Got a look at the ZIP 22 LR in person today

[Scoundrel]

A LGS called to tell me they got some of the Zip 22 LR (http://zipfactory.com/) in stock. Went to look at it. The thing is gigantic.

I had trouble figuring out how I would even hold it, much less aim and fire.
If I wanted to feel like I was holding a 2x4 in my hand, I'd buy a pre-gen4 Glock.

I saw the dimensions on the website, but it didn't really register how big it really was. I could have forgiven its ugliness/weirdness if it was half that size.

Also, SBRs are not legal in this state, so it wouldn't even be useful for buying the adapter and mounting to a rifle.

The only potential value I could see in it is the fact that the weird, failed guns are the ones that eventually become collector items worth multiple times the original purchase price.

But I didn't buy one.

http://zipfactory.com/im/zipwhatcando3.jpg

[Bawanna]

Not much in the looks dept is it.

[JustinN]

Wtf is that thing even for?

[RRP]

I'm curious, Scoundrel, what was the price tag on the beast?

[Scoundrel]

Price tag was $229. MSRP on the MFG website is $199.

What's it for? It's a novelty gun. Primary design was for mounting under the front handguard of a rifle, but it can be used as a pistol. It uses Ruger 10/22 magazines.

[JustinN]

In what situation would you need a .22lr under a rifle? I don't mean to be obtuse here, but I just don't get what it's for...a quieter point blank shot?

[Scoundrel]

A lot of people like the idea of mounting a pistol to the front rail of a rifle. Is it practical? Is it useful? I dunno, but that doesn't stop people from liking the idea.

In what situation would you need a double-wide 1911?

Note: I'm not endorsing/defending the product, and you'll notice that having seen one in person, and even though I had the cash available, I did not buy one today.

[Ae35]

Way to easy to reach your fingers up in front of the muzzle to cock it, when I handled it, POS !!!!!! Not sure I'd take it even if it was free !!!!!!

[jocko]

its an abortion, there gonna loose their asses on that gun. about as practical as titts on a boar. Just sayin

[Cokeman]

It looks like they took a 22lr AR and cut off as much as they could and still have it work.

[Cokeman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9jVktnBI-Y

It's a bullpup 22lr pistol.

[wyntrout]

Jeez.... ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz....

WTF? What a terrible presentation of ambiguity! Intense music drowning out any shooting and really D R O N I N G... on and on!

Is it for snuff shots up close? Maybe it's to confuse any possible enemy... puzzling him with your intention or making him roll on the ground in laughter!

Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

Cokeman, you sneaked in there. Your link is good... too true!

Wynn:)

[Cokeman]

It might be a fun gun.

[Scoundrel]

Funny, the rebellious streak in me wants to get it now JUST because of the vitriol it produced here.

[newCW45guy]

its an abortion, there gonna loose their asses on that gun. about as practical as titts on a boar. Just sayin

I concur... the only possible reason would be a silenced version attached to an M4. But that's a real stretch since anyone willing to create a similar thing in .45acp would deliver a real wallop.

The SBR rifle stock seems interesting as a survival rifle but not worth paying the NFA tax. Over say buying an AR-7.

[Longitude Zero]

It is ugly as heck. But it is so ugly tht I bet they sell a bunch on the novelty value alone.

[Bawanna]

Funny, the rebellious streak in me wants to get it now JUST because of the vitriol it produced here.

Funny I had the same thought. I must be rebellious too huh?

I've always wanted to find something uglier than a Glock and I think this is it.

[CJB]

Why am I envisioning a smooth bore version... so that its even less expensive... everything else stamped or molded.

Why am I envisioning these being air dropped behind the lines with ten rounds of .22LR and a comic book instruction set.

We could call it the Liberator-II, code named the "hand flare projector", like in WWII

[AIRret]

Why not buy a Savage? We saw one today at a gun store. It had two barrels, a 410 and a 22.

The store owner was thrilled when he told us he had 20,000 rounds of 9mm coming in within the next two weeks.

[Scoundrel]

So, upon reviewing this thread, I decided that the preceding posts were a very refreshing display of tolerance, careful considered points, and an openness to new ideas. Wait, that was a load of bullshit. Actually, this thread so vehemently trashed the ZIP 22 LR that I decided to give it another look.

You see, I just couldn't stop thinking about it. How ugly it is. How unwieldy it is. How impractical it is. How large it is. How it serves no purpose that needed filling. How everyone seems inclined to hate on it.

Then I thought about how it's a working gun, one that uses ammo I have a crapload of, uses magazines that I have a fair number of, and one that is guaranteed to start a conversation if I choose to make it visible.
So I went back and bought it.

I've decided to post a few more times about it, first with the range report, and then again when I disassemble it to mess with the innards. When I feel that the flow of hate has slowed down too much, I'll make another post to bring it TTT for a fresh dose of vitriol.

I told the LGS I didn't like the fact that it was $30 over MSRP, but they wouldn't budge on that. They were, however, willing to give me a free range session if I bought it. I forgot to bring a magazine with me (it does not ship with one), but they were willing to loan me one from a 10/22 rifle.
That gave me the ability to buy it and try it all at once, and that was worth the extra $30.

It shot just fine, for the most part. I put 50 rounds of CCI Mini-Mags through it, plus 10 Stingers. I had one light strike in the first magazine, but when I rotated and reloaded that one, it fired the 2nd time around.
My hand started to hurt because it really was like holding a 2x4, but then I adjusted my grip and it got somewhat better.
I was not really concentrating, but was doing 5" groups at 7 yards.
The sights are all black. Maybe I'll get a glow in the dark paint pen and put some dots on there.

It comes with two sets of recoil springs. The installed set is for high velocity ammo, including Mini-Mags (the manual did not mention Stingers at all). The extra set is for standard velocity stuff like Federal Bulk Pack.
I'll be taking it apart and swapping the springs soon, and taking a closer look at the innards.

[Cokeman]

Post some pics of the inside.

[Scoundrel]

Post some pics of the inside.

I plan to, after people hate on it some more (and when I get around to taking it apart).

[JustinN]

Perhaps my lack of understanding was a calculated ploy knowing it would cause some like Scoundrel or Bawanna to actually buy one, as I am secretly one of the investors in the gun......

Not really, but I don't hate the gun....I just don't understand what purpose it was filling. It is cool that you could have a handgun using 10/22 mags, thus carrying a pistol and a carbine that uses the same mags/ammo....but I'm still a bit confused as to the purpose of the gun, other than a futuristic looking 22 pistol. I definitely don't understand mounting it to the front of a rifle, but it sounds like you had fun with it...and I'm sure it will generate discussions with other at the range when you go shooting.

Now that you own one, have shot one, etc. What would you say is the advantage of something like this over a P22, SR22, MKIII, etc?

[Longitude Zero]

I just don't understand what purpose it was filling.

Most probably a "Lookey at what I can design and build."

[Tinman507]

Most probably a "Lookey at what I can design and build."

cMO8Pyi3UpY

[wyntrout]

I can see an "operator" having one mounted on his shoulder-fired weapon for suppressed close-in work... were you don't NEED a high-powered, noisy, messy shot.

And... it can be another "unique" attachment for you guys and gals who like to festoon your AR's with all manner of extra "accessories"... "Hey! Looky whut I got!"
Or... "Yo! Looky whut I got!"

Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

I took my 10/22 to the range the other day to try out my scope and different kinds of ammo. I had real good results with the Remington Sub-Sonic .22LR... much better than the CCI Segment Sub-Sonic .22LR which jammed too often... but that could have been the wax buildup in the new magazines, too.

I was thinking that would be a good ammo and use the lighter spring for suppressor work.

Wynn:)

[Scoundrel]

I had real good results with the Remington Sub-Sonic .22LR... much better than the CCI Segment Sob-Sonic .22LR which jammed too often... but that could have been the wax buildup in the new magazines, too.


I've had very good results with the CCI Sub-Sonic in my Charger, which is basically a small 10/22. Didn't try the Remington, but had no need to.

Now, those Aguila 60gr rounds (I have a 1:9 twist barrel), they jam left, right, and sideways. Usually failures to eject.

[Scoundrel]

I can see an "operator" having one mounted on his shoulder-fired weapon for suppressed close-in work...

Please explain briefly what an "operator" is in this context so I can be spared the trouble of looking it up?

[Bawanna]

The word "operator" drives me insane. Our swat guys use it like a new version of tactical. All mall ninja's are operators now days.

Just to keep the hate going for ya, if that is the look of the future I don't want to go. Bad enough we had to stray from our single action colts, now this. Only so much a half man can take ya know?

Don't be hatin.

[Scoundrel]

Perhaps my lack of understanding was a calculated ploy knowing it would cause some like Scoundrel or Bawanna to actually buy one, as I am secretly one of the investors in the gun......

Not really, but I don't hate the gun....I just don't understand what purpose it was filling. It is cool that you could have a handgun using 10/22 mags, thus carrying a pistol and a carbine that uses the same mags/ammo....but I'm still a bit confused as to the purpose of the gun, other than a futuristic looking 22 pistol. I definitely don't understand mounting it to the front of a rifle, but it sounds like you had fun with it...and I'm sure it will generate discussions with other at the range when you go shooting.

Now that you own one, have shot one, etc. What would you say is the advantage of something like this over a P22, SR22, MKIII, etc?

Ooh, this is gonna be a tough one.

I have no experience with the SR22, but I do have a P22 and a MKIII. I'm going to assume for the purposes of this discussion that the SR22 is pretty much the same as the P22 in form and function.

So, what can you do with the ZIP that you can't do with the others?
Magazines. That's where it's at. Are there high capacity magazines for the P22, SR22, or MK III?

[Tinman507]

Please explain briefly what an "operator" is in this context so I can be spared the trouble of looking it up?

k9e3dTOJi0o

[Bawanna]

Ooh, this is gonna be a tough one.

I have no experience with the SR22, but I do have a P22 and a MKIII. I'm going to assume for the purposes of this discussion that the SR22 is pretty much the same as the P22 in form and function.

So, what can you do with the ZIP that you can't do with the others?
Magazines. That's where it's at. Are there high capacity magazines for the P22, SR22, or MK III?

Sweet Mary and Joseph, I think you might have hit an erogenous zone! That more than makes up for the lack of asthetics.

Speaking in tongues so as to avoid our local secrets and knowing that I am not going to go buy one, what shop had this. You mentioned range so had to be the new West Coast Armory, formerly Sams, Norpoint? Please don't say Wades.

[Bawanna]

I am still trying to grasp how you hang on to the darn thing though. It's like it's not designed to be held like a pistol, more for an add on to a black thing.

[Scoundrel]

Sweet Mary and Joseph, I think you might have hit an erogenous zone! That more than makes up for the lack of asthetics.

Speaking in tongues so as to avoid our local secrets and knowing that I am not going to go buy one, what shop had this. You mentioned range so had to be the new West Coast Armory, formerly Sams, Norpoint? Please don't say Wades.

I'd rather pound on my own testicles with a rubber mallet than give Wade's any more of my money. But, that being said, sometimes they're still the best option for a quick range session.

I got this one at WCA's Bellevue branch (just a hop, skip and a jump from Factoria).

[Scoundrel]

I am still trying to grasp how you hang on to the darn thing though. It's like it's not designed to be held like a pistol, more for an add on to a black thing.

So am I. :)

[Bawanna]

I'd rather pound on my own testicles with a rubber mallet than give Wade's any more of my money. But, that being said, sometimes they're still the best option for a quick range session.

I got this one at WCA's Bellevue branch (just a hop, skip and a jump from Factoria).

Bless you Scoundrel. I've not been over there yet. I plan to trek up to the Old Sams sometime to see what they have done with the place. Hopefully good things.

[Scoundrel]

I was impressed that WCA had half of the purchasing paperwork computerized, so it reduced the amount of stuff I had to write out by hand.
They also have a computerized sign-in for the range.

I did not become a member though. Dunno how often I'd go there, because of the distance and they're kinda stickybutts.

The range was decent. The target hanging system held still, instead of bouncing the target all over the place and swaying with the breeze of the ventilation system.

[wyntrout]

I was thinking more of SEALs, DELTA Force, and other special forces... not SWAT or other WANNABES... the guys that have a need to take out the enemy quietly and efficiently during real ops against terrorists or foreign enemies... not bring them to "justice"... or the CIRCUS it usually is... at GREAT TAXPAYER EXPENSE! Ya know... like Chuck Norris or Steven Seagal do in the movies... or even Tom "Short" Cruise!

Wynn:D

[johnh]

That SBR module for it looks kind of neat. There might be some interesting aftermarket potential for making various assemblies to insert the base gun into. Looks more fun than useful, but there is no harm in that! :)