Zimmerman defense fund is running dry

[Scoundrel]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/30/16775581-george-zimmerman-out-of-money-needs-donations-attorneys-say?lite

This is how the, $314,099.07 raised by the defense fund has been spent, according to the site:
Bail bond - $95,000
Household/living expenses - $61,747.54
Security - $56,100.00
Law firm support and infrastructure - $40,647.64
Case-related expenses - $35,588.07
PayPal and fund management fees - $7,924.22
Other expenses - $3,201.04

I'd like to see a little more granular breakdown of how those funds were spent, if I was going to contribute.

I totally get that security is going to be rough, to keep vigilantes at bay, but I'm curious about what the rest of those things entail.

[newCW45guy]

Household/living expenses can be a big thing when you can't go home or even out in public.

[downtownv]

Ironic, that the "activists", don't even mention this anymore.... This fell right off the radar!
It doesn't appear that anyones living large looking at these numbers.

[muggsy]

I've got a few bucks to spare. I'll stand up for him. How about the rest of you?

[Sage]

Knowing lawyers they will find a way to spend whatever funds are available then ask for more.

[Bawanna]

I've got a few bucks to spare. I'll stand up for him. How about the rest of you?

I'm in, soon as I can find a few bucks. All BS from the get go. Never should have been a charge in the first place.

The locals did it right.

[Tinman507]

I'm in as long as NRA is also contributing.
I'm all about the NRA but I'd like to see them with a little more skin in this game.

[getsome]

The news this morning said Zimmerman's legal team is trying to move the trial out to November to better prepare their case....Not sure what thats all about because if they haven't gotten all the evidence needed together in a years time to show it was a legal shoot and self defense I don't see what waiting another 10 months will do but cost him lots more money.....

[Bawanna]

If they put it off long enough it will be all but forgotten which is as it should be.

What they need to do is have the trial soon without the libtard media even knowing about it. Of course all the instigators will hate that they don't get their moment of glory in front of the cameras but might tone down the inevitable riots and race wars.

This should have been over and done with in 30 days. Done deal, what a bunch of hocus pocus.

[knkali]

My eyebrows raised when I saw the breakdown of $ spent. Guess it is reasonable. Not 100% sure though.

I think more time before trial is to his benefit. The public is still crazy with anti gun so things need to settle down before putting this guy on trial.

It was mentioned that a member want the NRA to contribute to his defense fund. Not sure why they should nor do I want my NRA funding going toward his defense. I contribute to the NRA for political leverage and nothing more. I do not think my NRA should be involved in criminal defense funding unless it is in my defense of course.

[Tinman507]

I suppose I want the NRA involved because the US DOJ has made it a political issue. I want the playing field as leveled as is possible.

[Bawanna]

I agree. This is no longer about the facts and the incident, it's pure political grandstanding and the outcome could impact all of us very deeply. Not because of the facts or the incident but what the political players, the Sharptons, the Jesse Jackson's etc make it up to be.

Remember we got Travons dad in the White House so fair is not in the equation.

[knkali]

if you look at a gun, talk about a gun, own a gun or shoot a gun, it is a political thing. Has been for many years and seemingly will be for many more years to come. The only people that should help this guy is you and me if so inclined. A free man after trial is the best political statement that can be made but the NRA is not in a position to help that. In fact, distance from the NRA is probably a better position to help Zimr. The presence of the NRA could be inflamatory and over reaching in this case.

[muggsy]

The NRA has been involved in many legal cases. Heller being the most recent. I'm sure that they're involved in this case. Stand your ground is one of the NRA's children. Castle Doctrine is another along with concealed carry. I'd be shocked if the NRA wasn't involved.

[knkali]

The NRA has been involved in many legal cases. Heller being the most recent. I'm sure that they're involved in this case. Stand your ground is one of the NRA's children. Castle Doctrine is another along with concealed carry. I'd be shocked if the NRA wasn't involved.

if they are, they are behind the scenes and at what capacity? Do you really think the NRA is funding his legal team? If not, then how are they supporting him? What Zimr needs is lots of money right now.

[olympicmotorcars]

I am wondering about the paypal charge for almost 8000 dollars?

[Scoundrel]

That's easiest to explain: Paypal takes a percentage of donations submitted using their service.

That bring up an interesting topic though. Paypal is very anti-gun and has been known to cancel accounts and not return funds when gun purchases are made through their service. So are they cool with the Zimmerman fund, and if so, why?

[Harrylee]

IT’ funny how this whole thing disappeared with the Aurora and Newtown going on, I don’t under stand what it takes to defend your self. As far as I can see from all this he was keeping an eye on him wasn’t tracking with gun out. He got sucker punched, his nose got broke knocked to the ground and had his head smashed on the sidewalk. My god what else do you have to go thru before your pull out the last resort. If I saw someone walking around my neighbors house that didn’t belong there I would definitely be over there at distance but be known. Hey this is where we live. This should have never got the far! And with all this it was stand your ground state, this guy should’ve been home along time ago. Seems like a justified shoot to me, If someone was coming and you with a knife it’s O K, but broken nose and head pounded on the sidewalk NOT OK? That’s plain wrong. There was a story awhile back a 65 year old man was riding his bike thru the park and three kids jumped him and started to beat the living he!! Out of him pulled out his gun shot two of them. This is the kind of thing that just piss all of us off, here’s the link to the 65 year old http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=361731

[knkali]

Zimmr's motion for a delay of trial was declined BTW.

[Popeye]

I'll be honest with my feeling towards this case. IMO this was a case of two knuckleheads that ran across each others paths one night. One was a punk who thought he was a bad ***. The other was an overzealous gun owner cop wanna be who put himself in a no win situation and should have let the cops handle it. Know one was being harmed at the time. One walked away and went to jail the other is no longer with us. With both parties all I can say is play stupid games win stupid prizes.

If I thought Zimmerman was 100%in the right I'd back him, but that's not the case here. At least in my mind it isn't. It's just a sad story of two knuckleheads with no winners.

[knkali]

I'll be honest with my feeling towards this case. IMO this was a case of two knuckleheads that ran across each others paths one night. One was a punk who thought he was a bad ***. The other was an overzealous gun owner cop wanna be who put himself in a no win situation and should have let the cops handle it. Know one was being harmed at the time. One walked away and went to jail the other is no longer with us. With both parties all I can say is play stupid games win stupid prizes.

If I thought Zimmerman was 100%in the right I'd back him, but that's not the case here. At least in my mind it isn't. It's just a sad story of two knuckleheads with no winners.

Popeye, lets keep that thought and revisit it as the trial unfolds. Your perception could be founded in your possible belief that the police have an obligation to save life and or there is an obligation to prevent crime when they are not so obligated. Therefore it is up to the citizen for the aforementioned and not on the police.

[Bawanna]

Popeye, lets keep that thought and revisit it as the trial unfolds. Your perception could be founded in your possible belief that the police have an obligation to save life and or there is an obligation to prevent crime when they are not so obligated. Therefore it is up to the citizen for the aforementioned and not on the police.

Sadly the police already made the right call, turned him loose without charging calling it justified. Now it's on a higher plain. Political grand standing and what he did is no longer relevant.

Now would be a good time to have the trial while all the big players are busy with the school shooting and gun banning and such. Kind of spread the hemroids around and they won't bother one person quite so bad.

[KoolBreeze]

Sadly the police already made the right call, turned him loose without charging calling it justified. Now it's on a higher plain. Political grand standing and what he did is no longer relevant.

Now would be a good time to have the trial while all the big players are busy with the school shooting and gun banning and such. Kind of spread the hemroids around and they won't bother one person quite so bad.

My thoughts exactly. It's really a shame that it has gone as far as it has.

[JimC]

I'll be honest with my feeling towards this case. IMO this was a case of two knuckleheads that ran across each others paths one night. One was a punk who thought he was a bad ***. The other was an overzealous gun owner cop wanna be who put himself in a no win situation and should have let the cops handle it. Know one was being harmed at the time. One walked away and went to jail the other is no longer with us. With both parties all I can say is play stupid games win stupid prizes.

If I thought Zimmerman was 100%in the right I'd back him, but that's not the case here. At least in my mind it isn't. It's just a sad story of two knuckleheads with no winners.

Exactly!!! Popeye, you hit the nail squarely on the head.

[Popeye]

Your perception could be founded in your possible belief that the police have an obligation to save life and or there is an obligation to prevent crime when they are not so obligated. Therefore it is up to the citizen for the aforementioned and not on the police.

What???
How in the world should it be Joe citizen obligation to stop a crime who is not getting paid or trained to protect anyone and not the cops? Who are both trained and paid.
I'll say it right now if someone is breaking into my neighbors home I'm calling the cops. My obligation is to my family not my neighbors insured property. If the Popo doesn't respond to the call well then it to bad for my neighbor and his insurance company.. My Gun permit says for SD it does not say I'm obligated to protect anyone but myself and my family and my property. Thank God PA. has the castle doctrine. If I choose to get envolved if someone is being sliced up with a knife, then I have to be ready to pay the consequences for my actions right or wrong. I'm ok with pulling my gun and using it in a situation of that magnitude. I'm well aware that there is lawyer out there that will try to make me out to be the bad guy. Zimmerman should have know this, and if he didn't well then maybe he shouldn't have been carrying a gun in the first place. Like I said sad story of two knuckleheads.

[HarleyJack]

What???
How in the world should it be Joe citizen obligation to stop a crime who is not getting paid or trained to protect anyone and not the cops? Who are both trained and paid.
I'll say it right now if someone is breaking into my neighbors home I'm calling the cops. My obligation is to my family not my neighbors insured property. If the Popo doesn't respond to the call well then it to bad for my neighbor and his insurance company.. My Gun permit says for SD it does not say I'm obligated to protect anyone but myself and my family and my property. Thank God PA. has the castle doctrine. If I choose to get envolved if someone is being sliced up with a knife, then I have to be ready to pay the consequences for my actions right or wrong. I'm ok with pulling my gun and using it in a situation of that magnitude. I'm well aware that there is lawyer out there that will try to make me out to be the bad guy. Zimmerman should have know this, and if he didn't well then maybe he shouldn't have been carrying a gun in the first place. Like I said sad story of two knuckleheads.

Completely agree.

[HarleyJack]

Just my opinion, but I think it's stupid for the pro gun community to hitch it's wagon to this idiot Zimmerman. He certainly doesn't represent me.

[JimC]

Just my opinion, but I think it's stupid for the pro gun community to hitch it's wagon to this idiot Zimmerman. He certainly doesn't represent me.

Me either! I want as much distance between him and myself that I can get.

[JimC]

What???
How in the world should it be Joe citizen obligation to stop a crime who is not getting paid or trained to protect anyone and not the cops? Who are both trained and paid.
I'll say it right now if someone is breaking into my neighbors home I'm calling the cops. My obligation is to my family not my neighbors insured property. If the Popo doesn't respond to the call well then it to bad for my neighbor and his insurance company.. My Gun permit says for SD it does not say I'm obligated to protect anyone but myself and my family and my property. Thank God PA. has the castle doctrine. If I choose to get envolved if someone is being sliced up with a knife, then I have to be ready to pay the consequences for my actions right or wrong. I'm ok with pulling my gun and using it in a situation of that magnitude. I'm well aware that there is lawyer out there that will try to make me out to be the bad guy. Zimmerman should have know this, and if he didn't well then maybe he shouldn't have been carrying a gun in the first place. Like I said sad story of two knuckleheads.

Couldn't have said better myself.
I gave up being responsible for others the day I retired from LE...almost 16 years ago now.
I carry to defend myself and my wife IF required. ;)

[knkali]

What???
How in the world should it be Joe citizen obligation to stop a crime who is not getting paid or trained to protect anyone and not the cops? Who are both trained and paid.
I'll say it right now if someone is breaking into my neighbors home I'm calling the cops. My obligation is to my family not my neighbors insured property. If the Popo doesn't respond to the call well then it to bad for my neighbor and his insurance company.. My Gun permit says for SD it does not say I'm obligated to protect anyone but myself and my family and my property. Thank God PA. has the castle doctrine. If I choose to get involved if someone is being sliced up with a knife, then I have to be ready to pay the consequences for my actions right or wrong. I'm ok with pulling my gun and using it in a situation of that magnitude. I'm well aware that there is lawyer out there that will try to make me out to be the bad guy. Zimmerman should have know this, and if he didn't well then maybe he shouldn't have been carrying a gun in the first place. Like I said sad story of two knuckleheads.

I am not making a judgment on whether Zimmr is guilty or innocent. Instead, I am making the point that the police are not under any obligation to protect life and property. Ultimately you are. Think about it. If the police were obligated, then they could be sued when someone is robbed or killed.
http://www.disinfo.com/2010/03/the-police-arent-legally-obligated-to-protect-you/

Want me to give you more to show that the police are not obligated to protect you?
Just food for thought. What if Zimmr stopped a guy, had the lethal encounter and in the backpack there was duct tape and a gun? Also the guy had a criminal history of rape and assault. Would your thoughts about Zimmr be different?

It is easy to call the police and "let someone else" handle the situation. It is safe and you feel like you did something. Unfortunately the police cant be there all the time to thwart crime. Mostly they get to crime scenes after the fact and are under no obligation to do otherwise. I am not saying that people should be ready to kill at the slightest hint of criminal activity, but getting involved with a loud "Hey, I am calling the police" or "who are you" when the guy is prowling around you neighbors yard can make a huge difference in possible outcomes. Calling the police, shutting your blinds and resting well knowing the insurance Joe's insurance will handle the situation is not enough. Dont you think it is time that we start taking care of each other and, of course, taking responsibility of our own personal protection?

[Tinman507]

I do agree with Popeye that this is 2 knuckleheads who's lives are changed forever.

However......

Because Zimmerman has now become a USDOJ Object lesson and Political pawn, I think it behooves all of us to get involved. Under any other rational thought process, he would have gotten off or never been charged. this ramped up because of political agendas, nothing more. If this is allowed to go unchallenged, you or I could be next.

[MikeyKahr]

Couldn't have said better myself.
I gave up being responsible for others the day I retired from LE...almost 16 years ago now.
I carry to defend myself and my wife IF required. ;)

Someone's not getting dinner tonight. I'm with Popeye on this too.

[knkali]

funny, many here are about defending liberty and fighting the good fight and people taking responsibility, and not counting or relying on the government to have our best interests in mind. However, when called upon to get involved at a basic level for the protection of life and property of others(without lethal force) the sentiment is that it is the responsibility of someone else to do so. I always say that if we cannot govern ourselves we will always rely and need someone else to do it for us. Golden rule goes both ways. Next time you leave your home vacant for a vacation, do you call the local police and let them know you will be away and to pay extra attention to your property or do you ask a neighbor to keep an eye on things while you are away. If you call upon a neighbor then deep inside you do agree with me.

[getsome]

This case is very interesting for a couple of reasons....Unfortunately in the world we live in today it is in one's best interest to be a neighborhood watchman so long as the neighborhood stops at your property line and the street but if you or your family are attacked either at home or in public then things change and it's game on....

This IS a very important case for us CCW folks and IMPO yes Zimmerman was a fool to be armed and following anyone, that IS the job of the Police but he did so and whatever his reasons or anyone else's personal opinion here these are the cold hard facts we must look at....

First whatever happenened up to the time that Travon's fist hit Zimmerman's face doesn't matter diddly squat....Once fist touched face everything changed and the issue is if you are leagally CCW and a much larger stronger person attacks you and has you down on the ground trying to kill you and you are in fear of losing your life why would it not be your legal right to use deadly force to stop the situation under the stand your ground law???...Zimmerman didn't know if Travon was armed with a knife or firearm and didn't have time to worry about it becasuse he was about to become unconscious from having his head caved in so he did what anyone else here would have done and stopped it and THAT is the ONLY thing the courts need to look at....

Second, This is not a national news case....Shootings go on every day in this country and barely make the local paper....What makes this case newsworthy is that an armed white man killed a black teenager...If it had been a black man killing a white teenager or a black man killing another black teenager then no big deal!!!!....That folks is the sorry state of what makes this case VERY important if you happen to be white and carry a gun for self defense and you must be aware of the consequences and be ready to defend yourself not only against a gang banger street thug but also against Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Eric Holder and even the President of the United States because after all that could have been his son....So there I said it, Ban me if you want but the truth is the truth and sometimes the truth hurts!!!
















....

[jocko]

black on black news media doesn't give it 5th page coverage.
white on white, never makes the papers even
black on white. it mihgt bet 5th page coverage..
white on black, gets front pade,, all liberal TV stations.

Just the way it is. They won't convict him. U can call zimmerman a pretend wanna be cop, doeksn'tmake any difference, He had the right todo what he did, marginal but he willbe set free. Broke as hell the rest of his life, but free. And Al Sharpton and Jesse J can then crawl back in their hole(and suck on shwanna brawley) and wait for anutter white on black killing and spring back up again. Sooner than later, thy might even win one for the gipper. Trevor Martin was not a poster boy, That will come out big time.

nope getsome, if they ban u,they gotta take me along with u for ur right on all counts.

I really thinks he needs some outside financial help in his case. hell the government is throwing all OUR money to convict Zimmerman for killing obummers mythical pretend son...

[Harrylee]

getsome BRAVO

[jocko]

I'll be honest with my feeling towards this case. IMO this was a case of two knuckleheads that ran across each others paths one night. One was a punk who thought he was a bad ***. The other was an overzealous gun owner cop wanna be who put himself in a no win situation and should have let the cops handle it. Know one was being harmed at the time. One walked away and went to jail the other is no longer with us. With both parties all I can say is play stupid games win stupid prizes.

If I thought Zimmerman was 100%in the right I'd back him, but that's not the case here. At least in my mind it isn't. It's just a sad story of two knuckleheads with no winners.

is always 20-20. no doubt aboutthat. But I never seen one photo of Trevor beaten all over the face,like Ihave with Zimmerman. Once the fight started Florida law preceded COMMON SENSE, IMO. Trust me, Iam 69, if u beat on me,more than likely ur gonna get shot. I have no clue as to why ur beatin onme or what comes after the beating. Indiana law is very similar to Florida's law. I don't go looking for trouble like Zimmerman did either but IMO up untilTrevor attacked Zimmeramn NO LAWS WERE BROKEN..

again the fact is : WHITE ON BLACK Makes news big time and thatin itself pisses me off.

www.gzdefensefund.com/ send a check, by pass pay pal, theyhave raised over 300K since Jan of thisyear, nice kthread about tyhis fund and the need.

[JimC]

If Zimmerman had followed the instructions he was given and stayed where he was at his vehicle, instead of following the kid, we wouldn't be discusing any of this and the kid would still be alive and Zimmerman wouldn't be in the situation that he is.

Zimmerman was told that he couldn't be armed during his time as a citizen or crime watch volunteer but he chose to be.

Zimmerman is an as*&%$*!

[Glock23]

First whatever happenened up to the time that Travon's fist hit Zimmerman's face doesn't matter diddly squat....Once fist touched face everything changed and the issue is if you are leagally CCW and a much larger stronger person attacks you and has you down on the ground trying to kill you and you are in fear of losing your life why would it not be your legal right to use deadly force to stop the situation under the stand your ground law???......

Actually, what happened before the first punch was thrown is exactly what matters, and is a huge part of the case.

Laws like the stand your ground law apply to situations where you did not provoke the incident and are forced to defend yourself. He chose to ignore the advice given to not follow Treyvon. By continuing to follow and attempt confrontation, Zimm technically became the aggressor, regardless of who threw the first punch.

You cannot aggress against someone then choose to defend yourself with deadly force when it becomes apparent that you are going to lose.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Bawanna]

My final entry into this thread.

Zimmerman was carrying a POS Keltec, it wasn't like he had a real gun strapped on his hip like a security patrol, I think it was in his pocket.

He was doing his job of patrolling the neighborhood. In his place if I was told I could not carry a gun I would have not followed that rule either or I would not have done the patrol.

He was observing the poster child, from what I see not provoking or inciting a fight.
The poster boy apparently attacked, now Zimmerman goes from observation to defense mode, a whole new ball game. The dispatcher suggested but did not order and the dispatcher order would mean nothing really. Just a point of contact with no authority.

Picture in your mind if the poster boy had killed Zimmerman, where would all this be now. Al and company never would have come out of their hole, it clearly would have been self defense cause Zimmerman was watching him case houses or at the least trespassing on private property.

It's all moot now anyhow, the legal part of the thing is over with. Now it's all political and out of the common folks like us's hands.

[Scoundrel]

BTW, in case anyone's wondering, I am still following this thread that I started. I just haven't had anything more to say on the subject.

In my opinion, innocence or guilt, or "should have done" stuff is all water under the bridge, as Bawanna said.

What I am more interested in now is whether they actually hang this guy, and how badly his lawyers bleed him and anyone who donates money before it's finally done.

[Barth]

Crayon Gang Banger Skittles seemed to be ready, willing and able to
jump on someone and pound their head into the pavement.
If not that day? Then the next.
If not Zimmerman? Then whomever else pissed him off.

Zimmerman used poor judgment and will pay dearly.
But Crayon seemed destined for badness.

That's my "Jocko - Ban Me Now" appraisal of the situation.
http://sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon-martin-photo-media-george-zimmerman-photo-bias-sad-hill-news2.jpg

[Bawanna]

In my opinion his only poor judgement was he should have shot from the truck and saved the pain and suffering on himself.

I'm done here.

[knkali]

My final entry into this thread.

Zimmerman was carrying a POS Keltec, it wasn't like he had a real gun strapped on his hip like a security patrol, I think it was in his pocket.

He was doing his job of patrolling the neighborhood. In his place if I was told I could not carry a gun I would have not followed that rule either or I would not have done the patrol.

He was observing the poster child, from what I see not provoking or inciting a fight.
The poster boy apparently attacked, now Zimmerman goes from observation to defense mode, a whole new ball game. The dispatcher suggested but did not order and the dispatcher order would mean nothing really. Just a point of contact with no authority.

Picture in your mind if the poster boy had killed Zimmerman, where would all this be now. Al and company never would have come out of their hole, it clearly would have been self defense cause Zimmerman was watching him case houses or at the least trespassing on private property.

It's all moot now anyhow, the legal part of the thing is over with. Now it's all political and out of the common folks like us's hands.

I guess if we never say anything that even remotely questions anothers intent we will never run the risk of offending that person and consequently causing them to attack you? So asking someone who is walking my cul de sac at night and saying you are neighborhood watch and what are they doing here and do they need some help with something is such an agressive act that I am at risk of bodily injury? Since when has something that simple become such a calling out? Is this the reason why people just call the police and then close their blinds? Do rational, law abiding people have this kind of over the top reaction to this line of questioning? Is that the case here in the Zimmr trial?

[Bawanna]

That's why things are the way they are. Nobody wants to get involved. Look the other way. Call the police.

I'm a get involved kind of guy and these days that's a dangerous thing to be.

Every one can look at anything with different perspectives but this situation is blown completely out of proportion.

I think the race factor is muddying up the waters in a big way too.

Take out that factor and I truly believe everyone would think it was justified.

[knkali]

That's why things are the way they are. Nobody wants to get involved. Look the other way. Call the police.

I'm a get involved kind of guy and these days that's a dangerous thing to be.

Every one can look at anything with different perspectives but this situation is blown completely out of proportion.

I think the race factor is muddying up the waters in a big way too.

Take out that factor and I truly believe everyone would think it was justified.

Remember 1992 LA riots? The cops that beat King(2 white 1 hispanic) were found not guilty and the 4 guys that beat Reginald Denny known as the LA 4 resulted in only 3 getting minor charges. So the racial inequality you mentioned seems to go both ways.

[jocko]

again hindsight is 20-20. the caseis gonna be aboutthe law STAND URGROUND. I think zimmerman will win on that law. Stupid is as stupid does. One could alsosay that about poster boy to, when he decided to confront that individual with agression. He wa snot a paid neighbor hood watch person, so no one could have any real authority ove rhis right to carry. anyone in my neighhbor hood can callhim the neighborhood watch man, doesn't meanI approveof him . He cal callhimself the messiah to, It is his right.
Not sure the DOJ has a budget for this trial. they are out t hang Geroge, , Now on the other side kthey need money to defend him, they can't bleed him, he is broke, he has to rely of outside funding if it is avaialable. I am sure his attorney willbe asking the courts soon to provide some financial assistance towards this case3.

WHITE ON BLACK IS A NO NO..

[getsome]

That is the point here, If the Courts start issuing verdicts and punishments only on what will please the public and prevent a riot that will burn down down the city and not based on the facts and what is legally right in a case then our whole criminal justice system isn't worth spit....

Was it right and fair the four street punks got off with a wrist slap for caving in Reginald Denny's head for stopping at the wrong red light because if they had of convicted those 4 thugs the local good citizens would have finished burning down the rest of LA...

This is becoming mob rule kangaroo court...If they convict Zimmerman for anything other than bad judgement and he gets jail time to prevent the citizens from rioting again we'll know for sure!!!

[Popeye]

I've been around the block a few times and I've skated on the thin ice of right and wrong to many times in my life. I'm 66 years old and I can tell you I'm not going around the neighborhood like some sort of self proclaimed Wyatt Earp looking for BG,s. If I see something going on I'll alert the Popo or who ever answers the phone, but don't give me that nonsense that I'm obligated to do anything more. That's BS. Like I said my obligation first and foremost is to my family, not to rid the world of what I view as suspected BG's. There are people who look at me when I'm on my Harley who might first look at me like I'm some sort of BG. That doesn't mean I am. Most people when they get to know me find out I'm just the opposite. They also know that if you can't handle the truth then don't ask me the question. I don't ever feel the need to hitch my wagon to anyone elses because it's not what they believe. There is no way anyone is going to tell me what my obligations are in these types of situations ,then in the same breath tell me what the cops obligations are not in the same situation. That's total nonsense
You might get some fool like Zimmerman to believe that but don't try to sell me on that brand of idiotic BS. As mentioned by others just because Zimmerman had a gun doesn't mean he's any sort of brother in arms or hero to me.

[knkali]

I've been around the block a few times and I've skated on the thin ice of right and wrong to many times in my life. I'm 66 years old and I can tell you I'm not going around the neighborhood like some sort of self proclaimed Wyatt Earp looking for BG,s. If I see something going on I'll alert the Popo or who ever answers the phone, but don't give me that nonsense that I'm obligated to do anything more. That's BS. Like I said my obligation first and foremost is to my family, not to rid the world of what I view as suspected BG's. There are people who look at me when I'm on my Harley who might first look at me like I'm some sort of BG. That doesn't mean I am. Most people when they get to know me find out I'm just the opposite. They also know that if you can't handle the truth then don't ask me the question. I don't ever feel the need to hitch my wagon to anyone elses because it's not what they believe. There is no way anyone is going to tell me what my obligations are in these types of situations ,then in the same breath tell me what the cops obligations are not in the same situation. That's total nonsense
You might get some fool like Zimmerman to believe that but don't try to sell me on that brand of idiotic BS. As mentioned by others just because Zimmerman had a gun doesn't mean he's any sort of brother in arms or hero to me.

I think most of this post was directed to me so I will reply directly to it. Calling what I said BS and idiotic is offensive. I certainly feel you have the right to disagree; however, please do so without the name calling. I hope in the future we can have an exchange without this sort of degradation. As far as what the police are obligated to do or not do, I posted a link supporting the facts. If you want to ingnore them it is up to you.

[Bawanna]

I think I was a major recipient as well but be that as it may I think this cow has been milked.

Anyone offer up a reason we shouldn't just close this one and move on.

No rush, you have 15 seconds.

[Scoundrel]

I think we can all agree on these things:

1. It is a good idea to call the police when you suspect that a crime is being committed.
2. It takes the police way too long to respond when a crime is under way.
3. The police have, in many cases, stated that they do not accept responsibility for a failure to stop the crime, or make any guarantees that they will do so.
4. Just as sailors are obligated (in fact legally required) to assist another vessel in distress, we as human beings have some level of obligation to help other human beings when they are being victimized.

However, none of these statements are 100% unassailable black and white things. None of them will stand up to one extreme or the other. Each of them must be considered with the circumstances that go with them, and there are cases where it is not only ill-advised, but extremely foolish to get involved.

Let's not start arguing among ourselves about who should do what, regardless of what personal risk is involved, in hypothetical situations.

Chasing a shady character around the neighborhood with no evidence of a crime being committed is a lot different from facing down a thug with a bloody knife standing over a victim laying on the ground with torn clothing.

I like to think that when the situation is appropriate, and it really counts, all of us would intervene.

So let's leave this confrontation behind.

[knkali]

I think we can all agree on these things:

1. It is a good idea to call the police when you suspect that a crime is being committed.
2. It takes the police way too long to respond when a crime is under way.
3. The police have, in many cases, stated that they do not accept responsibility for a failure to stop the crime, or make any guarantees that they will do so.
4. Just as sailors are obligated (in fact legally required) to assist another vessel in distress, we as human beings have some level of obligation to help other human beings when they are being victimized.

However, none of these statements are 100% unassailable black and white things. None of them will stand up to one extreme or the other. Each of them must be considered with the circumstances that go with them, and there are cases where it is not only ill-advised, but extremely foolish to get involved.

Let's not start arguing among ourselves about who should do what, regardless of what personal risk is involved, in hypothetical situations.

Chasing a shady character around the neighborhood with no evidence of a crime being committed is a lot different from facing down a thug with a bloody knife standing over a victim laying on the ground with torn clothing.

I like to think that when the situation is appropriate, and it really counts, all of us would intervene.

So let's leave this confrontation behind.

I love you Scoundrel, well said.

[ORSalesRep]

If my opinion leaned one way, it would be that Zimmerman should not be convicted. I do agree that he used poor judgement in not just alerting the police of his concerns and end it at that. Pursuit either armed or unarmed was foolish. He was on a neighborhood watch and to me, that means observe and report. He did this by noticing something he felt was suspicious and calling 911. He was not on a neighborhood reaction/response team. He over stepped the scope of his responsibilty by pursuing Martin. To claim self defense, it is very important not to do anything that could have been precieved as escalating the situation and because of his following of Martin, one could argue that action escalated the situation.

Unfortunately, the reality here is that if this was a white on white, black on black or black on white shooting with all the facts remaining the same, it would have ended with local law enforcement's release of Zimmerman and no charges filed. Shame on our government for appointing a special prosecutor strictly for political reasons without any regard for right or wrong. Also, shame on the mainstream media for twisting the facts initially and displaying a five year old photo of Martin in order to inflame the public outrage. They alway seem to throw gas on the fire. Why isn't there a organization which the media is held accountable by? Pharmaceuticals, Medical Devices, etc., are kept in line by the FDA. The Stock Market has the SEC. Pubilic Transportation has the TSA. Airline industry has the FAA. I could go on and on! However, with all the power that the media has to shape public opinion, I just don't understand how they get away with the misuse of their power. If the mainstream media ever reported a story that was so completely inaccurate that the public panic or outrage lead to rioting resulting in loss of life, would they get away with it like everything else they get away with?

[Bawanna]

Also shame on the rodent in the White House for making the statement if he had a son he'd look just like Tryvette or Tyrone, I forget the name now.

What possible help could that provide with situation.

That's kind of making a statement if I ever heard one.

[ORSalesRep]

Also shame on the rodent in the White House for making the statement if he had a son he'd look just like Tryvette or Tyrone, I forget the name now.

What possible help could that provide with situation.

That's kind of making a statement if I ever heard one.

Bawanna, I ranted enough....please don't even get me started on that Piece of Sh** imposter of a U.S. Citizen illegally occupying the White House while he continually does everything in his power to use the Consitution as his own personal toilet paper!

[jocko]

ur right greatone, probably outta put this thiNg to rest until trial starts and then we can rehash it as it goes on, in the meantime ol jocko is getting in line to buy a $100 of the Rosa PaRKs commerative stamps. I am so glad u don't have to lick um though. jUST SAYIN

[knkali]

Also shame on the rodent in the White House for making the statement if he had a son he'd look just like Tryvette or Tyrone, I forget the name now.

What possible help could that provide with situation.

That's kind of making a statement if I ever heard one.

While I am a little kinder to the Office of the President even if I am not a supporter of the current tenant, I agree with the above 1000%. I thought that comment was completely out of line and not very presidential.

Rodent? Do you take time to think these up or do they just pop out as you type?

[Bawanna]

I've never been much for holding back, I pretty much speak what I believe to be true. So I guess the short answer is they just pop up.

Due to offending some previously who feel I need to respect the office of the president I've apparently subconciously strived to come up with non racially motivated descriptors. Think "Monkey", "Missing link" etc. I hate myself.

As for respect for the office, as soon as we get a real president I'll have nothing but proper respect.

[tv_racin_fan]

If Zimmerman had followed the instructions he was given and stayed where he was at his vehicle, instead of following the kid, we wouldn't be discusing any of this and the kid would still be alive and Zimmerman wouldn't be in the situation that he is.

Zimmerman was told that he couldn't be armed during his time as a citizen or crime watch volunteer but he chose to be.

Zimmerman is an as*&%$*!

According to what I understand he was not "on watch", he was headed out to go shopping. Thus it was perfectly fine to go armed.

Also according to what I understand and the 911 tape seems to bear witness he stopped following Trayvon when he was told to do so. According to the time line I have seen he was apparently walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked.

Now I wasn't there and I can not say 100% what occured BUT the evidence I have heard (911 tape) seems to show what I have seen to be correct.

[Popeye]

I am making the point that the police are not under any obligation to protect life and property. Ultimately you are. Think about it. If the police were obligated, then they could be sued when someone is robbed or killed.
?

Knkali sorry if I offended you. It happens,I do that sometimes to people. I did not call you and idiot, but this statement IMO is pretty idiodic. I'm responsible for my family and home. I'm not a cop or trained in any sort of law enforcement and don't you think I could be sued or loose everything I've ever worked for also when someone is robbed or killed do to my inexperienced conduct. (Zimmerman seems to have lost it all)
As always pulling my gun will be when all else fails. If others want to carry a gun that's there business, if they do not that's there business also, but it does not mean I'm obligated to protect them and risk everything when the cops are not are obligated according to you. I mean we would want them to get sued now would we.
Everyone knows my feelings on this,story of two knuckleheads. Some agree some don't and I'm more than cool with that. In my 66 years the skin has gotten pretty tough. Now I'm ready to move on, and again if I hurt your feeling or offended you I'm sorry and I'll do my best not to do it again. Be warned though I'm not very good at it.

[JimC]

According to what I understand he was not "on watch", he was headed out to go shopping. Thus it was perfectly fine to go armed.

Also according to what I understand and the 911 tape seems to bear witness he stopped following Trayvon when he was told to do so. According to the time line I have seen he was apparently walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked.

Now I wasn't there and I can not say 100% what occured BUT the evidence I have heard (911 tape) seems to show what I have seen to be correct.

Living in FL and seeing this BS unfold everyday on every TV news channel, I have a different recollection of what took place.

IMO, Zimmerman is still an as&*%le. :mad:

[jocko]

I carry to protect me, myself and I and my family, not to prtect the neighbor or the guy down the street. If my subdivision wanted a watch prson I would have no part of it.

Carrying a gun is a major thing for any person to do. There are just today to many ramifications to carrying a gun. If I see a guy beating his wife in the back yard, should Istop and shoot the bad guy and think I am a hero, only to later find out that the bg was her husband and he just came home and found his wife had killed two of his kinds and was on the thrid kid and he was trying to stop her. Stupid sceanario I know and I hate scenario's to but stupid things happen. Just ask zimmerman.

I have been on this gun forum since day one and I have seen what I feel are some real Rambo's and personally I would not want that fella living next to me.

If zimmerman wasn't white and Trevor black, we would not even be reading this crapola and when the DOJ gets involved it is a lynch mob ordered by obama and that is why I am concerned.. I don';t care one way or the utter what u all think of the case. IT DESERVES A FAIR AND BALANCED TRIAL..

[JimC]

Also shame on the rodent in the White House for making the statement if he had a son he'd look just like Tryvette or Tyrone, I forget the name now.

What possible help could that provide with situation.

That's kind of making a statement if I ever heard one.

While I agree with you, "they" put him and her back in the WH.
The takers will prevail everytime. :mad:

[knkali]

Knkali sorry if I offended you. It happens,I do that sometimes to people. I did not call you and idiot, but this statement IMO is pretty idiodic. I'm responsible for my family and home. I'm not a cop or trained in any sort of law enforcement and don't you think I could be sued or loose everything I've ever worked for also when someone is robbed or killed do to my inexperienced conduct. (Zimmerman seems to have lost it all)
As always pulling my gun will be when all else fails. If others want to carry a gun that's there business, if they do not that's there business also, but it does not mean I'm obligated to protect them and risk everything when the cops are not are obligated according to you. I mean we would want them to get sued now would we.
Everyone knows my feelings on this,story of two knuckleheads. Some agree some don't and I'm more than cool with that. In my 66 years the skin has gotten pretty tough. Now I'm ready to move on, and again if I hurt your feeling or offended you I'm sorry and I'll do my best not to do it again. Be warned though I'm not very good at it.

Thanks Popeye for the apology. Water under the bridge. I really do understand your position on these issues. Obligated was a strong word to use when discussing what civilians do or not do to protect life and property. The word "obligated" connotes that you have no personal liberty to make a decision on the matter which is clearly not the case.

[knkali]

I carry to protect me, myself and I and my family, not to prtect the neighbor or the guy down the street. If my subdivision wanted a watch prson I would have no part of it.

Carrying a gun is a major thing for any person to do. There are just today to many ramifications to carrying a gun. If I see a guy beating his wife in the back yard, should Istop and shoot the bad guy and think I am a hero, only to later find out that the bg was her husband and he just came home and found his wife had killed two of his kinds and was on the thrid kid and he was trying to stop her. Stupid sceanario I know and I hate scenario's to but stupid things happen. Just ask zimmerman.

I have been on this gun forum since day one and I have seen what I feel are some real Rambo's and personally I would not want that fella living next to me.

If zimmerman wasn't white and Trevor black, we would not even be reading this crapola and when the DOJ gets involved it is a lynch mob ordered by obama and that is why I am concerned.. I don';t care one way or the utter what u all think of the case. IT DESERVES A FAIR AND BALANCED TRIAL..

Of course discretion is needed when to use force. 99% of the time, my use of deadly force is confined to protecting me and my family. However, getting involved doesnt automatically mean that gun play is mandatory. Making your presence known, letting suspicious characters know that they have been seen and or just letting a neighbor know something is amiss can be effective and a great adjunct to calling the police.

Jfootin said something about gun ownership and CCW that was very good: "It is a deadly serious responsiblity to own guns, and much more so to carry a loaded gun. It challenges me to be adult, responsible, practiced and competent, ready to behave bravely and prudently if the s.h.t.f."

[ORSalesRep]

I've never been much for holding back, I pretty much speak what I believe to be true. So I guess the short answer is they just pop up.

Due to offending some previously who feel I need to respect the office of the president I've apparently subconciously strived to come up with non racially motivated descriptors. Think "Monkey", "Missing link" etc. I hate myself.

As for respect for the office, as soon as we get a real president I'll have nothing but proper respect.

I can respect the office and what it represents without rrspecting the asshat in the office!

[jocko]

yearsago,we neerseparatedthe office of the president and the person. Wewere taught when I wasinschool to respect the president of the united states. Obamma has made me change the way I feel, not the office of the president.

Same way we were all taught to respect our parents but look at the youth today, do u see that??? You wouldnt go stickin fokking pins and sh!it in ur tongues or noses if u did. I guess I am just gettin to old to understand. were probablyt gonna see a muff diver as our next president in 2016:israel:

[aKahrt_and_p2KT]

it's such bs how all the witnesses have changed their reports since the crap hit the fan on this one. Everyone is scared.

[Chief Joseph]

if you look at a gun, talk about a gun, own a gun or shoot a gun, it is a political thing. Has been for many years and seemingly will be for many more years to come. The only people that should help this guy is you and me if so inclined. A free man after trial is the best political statement that can be made but the NRA is not in a position to help that. In fact, distance from the NRA is probably a better position to help Zimr. The presence of the NRA could be inflamatory and over reaching in this case.

Politics and guns, this has always been true about guns. I could never understand pro gun sights who wanted politics out. Guns ARE POLITICS and to put your head in the sand is completely stupid. That's why my tolerance for supposed liberal gun owners is gone, you CAN NOT BE BOTH.

[Chief Joseph]

From all I understand, zimmerman is an obama loving democRAT. Right up until those he supported targeted him at least. Sorry, but if this were different individual, I have a feeling zimmerman would be on the lefts side attacking said individual. I'll support real American Conservatives, not liberals who get bit by the side they HELPED TO POWER.

[Popeye]

Politics and guns, this has always been true about guns. I could never understand pro gun sights who wanted politics out. Guns ARE POLITICS and to put your head in the sand is completely stupid. That's why my tolerance for supposed liberal gun owners is gone, you CAN NOT BE BOTH.

You are so right Chief. It's so much of politics and important that our founding fathers chose to make it the second ammendment. Not the 3rd, 10th, last, or not at all.

[jocko]

I really have no feeling towards what party he belonged to, I have never red that but again if it is true, makes zero difference to me. I just want him to get a fair and balanced trial. I would think we all would want that, not this vigilante type that the blacks and obummer want.

Because he is a democrate, fokk him let um hang him: Hellof an attitude to have towards anyone..

[Bawanna]

That's kind of my attitude, if he's a democrat go ahead an hang him, no great loss.

Course based on what I've read there never should have been an arrest, let alone a trial.

[gmcjetpilot]

Obama was elected TWICE with a legal process. If you can't respect that
you are not a patriot. We could have done worse. Do you think George
Dub was a great president or the greatest!? Ha ha. Also what is up with
++80 year old politicians? Can we get some ****ing term limits.

Do you all really thing Republicans are better? Ha ha! Politicians are ALL
partisan D-bags that look out for their self and their biggest contributors
and lobbyist cronies, not you and me. When you go partisan you stop
thinking. Obama has droned bombed the crap out of terrorist, spied on
everyone and got Osama-ben-dead. Amen.

We are no longer a homogeneous nation like we were for the most
part from 1800's through the last 70 years from 1920 to 1990.... we are
"racially diverse" and have to deal with that fact, good bad and ugly. Also
whites will not be dominate politically or particularly respected. Expect to
be discriminated against (more). News flash ALL races are racist. It is
human nature to stick with people who look like you. Not that this is bad
in it self, but whites will be a minority.

If the GOP wants to win they better do better than a very old pasty
white man whose main message is anti gay, anti abortion,
anti immigration and pro guns. Nothing wrong with that platform,
but just saying it will not win. Whining about Obama is not going to do
anything and will not win any votes.

[Just so you know I am registered un-affiliated, can watch Fox or NBC
with out my head exploding. I am not "Independent" or libertarian. I
realize we have to deal with the two party system, but that is not what
the founding fathers wanted and warned against it. I am a Christian,
right of center, and I'm team America, not beholding to political parties.]

[Bawanna]

Obama didn't know or he would have vetoed the bin laden mission. I think they were cousins.

He's done nothing good and I loved both Bush's. And I really loved both Bush first ladies. Respectful and classy and knew their place, unlike the current first lady that thinks she's queen.

Her and the Witch Camilla should link up and take over a deserted island.

[gmcjetpilot]

obama didn't know or he would have vetoed the binladen mission. I think they were cousins."well that is not true, but you are funny"

he's done nothing good and i loved both bush's. And i really loved both bush first ladies. Respectful and classy and knew their place, unlike thecurrent first lady that thinks she's queen. Her and the witchcamilla should link up and take over a deserted island. "me think thou protest ye too much. I like senior but g-dub junior was a draft dodging, coke snorting not too smart president who did a lot of harm.... Not the least.... Fair to say, let Condi Rice ignore "bin laden determined to attack in usa" and get us in two wars, one was totally wasteful costing $trillions$ and 4,300 usa lives, 32,000 grievously wounded, only benefited iran and china. News flash china has all the oilcontracts in iraq... I do blame bush because he and his hubris cabal buddies, Rumsfeld and president cheney, I mean vice president cheney, knew the facts were false, before we went in all shock and awe on Iraq so ill prepared for occupation. Rumsfeld said it won't last 6 months!"

"Come on you don't know M Obama, and she probably can kick your ass.... Ha ha.Good news for you, President Hillary Clinton and first lady Bill soon…. Ha ha!!!"

[tv_racin_fan]

They knew the facts were false?

Are you saying that the democrats in congress knew there were no WMD in Iraq but they supported President Clintons actions in regards to WMD in Iraq anyway?

Are you saying they knew there were none but they voted to allow military action as a last resort anyway?

I find it quite interesting to go back and read what people such as Scott Ritter had to say in that regard in 1998 and then see what he had to say in 2001 or later. What democrats in office said under President Clinton and then what they said under President Bush. I wonder where they got the information that caused them to change their minds during that time frame. I loved how democrats claimed that Mr Ritter was part of a watch hunt when he was investigated over some molestation charges but they never speak about how he was later convicted of similar charges.

Loved it when Hans Blix went to Iraq and found that Iraq was indeed rebuilding what had been destroyed under the first UN Inspection Team.

Yeah them facts is false alright the trouble is descernin which facts it is that are false.

[Chief Joseph]

Obama was elected TWICE with a legal process. If you can't respect that
you are not a patriot. We could have done worse. Do you think George
Dub was a great president or the greatest!? Ha ha. Also what is up with
++80 year old politicians? Can we get some ****ing term limits.

Do you all really thing Republicans are better? Ha ha! Politicians are ALL
partisan D-bags that look out for their self and their biggest contributors
and lobbyist cronies, not you and me. When you go partisan you stop
thinking. Obama has droned bombed the crap out of terrorist, spied on
everyone and got Osama-ben-dead. Amen.

We are no longer a homogeneous nation like we were for the most
part from 1800's through the last 70 years from 1920 to 1990.... we are
"racially diverse" and have to deal with that fact, good bad and ugly. Also
whites will not be dominate politically or particularly respected. Expect to
be discriminated against (more). News flash ALL races are racist. It is
human nature to stick with people who look like you. Not that this is bad
in it self, but whites will be a minority.

If the GOP wants to win they better do better than a very old pasty
white man whose main message is anti gay, anti abortion,
anti immigration and pro guns. Nothing wrong with that platform,
but just saying it will not win. Whining about Obama is not going to do
anything and will not win any votes.

[Just so you know I am registered un-affiliated, can watch Fox or NBC
with out my head exploding. I am not "Independent" or libertarian. I
realize we have to deal with the two party system, but that is not what
the founding fathers wanted and warned against it. I am a Christian,
right of center, and I'm team America, not beholding to political parties.]

Nobama wasn't "elected" twice, he stole the election the 2nd time. There are prosecutions proving that all over the country. Like the POLL worker who voted for him 6 times. And districts in philly with ZERO votes for Romney? Come on, the fix was in and this was stolen. There is NOTHING patriotic about this loser in office. He's an America hating scumbag. And ya, GW was a million times better. Far from a Conservative, but I'll take sub 2 bucks a gallon gas and 4.5 percent unemployment over the economic mess that is team democRAT today, ANYDAY. Republicans are not much better, but a Tea Party R IS. And none of the Repubs are coming for our guns like the dbaggers are. That alone puts them heads, shoulder, whole body above dbaggers. And at least we have a chance to dump leftist R's. Unlike the dbaggers who keep their criminals in the party and in office. Look how many crooks and tax cheats kept their positions. You can't be pro democRAT and pro 2nd Amendment PERIOD. And their is no such thing as team America and democRAT. They want no borders and the destruction of the American history and way.

[Glock23]

You can't be pro democRAT and pro 2nd Amendment PERIOD.
Not everything is black and white, one or the other... there are exceptions to everything.

The man who sponsored the bill which is now Illinois' concealed carry law, is a Democrat... and he's been the driving force for a long time trying to get Illinois to this point.

[wyntrout]

You got it right Chief. The other guy must have been living in a cave or had his head where the sun doesn't shine that he couldn't see the corruption and crimes being committed to re-elect Obummer. Everything the Left does is fair to them as long as they get their way. They only whine for bi-partisanship when they can't force their way on everyone!

Wynn:)

[jocko]

if anyone watch bill Orally last night he had some black dude on there who was so rqacists it was unbelievable. . His ending comment was we should arm all the blacks.

I support that!!! Just sayin

[Chief Joseph]

Not everything is black and white, one or the other... there are exceptions to everything.

The man who sponsored the bill which is now Illinois' concealed carry law, is a Democrat... and he's been the driving force for a long time trying to get Illinois to this point.

True there are, just like the gang of 8 in the senate like rubio pushing amnesty. But the exceptions aren't the rule, the majority are. Once those 8 losers were done, their party in the house are rightfully killing it. There are a couple demos who will support some gun rights, but the OVERWHELMING majority of dems are in the process of ending the 2nd Amendment, nobama just within the last 2 days mentioned "gun control for trayvon". It is that black and white. You can't be both, if you insist on being a democRAT, you are against the 2nd Amendment.

[Chief Joseph]

You got it right Chief. The other guy must have been living in a cave or had his head where the sun doesn't shine that he couldn't see the corruption and crimes being committed to re-elect Obummer. Everything the Left does is fair to them as long as they get their way. They only whine for bi-partisanship when they can't force their way on everyone!

Wynn:)

They are fully following the rules for radicals and the cloward piven strategy.

[jocko]

help: I want to be PC about everythingj... So if I am sitting in a coffee shop and a super chick with a skirt 14"above her knees walks in with a low cut blouse and no bra on and I start at her ankles and work my way up wiht my eyes. WOULD YOU CALL THAT PROFILING?? I rely on guys like Tinman and getsome and some of u much wiser people than I do to help me here. Just sayin

I don't want to be doin anything wrong.

[tv_racin_fan]

Ok one last time.

Mr Zimmerman was not ON WATCH at the time of the incident. Thus EVEN IF there was some sort of rule about not being armed while on watch he would not be in violation of that rule.

The handbook on neighborhood watch from the police department in that area does not address being armed.

The police liason who helped Mr Zimmerman set up that particular program testified that she does not discuss that.

As far as I can find there is no rule on being armed or not from the national organization.

Where the not being armed comes from is from people not even connected with any neighborhood watch organization.

Thus no such rule, wouldn't matter if there was such a rule as he was not on watch at the time of the incident.

According to the evidence from the POLICE RECORDING OF THE PHONE CONVERSATION Mr Zimmerman was not following Mr Martin at the time of the confrontation. According to the evidence of the taped conversation Mr Zimmerman did not in fact racially profile Mr Martin.

Forget the lies you have been told by the media and go look at the actual evidence presented in the court room.

Or believe the lies you have been fed, stop carrying a handgun because you are wrong to do so according to the media lies, do not defend yourself because you are wrong to do so according to the govt agents and the media.

Tis your choice.

Mr Zimmerman may well be an ******* BUT I sure hope that my neighbors do not ignore that guy wandering around in the rain looking at and into homes. I sure hope they don't just call the law and allow that guy to walk around checkin out whatever he feels like checkin out.

[ltxi]

help: I want to be PC about everythingj... So if I am sitting in a coffee shop and a super chick with a skirt 14"above her knees walks in with a low cut blouse and no bra on and I start at her ankles and work my way up wiht my eyes. WOULD YOU CALL THAT PROFILING?? I rely on guys like Tinman and getsome and some of u much wiser people than I do to help me here. Just sayin

I don't want to be doin anything wrong.

I'd call that stupid. Start with the bits you be most interested in and work out from there.

[getsome]

I see there is a question this morning for Dr. Getsome from an older gentleman signed Jocko, Dear Jocko, Yes you are a dirty old man pervert (not that there's anything wrong with that) but you are profiling and profiling is wrong BUT you can use P.C. to your advantage in this situation....

I have used this method with great success in the past and so can you....What you do is when she flits by you in the coffee shop just start intently staring at her feet and then very slowly start working your way all the way up to her nose and if your eyes happen to meet and she demands to know exactly what the intent of all that ogling is about just politely tell her you are a retired Doctor of Dermatology (I have professional looking business cards on me just for this very purpose) and since she was showing so much skin you were very concerned and just doing a public service skin exam looking for any abnormalities or moles that could be a problem....

When the young voluptuous lass finds out you were only concerned about her health she will be very happy you were interested in her and will thank you profusely for the attention to her long term happiness and well being....If things are going well you can offer to check out all her other areas that are presently covered to be sure all is clear there too...(pays to be careful with UV and skin) who knows what lurks beneath those tight garments!!!

You see, profiling and P.C. can be a good thing and like the song say's "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometimes, you get what you need"...

Tune in again for more of today's pressing questions on "The Dr. Getsome Show".....:p

[jocko]

well there u go, words of wisdom from the Master. Do u sell live bait? would that make u what???

[gmcjetpilot]

Self defense, end of story it is over. Did he put himself there? Did he not
stay in his car? Yes, but not illegal, dumb but not illegal. Did Trayvon
have a right to be there? Yes. Did he attack Zimmerman? Almost with out
much doubt. That sealed his fate. It is too bad the kid had to lose his life,
but he brought it on by hitting Zimmerman. It is too bad Zimmerman did
not have pepper spray or a back up partner.

With that said I WOULD NEVER patrol or go on watch in my neighbor
armed or not armed, as a civilian, especially lone eagle. He should have
called it in and stayed on his car. I would call police and monitor. If you
are not in my family, I'm not going to shoot some one or take a bullet.

I am not a sheep dog for community or what ever; THAT IS THE
JOB OF POLICE. You and I are not the P-oh-P-oh. My gun is for my
protection and that of my family; my goal is avoid conflict not look for it.

If there were two paid uniformed armed security guards or cops who
came upon Trayvon, even if Trayvon was insane on Meth and attacked
them, it would not have resulted in his shooting and death. They would
have pepper sprayed or tazed him or just subdued him.

Again I think GZ was in his rights and did nothing illegal or racist.
However I am not going to get into a situation where I need to use my
gun, because I know it could be a **** storm of legal, financial and
emotional hell.

If they bring civil rights charges against GZ, I will contribute for his
defense. They Feds just requested the evidence, I assume to save face
with no intent to charge him.

Frankly George Zimmerman's civil rights were violated, he was called a
"Creepy ass Cracka and Gay Rapist" and then beaten by the black man
who said that! Clear case of profiling and hate crime against Zimmerman! :eek:

[gmcjetpilot]

They knew the facts were false?

Are you saying that the democrats in congress knew there were no WMD in Iraq but they supported President Clintons actions in regards to WMD in Iraq anyway?"
No I am saying the PRESIDENT and his gang of idiots (Rumsfeld and
Cheney) trotted Collin Powell out in front of the UN to say there were
WMD's.... Powell did not know that they found out the Intel was bogus.
Yes the Dems were for it as were many Americans (including me) who
were pissed and/or scared.... Yet the PRESIDENT knew. We know that
now. We also know and should agree IT WAS A BAD IDEA and POORLY
PLANNED.... The going in was fine, but they had no plan after that. They
should have kept the Gov and Iraq Police and Military in place. WE KNOW
THIS NOW... It was a big F up and the BUCK stops with your Man Crush
George W Bush. I like Bush, would like to go to Crawford and have some
near-beer and shoot the ****... Lots of fun, but he is not a particularly
smart or articulate man. His father was AGAINST war in Iraq....


Are you saying they knew there were none but they voted to allow military action as a last resort anyway?
Are you challenged. Save your STRAW MAN BS..... The President knew
and should have NOT gone in, knowing what he knew, even if it was only
days or even hours before. We don't need to prove we can annihilate
people. We can do that.... The reason we did not go into Iraq after Desert
storm was well explained by Chaney! Look up youtube "Cheney '94:
Invading Baghdad Would Create Quagmire"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I



Please save your brilliant argument. The buck stops with GW Bush.
I find it quite interesting to go back and read what people such as Scott
Ritter had to say in that regard in 1998 and then see what he had to say
in 2001 or later. What democrats in office said under President Clinton
and then what they said under President Bush. I wonder where they got
the information that caused them to change their minds during that time
frame. I loved how democrats claimed that Mr Ritter was part of a watch
hunt when he was investigated over some molestation charges but they
never speak about how he was later convicted of similar charges.

WTF? Now it is CLINTON? Molestation? Ha ha! Talk about some Non
Sequitur and Red Herrings. You have no argument and lost. There is no
way to have an intelligent discussion because you are a biased partisan
non thinker. Save your diatribe. Let me repeat the GOP today is an awful
bunch of losers (good ones get run out or are forced to get in lock step).
Dems are not better. You pledge allegiance to the GOP, I will not. NO
TERM & NO AGE LIMITS (+90 YR OLD POLITICIANS) IS IDIOTIC. George
Washington could have been KING... He was right being a politician
should not be a career.

Also "Corporations are people" and Super-Paks are other more things
eroding our Republic. Most of all I blame us "The People". We get the Gov
we deserve because people don't vote or pay attention. The Gov is run by
politicians who ignore our majority wishes yet some how get voted back
into office.



Loved it when Hans Blix went to Iraq and found that Iraq was indeed
rebuilding what had been destroyed under the first UN Inspection Team.
Yeah them facts is false alright the trouble is descernin which facts it is
that are false.
Facts are a hard thing for you to deal with. Iraq was a disaster from a cost
benefit analysis. It was one of the reasons we went into a financial tail
spin along with Bush and GOP sucking the *** of oil and wall street, doing
almost NO (read zero) oversight. IT HAPPENED ON BUSH's WATCH:
Attacked on 9/11/2001 and 2008 Financial Collapse. That is a fact. I am
sorry to upset your bubble, but the real world is out side.

Obama is a piss poor President, because he is not a good politician, too
nice. However at least the economy is improving and did get Bin Laden;
Bush said catching Osama bin Laden is not his top priority. You just can't
say anything nice, because you are so brain washed with propaganda.

People who wish for Obama to fail for political or personal bigotry are not
Patriots to me, they're dumb and/or seditious... I am not saying Dems are
better and they did vilify GW. I supported GW and voted for him, but he
made tragic decisions and Cheney was President.