Inside of 8 round magazine

[Harrylee]

Have you ever wondered whats going on inside the magazine well I have so I built a jig with the same inside dimensions of a 9mm mag.Now you can see how things work or not work.You will see how compressed the spring really is.This is done all from 8 round magazines I believe my combination of the mod follower and 6 round spring is the best of both worlds,the 8 round spring had to much tension on it.Sorry about the one picture out of focus but what I trying to show there is the ears that come down have a large edge,what I did was to put a 45 on the inside edge both front and back, I saw that edge getting hung up on the spring.And with the lighter spring doesn't to nose dive as hard.I have tested this at the range with cor bon 115 jhp they have fairly wide mouth on them.It worked great and you can sling shot the slide with no trouble.I also did a extreme ramp on the follower.This mag setup works real sweet

[muggsy]

Harry,
The first picture shows the rim of the first cartridge in the extraction groove of second cartridge. I can see where this could be the reason for many of the nose dive jambs. Good job.

[Ikeo74]

Very good demonstration. Now I see in the top stock model why the top round pulls the second round out of the mag some when loading the first round. The case back edge is nested into the 2nd one's grove and drags it out because of the tight spring pressure.

[Harrylee]

I'm telling you guys the lighter spring is the ace in the hole

[OldLincoln]

Muggsy you hit the nail on the head!

[Harrylee]

I forgot to mention this is my favorite way to carry a 8 round mag

[Ikeo74]

Where did you get the spacer for the 8 rounder? Another poster on an MK9 post was inquiring about one.

[Harrylee]

I have been making my own grip extensions,I really wanted one but for the 8 round mag but no one made them.Here's one I did in walnut

[jimsea]

Outstanding analysis Harry. Great job on making up the jig so people can now see what's going on in the mag tube and what parameters actually change when you mod the follower. The nay sayers will have a tough time arguing against a follower mod after seeing your jig setup.

As Muggsy said, the unmodified stock follower leaves the first round hung up on the second. The follower mod fixes that and brings the nose of the second round up to support the first round to prevent a nose dive.........two issues solved.

The follower mod allows the ammo to feed smoothly from day one of ownership without beating the crap out of your gun by slamming rounds into the base of the ramp, possibly damaging followers, and causing unnecessary wear and tear. And, it allows you to "tap, rack, and shoot" in a tactical/defensive situation in the event of a malfunction.

Just a note that on the 6 round mag you don't have to come down as far in the back but the front is the same as shown on your mod. Harry, instead of hand sanding these followers, you should make up a jig to allow them to be machined. It would be quicker, more precise, and you could probably sell a truck load here and elsewhere. :Amflag2:

[Harrylee]

Yes i know Jim but I carry the 8 round the cold months of the year as you can wear heavier clothes.I found in doing this test there is no way you can make a 8 round mag support the top round fully loaded but it does work well.With that said I beleave with a lighter spring it makes things work alot better.Looking at the spring from 8 round 1911 spring next to the kahr 8 round spring it was alot longer.I don't think all that pressure is required ,I agree a 6 round does not need that severe cut 8 does now also remembr I said I put a 45 degree cut on the inside of the legs the spring was binding up on that,like I always say I just look at things a little different,sometimes right some times wrong but you need to push your self to under stand.I'm glad I got your approval on this, I took from you and built on it.I have been working on extended mag grips for awhile and like to sell some but till I can prove to everyone that 8 round will work I have nothing, I did post in the past about this, I will repost some pictures from before.As I said in my previous post I do not take all the credit the ones that came in front of me just got me started

[momo9mm45auto]

I have been making my own grip extensions,I really wanted one but for the 8 round mag but no one made them.Here's one I did in walnut

I just purchased 2 8 round mags K920G for my pm9. I see that there is a 1/2 space between the grip and the base of the gun mag area and this does NOT feel to good!

I am new to all of this. I also looked for a longer mag grip that would be flush to the gun, but no sells them.

HOW would I go about making one like yours????

Thanks

Mo

[Tilos]

Harrylee:
Thanks for the work you've done and sharing it with us.
Tilos

[Bawanna]

Very well done Harrylee. A real neat visual aid.

I think this is worthy of sticky status but do I want to limit it to the PM/CM. Same would apply to all 9's.

I shall ponder this dilemma and see if it is spoken.

Ok, hows about I move this thread to the Kahr Tech section and grant thee sticky status? Anyone second this motion before we smoke the peace pipe?

[deadeye]

Agreed. Great info.

[LorenzoB]

Very nice work indeed! I've been wanting to machine a follower out of metal for a while. I wanted to address the issues with them breaking (especially on the .40's). And also incorporate modifications as you did. I was even looking at other designs completely (like the beretta 92 mags) where the follower is not forced to only move up and down, but allowed to change angle as the stack size changes. Your jig shows clearly what is going on in there. Thanks!

[sas PM9]

Very well done Harrylee. A real neat visual aid.

I think this is worthy of sticky status but do I want to limit it to the PM/CM. Same would apply to all 9's.

I shall ponder this dilemma and see if it is spoken.

Ok, hows about I move this thread to the Kahr Tech section and grant thee sticky status? Anyone second this motion before we smoke the peace pipe?

B:

Yes, seconded.

-steve

[man1nboat]

Good pics

[yqtszhj]

I had forgot about this post. Excellent there Harrylee.

[BucketBack]

I had forgot about this post also. Well until my 7 round mag had a nosedive on my New to me yesterday CM9

[Redfish]

Aha! Bet that will also reduce the number of broken mag followers as well by reducing pressure on the front which is connectd by a very thin piece of plastic.

[Redfish]

Kahr seriously needs to redesign their mag follower.

[CJCM9]

This looks like a great mod. I was noticing the strange gap between the top round and the following one. Good explanation.

[JohnQ]

Id like to learn more about this follower mod, are there others out there who have done this and had the same success?

The blurry picture, as noted, is a bit blurry. Could someone describe what is actually going on with the "45° angle" on the "ears"?

Did you keep the ramp angle where the cartridge sits the same angle just down to a .415 when measured in the picture? or did you actually steepen the angle?

[smokersteve]

Harry,
Send a picture to Kahr. As many issues as they have with their followers they should appreciate the help.

[Tilos]

Id like to learn more about this follower mod, are there others out there who have done this and had the same success?

The blurry picture, as noted, is a bit blurry. Could someone describe what is actually going on with the "45° angle" on the "ears"?

Did you keep the ramp angle where the cartridge sits the same angle just down to a .415 when measured in the picture? or did you actually steepen the angle?
this thread is a sticky in the new members area
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14747

[JohnQ]

Yes Ive been looking into this for a while and saw that thread, however it wasnt as detailed as to how much to take off other than "eyeballing".

This follower mod "looks" to change the angle of the ramp (which the one that you provided the link to does not).

When im measuring out .415 as the picture suggests im getting very, very, low on the follower, like to the point where its almost impossible without putting a hole through to the other side.

[Tilos]

Where the new surface ends near the front and the thickness (old/new) at the rear, defines the angle and it can be calculated, but I'm not sure why knowing the angle would help you.
Mark these 2 reference points and start sanding, adjusting the angle so the new surface ends at the marks.
Buy a couple of $6 followers and having them on hand when doing this mod, will keep you from not having a functional mag should you "oops' one.
:D

The purpose of this mod is to increase the spring pressure towards the front of the mag, to reduce the fanning of the ammo in the mag.

[Harrylee]

Don’t get to this section much but I see guys want to know a little more. When doing the mod I only cut down the back leaving the front pretty much intact giving a much steeper angle which helps push the front up more here is another write up I did showing some more photos

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?16873-8-round-mags-will-work-in-cm9-I-will-show-you-how

[Handy]

Which type of mag spring was this test performed with? I'm curious if Kahr went to the W profile mag springs from the Z style specifically to increase the pressure on the follower nose.