New/used PM45

[O'Dell]

Hey Guys,

I've only owned my Kahrs, CW9 & CW45, for eight months, and I have a question. Since both of mine were new, I've never worried about CS, and have never needed it. Today, I walked into my LGS, and they had a used, unfired PM45 in the case for $575. I decided last week I wanted one, so I jumped on it, but I won't pick it up until Monday, since I didn't have my checkbook with me. My question is, how is Kahr's CS and warranty on a used gun, if I have a problem?

[Bawanna]

Hey Guys,

I've only owned my Kahrs, CW9 & CW45, for eight months, and I have a question. Since both of mine were new, I've never worried about CS, and have never needed it. Today, I walked into my LGS, and they had a used, unfired PM45 in the case for $575. I decided last week I wanted one, so I jumped on it, but I won't pick it up until Monday, since I didn't have my checkbook with me. My question is, how is Kahr's CS and warranty on a used gun, if I have a problem?

For me they have been excellent. Some here say they only take care of the original purchaser but they did me extremely right on a couple occasions with used guns that weren't even mine.
I think they are more than fair and even if it's a non warranty repair I think they do you right.

[jocko]

Bawanna is right, now expecially with the PM45, as that gun has not been out 5 years, which is their warranty period today.

they can tell by the serial numbers the date of birth, and I would guess if the gun was 8 years+ old, it might cost you to repair, maybe not either. Normally if your gun is still under warranty fo 5 years, then again normally kahr will even pay at least one way for shipping, sometimes if new both ways even. You just gotta get ahold of the right persona t kahr to get some things done right to.

That price seems very reasonable, hopefuly yo got the extra magazine that comes with the PM45 and the box and manual etc. Don't worry about warranty stuff until you need it , then come to this forum and these guys will guide you the right direction.

While your wairting on this fine gun, go to the kahr tech section and hit on the PROPER PREPPING OF YOUR NEW KAHR.

Nice gun, enjoy it..

[wyntrout]

"Used" and unfired... what the heck??:confused:

Does it have a "U" on the trigger guard? If so, that would be a refurbished gun.
Kahr FAQ's: Kahr Arms / Q & A (http://www.kahr.com/OR-4.html#q26)

• Q. What does the "U" on the trigger guard of my pistol mean?

A. If there is a "U" engraved on the trigger guard of your pistol, it is a factory refurbished and test fired model (often sold as a "test fired" gun). The gun is considered to be used, will come with one magazine, and is sold with a one year warranty.

Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

Thanks for the responses. I wasn't really looking for trouble, but the PM45 seems more problematic than other Kahrs. However, since I'm switching from 9mm to 45, the PM45 appears to be by far the best CC gun. It's even smaller than my CW9.

The price includes 2 mags. I didn't ask about the box or manual. I've got two of each already. The price seemed reasonable to me as they normally sell locally for $700 and up new, and I really believe this one is unfired. I guess I'll know in the next week or so.

[jocko]

some of the kahr 45's had some issues but basically they are a super gun and you should not worry about issues that might not ever happen. Cross that bridge when it happens.

Nice gun, just shoot it like you stole it..

[jocko]

Thanks for the responses. I wasn't really looking for trouble, but the PM45 seems more problematic than other Kahrs. However, since I'm switching from 9mm to 45, the PM45 appears to be by far the best CC gun. It's even smaller than my CW9.

The price includes 2 mags. I didn't ask about the box or manual. I've got two of each already. The price seemed reasonable to me as they normally sell locally for $700 and up new, and I really believe this one is unfired. I guess I'll know in the next week or so.

for me I would rather have a gun that ahs been fired and is proven reliable than one that has not and I hav eto be the beta person for it. Looks doesnt really tell one much about the condition of a gun, unless it has be drug behind a car for a year or so. My PM9 has 25,800 rounds through it and it looks as good as the day it came to me and it is still tight as heh to. If u seen it and didn't know it, you would swear it is new. Not a worn part on this gun. I have said this many times. " kahrs can be shot until the cows come home". They are just that good and well made.:19:

You got a excellent buy on the gun and I agree, "screw" the box..

[kahrseye]

I just bought my PM45, supposed to be here Wed. and I paid $750 shipping included for a 2 tone stainless with n/s.

[jocko]

I just bought my PM45, supposed to be here Wed. and I paid $750 shipping included for a 2 tone stainless with n/s.

ur gonna love that puppy. Refer to the kahr tec section and review the PROPER PREPPING OF YOUR NEW KAHR. Nice gun, take your time with it..

[O'Dell]

I picked up the PM45 yesterday. I decided with the PM, I really didn't need my CW45, so I traded it on the new gun. The CW45 was always a bit awkward for me - too big for pocket or IWB carry, so it usually ended up in a belt holster. This was fine for winter, but not for summer. Except for the slight increase in thickness the PM45 is smaller than my CW9.

I cleaned and lubed the pistol [fairly clean but dry as a bone] yesterday, and will try to get to the range this week. Did I mention that it has nite sights. Bottom line, I left the store w/o the CW45, but with the PM45, and my checking account was $280 lighter out the door.

[wyntrout]

Congratulations! Did you check for the notch, the gap, the bevel of the stripper and do the night sights work?? If all that looks good, then it's range time and picture time! Good luck, you'll love that gun. Oh, consider the bike tube grip cover for the cheese grater. It makes for a great grip and doesn't alter the clean appearance of the the pistol. It makes for as perfect a feeling gun as my K9, but is lighter and more powerful! Be prepared for that S.E. grin!
Wynn:D

[Bawanna]

I picked up the PM45 yesterday. I decided with the PM, I really didn't need my CW45, so I traded it on the new gun. The CW45 was always a bit awkward for me - too big for pocket or IWB carry, so it usually ended up in a belt holster. This was fine for winter, but not for summer. Except for the slight increase in thickness the PM45 is smaller than my CW9.

I cleaned and lubed the pistol [fairly clean but dry as a bone] yesterday, and will try to get to the range this week. Did I mention that it has nite sights. Bottom line, I left the store w/o the CW45, but with the PM45, and my checking account was $280 lighter out the door.

I'll have to have Mr. Jocko crunch the numbers but sounds like your happy for all the right reasons which makes all of us happy so I guess it's gonna be another good day. Do give us a range report, there's lots of inquiring minds around here interested in the PM45's, myself at or near the top of the list. Wishing all good things for you and your new toy. Play hard!

[O'Dell]

Congratulations! Did you check for the notch, the gap, the bevel of the stripper and do the night sights work?? If all that looks good, then it's range time and picture time! Good luck, you'll love that gun. Oh, consider the bike tube grip cover for the cheese grater. It makes for a great grip and doesn't alter the clean appearance of the the pistol. It makes for as perfect a feeling gun as my K9, but is lighter and more powerful! Be prepared for that S.E. grin!
Wynn:D

Don't know about the "notch" or "gap", but yes, the stripper is beveled, and the N/S do work. I haven't called Kahr, but I'm guessing from the S/N that the gun was built in late '09 or early '10. For the time being I'll just wear the gloves I bought for the CW45 - couldn't shoot more than 30 rounds w/o them.

If it rains on Thursday as it's suppose to, I'll hit the range. Taurus shipped my PT745 back today, finally, so I may have two pistols to check out. No pictures though - I don't own a camera.

[O'Dell]

I misspoke. I pulled off the slide and the stripper is NOT beveled. Nether is my CW9, but it has been perfect. I still don't know what the notch or the gap is.

[Bawanna]

I misspoke. I pulled off the slide and the stripper is NOT beveled. Nether is my CW9, but it has been perfect. I still don't know what the notch or the gap is.

If you click on search and write in Notch, then select New PM45 range test by Wyn you'll find a very brief thread about the length of an encyclopedia 18 pages or better. Early on it shows a picture of the bevel on the stripper and the gap where it meets the cartridge in the case, then towards the end the NOtch comes into play. This is where the recoil spring and guide hammer the frame up near the muzzle end. Apparently some got out without a notch machined into the frame. It's a good read, make coffee, maybe a sandwich, cold beverages for later, maybe take a speed reading class.
Just don't be worried about yours until you really have something to be concerned about. Might be zero issues at all. We'll cross our fingers and route for that.

[O'Dell]

I got to the range today with my new/used PM45, and the results were good, but mixed. I shot about 100 rounds of Federal and Winchester bulk ball and maybe 30 rounds of Gold Dots. I was time limited, because I had a PT745 just back from repair, and I had to also check it out. At about the 40 round mark, I had a failure to feed on the first round in the mag. The round never left the mag. This happened 2 more times, always the first round, but if I hand racked it instead of using the slide release it loaded. I stopped using the release after that and had no more problems. This is obviously contrary to Kahr's instructions. I don't know if it was the same mag every time, but I did notice one was much harder to insert and release so maybe there's something about that magazine.

[wyntrout]

It sounds like you may have one or both of these problems. Check this out... it's a brief post on the Notch and the gap problems.
Wynn:)

http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/1757-new-pm45-way.html#post17700

[O'Dell]

It sounds like you may have one or both of these problems. Check this out... it's a brief post on the Notch and the gap problems.
Wynn:)

http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/1757-new-pm45-way.html#post17700

Ok, I locked the slide back and inserted both mags. It's almost impossible as the rim of the top round hits the front of the stripper. With the slide forward, there's no problem. What do I do about it?

[Bawanna]

Ok, I locked the slide back and inserted both mags. It's almost impossible as the rim of the top round hits the front of the stripper. With the slide forward, there's no problem. What do I do about it?

Your saying the cartridge rim is hitting the bottom of the stripper, not in front of it as it should be? You said earlier that the stripper was not beveled. If I'm reading you right, that's what needs to happen either by your own hand or probably preferrably at Kahr. Since it's a PM45 and even though used, its still relatively new I'm pretty sure they will cure it for you. Ian seems to be the go to guy to get things done there. I'd wait for confirmation from Wyn on my theory since he recently went thru all this. He'll have good contact info.

[wyntrout]

If your stripper isn't beveled, that would be the first fix. I guess you have the notch for the recoil spring assembly to move about.
Did your situation look like the one in my pictures, with the lower leading edge of the "stripper" resting on the rim of the cartridge? Beveling that part with a stone, file, or dremel and polishing it, allows the stripper to push against the cartridge rim/rear and make the magazine move forward enough so that the stripper is behind the top cartridge and can push it forward for chambering. The cartridge is NOT pushed forward in the magazine... the magazine is pushed forward. See my pictures on that link for Kahrseye.
Wynn
http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/1757-new-pm45-way.html#post17700

[O'Dell]

If your stripper isn't beveled, that would be the first fix. I guess you have the notch for the recoil spring assembly to move about.
Did your situation look like the one in my pictures, with the lower leading edge of the "stripper" resting on the rim of the cartridge? Beveling that part with a stone, file, or dremel and polishing it, allows the stripper to push against the cartridge rim/rear and make the magazine move forward enough so that the stripper is behind the top cartridge and can push it forward for chambering. The cartridge is NOT pushed forward in the magazine... the magazine is pushed forward. See my pictures on that link for Kahrseye.
Wynn
http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/1757-new-pm45-way.html#post17700

No, the stripper or pickup rail is not beveled, and the rail is resting on top of the cartridge rim. That makes it difficult or impossible the seat the mag with the slide locked back. I checked my other Kahrs, and there's about a 1/8 inch gap between the rail and the round. I can manually rack the slide and that will usually chamber the first round, because the slide goes more rearward. After the first round, there's no problem. Is Kahr aware of this situation?

I saw your picture of the "notch" but don't really understand the issue. As far as I know, there's no problem with the recoil assembly.

[wyntrout]

If you don't have the "notch" -- that half-moon cut out, you'll have problems with the recoil springs assembly banging the heck out of that area until there is one of sorts. It causes feed and ejection problems until there IS a notch battered there. There's supposed to be a notch and there's a thin wall of metal there in the way of the recoil assembly on the PM9 and the PM45 and maybe more guns. The barrel doesn't go straight back, but tilts for the slide to clear it, so there's some up and down as well as front and back motion that needs that extra bit of room. Some guys have notched their own guns instead of sending it back to Kahr... the same with the missing bevel on the stripper. Mine had the notch but needed the bevel.
Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

If you don't have the "notch" -- that half-moon cut out, you'll have problems with the recoil springs assembly banging the heck out of that area until there is one of sorts. There's supposed to be a notch and there's a thin wall of metal there in the way of the recoil assembly on the PM9 and the PM45 and maybe more. The barrel doesn't go straight back, but tilts for the slide to clear it, so there's some up and down as well as front and back motion that needs that extra bit of room. Some guys have notched their own guns instead of sending it back to Kahr... the same with the missing bevel on the stripper. Mine had the notch but needed the bevel.
Wynn:)

OK, thanks. I couldn't access the photos on that link, but I've seen them before. I'll check for the notch later. I don't feel like striping the gun again tonight. The reason I asked if Kahr was knowledgeable about the problem[s] is because my gun was pre-owned, not used, but pre-owned. They would be more likely to fix it if they know the problems exist.

[wyntrout]

Here's the link to the post about the "fix" and the problem. There was a few lengthy threads about this. I posted pix of my PM9 to show what it should look like, before I got MY PM45.
http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1368-notch.html
Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

I called Kahr this AM. The tech I talked to didn't seem to know anything about the "gap" problem. Although I explained it three times, I not really sure he understood. I didn't mention the "notch" because I hadn't checked my gun to see if it was there or not. It's not! He arranged to have my PM45 picked up at my GS Monday. I will write a note to explain the problem of the rim of the top cartridge hitting the bottom of the pick-up rail when the slide is locked back and the subsequental failure to strip the round from the magazine. Do you think I should mention the notch problem since my gun has no damage at that point yet?

[Bawanna]

I called Kahr this AM. The tech I talked to didn't seem to know anything about the "gap" problem. Although I explained it three times, I not really sure he understood. I didn't mention the "notch" because I hadn't checked my gun to see if it was there or not. It's not! He arranged to have my PM45 picked up at my GS Monday. I will write a note to explain the problem of the rim of the top cartridge hitting the bottom of the pick-up rail when the slide is locked back and the subsequental failure to strip the round from the magazine. Do you think I should mention the notch problem since my gun has no damage at that point yet?

Can't hurt to mention it. The tech's may not refer to the stripper bevel as a "gap". I think that title was imposed here for lack of a better term. You could mention that the front of the stripper is not beveled or that its not lineing up behind the cartridge properly. The techs will know, they have seen it many times. There should be signs of beating on the front of your slide if the notch is not present, they will understand that although again maybe notch isn't the correct terminology.

[wyntrout]

By all means mention the un-beveled "stripper" AND the missing "notch" between the recoil spring assembly and the barrel opening in the front of the slide. Both of these are being done by the Customer Service guys at Kahr. You should address calls and emails to Ian.Burr@kahr.com 'cause he has been taking care of most of us and knows what the heck is going on. If you talk to someone who sounds clueless, that's not good and you may be looking at more than one trip back to the factory. It seems like sometimes they just work on the stuff you complain about and if you weren't specific enough, it doesn't get fixed... as long as the gun fires.... I enclosed a copy of my email and the pictures in the email with the gun.
I believe this is the first "notch" picture that was in focus. There was not a notch and the recoil spring assembly beats on the thin metal that is supposed to have been machined away, until it makes its own notch. There were problems with the gun's cycling while this battering was going on and I'm sure the chunks of metal broken out of the way caused some problems. You definitely need one. So far, the guns I've seen are my PM9 and my PM45 had the notches and I know at least one CW45 didn't have it. The P380 does NOT need the notch.
http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1144-pm45-issue.html
Good luck and do all that you can to make sure they fix those problems.
Wynn

[wyntrout]

Can't hurt to mention it. The tech's may not refer to the stripper bevel as a "gap". I think that title was imposed here for lack of a better term. You could mention that the front of the stripper is not beveled or that its not lineing up behind the cartridge properly. The techs will know, they have seen it many times. There should be signs of beating on the front of your slide if the notch is not present, they will understand that although again maybe notch isn't the correct terminology.
Maybe someone should ask Ian and the Srvice Dept what the names of these things are and any code they use so we can address the problems in language they understand.:rolleyes:
Wynn:D