Kahr barrels for other calibers

[nass]

Okay, this is going to sound like a dumb question to some and a "I was wondering that myself" question to others. I did a search in the forums for .357 Sig - now you know where this is going - because I want a .357 Sig barrel for my Kahr. I have owned 2 CW9s in the past and a CW45 and I liked them just fine I just didn't LOVE them. I'm really liking the CM40 at this point but I figured, "If I'm going with a .40 I might as well go ahead and find a .357 Sig. In case you are wondering, I love the .357 Sig round and considering I have quite a bit of ammo for it saved up and several guns in this caliber already (P229, M&P357c, Glock 31, blah blah blah) I would like to stay the course.

I don't want people to tell me that its a silly little caliber or that its a dumb idea. I want to be told WHY it would be a BAD idea to chase this project down. Considering the Kahrs I've had, I never paid any attention to slide wear or anything like that. I know the recoil spring on the CM40 is stiff and I suspect it will tolerate the recoil but off the top of anyone's head, do you know what kind of frame issues I may be looking at? Are we talking battered frame and slide? I'm about 99% sure it will void the warranty and I go forward knowing that.

Biggest reason I'm asking is that if it IS doable I may offer .357 Sig barrels on here and in shop. The CM guns are vastly easier to get my hands on than the M&P shield and to be quite honest, I think they look nicer (I'm a sucker for stainless). A little info would be great.

[getsome]

Hi nass and welcome to Kahrtalk...The subject of a Kahr in .357 Sig has been talked about before and others have wondered the same thing....I don't see any frame issues being a problem as the PM40's haven't had any problems that I'm aware of...If you could find someone to manufacture a .357 Sig barrel to Kahrs specs it should thoretically work but the magazine follower might need some changes made to prevent nose dive but that may or may not be an issue...

If you do go ahead with the conversion it most definitely will void the warranty but you state thats not a problem for you...There are other members here with much more technical and gunsmithing experience like one of our Mod's Greg that will be able to weigh in on the frame strength and wear deal so I am interested what they will say about this idea...

The .357 Sig is a fine cartridge and would fill a nitch in the Kahr line up but as it is they are selling everything they can push out the door with the current models offered and a .357 Sig would likely be a small market segment for them and not worth adding to the catalog at this time....There is a much greater interest here for Kahr to offer a .22 Long Rifle caliber in a P380 size or smaller frame....Now THOSE would sell like hotcakes IMPO....

Good luck with the conversion project if you decide to go with it and again welcome aboard...There are many nice knowledgeable folks here and the forum is growing by leaps and bounds so it's good to see another new member!!!...:yo:

[Barth]

The question of a 357 Kahr has been asked before.
HK has discontinued making guns in 357 Sig.
Apparently due to lack of demand and cost.
The ammo is generally harder to find and/or more expensive.
I have four handguns chambered in 357 Sig.
And if online ammo sales are banned getting ammo will be an issue for me.

357 Sig really seems to be fading into a non mainstream caliber.
And may go the way of the 10 mm.

I have gotten 40 S&W barrels and mags for most of my 357 guns.
Really don't think there is much of a market for a 357 Sig Kahr.

Cor Bon makes a 135 gr 1325 fps 40 S&W that closely approximates 357 Sig ballistics.
http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/CB4013520.jpg

[nass]

I don't think the .357 will fade into obscurity like the 10mm will. I don't know of a single police department that uses 10mm but I know plenty that use the .357 - granted not as many as 9mm, .40, or .45. Secret Service still uses it, Texas Highway Patrol, Air Marshals, New Mexico State Police, NC Highway Patrol, Tennessee Highway Patrol, Delaware State Police, and in fact the county I live in issues them to their deputies. There are still a number of groups that use them and for that reason I think it valid.

Now that said, does Kahr need to ramp up and produce a .357 Sig anything? Nah, probably would lose money on it. I talked with Storm Lake and they said they would do it if there was a volume order - I have no idea what "volume" is in terms of numbers. I figure 100+.

Oh and I'm going to catch hell for this one, I don't like 40. If I can't make a .357 barrel happen I will do down to a 9mm.

[Barth]

Glock GAP .45 is still used by some LE as well.
I'm thinking there are more manufacturers making guns chambered for 10mm than GAP 45.
Other than Sig Sauer, that was instrumental in developing the 357 Sig,
there aren't a lot of guns still being manufactured for it.
Sig Sauer, Glock, S&W and maybe a few more???

I don't think it's going away.
But I don't think it's mainstream either.

[jocko]

I agree with Barth, It will in time dissappear like the 10mm. Whjether it wasor is a good round is not important, it is demand that sells andonce a mfg-er see's it ain't going anywhere, it willdie a slow death. ammo ain't cheap. don't see alot around unless ur in a big gun shop. Ihardly see any 357 sigs in gun cases. Like the 32NAA round, gone but not forgotten.

good question to ask storm lake to, is what is "quantity". and then when is price??

They won't make any money on a100 bbls, so it would be pricey indeed. I don't forsee kahr steppinginto a 357 sig either. they have the 40 and whether one likes it or not it more than fills that niche area..

[nass]

I think the .357 will last quite a bit longer than the 32NAA. I don't recall the .32NAA ever really catching on. I know it may have been popular for some, but I don't recall winchester, remington, federal, or speer every making any ammo for it.

To be fair though, most gun shops lowball people that are trying to sell their .357s back.

Oh well.

[RRP]

Although you didn't want this thread to focus on the merits of the 357 Sig cartridge, that's the direction it has gone. Lemme try to reel us back to the question.

Since you have a Glock, let's use them as an example. You know that a G32 barrel will fit into a G23 and effectively convert the G23 from .40 to 357. And you can use the same magazines for both. You'd like to do the same with a Kahr PM40 to 357 Sig. In the process of doing that, here are some things I would consider:

The first challenge will be to find a barrel, since Kahr does not produce one. I'm sure you can have one machined, but at what cost?

The second question is whether the tiny Kahr subcompact polymer frames can take repeated pounding from the higher pressure cartridge. I can't answer that with any data or authority, but I can't imagine it would be any worse than shooting +P+ .40 loads. Maybe the folks at Kahr can tell you if it's been tried.

Another consideration is how comfortable a subcompact Kahr would be to shoot, if chambered for 357 Sig. And, if the weapon will be used for self defense, how quickly can you reacquire the target, assuming there will be some muzzle rise in such a small package.

Lastly, if you are involved in a self defense shooting using a weapon you have modified, your legal defense may be much more complicated. For me, this is reason enough not to modify an EDC. But that wouldn't deter me from playing with my range toys.

Keep us posted on this. I'd like to see how this goes and what you learn from Kahr and others who may have tried it.

[Barth]

The second question is whether the tiny Kahr subcompact polymer frames can take repeated pounding from the higher pressure cartridge. I can't answer that with any data or authority, but I can't imagine it would be any worse than shooting +P+ .40 loads. Maybe the folks at Kahr can tell you if it's been tried.

There is no recognized SAAMI rating for 40 S&W in +P or +P+.
Any manufacturer that claims such a load is making up the rating.

SAAMI 40 S&W 35,000 psi
SAMMI 357 Sig 40,000 psi

[CJB]

I'm thinkin' like the ol' man that I am.

The 10mm was... still is... a fantastic cartridge. I built one up before Colt did the Delta Elite. Fantastic power in a small size. Had to use Wilson 45 mags (which work ok still for 10mm) until Colt finally ramped up 10mm mags. Sigh.

Another great one was the .38/.45 Clerke... designed for target use, but easily pushed to very high speeds as well.

http://i.imgur.com/xWGVr.jpg


Also shown is the extremely rare .45/.38 Clstrfck - which initially was much heralded, but never caught on due to its reported chambering difficulties.

[queevil]

I'd love to have a .357 barrel for my steel k40 Covert. Although it's pricey, ammunition isn't hard to find around here. It would probably get me into hand loading.