Lasers, love’m/hate’m

[medezyner]

Here’s the dilemma: my wife didn’t shoot the S&W 38 sp very well and does much better with the Glock 26. Yup, trigger control is always the issue! Anyway, the S&W model 60… gone, the G26…up for sale. Why? I’d rather carry the PM9 than the G26, no diss on Glock. Also, for my needs, the G26 is too short for competition and has no accessory rail. (I’d like something for Steel Challenge and whatever competition I don’t have the time or money for.) I’m looking at a Glock 17 (b/c of rail) with either a laser or a tactical light. I’ve always trained with hand-held light versus rail mounted so when it comes to a home SD situation that my wife will react naturally/instinctive too, it don’t have a feel for what might be the right purchase (for her).
Any similar experiences out there?

[recoilguy]

For me a laser is a very nice tool. I practice with it and I have it zeroed in at 6yards.......my pillow to my bedroom door. The laser is a very handy tool for me and has helped me a lot. I can snap cap and see if I am jerking and I can draw and point. then see if I am close to where I think I am. Do not have one on every gun and there is no need too. The CCW and bed side both have a CT trigger gaurd mount on them. Easy to activate out of the way helps my aging eyes.

RCG

[medezyner]

For me a laser is a very nice tool. I practice with it and I have it zeroed in at 6yards.......my pillow to my bedroom door. The laser is a very handy tool for me and has helped me a lot. I can snap cap and see if I am jerking and I can draw and point. then see if I am close to where I think I am. Do not have one on every gun and there is no need too. The CCW and bed side both have a CT trigger gaurd mount on them. Easy to activate out of the way helps my aging eyes.
RCG
Yup, thats where I'm not sure the direction I should go. The laser could help her (and me) with the point, but not the target identification. I'm thinking is all about personal situations: kids coming in late, no kids, empty nest, retired...etc. Probably the best configuration is a hand held light and a laser mount?

[ltxi]

I'm an early adopter who has since opted out. Don't see the need and don't like the complications. Good night sights and Surefires a/r have served me well for many years.

[jeep45238]

Excellent training tools. Definitely not something I'd take off of a carry gun, assuming that it activated when I grabbed the gun. Not something that's on my priority list to buy though.

[wyntrout]

Mike, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you on that laser/NS thing the other night -- too tired and just was not interested enough to say okay. Toss some emoticons in when you're joking or being sarcastic -- it's hard to read emotions form straight print!:p
I/we need to find that thread about the Marine who got "tunnel vision" with his un-practiced reloading... in combat. Anyone who hasn't read that needs to... badly. That's good reinforcement for practicing simple tasks until you can do them without getting distracted by pissants while you're up to your ass in alligators! Situational awareness, NOT assuming stuff, use of cover and just effective procedures that Marine should have been trained in and used. That's a really good "training aid" and that guy has probably saved a lot of lives by sharing that experience and his mistakes.

http://kahrtalk.com/ccw-tactics-training/1035-your-gun-tool-not-talisman-train-train-train.html Fantastic for encouraging PRACTICE!

Keep up the good work.
Wynn:D

[Bawanna]

Mike, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you on that laser/NS thing the other night -- too tired and just was not interested enough to say okay. Toss some emoticons in when you're joking or being sarcastic -- it's hard to read emotions form straight print!:p
I/we need to find that thread about the Marine who got "tunnel vision" with his un-practiced reloading... in combat. Anyone who hasn't read that needs to... badly. That's good reinforcement for practicing simple tasks until you can do them without getting distracted by pissants while you're up to your ass in alligators! Situational awareness, NOT assuming stuff, use of cover and just effective procedures that Marine should have been trained in and used. That's a really good "training aid" and that guy has probably saved a lot of lives by sharing that experience and his mistakes.

http://kahrtalk.com/ccw-tactics-training/1035-your-gun-tool-not-talisman-train-train-train.html Fantastic for encouraging PRACTICE!

Keep up the good work.
Wynn:D

How profound Mr. Wyn. I don't think I've ever seen one of your entries so meaningful, on subject, and right on the mark.
You feeling ok?:hippie:
Less than 75 and you hit 1000 entries, is there like a prize for that?
Kidding aside you hit this nail on the head.

[wyntrout]

Thanks, and thanks to Mike. It's nice to train in all the little details, but you need to think about all the things and how they fit together.

Not too long ago "they"(60 Minutes or 20/20, or something like that) televised a kind of training test for college students where they put one or two(?) at a time in a "classroom" (with other students who weren't armed) with a weapon that fired something -- blanks or some kind of squib loads... I don't remember, but the big thing was how people reacted to a gunman busting in and starting to shoot everyone. Most forgot the first thing or didn't know it -- survival tactics... like DUCKING, using cover. Not too many were even able to draw their weapon before getting shot. Standing up in the middle of the classroom, fumbling for your weapon puts you at the top of the class... kind of like raising your arm and getting attention. One of the guys just stood there and tried to draw his weapon THROUGH the T-shirt... he got nailed. Some of it is "freezing"... deer in the headlights kind of thing.
I don't remember if it was because of the weapon that they "stood their ground" or just total lack of a "plan"... as in trying to seek cover and get the heck away from the killing ground. I think a few were able to return fire and then they introduced another factor... an accomplice who started participating after the armed students were identified -- a real eye-opener -- and something to consider before jumping into a situation like a robbery in a store or something you're at. You can't assume there are no accomplices and set yourself up as a "Mole" in a Whack-a-mole situation. That's a fun game when you're the whacker... not so much for the whackees.

I haven't "participated" as a shooter, though I was ready, but I have sought cover as the sh!t was flying and I watched ordnance and bullets smacking about. I was Air Force and not part of the base defense, but I was armed with an M-16 (that I had never fired) and 7 magazines and a .38 revolver that I had fired for qualification. Living in "Mash" style tents within 10 feet of the outer perimeter can give you a ringside seat sometimes... the good thing was being about as far from the runway and main target as possible, though you got an idea of how even that was too close because there was a freaking F-4 engine lying just outside the inner fence about 20 yards away, blown there from a previous attack. Did I mention that we were in tents? We did have bunkers at each end of our row of tents. Since most of the Air Force personnel are never armed, our main tactic was to get into the bunkers as quickly as possible and hopefully, there would be a few guys with guns who could help defend the bunker. Some weapons were "irregular" -- I saw more than one USAF guy walking along with a Thompson SMG strapped on his shoulder, and who knows how many had acquired "personal" weapons.

This was on my second Temporary Duty tour to Danang AB and during the 1st Tet Offensive in '68. I don't mind relating it to friends who haven't had more experience, but I feel real silly bringing it up when there are lots of guys out there and here, I'm sure, who did more than "see" combat... as in chasing down or repelling the VC or NVA trying to attack us or spending months at a time in the bush or jungle without all the modern facilities like showers and toilets or clean clothes, OR hot meals, OR dry, serviceable boots, let alone clean dry socks. We had a lot of Marines there, as Danang was an R 'n' R "oasis" for the guys from the boonies. I gave a lot of them transportation in our aircrew bus whenever I could. I have a lot of respect for those guys and I've read a lot about their experiences over there -- all of our fighting forces.
I liked the TDYs -- much more exciting than Okinawa -- and I didn't have so many people above me, as a newly promoted 21-year-old Staff Sergeant as of 1 January 1968. As a new NCO I got to go over there as our Project NCO (glorified gofer and aircrew bus driver) and only had to fly once a month while there. That "tour" I had a First Lieutenant as Project officer and he brought me the M-16 and ammo the night of the first Tet offensive because Intel was predicting attacks... and how! It was kind of like the Mash movie or TV series... lots of stuff going on... lots not "legal".
Our TDYs were usually 35 days or so, but I "sent" my married replacement back home when he got there, and I stayed over 70 days, starting with the day before Tet. I was lucky that I didn't get a reprimand or something for doing that, but I was young, and I wanted to be there more than he did.:D

OOPS! Off topic, I guess.:o
I didn't have much more training than firing the M-1 carbine at paper targets(no hearing protection provided back then) and what little hand-to-hand training we were "shown" more or less in Air Crew Survival Training at Fairchild AFB in Washington State, Bawanna'.:D That was a lot of fun in March '67 -- cold as hell and treacherous for night treks in deep crusty snow without snowshoes. "Concentration Camp" was no fun... after crawling a mile or so(?) in the obstacle course at night over frozen ground and through b00by traps and barbed wire, we were "captured" and got to be P.O.W.s for a day or so. No waterboarding, but some guys broke under the "interrogation" tactics employed by the sadistic "enemy" guards. After the "crawl" we got bags over our heads and had a lot of "fun" being lead around in the dark and playing "crack the whip" while trying to hold onto your buddy in front of you. When you weren't interrogated or being tortured (crammed in increasingly smaller "boxes" by yourself) we were kept separately in concrete-floored concrete shower-sized "cells about 4 feet square -- not big enough to stretch out on the cold floor from corner to corner. The guards came by often to keep you from lying down and trying to sleep -- lots of fun. If you were an officer or in the chain of command, you got a lot more attention -- the "pit" or mock "firing squad executions", etc.

I think that training has gotten a lot more intense over the years at those "Survival" or Escape and Evasion courses, and I'm sure that waterboarding became a part of that for some special ops trainees. You get training to resist interrogation and provided some kind of cover stories in case you could no longer resist talking.

Okay... I just can't stop yapping or move to a more appropriate part of this forum.:o I wasn't a hero, nor was I trained in combat, but I did participate as a kind of "target" in the Southeast Asian Games and got to see a lot of sh!t and get shot at, though not as a "primary" target. And the only wound I received was after discharge from the Air Force and self-inflicted while trying to emulate my hero Clint Eastwood from the Fistful of Dollars trilogy, which I've already related for your amusement I've since found out the "fast draw" guys use wax bullets and have steel lined holsters... and a little more sense than I've demonstrated.:D

Dang, it's late... or early in the morning... here -- almost 6 AM. I'll shut up and see about trying to get some more nappy time before wifey gets up in about 3 hours!

Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

Feel free to drift off topic on this sort of stuff. I think just being over there qualifies you for hero status. I have no first hand experience myself but heard numerous times it wasn't a fun place.

[jeep45238]

Thanks, and thanks to Mike. It's nice to train in all the little details, but you need to think about all the things and how they fit together.

Not too long ago "they"(60 Minutes or 20/20, or something like that) televised a kind of training test for college students where they put one or two(?) at a time in a "classroom" (with other students who weren't armed) with a weapon that fired something -- blanks or some kind of squib loads... I don't remember, but the big thing was how people reacted to a gunman busting in and starting to shoot everyone. Most forgot the first thing or didn't know it -- survival tactics... like DUCKING, using cover. Not too many were even able to draw their weapon before getting shot. Standing up in the middle of the classroom, fumbling for your weapon puts you at the top of the class... kind of like raising your arm and getting attention. One of the guys just stood there and tried to draw his weapon THROUGH the T-shirt... he got nailed. Some of it is "freezing"... deer in the headlights kind of thing.


Don't forget that they were using a firearms instructor for the local PD as the shooter, who knew exactly where the student with the gun would be sitting, and he shot at nobody but the student with the gun - did a beeline for them every time. None of the students had firearms instruction except for some hot shot with his 'airsoft' guns.



In regards to being in a gun fight - I've came too damn close in my own neighborhood. I hope I never repeat it.


The Air Force survival thing is interesting - they've been trying to recruit me for about 4 months to be an SERE instructor after the recruiter heard what I did for fun as a kid during the summers out in the boonies. A LOT of people can't hack it with gear provided - let alone living off the land. I'll be the first to tell you though - don't eat leeches unless you absolutely have to. They taste horrible, not to mention the stuff they can carry.