New CM40 Owner - Gun will not breakdown

[Dyno Dan]

Howdy all, just looking for a little guidance and insight into my dilemma.

I purchased CM40, serial number JN1905 back on Janurary 3rd, 2013. I’m relatively new to pistols, the only others that I own are a Taurus Judge Magnum and a Springfield Armory XD-40. I bought the CM40 with the intent to carry this gun once I was certified to do so, that being said I’m scheduled for a class to meet those requirements on March 9th.

I have run around 80 rounds through my new CM40 with the intent of working towards breaking it in as per the user manual (200 rounds). With the first 40 rounds I had 4 instances where a round failed to chamber properly. These occurrences were isolated to FMJ rounds that had a “flat nose”, while the JHP rounds I was using in a different session never had any issues. After approximately 40 rounds I broke the gun down into the major components per the manual and cleaned the gun accordingly. Just a few days ago I had 3 clips ready to go with FMJ rounds that I mentioned above, and I was attempting to verify that a good cleaning, etc would contribute to having the gun function properly. Unfortunately the gun lodged a few of the FMJ bullets on the ramp of the barrel and I needed to manually extract the bullet. Searching for answers on this same forum, I read a few stickies and thought it would be a good idea to check my followers in the magazines. The followers all seems to be OK, so I continued to attempt and use the FMJ rounds. I was then met by a slide that would hang open after a successful firing and that required me to use the slide release to chamber another round. The latter issue clearly different than the first issue where the bullet was at an odd angle and caused a mechanical hangup.


I then decided to take the gun apart and have another look the major components. Immediately I was frustrated by a gun that was difficult to dismantle. The slide seemed difficult to operate, but eventually I was able to align the marks and partially move the slide stop into place. I really struggled with getting it back into the frame completely for some reason. I got frustrated and gave up for the evening and reproached the challenge the following day. After wrestling with it for a while I was able to get the slide stop into place, but something didn’t look or feel right. The gun cycles, dry fires, and the slide will stay against the slide release as expected. The slide release doesn’t seem to articulate much at all, but it will release the slide with standard pressure applied to it.

While out on a business trip I called Kahr service for some guidance and the gal (Kate?) said, “you need a new extractor pin, it’s most likely bent”. She kindly asked for my address and indicated she should ship the parts immediately to remedy my problem. Now for the kicker, I just returned from my trip and wanted to breakdown he gun for another look. I can no longer breakdown the gun. I doubled checked the user guide for any insight, but to no avail. I am unable to remove the slide release and looking for your kind assistance in this matter.

I sent this exact text to Kahr Service and I'm waiting to hear back.

Thanks all!

[wyntrout]

You could have jammed the slide lock pin actuator on top of the slide lock spring, causing it to hold the slide lock up and engage the slide lock on every shot, plus other malfunctions.

Everyone should watch the take down video for their Kahr BEFORE attempting to take it apart and ESPECIALLY before trying to put it back together. The slide lock must be inserted correctly and there are several ways you can damage or lock up the pistol with improper insertion. The manual addresses this and the video emphasizes the correct procedure at 4:30. ANYONE can get a Kahr apart, but putting it back together, you have to know what you're doing and why!

Another problem with most new owners is holding the pistol FIRMLY for firing AND chambering a round. Limp-wristing while you chamber a round with the slide lock release can cause the malfunctions you are speaking of with regard to bullets diving and jamming against the feed ramp.

The Kahrs are tightly constructed with powerful recoil springs for a reason... a lot of energy is needed to strip a round off the magazine and shoot it across to the chamber. If the pistol is held too loosely, energy is transferred to moving the pistol... losing some of that needed by the slide, so the bullet nosedives and hits the right side of the feed ramp, usually jamming there.

The best way to overcome this limp-wrist racking is to NOT use the pinch method and use the weak hand over the slide... fingers over the slide aft of the ejection port, thumb along the left side of the slide pointing aft, and then with a FIRM gun hand push the pistol as you rack vigorously at the same time, releasing the slide as it reaches the rearmost position and is jerked cleanly form the weak hand. This approximates the rack by firing the pistol and with a firm grip should work every time.

I doubt that the extractor pin is bent, but you probably do have a bent slide lock spring by now.

This will repeat stuff you may have gotten already and some that I just said, but here's some info:

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by Kahr Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.
First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf
Impatient? Watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA)
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zXmSCnIOaUk#t=0s)
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp
There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums.
A very handy one is the Kahr Lube Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750
Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.
Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


Wynn:)
Aka wyntrout

[Ikeo74]

Another thought, you may have inserted the slide lock pin in front of the barrel lug. Read this post. http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16751&highlight=slide+stop+barrel+lug

[skiflydive]

Is the empty magazine out of the gun when you try to disassemble?

[Dyno Dan]

You could have jammed the slide lock pin actuator on top of the slide lock spring, causing it to hold the slide lock up and engage the slide lock on every shot, plus other malfunctions.

Everyone should watch the take down video for their Kahr BEFORE attempting to take it apart and ESPECIALLY before trying to put it back together. The slide lock must be inserted correctly and there are several ways you can damage or lock up the pistol with improper insertion. The manual addresses this and the video emphasizes the correct procedure at 4:30. ANYONE can get a Kahr apart, but putting it back together, you have to know what you're doing and why!

Another problem with most new owners is holding the pistol FIRMLY for firing AND chambering a round. Limp-wristing while you chamber a round with the slide lock release can cause the malfunctions you are speaking of with regard to bullets diving and jamming against the feed ramp.

The Kahrs are tightly constructed with powerful recoil springs for a reason... a lot of energy is needed to strip a round off the magazine and shoot it across to the chamber. If the pistol is held too loosely, energy is transferred to moving the pistol... losing some of that needed by the slide, so the bullet nosedives and hits the right side of the feed ramp, usually jamming there.

The best way to overcome this limp-wrist racking is to NOT use the pinch method and use the weak hand over the slide... fingers over the slide aft of the ejection port, thumb along the left side of the slide pointing aft, and then with a FIRM gun hand push the pistol as you rack vigorously at the same time, releasing the slide as it reaches the rearmost position and is jerked cleanly form the weak hand. This approximates the rack by firing the pistol and with a firm grip should work every time.

I doubt that the extractor pin is bent, but you probably do have a bent slide lock spring by now.

This will repeat stuff you may have gotten already and some that I just said, but here's some info:

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by Kahr Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.
First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf
Impatient? Watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA)
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zXmSCnIOaUk#t=0s)
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp
There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums.
A very handy one is the Kahr Lube Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750
Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.
Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


Wynn:)
Aka wyntrout


Just received an email back from Kahr. They mentioned it may be easier to call in than to explain over email a procedure to break down my CM40. I have successfully broke down the gun a few times (so I'm somewhat familiar), but given my description / quandary, I was hopeful they perhaps some sort of trick.....wishful thinking. I called, waited on hold for some time, and then looked at my email again.

In the signature of the email was a link to those videos you referred to. These are priceless and give a very good verbal explanation / visual aid to assist with the break down and assembly process. I could NOT find these anywhere on their site.....am I missing it somewhere?

Here's the link from the email:

http://www.kahr.com/OR-1G.html

This video was very helpful, and now I was bound and determined to get this gun apart!. After wrestling with it for a little bit, I was able to get the slide stop to walk towards me. As soon as I was able to free it bit more and gain a better view..........wyntrout is spot-on, the slide stop spring was actually bent in towards the center of the gun at about a 45 degree angle.

This is my fault....period. I read the manual included in my box 2x before breaking down the gun. I didn't find these handy videos obviously until now, but if I did I believe my reassembly process would have led to a different outcome, ie. success / proper placement of the slide stop spring.

In any case, I need to order a new spring at this point. I massaged it back into position and fired 10 rounds this afternoon. I had one occurrence where the slide hung open against the stop.

Thanks to all for your comments and guidance. I feel like a knucklehead, especially when I consider myself "type-A" as it regards to mechanical assemblies and attention to details.

[jocko]

:amflag:check ur thumb position. u should be ableto tweek that little spring backinto perfect working order. Then shootit left handed a few magazines and if it locks open u can assume it is still out of adjustment. Many times with the 40 cal kahr the ol thumb tend to hit that slide stop lever. very easy to check out.

if u look at that slide stop lever , that little nub that goes on theinside of the slide, u will see a little groove on that nub, . that is where that little sprnghy tip should reast. U should almost hear it snap into place when u reinstall that slide stop lever.. a tad of grease on that spring or slide stop won't harm a thing..

[wyntrout]

On the page for each pistol at their site is the picture of the pistol and the take down video link is below the picture.

Except, it seems for the CM40 page... and maybe others!

http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-CM40.asp

That link you have:

http://www.kahr.com/Videos.asp? or

http://www.kahr.com/OR-1G.html

Shows all of the videos. And the CM is like the PM one.

There's a lot of information on the kahr.com site, but sometimes it's hard to find it quickly! Improvements and changes don't always help!

Wynn:)

[Dyno Dan]

Different question. How about the slide, is it supposed to rock on the frame? I notice a fair bit of slop when you grasp the slide firmly and rock it laterally back and forth while holding the grip / frame. I'm doing this of course without a round in the chamber or with a magazine locked into place.

[jocko]

normal,

[geen]

I made the mistake the last time I broke mine down of putting the recoil spring on backwards with the open end away from the business end of the gun against the part of the guide rod that retains the spring and it opened up and went around the end of the guide rod. The gun fired one round and then nothing. The spring forced the guide rod out of the front of the gun even when it was lined up for the slide stop removal. I made sure the gun did not have a round in the chamber, got the slide stop out and the slide pulled back then put pressure on the barrel at the breach and forced it down and then was able to force the slide off the front of the gun. A newspring is now on order from Wolff.

[Rob_0t]

I had powder residue start fouling the slide stop action after 50 rds of ppu .40 cal... it still worked as long as you thumbed it ... but of you locked slide and then tried to sling it.. no go.. spring could not override the fouled pivot area :/ ... and stop would stick up in the slide notch.

Also after that i modded my slide stop to extract without tools. By doing some careful massaging of one side of the spring detent notch... i rounded and ramped the side needed to ease its release. Still a positive snap upon insertion. But tool free take downs are the way i like it....

Be wise and careful. You could as easily ruin the stop as just not do it. Lol.

[Dyno Dan]

Received a new slide stop spring from Kahr the other day. I removed the old one, installed the new one, and the re-assembled the gun to the best of my ability......with a bit more confidence compared to prior ocassisons :)

OK, the gun ran perfectly through (2) 5 round mags. The slide never hung open......BUT.....after the last round the slide now doesn't stay open. Did I install something wrong yet again? It happened on both clips!

[wyntrout]

Maybe there's a problem with your slide stop, too. Sometimes a new one works fine. Talk to Kahr and they might send you one of those for free. They are good about sending replacement parts.

See if the #6 Torx screw is tight but don't torque it too much and strip the plastic threads. In a pinch you can use a jeweler's screwdriver that will turn the screw without tearing up the TORX socket.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7773&d=1361815810

Wynn:)

[jocko]

can u physically rack the slide on an empty magazine and it lock open?? Did u look on the kahrt tech section under cw45 fixes and scroll on down and look at wyns photo of what the proper spring should look like. U might have it not set right . If the spring is pulling the slide down with to much pressure to over come the upward pressure of the magazine follower on the last round then it will not lock open.. If the gun is new, it could also be that the recoil spring has not taken its set yet . U might try shootin a half mag full of +P ammo to test that theory out.sometimes this fmj over the counter stuff is not enough ump to getthings right at first.

My thoughts are the spring is not adjust correctly yet..:Amflag2:

[Ikeo74]

Received a new slide stop spring from Kahr the other day. I removed the old one, installed the new one, and the re-assembled the gun to the best of my ability......with a bit more confidence compared to prior ocassisons :)

OK, the gun ran perfectly through (2) 5 round mags. The slide never hung open......BUT.....after the last round the slide now doesn't stay open. Did I install something wrong yet again? It happened on both clips!
Dan, I think you need to have another Kahr owner meet with you and show you in person how to take apart and re-assemble your gun. I am convienced that you are not understanding the correct process. I don't know what it is you are doing but it has to be incorrect. Somewhere, you are missing an important step and I don't think watching a video is going to correct your problem. Evidently you are missing an important step.

[Dyno Dan]

I did look that picture over. It will not lock open with a hand rack / empty mag.

Thanks guys, I appreciate your willingness to assist!!

Here's where I'm at:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/02/zadama5y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/02/yjy3aqe9.jpg

[Dyno Dan]

Just noticed if I push up on the bottom of the mag during a hand rack (empty mag) it will lock open.

[Ikeo74]

I did look that picture over. It will not lock open with a hand rack / empty mag.

Thanks guys, I appreciate your willingness to assist!!

Here's where I'm at:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/02/zadama5y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/02/yjy3aqe9.jpg
Is there a reason why you removed the screw on the right side of the top picture from the gun?

[Dyno Dan]

To replace the slide stop spring. This was the only way to replace my bent slide stop spring that I could see.

[jocko]

ur spring looks OK in this past photo. back off that screw about a 1/4 turn to see if it relaxes that spring any. that spring has to be able to move some what. Ur issue has tobe in that spring area, What ur doing whn u push up nthe bottomof the magazine is adding additional pressure tothe follower itself to push that leverup ward.That to me tellsme tha thte spring is applying to much downward pressure. U can take sie fine needle noxe pliers and tweek that spring tip upward a tad and retest.There should be no slop in the slide lock leer and when that little spring starts to engage to push downard either, U vcan tweek that spring tip without taking the screw out also.

[Dyno Dan]

I've done it now. Screw is stripped in the frame, I feel like such an idiot. I fell I'm rather mechanically inclined but without torque specs I guess I'm rather blind.

Wow....now what to do. Cold beer I guess.

[jocko]

epoxy on the threads and then screw it in and let it dry. Just snug that screw up, u can't tighten that screw as it threads into polymer as u well have found out

[jocko]

I've done it now. Screw is stripped in the frame, I feel like such an idiot. I fell I'm rather mechanically inclined but without torque specs I guess I'm rather blind.

Wow....now what to do. Cold beer I guess.

thing as torque specs on that little screw. snug is good and that is all u can do.:Amflag2:

[scosgt]

My CM 40 also gets occasional PSL on FMJ range ammo. I think it is the shape of the bullet. So far no problem with "carry" rounds.

[Dyno Dan]

Sorry for the delay, but here's an update. I chose to send the gun to Kahr with a long, detailed explanation of my experience thus far. It was just returned after about 3-4 weeks and the note was rather vague. I don't have it in front of me, but the gist of it was "inspected and adjusted the slide stop...." and there was no mention of the slide stop spring screw / stripped threads (which I took full responsibility for). I'll get the exact language from the work order later tonight.


In any case I immediately loaded 3 magazines and went shooting. On one of the 5 round magazines, right at what would have been the 3rd shot, the slide locked open. I simply used the slide stop to close the action and then finished the last 3 rounds. I didn't have any issues with the next 2 magazines, so that was a relief. I chose to reload another magazine and had another occurrence where the slide stuck open. I closed it and finished off the magazine and then proceeded to call it a day and clean the gun. After cleaning I went and tried to load my magazines, and that's when I had a hard time loading the first round and noticed the follower was broken (see picture).
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/01/5ygudaze.jpg

[JimC]

:popcorn:

And yet another Kahr mag. with a broken follower.

Let's see where this one goes.

FWIW, Kahr will gladly replace the follower. If you send your pistol in for inspection or repair, they will keep it 3-4 weeks and send it back w/virtually no explanation as to why followers break or what they did to remedy the problem.

My PM9 just came back after 4 weeks with the following:

Problem Reported:
BREAKING FOLLOWERS 5 MAGS

Action Taken:
INSPECTED. REWORKED FEED RAMP. LUBED AND TEST FIRED OK.

Good luck. ;)

[gb6491]

JimC,
How is your PM9 working post repair?
Regards,
Greg

[JimC]

JimC,
How is your PM9 working post repair?
Regards,
Greg

Greg, I haven't had an opportunity to get out and run some rounds thru it. :(
Possibly this week if all goes well.

[Dyno Dan]

Customer service was quick to reply this morning and they're sending a couple of followers.

I'm glad I purchased an XDS while my CM40 was in for it's last service. It's been stone cold reliable and I'm absolutely in love with it. It just works, plain and simple and there's no need for modifications, tricks, or otherwise. I'm really trying not to give up on my CM40.

[JimC]

JimC,
How is your PM9 working post repair?
Regards,
Greg

See post #14 of Range Report (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=233690#post233690)

[gb6491]

Greg, I haven't had an opportunity to get out and run some rounds thru it. :(
Possibly this week if all goes well.


See post #14 of Range Report (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=233690#post233690)
"...The little pistol performed 100% and...no broken mag followers!!! :D"

That's good news and thank you for posting the follow up (very much appreciated):)
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

Customer service was quick to reply this morning and they're sending a couple of followers.

I'm glad I purchased an XDS while my CM40 was in for it's last service. It's been stone cold reliable and I'm absolutely in love with it. It just works, plain and simple and there's no need for modifications, tricks, or otherwise. I'm really trying not to give up on my CM40.
Good to hear your XD-S is working well. Other than not liking Hornady XTP, my first one ran fine; that is, until I sent it back for a cosmetic issue. SA returned it with a painted slide and it didn't feed correctly. To their credit (I'm in no way trying to bash SA), they replaced the pistol. The new one was a little hesitant when feeding, but taking some material off the rubber buffer (fit's inside the extractor spring) fixed that. A few personal tweaks later (night sights and reducing the LCI), I'm very pleased with my XD-S (might even get a stainless one down the line).

In regards to your CM40's broken followers, there's some thought that the barrel's feed ramp is the culprit. The fix (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=165459&postcount=4) that has worked for some folks is t take a very small amount of material off the end of the ramp.

Regards,
Greg