Thoughts on custom 10/22 vs m&p 15-22

[chrish]

So, starting to seem some light in the pricing. The rugers are back down w/in $100 of their pre-frenzy price. The 15-22 is still a bit high, but I actually am seeing some going for $550-$650 these days, so also w/in $100 of pre-frenzy.

Been wanting to do one or the other for awhile. I'm trying to decide between the 15-22 MOE version or a basic 10/22 that I would then upgrade to a tac sol aluminum barrel and Knoxx Axiom stock. Either way seems like a good choice. Both would be light w/ the Ruger probably edging it out by a pound or more after the upgrades. Ruger probably more accurate w/ the tac sol barrel. 15-22 just eliminates effort and gives me an AR trainer, also would have iron sites which the upgraded ruger would not. It would have to be solely scoped or red-dot (I assume). Both would seem to be 'kid friendly' w/ the grip size and weight. I expect both would be about the same price too, when all is said and done.

Basically, goal is a light, accurate, kid and adult friendly, plinker that _could_ server other roles later but not a priority.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Things I haven't considered?

Thanks guys and gals.

[Longitude Zero]

I would go with the M&P 15-22 because it is based upon the AR-15 style. There is a HUGE market of parts and items that can be used on AR and AR style wepons.

[wyntrout]

It depends on your budget and what you really want. I finally bought one to keep just over a year ago and bought a prepper supply of ammo... lots of several sub-sonic varieties and Stingers... a bunch of each.

I've added a simple mag release for $6 that reverses the motion required for release, a red polymer buffer pin to cut down on noise, added another 25-round mag to the Butler one and loader I already had, and added 5 more clear 10-round Ruger mags for carrying different kinds of ammo... sub-sonic vs. Stingers and so on.

I added an adjustable AR-style Sniper Scope (2-7X) that sits 2" high, but has a quick on and off lever, but the Ruger-included rail mount hides too much of the iron sights. I took all of that to the range recently and tried to determine where the bullets were going with different settings. The indoor range is only 15-yards so I'll have to try to interpolate what all of that means. I did shoot the blocked iron sights to see what they were good for, too.

At 15 yards and sitting, but with a poor rest... terry cloth hand towel and no rear rest, I could keep the bullets inside a dime and touching... when there wasn't much target movement. It takes a while for the target to settle and sometimes the adjacent stations would reel their target one way or the other and I got to shoot at a moving target, too!

Parallax IS a problem with a regular scope, especially with one that is mounted centered 2" above the axis of the bore. I haven't really tried to figure out what all of this means for ranges beyond 15 yards, yet, but I will have to!

For me, the price of an AR-type LOOKING .22LR is just too much. I wanted simple and weather resistant... got the All-Weather synthetic stocked stainless carbine model from Wal-Mart for about $238 before taxes... AND the NIC phone call!

I would rather have the new break-down model carbine, but those were just too PRICEY!

I still want to add sling mounts and a sling of some kind so I can use my hands for something else at times.

If things go to a SHTF condition, I'll throw some kind of suppressor together to keep from attracting unwanted attention from people wanting to "share" my stuff!:eek: That's why I got a lot of sub-sonic ammo. The Remington works best for me. The segmented CCI sub-sonic had deformation and feed problems... some caused by excessive WAX buildup on the feed lips of the new magazines!

I didn't "save" any money, as I spent well over a GRAND on my .22 with scope and ammo... a LOT of AMMO!

Just my 2¢! YMMV!

Wynn:)

[chrish]

Thanks guys.

Wynn, I think my gun cost will be the same. I'm not going to pay a fortune for either, I'll sit tight until prices come down. But I'm willing to pay a 'bit' more right now, and I'd have to. I really will only be buying the 10/22 for the receiver. Barrel and stock will go to the cabinet and be replaced. So I'd be looking at $300-$350 at today's prices for a 10/22 (could get lucky, but that's what I'd be willing to pay), then somewhere just below $200 for the aluminum barrel, and $75-ish for the Knoxx Axiom stock. That would come to ~$600 give or take, which is right in where I'd set my limit on a 15-22. More than that for either, and I'm not biting.

I've got a small stock of .22 due to my pistols, so ammo is not an issue. I will buy it as I find it from this point out, just like my 9mm range ammo. Not paying a premium until I get low on either.

Keep the thoughts coming...still undecided. Leaning (and have been) 15-22, but the 10/22 config (size and weight) is pretty compelling.

For those w/ both, do you find the 15-22 more reliable? I've read both opinions as I've searched the net, one or the other being more 'reliable'...seems the debate rages with no real hard-n-fast rule.

I've shot plenty of 22lr pistols and owned a number of them. Never a rifle, so this will be my first. Shot plenty of 10/22s over the years b/c everybody and their brother has a 10/22...accept me.

[JustinN]

To me those are two completely different guns....Do you want a custom, accurate rifle for targets or small game, or do you want an AR modeled gun to practice with on the cheap. That is the difference to me....IMO the point of the 15-22 is to be able to practice with your AR, but only shoot 22lr bullets.

The 10/22 on the other hand is THE go to .22 rifle. AND being as this is a Kahr Forum, have you looked into the Magnum Research rim fire rifles? It would get you what you want, from the factory I believe, especially a model like this (http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-22LR-Tactical-Black-Rifle.asp).

Building your own is cool too though. For me, I would go for the 10-22 over an AR clone, but that's just me. I know several people who have and like the AR clones, but they just don't do it for me.

[chrish]

Justin, yea, that's exactly what I'm going for, the MR gun. That's where I started w/ the idea actually. They are just super hard to find, and I also stumbled across a number of people that have built that same gun essentially, just w/ the alum barrel vs the graphite one. So I'd be happy either way, MR or custom build.

I actually ran across ONE of the MR guns on gunbroker late last year, they wanted like 1100 for it if memory serves. Not about to pay that for a .22 rifle. It wasn't a WMR, just the pricing frenzy that has hit everything .223, 9mm, .22lr these days.

I think the AR 'training' is secondary, mostly my 'leaning' toward the 15-22 was the fact that it's kinda already done. Read good things about the barrel it uses. I know it's not gonna be 'as accurate', but I'm not looking for a hunting gun or a +100yd plinker. Just something to take to the range, have fun, teach the kids to shoot, etc. Either really fits that bill, so w/ the 15-22 I do get a little extra w/ the AR configuration. Outside of the training aspect, the 15-22 is kind tacti-cool which I have historically avoided for practicality and not looking like a doofus at the range :0)

[wyntrout]

That does look like a good way to go if you want all of the special features already incorporated! It's "sexy", too! I wonder if there's a "discounted" source for those, though. I guess that Google would help, but then, again... we're in some kind of buying frenzy and prices aren't "limited" to MSRP and availability is a question, too!

http://www.magnumresearch.com/GetDynamicImage.aspx?dir=itemImages&path=SVimg-MLR22TB.jpg&w=326&h=278
.22LR Tactical Black Rifle

MLR22TB
Magnum Lite® .22LR Graphite Tactical Black Rifle
MSRP: $665.00




Weighs Under 5 Pounds
Exceptional Accuracy
.22LR - Graphite Barrels Only



Wynn:D

[JustinN]

Of course they're out of stock, but Bud's does sometimes carry the MR rifles. The last prices they're showing were all sub $600.

Here is one on Gun Broker - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=328671613

$630, no bids - less than 2 days to go....

[chrish]

Yea, most everywhere that HAS carried the MR have it for under MSRP still showing. Whether that price will hold once they show up again, who knows. But I've yet to run across anybody selling on since December when I kinda started this search/build idea. I think in the end, I'll be happy w/ any of the 3, build, MR, 15-22 ... given what I'll be using it for. It'll be fine either way.

If prices come down before I can locate or build, maybe I'll end up w/ both a 15-22 and a custom 10/22. Worse things have happened in the world.

But I have to keep my gun buying to a minimum if I can. I'm jones'n for one of the new Windham Carbon's when they hit...again, if one can be had in today's market before it's gobbled up.

[JustinN]

Sorry to double post this, but I edited my last post, then saw you had replied already Chrish - don't want you to miss this

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=328671613

[chrish]

Sorry to double post this, but I edited my last post, then saw you had replied already Chrish - don't want you to miss this

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=328671613

Ah, your gunbroker skills are better than mine! Hadn't run across that, but $825? Nah. Can't do it. But I'll add it to my watch list and see where it goes in the next 2 days.

It's just nuts ain't it?

[JustinN]

$825 is the buy it now. The starting bid is $629.99. Just bid $630. If someone beats you, so be it.....if not, congrats.

I just won a Beretta PX4 storm for $510 because like this one, the ad wasn't the best and kinda hard to find. I had just lost several PX4's in the $570 range, and then BAM, won that one for way way less. Never hurts to try.....

[Raulf]

I purchased a Umarex Colt OPS 22 LR back in OCT 2012, after 500 rds, no issues at all, it's a great 22, to macth my M4, Colt 6920.

[wyntrout]

When the Buy Now price is a lot closer to the asking price, I'll do that to preclude a last minute bidding war. Now they have the 15-minute rule, too, for bidding!

When I got my PM45, I contacted the seller for dropping the CC fee and he responded that he would include free shipping with the buy now price, so I pounced on that after he added that to the listing. It cost HIM more to ship that dropping the CC add-on of 2.5%!

Sometimes... you can get a better deal... or what you want, but after the first bid, or a bidding war, the conditions aren't in your favor if anyone else is really interested.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

OKAY! I have some news on some S&W AR-type rifles. Shooter's here in Jacksonville must have gotten a really big truck load of 1522's and the .223 AR as well.

The 15-22's are selling for $399.99

and the AR-15 version festooned with picatinny rails and adjustable stocks are $949.99.

They got a bunch and you may want to try them online and see what you can get. The price may be the same, but no tax out of state... I don't know.

I don't know if they had all of them stacked on the floor, but there was a stack about 4 or so feet by 8-10 feet that we had to walk around and I think they had more!

http://www.shootersjax.com/

They do sell online and usually have the best prices in the area.

Wynn:)

[QuercusMax]

I have an M&P 15-22 and a Ruger 10/22, and like both of them.

My 10/22 is a target model and not customised except with Leupold scope and Harris bipod. The M&P is the Perf Center version, with flash hider and Aimpoint PRO.

If I had to choose just one, I would go with the M&P. Why?


It operates (and looks) much like an AR, with which I am very comfortable, as are many others.
The mags are a more straightforward design, even if physically larger (and I have a lot of them). I don't like those little circular 10-rd mags on the 10/22, and the long, skinny BX-25 mags seem really fragile.
There is something about the operation of the 10/22 that just doesn't sit well with me - can't describe it, but I always feel like I am fighting something while the M&P feels really natural.
Weird, but I really like the way the M&P sounds.


Hard to put into words.

[itsthelaw]

I have 3 10/22s and a AR15-22 MOE with threaded barrel. The 3 10/22s are a target model and 2 carbines. Even though the S&W is a unique platform, I would trade it in a second before ANY 10/22. The 10/22s are simple, extremely accurate and proven. I truly believe that the Ruger 10/22 might be the most underrated gun at this point in history. I completely understand the similarities in training for AR operation, but I still like the 10/22s. That does not mean that I dislike the S&W at all.

From a customization standpoint, the 10/22 is unlimited and everything is extremely available. There are plenty of them on sales sites or RFC that are customized, so you can even find almost what you want.

Unlike Quercus, I like the action on the 10/22. It is like butter to the point you almost don't feel it. To me, that is a great thing. The S&W is a bit less smooth, but also great. I guess this is proof that you may want to spend time shooting both. Sounds fun! Come to western NC and you can use mine!

As soon as the prices drop a bit more, I will be buying a Takedown model.

All of this is only my opinion...

[wyntrout]

The 15-22's at Shooters have threaded barrels and if I didn't already have the 10/22 I would buy one. I really thought about it while I was there! I couldn't believe one woman was being turned down for buying any more of the .223 models because she had already bought 30!

I DID think about the .223 but I want a .308 WIN or 7.62x51mm NATO... a HEAVY hitter for a real "assault" rifle! I just don't want to have to amass ammo and magazines for one... at today's prices!!

Wynn:)

[Scoundrel]

Lots of good suggestions/opinions on this thread too: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14741

[CJB]

I built up a 10/22 custom. Great rifle. Iron sights on mine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/P1210136.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/P1220141.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/P1220146.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/P1220143.jpg

I still need to re-coat (2nd coat) the front sight adapter. Still need to micro align the barrel, and bed the action into the stock. Its a work in progress!

[chrish]

Guys, thanks for all the feedback, great thread. I haven't been all that crazy about the Knoxx/Blackhawk stock. I've laid hands on them occasionally, and they are OK, but not great. In reading this thread and then the gunbroker lin that got me searching gunbroker again, I ran across the link below and then did some research on youtube and web reviews. I think I'm gonna go w/ this (MLR22AT). Better stock, just as light, full stock, floating barrel, all the MR goodness.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=328266128

Unfortunately, I may miss this one, timing. Need to unload my P9 first. Funding is not the issue, but internal management approval due to prior expenditures. I kinda went nuts w/ ammo and gun purchases in 2012 :-) and gotta lay low.

[JustinN]

That is a nice rifle....but I feel you on the laying low. Since November I've bought 5 guns, I don't know how much ammo, and a reloading setup...Laying low is paramount at this point, or as I've said before, I'm going to be shacking up with Bawanna and his knife collection.

[Alfonse]

Those are nice rifles, particularly if they can be had in the $600 range.

[chrish]

So, anybody got a couch!? No, seriously, didn't turn out to be an issue, but I lost my mind yesterday and put a bid on it and won it. So, new MLR22AT in my near future. Now just have to figure out what optic I want on it. This should prove to be way more of a money hole than any of my pistols have ever been. If I didn't have a stockpile of 22LR from shooting pistols, I probably wouldn't have done it. Shooting 22LR is now as expensive as shooting 9mm used to be. Stupid.

Now I begin the search for a scope and mags. I know, good luck on the mags, but I'll just keep feeding the single 10 rounder until I find some sanity in the pricing of BX-25 or even the 10 round mags. They are both stupid expensive right now.

I guess now my question is thoughts on a scope. I toyed around w/ just doing a Bushnell TRS-25 on it, but that seems to defeat the purpose/capability of this rifle. So now I'm looking at $100 - $300 scopes. Bushnell Banner 3-9 illuminated, Burris Fullfield E1 3-9 illuminated (yikes! expensive!), Nikon ProStaff rimfire. Any experience w/ any of these or others I should add to my list? Only reason I'm considering the illum models is that my range is kinda down in a hollow and can be a bit dark at the 100yd+ point certain times of the day. I'm leaning toward the Bushnell b/c of the price, I'd be hard pressed to fork out $300 for a scope at this point.

[wyntrout]

The higher powers might be good for varmint hunting, but I prefer 1.5x or 2x lower power for sighting at closer ranges. A good full-sized scope in 1-5x or 2-7x for a .22 would be my advice. I want to be able to shoot stuff close up and find it quickly... hard to do with much magnification. That's what I always go for my pellet rifles... 1.5-5x variables.

Wynn:)

[chrish]

The higher powers might be good for varmint hunting, but I prefer 1.5x or 2x lower power for sighting at closer ranges. A good full-sized scope in 1-5x or 2-7x for a .22 would be my advice. I want to be able to shoot stuff close up and find it quickly... hard to do with much magnification. That's what I always go for my pellet rifles... 1.5-5x variables.

Wynn:)

Anybody make anything 2-7 w/ an illuminated reticle, even just a dot? I think 75% of the time, standard non-illuminated cross-hairs will do me just fine at my range...so maybe I should just skip that.

Yea, I kinda felt 3x would be too much for close stuff <=25yds.

I'll start checking out the lower range zooms as well. Thanks.

[Alfonse]

I have a Leupold 3x9 on a 10-22. I have shot a friend's Nikon with the BDC reticule. I much prefer it.

BTW, that's a beautiful rifle. Until this thread, I did not realize what a great value the MR rimfires are.

[chrish]

I have a Leupold 3x9 on a 10-22. I have shot a friend's Nikon with the BDC reticule. I much prefer it.

BTW, that's a beautiful rifle. Until this thread, I did not realize what a great value the MR rimfires are.

You prefer the Luepold or the Nikon?

Thanks for the kudos, I think it looks nice as well. No experience w/ nice 'target-ish' 22 rifles. But many reviews indicate its about the best bang-for-the-buck and is near match grade w/o spending a lot more. I think it'll be more accurate than I am. My eyes are shot, I'm cross dominant, so this should be a fun adventure.

Also, what do you guys know about Meuller, specifically this. 2-7, with illuminated red dot. Seems like it might be the ticket if the glass/optical quality is good. I'm a diva when it comes to glass, not from guns, but cameras. I'd prefer a 40mm objectives, this is 32. But don't think I'm gonna find a 2-7, illuminated, 40mm.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/mueller-optical-2-7x32mm-multishot-waterproof-riflescope.html

[chrish]

Right, wrong, or indifferent, I just ordered the following after a couple of days of reading up on scopes, 22s w/ scopes, target shooting, etc. I have zero idea what I'm doing, but at this price I can try it and see how it does. I can always 'buy up' to a Burris or something better later.

http://www.hawkeoptics.com/hawke-sport-hd-ir-riflescopes/hawke-sport-hd-ir-2-7x32-ao.html

My LGS ordered one (will be here in a couple days) for $100. Seems to be a decent brand, the owner/manager said he had 8 Hawke scopes on handguns and rifles and loved them, so that was good enough for me. They look to be a mid-range product, which should be fine to put holes in paper or plink with.

Anybody have a Hawke?