

get a weatherby then, have the best of both worlds..

[Bawanna]

I always thought Weatherbys were the Caddy of rifles. Had a Rem 700bdl in 300 mag. Too much gun really. A 30 06 is good for almost snything here as previously stated. I have a Winchester 70 in 06 with serial #59 thousand. I wonder what is worth. Its condition is near perfect got it in 1970 used for $240.

I'd be more than happy to double your money, aw heck I'll triple your money. Need my mailing address.

I'd love to have that although I most likely won't hunt again. Is it standard or Featherweight? I much prefer the standard but the Featherweights are real popular and usually a little fancier.

Let me know.

[kerby9mm]

Since the wood is important get what you want because if you get something that doesn't satisfy you then you might sell that at a loss to get the one you wanted in the first place. That has at least been my experience unfortunately.

[AJBert]

Two of the best bolt actions ever made were the Weatherby Mark V and the pre-64 Winchester Model 70.

Maybe this will help being as you like fancy furniture:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535203

[muggsy]

Two of the best bolt actions ever made were the Weatherby Mark V and the pre-64 Winchester Model 70.

Maybe this will help being as you like fancy furniture:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535203

You're a man who knows fine rifles, AJ.

[Barth]

Weatherby Offers Vanguard 2 Series Rifle Package
Weatherby’s new Vanguard Series 2 Synthetic Package includes a mounted and bore-sighted Redfield Revenge riflescope, a sling, and a carrying case. MSRP: $999.
The Vanguard Series 2 Synthetic Package offers rifles chambered in cartridges from .223 Remington to .338 Winchester Mag., including the .257 Wby. Mag. and .300 Wby. Mag. All Vanguard Series 2 rifles feature adjustable match-quality two-stage triggers and three-position safeties. The trigger adjusts down to 2.5 pounds and has an auxiliary sear for a creep-free consistent let-off.
http://cdn2.cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/weatherby-vanguard-2.jpg

[Popeye]

If I was going to go the Marlin lever action route. I'd go with an older used one. There have been many reports of these new Marlins (Remlins)are not the same quality as the older ones. The ones made by Remington/Marlin from what I have read have had there share of issues and the quality like I mentioned is just not the same. I made a trade a few years back on a 1981 Marlin 30/30 and that rifle is one of my most prized possessions. The fit finish and the action is very nice.

[JustinN]

You guys are all throwing out some really good options. That super grade Winchester is a pretty gun...and I just saw the new 50th anniversary Model 700...really a beautiful gun. I just need to go fondle them all for a while and figure out which I like the best. I've also been watching gun broker on their Weatherby Mark Vs....seems you can get them around $1000+- for pretty 'like new" guns.....but most are made in Japan it seems. I kind of want the America made one...just because.

The Savages look nice as well. There are so many choices....

[jocko]

then sticvk to Rem and Winch. I would think both are still made here. The Weatherby is not. Kimber makes somenice sh!t to. Weatherby to my know3ledge never made their big game rifle sin this cuntry. At one time their guns were made I think in german, but no more. Not a real deteretn to buy a good gun because it is not made here either but I understand your thoughts to..

[gb6491]

Truth be told I never been fond of the Remington. I'm starting to sound all negative but I'm a devout Model 70 Winchester man myself. I know Police snipers followed the military and went all gaga over the 700 which was good for Remington but to me the Winchester is just a hands down better rifle.
Carlo's Hathcock liked em too. My hero that one.

Truth bet told I'd probably get a Savage bolt gun before a 700 but you can make your own decisions to fit your needs.

I had a Winchester 375 H&H for a few years, darn nice rifle that one. Didn't make your eye's bleed when you shot it but you definitely knew it went off.

Always wanted a 416 Rigby and a 505 Gibbs too, never had one yet but the life ain't over yet neither.
To each their own kind sir.
Pre 64 Winchester Model 70s are good to go (I've never messed with any of their newer ones).
The Marine corps went to Remingtons because the guy who supplied Carlos with his Winchester ("Jim" Land) set up a program to develop a standard sniper rifle. According to him they found that post 1964 Winchesters had a "weak extractor". http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/usmc-sniper-rifles/
Here's a good article on the pre 64 model 70 sniper rifles: http://looserounds.com/2012/06/09/winchester-model-70-sniper-a-brief-history/
This article about the M40 mentions that Hathcock did prefer the Model 70, but liked both rifles: http://looserounds.com/2012/07/11/the-usmc-m40-sniper/
Chuck Mawhinney did alright with his Remington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chuck_Mawhinney%27s_sniper_rifle.jpg)


Howa makes a pretty good rifle. You might be able to find a package deal on a Model 1500 for quite a bit less than the Weatherby branded rifle, but good wood on them might be difficult to find.

Wood wise, I think Kimber's get the nod on a consistent basis (at least from what I've seen locally). Coppers are another option with great wood, but they are pricey.


If I was going to go the Marlin lever action route. I'd go with an older used one. There have been many reports of these new Marlins (Remlins)are not the same quality as the older ones. The ones made by Remington/Marlin from what I have read have had there share of issues and the quality like I mentioned is just not the same. I made a trade a few years back on a 1981 Marlin 30/30 and that rifle is one of my most prized possessions. The fit finish and the action is very nice.
I agree:) Here's a circa 1975 Model 1895 (with my, ugly in comparison, Model 700 in .308). I think it's the best 45/70 Marlin made:
http://i48.tinypic.com/nnm71i.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

[QUOTE=gb6491;213752]To each their own kind sir.
Pre 64 Winchester Model 70s are good to go (I've never messed with any of their newer ones).
The Marine corps went to Remingtons because the guy who supplied Carlos with his Winchester ("Jim" Land) set up a program to develop a standard sniper rifle. According to him they found that post 1964 Winchesters had a "weak extractor". http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/usmc-sniper-rifles/
Here's a good article on the pre 64 model 70 sniper rifles: http://looserounds.com/2012/06/09/winchester-model-70-sniper-a-brief-history/
This article about the M40 mentions that Hathcock did prefer the Model 70, but liked both rifles: http://looserounds.com/2012/07/11/the-usmc-m40-sniper/
Chuck Mawhinney did alright with his Remington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chuck_Mawhinney%27s_sniper_rifle.jpg)


I agree. I felt in the sniper programs infancy when the manufacturers were courting the Marines that Winchester should have stepped up and improved the area that they wanted addressed.
Carlos and Chuck I'm sure could just about out shoot anyone with a stick and a piece of water pipe.
I guess my point was if the military had chosen the Winchester there would be millions of Winchesters in police armories and a whole lot less Remingtons. Kind of a monkey see, monkey do scenario.

We have two Robar sniper rifles built on 700 actions. I was totally against the whole sniper program since they will never be utilized and there's no bigger drain on a dept budget. My sons FN was a fraction of the money,like 1500 compared to 3500 as I recall and it will shoot right with them.
Several hundred more dollars for a special camo paint job which does nothing in a city environment but it's cool and tacticool.

Actually that FN is quite a rifle to consider too. It's like the pre 64 Winchesters. A tac driver too.

[les strat]

Justin, Weatherbys are most definitley fine rifles. We have a few of them where I work in "odd" calibers that were used on African and Asian safaries.

You are right, the gases are expelled away from the shooter and they are designed to reduce recoil. The older one's had bluing that you could stare at for days. Don't know about the newer ones.

Here's a recent article (http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/the-weatherby-mark-v-comes-home/)in The National Rifleman on the Mark V.

That said, I agree with Bawanna: I believe Savage is making one of the most accurate rifles out there and at a great price. I sighted my Nikon Monarch 3-9x40 on my 110 30-06 last fall and got a <1" 3-shot grouping from the bench! That is unreal. I have mine dressed with a custom Boyd's laminated Monte Carlo stock with laser stippling. I like it A LOT.

I also agree that 30-06 is a good all-around rifle for anything in N. America.

If you are wanting a prized rifle, definitley go with the Weatherby, but if you want a super-accurate shooter for lugging around in the woods, there are a lot of other great options as well, with nice wood options too. Plus, you can get a few other firearms to boot with the extra cash.

Either way, seems like a win-win situation to me :D

[JustinN]

And that's the one thing that makes me cringe away from the Weatherby....the first time I'm dragging a white tail through the woods and knock my stock against a tree scratching it, I don't want to break down and cry.....Not that I won't find a nice stock on other guns I wouldn't want to scratch, but at half the price I'd handle it better...

The only reason I want something other than 30-06 is I have one, and will keep my Sportsman 78. If I want to go shoot something with '06 I'll use that gun. It works great, it's proven itself over and over. I just want other options, though maybe I shouldn't worry about it. My current rifle is the no frills gets the job done gun. I'm just hankerin for something a little more fancy, especially now that i'm finally in a position to be able to afford to travel outside of Missouri to hunt. I've got a list of critters I need to hang on my wall and most do not live near here. That being said, I've also thought about going with something like .243 so my wife and little girl could eventually use it on white tail, and I could hunt with it around here, as well as kill a few things out west I've been wanting with it. Again, I'm not getting rid of the old rifle, so I'll still have that 30-06 option.....It's also an old straight, no recoil pad, wooden stock, so it isn't the most forgiving to shoot. A nice Monte Carlo with recoil pad may make a big difference in the '06 recoil, making me less hesitant to hand it to the wife...

I really like the look of the stainless on a rifle (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-cdl-sf-limited-edition-2012.aspx), as long as it's matte, but that doesn't have that nice Monte Carlo Stock. One thing I have to give the Remingtons over the Weatherbys is the safety. I can work that 700 safety a whole lot easier, but that may because it's what I've messed with all my life.

[AJBert]

As far as what you just said about caliber and recoil and hunting out west, may I suggest the ol' reliable .270? Just google a fella by the name of Jack O'Conner (last name may be misspelled) and you'll know just what that little round is capable of.

Recoil is very manageable, accuracy is more than adequate and range is more than most can shoot. I've take elk past 300 yards with no problem and let my son when he was 13 years old use it for deer. I've shot a .270 since I was 11 years old. Can wear on a body at the range after a dozen or more rounds, though. Much easier than a .30-06 by a large margin.

[Bawanna]

I still miss the days of ole Jack O'Connor butting heads with Elmer Keith. Fast and flat versus slow and heavy but knock down a California Redwood.

Both were quite characters and when they went head to head it was quite entertaining. Miss them both, usually side with Elmer but I do love the 243 and the 270.

I meant to detour coming back from Wyoming a few years ago thru Salmon Idaho and see what tributes they had to Elmer. Ran out of time and had to dead head. Maybe another trip.

[mr surveyor]

there's now only two "utility rifles" on my want list, and either would fill the bill for most of my needs in NE Texas. An older Marlin in .44 mag, and a new stainless Ruger Scout Rifle in .308. I'm leaning more and more to the Scout Rifle for "all around" needs. Where I am, or will ever be, 300 yards is about a max shot, and the Scout Rifle is more than adequate...so I've heard. But, then again, I'd doubt I'll ever face a bull moose or a grizz in my neighborhood either. I'm just a fan of the mauser action.

[Bawanna]

My son has a Ruger Scout and its a great rifle. I'd like to get one of my own. He has a couple 308's and I don't have any. Probably be reloading for 308 soon so I should have one too.

Only makes sense right?

[jocko]

I still miss the days of ole Jack O'Connor butting heads with Elmer Keith. Fast and flat versus slow and heavy but knock down a California Redwood.

Both were quite characters and when they went head to head it was quite entertaining. Miss them both, usually side with Elmer but I do love the 243 and the 270.

I meant to detour coming back from Wyoming a few years ago thru Salmon Idaho and see what tributes they had to Elmer. Ran out of time and had to dead head. Maybe another trip.

those two were THE MEN back in the day, I was found of Elmer. He just seemned like a fella who would ride in on a horse to your campfire, andthe horse dump a load right on the fire and then he would ride away. I might be alittle off on that to..Just sayin:D

[RRP]

...andthe horse dump a load right on the fire and then he would ride away.

Hot sh!t :D

[JustinN]

And just getting a .243 is an option, and keeping the '06 for when I want something bigger....I like the idea of a big caliber and being able to really reach out, but I bow hunt. Not nearly the power and you get very close.....so I'm sure I could get close with a rifle, at least close enough for the '06 to be plenty strong. Plus the .243 I could shoot all day as well as it being a good "loaner gun" for any friends/family/etc that want to go hunting with me and don't have a gun...

[Bawanna]

I cringe at the thought of loaner guns. My dad used to make me loan my step brother a gun. Thinking like a democrat (although he wasn't one) he felt I had a lot and he had none so I should provide.

That dude didn't belong anyplace without side walks and walk and don't walk signs. I could write a book about his escapades in the woods.

The stupid stuff he did just never ended. His heart was in the right place, just didn't have a brain to go with it.

He thought he'd do me a favor and install sling swivels on my very early Win 30-30 that he preferred. I had the proper tube mount version but the rifle was so light and handy I never bothered with a sling.

He took a drill and tried to install the screw in type on the forearm. Woods probably 1/4" thick at that point before it hit the tube, drill walked of course leaving a big boo boo in my otherwise pristene gun.

I fixed it up, it's not perfect but better. Would have been better to have not loaned it.

He eventually got his own 30/30, a new one and he couldn't hardly load the thing without it going off when he lowered the hammer. We'd all get on the other side of the truck while he loaded. I'm lucky to be alive.

[Bawanna]

If you want to reach out Justin, don't skip over the 270. Both the 243 and the 270 are flat shooters.

I'm enjoying your dilemma immensely. I'm gonna go whittle some but maybe I'll browse in your behalf a little later and see what I can come up with.

We got similar desires, I like nice wood and large calibers. Maybe we're twins separated at birth?

[JustinN]

As far as the loaner gun goes...it's more of a "Oh you want to hunt with me, OK. Walk next to me carrying this gun, shoot that animal, give me my gun back". Not a loaner in the sense of it leaving my sight....

Realistically, I only need to be able to shoot 300 to 400 yards. I don't think I'd ever try to take a game animal further than that, too much risk, too much time can pass by the time the bullet gets there. Would I see that much benefit in the 270 over the 30-06 at that distance, knowing it shoots flatter, but usually a lighter bullet? Also, the 270 recoil seems to be about the same as a 30-06, so I'm not gaining an "easy" shooter going with a 270. The 243 idea was for something primarily for White Tails, maybe coyotes, hogs, antelopes...etc. If I go up to Elk and larger, I could stick with my '06. I like the idea of the "Mountain Rifles" and going with a lighter caliber wouldn't feel as bad as a big caliber in the light rifle.

I'm starting to think I need to either go with something that kicks my teeth around in my head with every shot, but can kill a big animal at 400 yards with ease, or something light that I can shoot all day and have fun making groups that touch each other at 150 yards...

I need to make it back to Bass Pro (maybe tomorrow, was going to go trout fishing, but it's supposed to be really cold here) and handle several other brands. I've always been around Remington's growing up, never handled a Savage, Winchester, etc. I looked at a Browning at BP the other day, $1000 gun and felt no where near as nice as the Weatherby I looked at ($900 more expensive though), nor did it feel even as nice as my old Sportsman 78. That is one of my big fears on getting a new rifle. I won't like it as much as what I've got...I built a "long range" .223 gun a few years ago using the 700 SPS Varmint setup. Really nice gun and could really reach out there, but weighed a ton. Didn't have much use for .223 outside of a high capacity gun, and seeing as I don't have the desire to kill prairie dogs I sold it off. It was a nice gun, but the action was not as nice or smooth as my Sportsman, or my dad's 1981 700 BDL...

[Ikeo74]

Justin, The Weatherby Vanguard also comes from the factory with a deluxe Walnut Monte Carlo stock in a high gloss finish. I have one and they are guaranteed to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. A great looking gun for around $800.http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/weatherby-vanguard-sporter-rifle-vds306sr4o-springfield-bolt-action-monte-carlo-walnut-stock-black-finish-p-26676.html See an example here.

[JustinN]

I need to look at the Vanguards in person. I looked at the Mark V and didn't ask about the Vanguard when I was there. They could be an option as well. Looks like Budsgunshop has the Sporter for $650 (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/78958/Weatherby+Vanguard+S2+257WBY+SPRTR)....

I do like the way it looks, and I know the one linked is 257 WBY Mag, but they are out of stock on other calibers, though the 30-06 was $613 and 243 was $607. Is the main difference between the Sporter and the Deluxe how shiny they are?

[Ikeo74]

I am not sure of the difference, I have owned mine for over 10 years. I have the 270 and My son has the 300 win. You probably need to see them inperson to see which one you like better.

[Bawanna]

Don't be lead to believe that those knock your teeth around in your head calibers can shoot to the moon and back either. Usually those are even more up close and personal than the normal calibers.

As a bow hunter, I used to be one too, you know that it's never necessary to make a 300 yard shot at anything. Antelope might require a poke but even they maybe not.

Any dangerous came Grizzly, Cape Buffalo, etc, etc, are usually shot well under 100 yards. I don't know this first hand but read lots of books planning my dream hunts.

[jocko]

shot 3 Pope and Young atelope around Casper, wyoming years back.Learned real quick that they don't look up, their eyes are made to look damn near 180 degrees flat. I climbed up on a windmill platform one day just to look around where I was hunting and could see antelope coming towards me. I felt oh well they will see me up here and stop a100 yards + out. they never did they just keep coming right into the waterhole. I could not believe my eyes. Once we found the key to this type of hunting, it was then wait for a nice big buck and take your shoot. I never shot more than 25 yards at ay of the 3 I bow killed over the years their. Prior to that, it was , yup "oh there's one a hundred yards out, u couldnt sneak up to well on them on the ground . U were on their turf then. Get 20 feet up and it is a whole new game... Just sayin

[JustinN]

True on all regards. My wife let me stop at BP just now and that helped narrow the field...I handled the Weatherby Vanguard - it felt too much like my Sportsman 78, very nice action but very plain boring nearing ugly wood, I also didn't like the plastic floor plate. The Savage - action did not feel good, kind of grainy and cheap feeling safety switch. The Winchester felt very nice, had a better weight than the others, and I liked the stock a lot (though it wasn't a Monte Carlo). At this point it will be between a Remington and a Winchester.

Now, caliber wise I think I may go 243, just for the fun aspect, but I'm still researching...

Bawanna, when I said kick my teeth I meant 338 mag, etc...I know people talk about power needed, but I wonder why you HAVE to have thousands and thousands or ft/lbs at 300 yards for an elk, when an arrow with 60 ft/lbs will blow through one. Hell, my poundage and speed on my bow has me shooting 71 ft/lbs...enough for a grizzly....

[Bawanna]

I hunted Elk here with a 338. A Ruger 77. Great gun, less kick than a 300 or a 7mm Winchester that I shot side by side.

I used it because around here quite often you shoot an elk and by the time you get to it someone else it throwing their tag on it.

I like to drop them in their tracks if possible.

I did encounter this bow hunting too. I came across a boy about 13 or so walking in the woods and border line crying. I asked him what was wrong. He had been put on a stand by his dad and had shot a nice 5 point Elk. He waited as he was instructed and then walked over a ridge to find 3 guys tagging his elk. Smart kid he said his arrow was still in the animal and their quivers were all full. He mentioned that and they pulled his arrow out and told him what arrow and tossed it in the brush.

He had covered some distance from the kill sight and even though I had my guns I didn't really want to confront anyone without the law there. I went with him and found his dad and grandfather, then contacted the game warden. I don't know if he ever found them or not.

On the bright side the boy shot a even nicer 7 point elk two days later. Made my day even though I came up empty.

[JustinN]

My dad had a similar thing happen with some "friends" once. Very Very Large whitetail. I wasn't with them but the "friend" and his son were with my dad, heading out. Across a field they saw this big whitetail buck. The son shot at it and the deer took off running. He shot again and it kept running. His dad took a shot, deer kept running. My dad aimed for the neck, and dropped it. Before they ever started towards it he told them "I shot him in the neck". They got there and there was a small hole (the boy was using a 6mm) in the back leg, (definitely not a killing shot, at least not in a timely manner) and there was the '06 hole in the buck's neck. No other wounds. The dad immediately started telling the son what a good job he did, how nice his deer is, etc. My dad was just in shock and let it happen...later, after he'd had time to really think about it, he let into the guy about what horrible ethics he is teaching his son, teaching him not to be the best shot, just be the quickest...as long as you wound it, its yours.

My dad was not happy. It was the biggest buck of his life, but what can you do? Keep hunting and hope for the best. I've always been fortunate enough to never have to follow my animals far. 40 yards at the most, including Bow kills.

[mr surveyor]

Justin

The .243, in my opinion, is the best "compromise" rifle round available. Shoots fast, flat, light recoil, and the 80-100 grain bullets will do a number (at velocity) on any small-medium game with a well placed shot. More than once I've seen 250-300 lb ferral hogs dropped DRT at 300 yards with the diminuative little .243. My last .243 was a Ruger M77 MKII that would easily shoot .75 moa at 100 yds off the bench. It was a shooter.

As for the Vanguard (Japanese mfg?), I know the older models were very well made, and good dependable rifles. What you said about the new plastic parts confirmed my fears with the introduction of plastic. I would look for an older model myself, even if I had to pay near new prices.

And the "scratch thing"..... easy remedy for a gun you intend to actually use rather than just take it from the dark recesses of storage occassionally to show it off. As soon as you get it home, take a 60 penny nail or a 2 inch dry wall screw and give it a couple of character marks. No more fear of the "first scratch" while hunting.:)


surv

[AJBert]

If you are looking at the .243, great round and under rated IMHO, you might want to do a comparison with the .25-06. Just finished my own comparisons as I was looking at the two.

As much as I love the .243, I'll be getting a .25-06 for my next rifle.

[JustinN]

The 25-06 does sound interesting, but the increased cost of ammo and the increased recoil (though not a a lot) is still enough to make me side more with the .243. I like the extra power of the 25-06, but I don't think I'd like trying to take an Elk with one, I'm going to stick with my 30-06 for something like that, and for white tails, the .243 will be more than sufficient around here (most shots are under 100 yards).

Can anyone attest to the recoil of the 25-06 vs the 243. I'm particularly thinking of my wife. She is pretty thing, has not been around guns much, and really has only shot my .22s much. She shot my .45 and 9mm a bit, and didn't overly care for them, they kind of scared her. She really enjoyed the .22 rifle and hit crazy good with it...

[mr surveyor]

another real stinger is the .22-250. I dropped a coyote at 290 yards from a kneeling position with a buddy's .22-250. Don't think I would deer hunt with it though.

[JustinN]

I went to Academy sports just now. Had a really pretty stock on a savage, came with a Nikon scope. Action felt nice, not as nice as the few hundred dollar more Winchester, but what can you expect.

How is the savage quality, in terms of accuracy and long term last, compared to a rem 700 and Win 70?

I'm going to a couple pawn shops/used gun stores after lunch, then back to Bass Pro to look a little closer and to shoot my K9 at the indoor range.

[jocko]

I know many will say no comparison but I guessit depends what model savage ur buying. Today their quality is outstanding. U can't go wrong with a win or rem, u know that. I never heard of any savage rifle blowing up or being ever shot out. Their reputation has always been in the lower grade line of guns and it is gonna be hard to change thatin the minds of guys like bawanna andutters who think win or rem is the only way to go. I shot a buddy's dave and i HAVE ANO IDEA WHAT MODEL IT WAS, BUT IT DID HAVE THE SYNTHECTIC STOCK ON IT AND THERIR TRIGGER ON THAT GUN WAS BETTER THAN ANY WIN OR REM i HAD EVER SEEN. jUST SAYIN

look at the americanclassic model 14/114 in 300 win mag. comes with the accu trigger, which is one of thefinest triggers IO have ever put a finnerin. Not a low grade, good american walnut with rosewood front end peace and grips cap. ret for $885.. I think this is the top of their line.

www.savagearms.com/accuracy/accutrigger

[Armybrat]

The Ruger 77s seem to have some interesting versions, including the African...

http://www.ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAfrican/images/47119.jpg

[JustinN]

Just looked at a Swiss Arms SHR 970. Very nice rifle! BP has them for $999 in 270, 30-06, or 7mm mag. I'm thinking about the 270 to replace my current rifle now, instead of going lighter caliber...but I also want to check out a CZ rifle, but no one around has them :(

[Bawanna]

I just got back from Cabela's and they had a lovely Winchester, I believe pre 64 in 270 for 799. It was pristene. It may have been the classic with the controlled round feed but it sure seemed pre 64.

I left the CC alone and rolled away. If I buy a rifle now it will probably be a Ruger Scout or at least something in 308 so I can share ammo with the boy.

[otium]

Me, if I only was going for one gun and had no clue what I was going to use it for later on, then pick something bigger in caliber. Then start reloading for it and you can make up a round for anything you might end up hunting. Light and fast or slow and heavy.

If including an Alaska hunting trip, the .338 Win Mag is probably about as good a starting point as it gets for the &quot;all around&quot; caliber. Low end weights start at 185gr and go up to 300gr. Good for antelope and deer sized game up through and including moose and griz.

I see you are Missouri, so if you never plan on including Alaska, then the 30.06 is a mighty fine due to it's versatility in bullet weights.

You probably should get over the wood versus synthetic stock thing, especially if you worry about scratches and will hunt in bad weather.

If you are just going to use it just for show at the range, wood stocks are fine and lesser calibers are fine, too, but out in the rain, mud and snow a synthetic stock is king due to it not absorbing all the moisture and messing with your shot. You will also be banging your way through the outdoors with rocks and trees and scratches are inevitable. A range rifle will generally not get so abused. A hunting rifle is a tool, no different than a CCW rig getting holster wear - it's just going to happen.

Also as far as money spent, you should plan to spend from a third up to as much as you did for the rifle (even possible to spend more than the rifle). Good optics are expensive and you do get what you pay for. Also good optics won't break under recoil of a full house loads if you end up with a .338.

Speaking of full house loads, if going with something like the .338, I'd toss in getting a decent muzzle break either on the rifle when you buy it, or adding one from a reputable gunsmith. Your shoulder will greatly appreciate that addition when you are seated at the bench rest and planning on shooting a box of those full house loads.

[jocko]

nice post otium. makes alot of sense.. kindaunusual for this forum.Just sayin

[JustinN]

I bought a rifle during lunch today. Savage model 10 Trophy Hunter Deluxe XP. I really liked the look of the gun, thought the action felt nice enough, and then I tried the Accutrigger. SOLD.

.243, came with a Nikon scope, and cost me less than the other guns I was considering without a scope. Now to go poke some holes in paper and see how it really handles.

[gb6491]

I bought a rifle during lunch today. Savage model 10 Trophy Hunter Deluxe XP. I really liked the look of the gun, thought the action felt nice enough, and then I tried the Accutrigger. SOLD.

.243, came with a Nikon scope, and cost me less than the other guns I was considering without a scope. Now to go poke some holes in paper and see how it really handles.
Congrats on the new rifle!:)
If you adjust the trigger (even if you don't), you might want to put some purple or blue Loctite on the Accutrigger adjustment spring; the spring on my Scout rifle had a tendency to adjust itself:eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V43KqIdjWIs
Regards,
Greg

[otium]

With a bullet weight range of 55gr to 105gr, that should work fine for long range varmint shooting and some smaller game, up to around antelope and whitetail sized animals. You should check each state's rules you ever plan to hunt in as far as minimum caliber size and weights go for the game you are after.

You will have to give a range report when you get a chance to take it out for some play time.

[Armybrat]

Congrats, sounds like a nice acquisition.

[JustinN]

I'm excited for it. That trigger is very very nice. It's for targets, varmints, MAYBE whitetail or pronghorn. I still have my 30-06 for anything bigger, so I'm not too worried about the killing power of the 243. It most likely won't shoot anything bigger than a coyote unless I get lucky enough to go for an antelope.

[Popeye]

Congrats

[les strat]

Congrats Justin. The accutrigger and Savage's inherent accuracy is what sold me on mine. You need to post us a pic.

Meanwhile here's may Savage 110 30-06 that I mentioned earlier. It has a Nikon Monarch 3-9x40 and a Boyds laminated stock with laser stippling.

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q706/bonehead911/0907121048a_zpsf5424a46.jpg

[JustinN]

I'll get a picture of it once I get home. It's been very hard buying a gun and then not even getting it out of the box for hours....but at the same time I don't know if my co-workers would appreciate me in the parking lot with a scoped rifle....they might think something has went amiss.....

[jocko]

I bought a rifle during lunch today. Savage model 10 Trophy Hunter Deluxe XP. I really liked the look of the gun, thought the action felt nice enough, and then I tried the Accutrigger. SOLD.

.243, came with a Nikon scope, and cost me less than the other guns I was considering without a scope. Now to go poke some holes in paper and see how it really handles.

love the 243 to. It is a real hole puncer That accutrigger is just super.I shot my buddies and could not believe I was shootin and holdin a Savage. These guns are real top quality..

that set up wouldhave been my choice 100%. 243 is an excellent round certainly good enogh for antelope and deer IMO. a real coyote buster.

[mr surveyor]

nice choice!

[TheTman]

Sounds like a nice setup you have there Justin, congrats. They do use it for whitetail some here. At 6mm it's as small as you can use in KS.
For fun have you looked at Gallery of Guns' guns genie? You can search by caliber and see quite a variety of whats out there, kind of helps to know whats available in the caliber of your choice. It's at: http://galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx
There are a quite a few guns on there I'd never heard of. Trouble with it is, I see so many things I'd like to have, and so little money, LOL

[Krusty]

Buy a Sako and never look back!