Working folder for pictures from Kahr manual

[wyntrout]

Newcomer Welcome... lost old link with malware onsite... deleted it after corrupted!

06-21-2013 First day of Summer!

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by K a h r Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.

First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can view it and/or download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

Please watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA)
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zXmSCnIOaUk#t=0s)
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp

There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums. To start, a very good one:

Proper Prepping of a new Kahr:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14748

A very handy one is the Kahr Lubrication Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750

Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.

Another great resource for information on Kahrs... Archives of Magazine and Internet Reviews for Kahr pistols by industry experts. They test these pistols and report on their views and the ammo they tested in it. This is a good way to find ammo that might fit your needs along with accuracy and feeding in the pistol... usually from a rest with velocity and energy, as well as penetration and expansion sometimes... very informational.

http://www.kahr.com/product-reviews.asp

Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

One very important bit of advice: Hold the Kahr pistol firmly when firing OR CHAMBERING a round. These compact pistols need all of the force they can get from the slide to get a round into the chamber successfully. If you don't hold the pistol firmly, part of the needed momentum is transferred to MOVING THE PISTOL and the top round will DIVE and jam into the right side of the feed ramp. The weak hand, over hand rack method gives the best grip and a firm rack will give you the best chance at chambering a round.

Use the weak hand fingers over the slide(clear of the ejection port), thumb along the slide and pointing to the rear. Use the gun hand to simultaneously firmly push the gun as you give a vigorous rack with the weak hand and cleanly release the slide as it reaches the rear limit and is "snatched" from the weak hand. This approximates a real rack from firing and beats the slide release method WHEN executed properly. Much more strength can be exerted when this is done closer to the body.

Here's a video on that. The first part is what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hjLbFOw8sow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hjLbFOw8sow)

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


For the .45 Kahrs, here's some more info:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14749


Wynn:)
Aka wyntrout

PS: I keep thinking of stuff to add and help new members... and am trying to cover most of the popular subjects. Yes, it's repetitious to many, but possibly not to all new members. This approach is easier than having to look up every tidbit for each new member or question that arises. :)


Pictures for posts:

Working on a new member help post and the new post will be linked to these pictures so that they can appear within the text.

It gets to be a PITA to upload stuff to photbucket, or whatever!

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

More pix

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/ANI_GIFs/BIGs/Smiley_Med_Slapping_Forehead.gif

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for future use!

[TheTman]

It would be much easier to make a website than to try and get photobucket to do what you want. Web pages give you much better control over the text and picture layout and are much more flexible than trying to work with photobucket.

[wyntrout]

I already pay for Photobucket, but don't want to upload everything there. This was expedient except for the 5 photo limit per post. I was about out of room at Flicker.
I want to put pictures after the text and not at the end of the text. If I delete this thread, everything that referenced it is "lost".

Wynn:)

Needed to stash this cartoon somewhere for posting.

[muggsy]

wyntrout, I've run the recoil spring on mt CM9 backwards since shortly after I got the gun with no problems. The closed end forward prevents the spring from popping through the hole in the slide for the recoil rod. I wish that Kahr would close both ends of the spring and improve upon the design.

[wyntrout]

It costs more and would be even more confusing to the people who don't understand why one end is closed. The closed end grips the rod to hold it in place and the other end is loose to allow the spring and rod to move. Dang! This isn't supposed to be a chat thread. I was just sticking photos here... some I took of the danged manual because I couldn't copy and paste from Kahr's manual.pdf directly. So, I took photos of the screen... and yeah, there are all kinds of ways to accomplish what I wanted, but that was pretty fast and I didn't want to post the whole manual on Photbucket or whatever.

Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

Here is the comparison from the Kahr Brochure page 11. This is a picture of the pdf. To see the easier to read brochure.pdf click here:

12KahrBrochure.indd - 12KahrBrochure.pdf (http://www.kahr.com/PDF/12KahrBrochure.pdf)

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9238&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1379967452

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Dang! Left the blue highlighting on the original save of this image from pdf. :rolleyes:

Differences between CW45 and P45:

[wyntrout]

From Wolff Gunsprings' Frequently Asked Questions, shortened to fit in one post:

http://www.gunsprings.com/faq

"Frequently Asked Questions

1. What is the difference between conventional and variable recoil springs?
2. Should I use a conventional or variable spring when both are available?
3. What weight recoil spring should I use with a particular load?
4. How often should I change my recoil spring?
5. How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer rounds?
6. My spring got shorter after I used it for a short time. Is it bad?
7. My lighter spring is longer than the heavier spring for the same gun. Is this a problem?
8. The spring I purchased is longer than the original spring so I don't think it will fit.



1. What is the difference between conventional and variable recoil springs?
The difference is both physical and operational. With a conventional spring, all the coils are spaced equally apart, except for the closed ends. In a variable recoil spring the space varies between coils with less space between coils at one end and more space between coils at the other end.

The way the two springs store energy is also different. For example if a conventional recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1 pound of energy. For every additional 1/2" this spring is compressed it would then store 1 additional pound of energy. When a variable recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1/4 pound of energy. The next half inch of compression might store 1/2 pound, the next half inch might store 3/4 pound and so on. In other words, a conventional spring stores energy on a straight line and a variable spring stores energy on a curve. If both springs are rated at 16 pounds, they will both store 16 pounds when compressed to the same working length, but the way they get to 16 pounds is different.

2. Should I use a conventional or variable spring when both are available?
The choice is often very subjective. Conventional recoil springs are particularly beneficial when shooting heavier loads where keeping the slide closed as long as possible is desired. Variable recoil springs reduce the battery load values with increasingly greater recoil load values. This results in easier unlocking, improved recoil energy storage, dampening, feeding, breaching and lockup. Variable recoil springs are particularly beneficial with compensated pistols and when using light target loads where less recoil energy is available. The "correct type" of recoil spring is best determined through experimentation and your own personal preference.


3. What weight recoil spring should I use with a particular load?
This is a very common but hard question to answer in exact terms and in most cases an exact answer is not possible. There are many factors which influence the correct weight recoil spring to use. These factors include the particular ammunition brand and load, individual pistol characteristics, individual shooting styles and your individual, subjective feeling of how the gun shoots and should feel.

The factory spring weight is designed to operate the pistol with what would be considered average loads, plus or minus a little. It is not uncommon for manufacturers to specify what they consider a factory ammunition load.
In general terms, the heaviest recoil spring that will allow the pistol to function reliably is the best choice - tempered by the above factors. As a rule of thumb, if your spent casings are first hitting the ground in the 3 to 6 foot range, then the recoil spring is approximately correct. If you are ejecting beyond the 6-8 foot range, then a heavier recoil spring is generally required. If your casings are ejecting less than 3 feet, a lighter recoil spring may be needed to assure reliable functioning.

Taking these factors into consideration, it then comes down to how the gun feels and performs when shooting - in your judgment. However, using too light a recoil spring can result in damage to the pistol and possible injury to you.

4. How often should I change my springs?
The performance of your gun is the best indicator of when a spring needs to be replaced. Factors such as increased ejection distance, improper ejection and/or breeching, lighter hammer indents on primers, misfires, poor cartridge feeding from magazines, frequent jams, stove pipes and other malfunctions are all possible indications of fatigued springs or improper springs.

Springs such as magazine springs, striker springs and recoil springs are subjected to higher stress levels and will require more frequent replacement than other lower stressed springs such as firing pin springs and hammer springs.

Wolff springs are made with the highest grade materials and workmanship. Most Wolff [recoil] springs will remain stable for many thousands of rounds. Some recoil springs in compact pistols, especially where dual springs are used or are replaced by a single spring may require changing after 500 - 1500 rounds. Springs that become rusty, bent or otherwise damaged should always be replaced. Again, changes you observe in your firearm's performance are the best indicators that a change is needed.

5. How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?
Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.

More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.

In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably.

6. My spring got shorter after I used it for a short time. Is it bad?
Most new springs will take a set when they are first compressed. That means they will shorten up. This is a normal event and you should not be immediately alarmed. The greater the stress on the spring, generally the more set that will occur. All Wolff springs take this set into consideration. The ratings of the springs you receive are the ratings after the set has occurred. After set has taken place, the spring should remain essentially stable for the life of the spring.

7. My lighter [recoil] spring is longer than the heavier spring for the same gun. Is this a problem?
Wolff offers many springs in different weights for the same use. Factors such as the size of the wire, the number of coils, the outside diameter of the spring as well as the free length determine the strength of a particular spring. Often, lighter springs are longer than heavier springs because lighter wires and/or a different number of coils are used. Free length is then adjusted to achieve the exact strength desired.

8. The spring I purchased is longer than the original spring so I don't think it will fit.
The free length of a spring is not the most important factor in determining whether it will fit. Many Wolff springs are longer than factory springs. This is normal and the spring will fit.

The more important factor in determining whether a spring will fit is the number of coils in the spring times the diameter of the wire. For example, take 2 springs - one is 7 inches long and the other is 4 inches long. If both springs contain the same number of coils and use the same size wire, both springs will compress to the same solid lengths. The strengths will however be quite different but both springs will fit in the same application"

Spring Orientation from Greg, gb6491:


http://i39.tinypic.com/15guw0m.jpg

Link: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=105359&postcount=6

[wyntrout]

ATK Gel Testing of Gold Dots.

Ballistic Wound Gelatin Workshop Federal/CCI/Speer.
See how duty ammo performs through barriers like auto glass, clothing etc.

Videos at Kiesler:

http://www.kiesler.com/videodetail.aspx?id=1534

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%202/IMG_1855_zpsfb38c622.jpg

gb6491, Greg's magazine spring orientation photo:
http://i39.tinypic.com/15guw0m.jpg

[wyntrout]

Polymer Kahrs with 1.75" bike tube grip covers and carry ammo:
.380 ACP: +P 90-gr Buffalo Bore Gold Dot, or the same GD bullet from Underwood, +P
9mm: +P 124-gr Speer Gold Dots Short Barrel
.40 S&W: 180-gr Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel
.45 ACP: 230-gr Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/KahrPolymerFamily.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/IMG_5342.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/IMG_5341.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/IMG_5338.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/KahrPM45DLCwithTruDotNS.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/KahrPM9DLCwithTruDotNS.jpg



http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/KahrP9withported4-inchbblampNS.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/KahrP380withNS.jpg

Only 8 images can be in one post, including emoticons, etc. So, next page.

Wynn

[wyntrout]

Mag-na-ported P40 with black metal base and 3/32"x 3/4" Inner Diameter O-ring to prevent "pinches"! I preemptively fitted the P9 the same way. I put black metal bases where I could.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/KahrP40withMag-na-portingampNS.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/IMG_5361.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/IMG_5356.jpg

9's:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/9mms.jpg

.4's:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/4xcaliber.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/IMG_5348.jpg

Next post with pix of the sights.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

PM45 with factory Tru Dot NS:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/PM45DLCwithTruDotNS.jpg

Mag-na-ported P40 with Trijicon rear night sights and Big Dot front sight... couldn't stand the Low "V":

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/P40withXSBigDotFSandTrijiconRS.jpg

P9 with Factory rear Novak NS(Trijicon) and new front Trijicon NS:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/P9DLCwithNovakrearNSandTrijiconFS.jpg

PM9 with factory Tru Dot NS:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/PM9DLCwithTruDotNS.jpg

P380 with factory Trijicon NS(kind of mangled by Kahr ?trainee?):

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Kahr%20Polymer%20Family%20Photos/P380withTrijiconNS.jpg

I wear the P380 around the house and for short trips to convenience stores, or to places where I need maximum concealment and easy off.

The rest, I just wear what I feel like... PM45N at night, usually. The one that I carry the least now is the PM9. I just carry it when the others are needing cleaning... sometimes. It's in a ready defensive position around the house.

I prefer the larger P-sized or the PM45 now.

Wynn:)

[Pointblank]

http://www.gunnuts.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/qualification-target-you-suck.jpg

[wyntrout]

From the manual Loading and Firing the Kahr Pistol and the 2016 Limited Warranty pages: