Gun control: Tracing a firearm is a low-tech process

[yqtszhj]

Very interesting reading on tracing firearms. Anyone know anything from personal experience that contradicts this?

I can tell you about government call tracing and "wire taps" but not firearm tracing.

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2013/01/gun_control_tracing_a_firearm.html

[Scoundrel]

That was an interesting read, thank you.

I especially liked the bit about the toilet paper.

[muggsy]

Sounds about right to me. The Dems have been after defacto gun registration for a long time. That's why there's a push to close the so called "gun show loop hole". A national data base of who owns what is the first step toward gun confiscation.

[Bawanna]

Tracing a gun to a person is tough, but tracing a persons guns is easy. I'm not sure if that's the case in all states but in Washington a name and date of birth will tell me every legally purchased gun that was bought from a dealer.

I've had guys come in to report guns stolen but didn't know the serial number. If they bought it in a shop and filled out paperwork I can get it in about a minute.

[Scoundrel]

I've had guys come in to report guns stolen but didn't know the serial number. If they bought it in a shop and filled out paperwork I can get it in about a minute.

That's kinda scary. Goes against what the no-national-database folks are all about.

[Bawanna]

It is a bit. There are lots of rules that apply. Can't just look people up for grins or without a good reason.

I can only keep handgun transfer paperwork for 20 days and then it has to be destroyed. I'm diligent about doing that also.

I'm sure they keep records of how many NICS checks are applied for individuals and avoid duplications. Sometimes a dealer will mistakenly do their own like when you dont have a permit. I will use their number rather than run it again so it doesn't look like another purchase.

It is right handy for getting serial numbers so the gun can be entered as stolen though. Otherwise theres virtually no chance of getting it back.

[Scoundrel]

It is a bit. There are lots of rules that apply. Can't just look people up for grins or without a good reason.

That assumes someone is following the rules.

"I don’t have time to play this constitutional bullshit with you. We’re going to break your door in, and you’re going to have to pay for a new door."

[Bawanna]

That assumes someone is following the rules.

"I don’t have time to play this constitutional bullshit with you. We’re going to break your door in, and you’re going to have to pay for a new door."

Exactamundo Scoundrel. No reason to use the data base because they are following the rule or they wouldn't have a firearm.
It's the criminals who don't follow the rules that need the door kicking and who cares who pays for it.

We had a complaint about that just this morning. Dirt bag er I mean model citizen claiming the local gestapo damaged his door. I tried diligently to act sympathetic.

[AJBert]

This "kinda" goes along the lines of DNA samples that all service members submit to. Started about 15 years ago, give or take. We were told that ONLY the DoD would have access to the data base of our DNA for the soul purpose of identifying us and our body parts.

So far as I know, our DNA has never been released. Many in law enforcement want access to this data base, for obvious reasons, but our DNA was not submitted to help in a crime.

I am still worried that the gub'mint has my DNA on record, not that I ever plan on committing any crime that it would be needed in to help solve, but one never knows what some politician down the road will overturn "to save the children".

[Scoundrel]

Yeah, our social security numbers weren't supposed to be used for anything else either, but hey, a unique number assigned to every US citizen? Who can pass THAT up?

[KCAutoBob]

What's up in CA? Some of the hardest, most tight-fisted, stringent, downright fanatically oriented gun laws in the country, not to mention lots of 'em, and so what? Here's where crazies, criminals, gang-bangers, and other non-law abiding "citizens" have guns and, so what?
Check this story out. It's for real-- http://www.heraldandnews.com/members/news/inside/article_15710f94-6b3b-11e2-8094-0019bb2963f4.html
All these gun laws on the books, and they're saying 'well, we need more money'. And they know damned well who's illegally got these guns but nothing's done about it. Well, obviously, we need more laws... (and taxes)
Hey, folks only in the Peoples Republic Of Kalifornia....
P.S.; I think they put stuff in the water. :rolleyes:

[JustinN]

Here in Missouri if I ran a gun serial number through MULES, if it hadn't been reported stolen it just came back not on file. Never tried to trace one past that, would just toss it in property as unknown owner.

That being said, my cousin was the gun manager at the Bass Pro in Branson, MO. She told me they've had to help with a few gun traces and it basically runs like this. A high profile/important crime etc happens and they get the gun from it. They can go to that manufacturer with the serial number (assuming it has one) and ask where they sold it. The manufacturer directs them to the distributor, who directs them to the store/shop/whatever. The store can then say "we sold it to xxxx", and they can go to that person (just like the article says). At that point the trail can go dry, but most people can say who it went to.

Anytime I did a Face to Face sale with someone I didn't know I usually got a look at their ID, showed them mine, and wrote up a quick bill of sale we each signed. Had our names, DOB, ID#, and gun description/serial number. That way if it ever came back to me I could say "I sold it to such and such, see" OR if something ever happened and they were caught with a gun that was reported stolen, they could prove where they got it.

[Armybrat]

I ran across this excellent point on a sportsboard gun registration discussion:


The government has no more right to keep a record of what firearms law-abiding citizens own that it does to keep a record of how they voted.

[KCAutoBob]

The question I have is this- if you've got the serial number of a gun to trace, you must have the gun to get that serial number off of it. If you've got the gun what value is there in tracing the sales path of that gun, except to show who 'legally' owned the gun? That doesn't necessarily prove that possession equals the commission of the crime (if crime is involved), only 'legal' ownership of the gun. If you follow what I'm trying to get at... JustinN's bill of sale seems adequate and appropriate for proof of ownership. Registration sort of starts a chain of logic which says if you own the gun, you must be some sort of a criminal, or will ultimately be one. Which justifies gun registration!

[Scoundrel]

If you've got the gun what value is there in tracing the sales path of that gun, except to show who 'legally' owned the gun? That doesn't necessarily prove that possession equals the commission of the crime (if crime is involved), only 'legal' ownership of the gun.

If you can make a list of owners, you at least have a starting point. If you question each of those owners, and find one that doesn't have a solid alibi, you can dig deeper and find out if there is more evidence about that person and the crime.

Just because someone was the legal owner doesn't mean they didn't do it.

That's their thinking anyway. There may be other leads, too. Tracing the gun is just one source of leads.