New Cm9 trigger restriking?

[tkosiba]

Successfully shot 100 round, no malfunctions.A few days later working the slide and dry firing, noticed the trigger would restrike multiple times without racking slide.
Did a quick cleaning and trigger restrike still occurs.
Any thoughts?

[jocko]

what do u mean by restrike. is that like just pulling the trigger and the gun acting like it is firing. If u move the slide about a 1/4" it will reset but other wise onc eu pullthe trigger afdter that nuttin should happen until the slide retract enough to reset the trigger. I do not see how in gods greenacre the gun can act like a continius double action. Unless I am mis understand the restrike thing/

[tkosiba]

I can rack the slide and click the trigger multiple times, over and over again.

[jocko]

do u feel it actually pulllijg back the striker every time or areu justhearing a click5. Know in g how kahrs work I just can't see how that can actually happen. If u had a fired casing u could stick that casing i the chamber and actually see if the striker was hitting that fired primer more thanonce. It should show indentations..

[Bawanna]

Don't seem possible. One rack of the slide and then you can pull the trigger, feel resistance and then hear the striker fall and you can do this over and over without pulling the slide back at all?

I can't visualize that happening.

[Bawanna]

do u feel it actually pulllijg back the striker every time or areu justhearing a click5. Know in g how kahrs work I just can't see how that can actually happen. If u had a fired casing u could stick that casing i the chamber and actually see if the striker was hitting that fired primer more thanonce. It should show indentations..

Or better yet take a pencil with a good eraser and drop it down the barrel, point towards the ceiling and pull the trigger. Should launch the pencil. Then retrieve it and drop it down again without pulling the slide and see if it launches again.

I can't imagine it's possible but I've been wrong before. I think it 1958 but I might be wrong on that too.

[tkosiba]

I have shot many platforms, 1911, Glock, etc.There is definitely a heavy pull and a striker release. Not just a simple, light, click.
Sometimes after several restrikes, the trigger will reset with no resistance, like normal.

[RevRay]

Man ... I'm getting real paranoid.

First there's a guy on another thread with a stuck slide that has all the experts stuck.

And now here's a guy on this thread with a trigger that's never stuck and that has all the experts stuck.

I'm at least six weeks away from getting my permit and taking possession of my CM9 waiting at the gun store for me ... what's going to be wrong with mine when I finally get it in my trembling hands?

[jocko]

bawanna suggestion is PROOFF IN THE PUDDIN. If it shoots a penncil after that first trigger pull, then sumpin is not right, although some might like whatur gunis doin to. kinda like a double striked thing in case of a misfire. If it will shoot apencil as far as the first trigger pull then u got sumpin i cannot explain...
test the colonels suggestion, kills me to say it, but it is the best suggestion.

[jocko]

Man ... I'm getting real paranoid.

First there's a guy on another thread with a stuck slide that has all the experts stuck.

And now here's a guy on this thread with a trigger that's never stuck and that has all the experts stuck.

I'm at least six weeks away from getting my permit and taking possession of my CM9 waiting at the gun store for me ... what's going to be wrong with mine when I finally get it in my trembling hands?

when u get home and take ur cm9 out of the box it probably will actully be a kel tek pf9. It couldhappen u know

:Amflag2:

[Bawanna]

Man ... I'm getting real paranoid.

First there's a guy on another thread with a stuck slide that has all the experts stuck.

And now here's a guy on this thread with a trigger that's never stuck and that has all the experts stuck.

I'm at least six weeks away from getting my permit and taking possession of my CM9 waiting at the gun store for me ... what's going to be wrong with mine when I finally get it in my trembling hands?

The experts haven't arrived to this thread yet. Me I'm a poser, Jocko is probably closer to an expert than most.

I can't see it resetting itself, just don't seem possible.

Your's will probably be just fine. Don't worry till ya got something to worry about and not even then. We'll figure it out or after a trip to the mother ship they will figure it out.

Unless it is a Kel Tec, then i don't think there's a cure for that.

[JFootin]

Man ... I'm getting real paranoid.

First there's a guy on another thread with a stuck slide that has all the experts stuck.

And now here's a guy on this thread with a trigger that's never stuck and that has all the experts stuck.

I'm at least six weeks away from getting my permit and taking possession of my CM9 waiting at the gun store for me ... what's going to be wrong with mine when I finally get it in my trembling hands?

Ray, you are reading posts from 2 people on a Kahr forum. What you are not seeing is the thousands and thousands of happy CM9 owners, of whom only a few come here and post their satisfaction with ther CM9s. Don't get your panties in a wad. Read a few dozen of the posts in this thread:

Kahr PM and CM Series Positive Feedback - Post Yours! (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13168)

[tkosiba]

OK. Tried pencil down barrel. No push out.Took gun apart and oiled in front of striker/cam hole. Parts seem to lock and snap. Plunger springing properly.


Called tech. support and individual advised he never heard of this problem. Only to send back. Removing striker cover voids warranty. Hmm...


Bottom line, racking slide is not cocking striker. Any other thoughts? Hate to return over a burr or something. Worked on Glocks and 1911's. Doesn't seem too complex. Any thoughts?

[tkosiba]

Another thought, when properly cocked, how far back does striker return? 1/8" or much further. Maybe striker is stuck in channel from dry fire?

[tkosiba]

Researched cocking cam and realized, it's probably the bottom, not the upper slide.After a more thorough inspection of high cam angle to release slide plunger/striker, noticed some left edge micro jagged marks. Best guess, it's sliding cam issue.


Can the experts chime in? I'm told they are out there :-).

[Scoundrel]

Researched cocking cam and realized, it's probably the bottom, not the upper slide.After a more thorough inspection of high cam angle to release slide plunger/striker, noticed some left edge micro jagged marks. Best guess, it's sliding cam issue.


Can the experts chime in? I'm told they are out there :-).

Usually takes them day or so to notice that their divine intervention is required. Hang in there. :)

[Scoundrel]

When an "expert" does arrive, pictures will really help.

With your slide assembled but disconnected from the frame, try putting the pencil in it, and manually pulling the striker back 1/4 inch and letting it go. You'll need to hold down the striker safety button. Mine kicked the pencil out of the barrel. See if yours moves freely and kicks the pencil out.

Also post some pictures of your frame, specifically the cocking cam. See my pictures below, with the trigger released, and again with the trigger pulled. Check yours to see if it looks like mine, but please do post pics of yours if you can.

Try to get a good focus in the pics. Here's a good way to do that: Don't zoom way in. Take the pic from further back, then crop the photo to only include the bits you want to show us.

[KoolBreeze]

Removing striker cover voids warranty. Hmm...


Kahr told you that? Interesting. That's kind of crazy. The very first thing I did when I got my CM9 was detail strip the slide and clean it. I'm not sure how they'd enforce that, since there isn't anyway for them to know you've disassembled it.

[Scoundrel]

Kahr told you that? Interesting. That's kind of crazy. The very first thing I did when I got my CM9 was detail strip the slide and clean it. I'm not sure how they'd enforce that, since there isn't anyway for them to know you've disassembled it.

Page 17 of the manual:

For normal cleaning, the KAHR pistol should only be dismantled into its main components:

Slide
Barrel
Recoil Spring with Recoil Spring Guide
Frame
Magazine

DO NOT DISMANTLE THE PISTOL FURTHER THAN THE MAIN COMPONENTS DESCRIBED ABOVE (except magazine). To do so may create an unsafe condition and affect the pistol's Warranty.

But of course, many people on this forum do it anyway, and I'm not saying they shouldn't.

[newCW45guy]

Successfully shot 100 round, no malfunctions.A few days later working the slide and dry firing, noticed the trigger would restrike multiple times without racking slide.
Did a quick cleaning and trigger restrike still occurs.
Any thoughts?

*Impossible* given the action's design.

Yeah you might be able to pull the trigger fully without reset but no restrike is gonna happen. EVER!

[newCW45guy]

I can rack the slide and click the trigger multiple times, over and over again.

If it didn't go bang on the first.. the result will be the same. The trigger will not reset and the only trigger you feel will be the trigger spring. It can't no way no how double strike.

This is a way out there thread.. either baiting or someone totally clueless to striker fired actions.

[Scoundrel]

That's pretty harsh judgement there, guy. Might want to read the whole thread before tearing the guy apart, and maybe we should wait for some photos too.

[tkosiba]

OK Scoundrel, here is what I found out:
Depressing the slide plunger (and holding it down) allowed me to pull the striker bar back and release. NO PENCIL MOVEMENT. It ended up in the starting position of your picture.
Depressing the slide plunger, allowed me to move the striker bar forward, exposing firing pin.
By "not" depressing slide plunger, ALSO allowed me to pull the striker bar back, ending in same start position (not sure if this is meaningful).


BTW, my frame is like your photos too.


I had a Glock striker that I had to remove to polish out. Polishing is more common with MIM parts. Your thoughts now?

[jocko]

hel u can take that back cover off. kahr is doing this to CYA no more no less. Hell they have sent owners here new strikers, new striker spring.s WTF are u supposed to do. 'WISH IT IN".

If thegun is firing and working OK then I am not sur ethere is an issue here either.

That cocking cam works with alittle spring that one cannot see or realy get to without the side place come off and alot of work. But u can check it to see if the spring si OK buy just flicking that cocking cam back and forth, if it goes back by itself, then the spring is OK. Ihave only heard of two of these little springs ever breaking,but it is easy to check out with the flicking thing. Once that striker is release, that cocking cam cannot again pull back that striker unless the slide is raced at leat a 1/4", inorder forthe striker tab to get again behind the cocking cam. If it doesnt shoot a pencil twice out of the barrel test, thenit is not reseting and IMO, is OK.

[Bawanna]

Will it eject a pencil with the gun put together, slide racked and pencil dropped down the barrel?

The fact that it won't do so doing what Scoundrel said is perplexing. You can hold the button down and pull the striker back or push it forward but when you drop the pencil down and work it against the spring it doesn't move?

But it did shoot without issue during the first range visit.

I'm not sure we have a problem.

I do agree with Scoundrel and that was a bit harsh NewCW45guy. We're here to help not criticize and if indeed we do encounter a baiter or a troll, I'll take care of it.

[jocko]

OK Scoundrel, here is what I found out:
Depressing the slide plunger (and holding it down) allowed me to pull the striker bar back and release. NO PENCIL MOVEMENT. It ended up in the starting position of your picture.
Depressing the slide plunger, allowed me to move the striker bar forward, exposing firing pin.
By "not" depressing slide plunger, ALSO allowed me to pull the striker bar back, ending in same start position (not sure if this is meaningful).


BTW, my frame is like your photos too.


I had a Glock striker that I had to remove to polish out. Polishing is more common with MIM parts. Your thoughts now?

I am reading it wrong, the striker block is working like it should. indeed once the striker is brought back far enough for the striker block to pop up, the striker cannot go forward, but u can pull the striker further back manually but releasing it will not let it go past that striker block uless that block is depressed.tjhe cocking cam does both at the same time. It is pulling the slide back while the cam porting on the cocking camis now pushing down the striker block at perfect unison to allow the striker to go forward and produce the bang thing.

[Scoundrel]

Let's start with terminology. Look in your manual on page 7 for the exploded diagram. The button that you depress to allow the striker to go forward is called the Striker Block (item #7 in the diagram). I called it a striker safety button above. The firing pin is called the Striker (item #20).

Let's do another test/comparison:

First, look at the striker hole in the slide, where it comes out and hits the primer. Do you see the tip of the striker in the hole, recessed slightly?

Now depress the striker block and push the striker forward. Mine moves a little less than 1/8" forward. Look at the pic below showing how far my striker moves forward when I push the block and push the striker forward.

Then look at the striker hole in the slide again. Is the tip of the striker sticking out of the hole? It should be. Look at my pics below.

[gb6491]

Successfully shot 100 round, no malfunctions.A few days later working the slide and dry firing, noticed the trigger would restrike multiple times without racking slide.
Did a quick cleaning and trigger restrike still occurs.
Any thoughts?
I may have missed mention of it (other than in the quoted post) so let me ask, does the gun still shoot live ammo successfully?
Regards,
Greg

[Scoundrel]

Good "sanity check" question.

[jocko]

nice photos scoundredl. excellent job. In the worst case scenario I just cannot see a second strike with the kahr system.

[Scoundrel]

Yep. I don't think we can really find out much more until we hear back on:
1. Does it still fire normally, and
2. Let's get some photos from the OP.

I'd also like clarification from post #13:


OK. Tried pencil down barrel. No push out.
Do you mean that it won't ever push the pencil out, or just not on the "restrikes"?
If you rack it, point it at a 45 degree angle upward, drop the pencil in, and pull the trigger, does the pencil jump out?
Then, without racking it again, do it again, and what happens?

[jocko]

IMO it would be very difficult to send the gun back to kahr,if the gun fires and ejects OK..

[tkosiba]

Here is a technical response:

My slide is like Scoundrel's pic. Depress striker block, press forward striker. And striker tip protrudes like photo and is locked in place. When I push pin/striker back, striker block "snaps" up in place.


Gun originally shot fine. Now when I rack slide, no heavy (normal) trigger release, only I milder click and reset is a click, again, again.


Tried pencil assembled and disassembled. I noticed no striker sticking out when I manually hold down striker block. With striker block depressed, and striker pulled back and released, striker stops "in the start position", not all the way forward showing firing pin. That's why pencil doesn't move.

[Scoundrel]

I my non-expert, non-professional opinion, here's what's wrong with it:
"It's broke as hell."

Seriously, I am not sure what else to say. It sounds like your striker is working OK. When I pull mine back and release it with the block held down, it smacks forward, and then goes back to the original position very quickly. I had my pinky in front of the hole when I did this and felt the striker hit my pinky.

If you're saying that with the gun assembled, you rack the slide and pull the trigger, and it doesn't feel like the trigger assembly is pulling the striker back a little more and releasing it, then I'd hazard a guess that the problem is in the frame.

But if all of the photos look like mine, and you can't see any evidence of damage, and everything seems to move like it should, then it really sounds like you should just send it back to Kahr. They'll fix it up for you.


What about the question of what happens when you put live ammo in it? Several of us are burning to hear the answer to that one.

We'd also like to see some photos. I don't think I can help anymore without good photos. I see you're at 10 posts so you can't upload any, but if you know how to use putfile or some other similar service, you can link to them. Or if you PM me, I'll give you an e-mail address to send them to, and I'll upload them for you.

[tkosiba]

Scoundrel

Sent PM. Tks.

[jocko]

have u taken the slide apart via te slide disassembly stickyo the kahr tech section. U reallynee dto know if that strikerhannel is clear ..

[tkosiba]

Ok. Lets try some pics.




http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo122/tkosiba/CM9/ba89dc196a445e697cc2c4e674de9743.jpg

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo122/tkosiba/CM9/fe3d54b13e17da071d63b29eb61fb527.jpg


http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo122/tkosiba/CM9/3351b800a3e8617c8e128d2fff7bb16d.jpg


http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo122/tkosiba/CM9/580f4de5243b717666e2b3e6c5060525.jpg


http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo122/tkosiba/CM9/d07b8d6ece3a8f3ef921b7f48e6c84d2.jpg

[tkosiba]

Seems like the striker released with block down is showing thru. Maybe I just need to manually work it to loosen it up?

[Bawanna]

Maybe your not releasing it fast enough for the striker to hit the pin.

I'd go back, put it together. Rack the slide, drop a pencil down the barrel and pull the trigger. The pencil should fly out of the barrel with gusto.

Then don't rack the slide or do anything but put the pencil back down the barrel and pull the trigger again, it should do nothing at all.

It looks completely normal. Nothing out of place, the striker seems to have plenty of protrusion.

I'm not seeing a problem.

I'd hit the range and try shooting again and see if anything isn't right. Maybe your just feeling resistance in the trigger and it's not resetting. Has to be, it can't reset itself without racking the slide. Can't happen.

[MW surveyor]

Look, you guys have got to figure this out! I'm getting impatient here waiting to get the final verdict!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it really broken or not? Is a true double action cocking the striker with each trigger pull? Come on already.

[Scoundrel]

Seems like the striker released with block down is showing thru. Maybe I just need to manually work it to loosen it up?

I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you try to rephrase it?

Maybe I'm just determined to find a problem, but looking at the photos, I noticed that the cam which pushes the striker block looks all chewed up. Shouldn't cause the problem you're seeing, but I might be tempted to send it back just for that.

I also noticed that your striker seems to move further forward than mine. Have a look at my photos and see if you think so.

If this were my CM9, I'd be taking that back plate off and pulling the striker out to have a look at it and the channel. We've seen broken strikers before. It was a P380, not a CM9, but I think the behavior you're reporting could be a broken striker.

See this thread: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8838
The symptoms sound familiar.

[tkosiba]

If its a broken striker, how can it retract?

And can the chewed up side of cam be caused from back and forth motion taking off the slide?

[jocko]

How about doin allthis fourm and those who are trying to help u with sumpin that we even arent sure there is a problem. How about taking that slide all the way down, (leave the extractor area along if u feel like it) and check that striker channel out, and then blow clean it with some type of cleaner. Put it all back together and then take it out and sHOOT 50 rounds through it and THEN give us a report. Might just be me but I'm not seein a problem here.. Right now we all guessin and that in itself is not a good thing.

[gb6491]

Maybe your not releasing it fast enough for the striker to hit the pin.

I'd go back, put it together. Rack the slide, drop a pencil down the barrel and pull the trigger. The pencil should fly out of the barrel with gusto.

Then don't rack the slide or do anything but put the pencil back down the barrel and pull the trigger again, it should do nothing at all.

It looks completely normal. Nothing out of place, the striker seems to have plenty of protrusion.

I'm not seeing a problem.

I'd hit the range and try shooting again and see if anything isn't right. Maybe your just feeling resistance in the trigger and it's not resetting. Has to be, it can't reset itself without racking the slide. Can't happen.
Just a note here: use a pencil with that has a flat (un-sharpened) end and position that end over the striker hole. I've found that the eraser end can be too soft to give an accurate indication of striker function. For example, here's my CW9 (I've never had a light strike with it) and a pencil, then the back end of a "BIC" style pin:View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/160y0zm/6)
Regards,
Greg

[Scoundrel]

Just a note here: use a pencil with that has a flat (un-sharpened) end and position that end over the striker hole. I've found that the eraser end can be too soft to give an accurate indication of striker function. For example, here's my CW9 (I've never had a light strike with it) and a pencil, then the back end of a "BIC" style pin:View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/160y0zm/6)
Regards,
Greg

I used a ballpoint pen minus the cap. Held at 45 degree up angle. The pen flew about 2 feet.

[Scoundrel]

If its a broken striker, how can it retract?
From that thread I linked of the P380 with the broken striker:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4450&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1317989807
Note how the striker can still be pulled back, and can still shove the pin forward. Maybe yours is fully detached like this one, or maybe it's dangling.


And can the chewed up side of cam be caused from back and forth motion taking off the slide?

I don't see anything in your slide that would have done that damage, unless there is an alignment problem we can't see when it's apart.

I have three suggestions for you, and it's all I can do with the information available:

1. Go try and shoot the thing with live ammo and report back.
2. Take that back plate off, pull the striker assembly out, and check out the striker and channel (and send us pictures). Here's a how-to (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=179601&d=1250637090).
3. Send it back to Kahr for repair.