Loading help please!

[drewtaylor21]

Hi guys,

I'm having trouble finding the data I'm looking for and thought I'd check in here and see if anyone could help me out.

Here's what I'm working on:

Hornady 9mm luger 124 grain FMJ
5.8 grains blue dot powder
CCI 500 primers

My reloading manual gives a C.O.L. of 1.150" for these bullets...from my understanding that should be the max COL, correct? I am looking for a minimum COL especially, just to be sure I am on the safe side. I can't seem to find minimum COL data anywhere. I just made up 10 rounds and they all passed the plunk test, but they seem a bit on the small side....right around 1.10"

Am I safe with that load data and that COL? Anybody know where to find minimum COL?

THANKS!

[drewtaylor21]

just found this:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=124&shellid=23&bulletid=26

I am still figuring out all the details of reloading, fyi, but my manual lists a max load of 6.6 grains Blue dot for the Hornady 124 grain FMJ. Is the Alliant info so much higher due to the fact that they are using HPs?

[DLButler]

Here is a picture I took from Loaddata.com, it is the basic size for all 9mm Lugers. I checked it against all 124gr loads supplied and it was the same picture. This actually came from an Alliant Blue Dot/Hornady load page.

http://www.loaddata.com/images/database/9mm%20Parabellum%20(Lugar)27.gif

[CJB]

I dont think the "min" in that drawing is correct by SAAMI specs, but the "max" is. Usually SAAMI holds it to about a .020 or so variance, and that shows .074 - pretty big spread.

Then again - you have to consider hollow point ammo... which is shorter, but must be seated as if it had a full jacket.

[downtownv]

I would call the powder maker, as they have the most influence on the process. Alliant helped me when Lyman's Manual didn't list my 40 cal load.

[DLButler]

The picture information is, I believe, the same as I have in my Lee loading manual.

[AIRret]

Here is a picture I took from Loaddata.com, it is the basic size for all 9mm Lugers. I checked it against all 124gr loads supplied and it was the same picture. This actually came from an Alliant Blue Dot/Hornady load page.

http://www.loaddata.com/images/database/9mm%20Parabellum%20(Lugar)27.gif

Thanks for posting that picture. My Husband and I shot our second batch of reloads yesterday and we had better accuracy than the cheapest federal 9mm.
How FUN is THAT!!!!

[muggsy]

The Max OAL is the maximum length at which the bullet will function properly in the guns magazine. I generally seat my bullets .010 below maximum OAL. It's worked for me since the '70s.

[Ikeo74]

Hi guys,

I'm having trouble finding the data I'm looking for and thought I'd check in here and see if anyone could help me out.

Here's what I'm working on:

Hornady 9mm luger 124 grain FMJ
5.8 grains blue dot powder
CCI 500 primers

My reloading manual gives a C.O.L. of 1.150" for these bullets...from my understanding that should be the max COL, correct? I am looking for a minimum COL especially, just to be sure I am on the safe side. I can't seem to find minimum COL data anywhere. I just made up 10 rounds and they all passed the plunk test, but they seem a bit on the small side....right around 1.10"

Am I safe with that load data and that COL? Anybody know where to find minimum COL?

THANKS!
When load data only shows 1 OAL setting, It is always "MIN", It it shows 2 it is MIN & MAX. 1.150 is Min for that Exact Bullet. Different bullet shapes and weights will have different OALs. If your bullet is the same shape and weight as the 1 in the load data you can use that load data's OAL. If it is a differend shape you will need to fing data for a bullet that matches wt and shape of yours. Max OALs are usually too long to function in a Kahr Pistol. Your load @ 1.100 is too short for the bullet you are loading and is not recommended to use for that bullet. Never load a bullet below min listed OAL in your load data. You need to read your loading manual again.
This is a safety issue. When only 1 powder charge is listed (in manufacture's data) it is always "MAX" load. Most manufactures data show both min and max for the powder listed and also show velosities for the charge.

[Ikeo74]

OK, I looked up your load in my older Hornady 3rd Edition loading manual. It shows: 124 gr FMJ Blue dot range from 6.0 to 7.7 (newer books show a smaller range than this) OAL shown = 1.040 Min. (this is old data)

Taking this info into consideration your of 1.10 for that identical bullet is safe. However the charge of 5.8 is actually (low) for blue dot and probabaly will not cycle your Kahr gun. It will most likely eject but not load the next round. To get reliable cycling you will need a charge of 6.5 to 7.0 Shoot the 10 you loaded to see if they cycle, I doubt that they will.
I suggest that someone on the forum with a newer Hornady Manual post more current data as they have lowered recommended charge weights for safety reasons. (liabilities)

[OldLincoln]

I had similar questions when I couldn't find the exact info and ended up measuring the OL of a factory round. If that fits yours should fit. If your gun is rated for +P (Kahrs are), then you have more security from overpressure. I loaded 3 mags and marked them for identity, 1 was a couple grains below midway, 1 was midway, 1 was a couple grains above. I could tell the difference and chose the one I likes best. I wrote the recipe down and taped it to my reloading station and haven't varied it since.

[drewtaylor21]

OK, I looked up your load in my older Hornady 3rd Edition loading manual. It shows: 124 gr FMJ Blue dot range from 6.0 to 7.7 (newer books show a smaller range than this) OAL shown = 1.040 Min. (this is old data)

Taking this info into consideration your of 1.10 for that identical bullet is safe. However the charge of 5.8 is actually (low) for blue dot and probabaly will not cycle your Kahr gun. It will most likely eject but not load the next round. To get reliable cycling you will need a charge of 6.5 to 7.0 Shoot the 10 you loaded to see if they cycle, I doubt that they will.
I suggest that someone on the forum with a newer Hornady Manual post more current data as they have lowered recommended charge weights for safety reasons. (liabilities)
Ikeo,

So it looks like 1.10" is safe, but I will adjust my COL out to 1.150" for the rest of the batch I'm making. It seems odd to me that 1.150 is the minimum though, when SAAMI max is 1.169...seems like there's not much room between min and max there you know what I mean?

Also, you raised another point thought with the powder charges that I'm now confused about...

My reloading book lists the max charge for Blue Dot (hornady 124 gr FM-RN) at 6.6 grains, while Alliant's website lists a max load of 7.9 grains using Blue Dot. The bullet Alliant referenced was a 124 grain Speer GDHP though, which is not the bullet I'm using. Should I stick with the Hornady bullet load info (max 6.6) and try that out first and work up from there?

I appreciate your help!

[Ikeo74]

Ikeo,

So it looks like 1.10" is safe, but I will adjust my COL out to 1.150" for the rest of the batch I'm making. It seems odd to me that 1.150 is the minimum though, when SAAMI max is 1.169...seems like there's not much room between min and max there you know what I mean?

Also, you raised another point thought with the powder charges that I'm now confused about...

My reloading book lists the max charge for Blue Dot (hornady 124 gr FM-RN) at 6.6 grains, while Alliant's website lists a max load of 7.9 grains using Blue Dot. The bullet Alliant referenced was a 124 grain Speer GDHP though, which is not the bullet I'm using. Should I stick with the Hornady bullet load info (max 6.6) and try that out first and work up from there?

I appreciate your help!
Start with a mid range load like 6.5 or 6.6, load some and shoot them to see how they work in your gun. Do not load any at max levels until you have a lot more loading experiance. Millde of the book recommedations is a good starting point.

[drewtaylor21]

Start with a mid range load like 6.5 or 6.6, load some and shoot them to see how they work in your gun. Do not load any at max levels until you have a lot more loading experiance. Millde of the book recommedations is a good starting point.
I think that's what I'm confused about though....the levels are so different from source to source that I'm not sure where to start.

Alliant: 7.9 grains listed as max (they suggest taking 10% off to start, which would be a range of 7.1 to 7.9)

Hornady: 4.8 to 6.6 listed range for this bullet and powder.

So the max from hornady isn't even in the range of min to max for Alliant, thus my conundrum! Where to settle on "middle ground."

..........

[Ikeo74]

I think that's what I'm confused about though....the levels are so different from source to source that I'm not sure where to start.

Alliant: 7.9 grains listed as max (they suggest taking 10% off to start, which would be a range of 7.1 to 7.9)

Hornady: 4.8 to 6.6 listed range for this bullet and powder.

So the max from hornady isn't even in the range of min to max for Alliant, thus my conundrum! Where to settle on "middle ground."

..........
1st choice would be the powder manufacture's load data for middle ground, but when you do that you must use the same components that they show in the charge data or a bullet that is exactually the same shape, composition and weight.
2nd choice would be load data from the bullet manufacturer from the source that manufactured the bullet you are loading, ie Hornady info for Hornady bullets. Nosler information for Nosler bullets.

[Ikeo74]

I think that's what I'm confused about though....the levels are so different from source to source that I'm not sure where to start.

Alliant: 7.9 grains listed as max (they suggest taking 10% off to start, which would be a range of 7.1 to 7.9)

Hornady: 4.8 to 6.6 listed range for this bullet and powder.

So the max from hornady isn't even in the range of min to max for Alliant, thus my conundrum! Where to settle on "middle ground."

..........
My Hornady 3rd edition shows for that exact bullet 9 mm 124 gr fmj @ 6.0 to 7.7 gr Blue Dot Half way in the middle would be 6.8 gr, start there or a little lighter. Alliant data is using a different manufacturers bullet. (speer)

[drewtaylor21]

Ok thanks again!