Failure To **** ?

[VAguy]

Hello,

Recently my wife and I bought "his" and "hers" CW45s. Today was our first day shooting them and I have a real concern.

To start, I wanted to make this an early range report, but at this point I'm just looking for help.

This morning before shooting either pistol for the first time I dissasembled each one cleaning them both including spraying out the striker channels with the recommend cleaner. I then lubricated per the diagram I found on this site. There were no problems disassembling and reassembling either pistol. "Hers" was found to have a bit of small polymer flecks which I wiped out with a lint free cloth.

Both his and hers were fired with 100 rounds of American Eagle 230 FMJ.

"His" was flawless, no FTFs, no FTEs, no stovepipes, etc. Went boom every time.

"Hers" on at least 12 occasions failed to **** as the slide cycled forward chambering a new round. Simply put a new round was in the chamber, but the trigger had no pressure/resistance, you could pull it fully and it felt just like it was not cocked. This happened at different times thoughout the 100 rounds. Never with the first round in a magazine, but subsequent rounds. Each time you had to manually cycle the slide ejecting the live round and chambering another, this did **** the pistol on all but one occasion.

[EDIT: "hers" never had a FTF or FTE either, just the FTCs]

We traded pistols for a while and it happened to me also when shooting her pistol. Never happened to his pistol no matter which of us was shooting it.

I know we have not finished the 200 round break in period, but this seems just plain wrong.

Needless to say I am very disappointed.

Any comments or suggestions? I'm betting this pistol needs to go back to Kahr.

[jocko]

I would say it is going top have top go back. To me sounds like a bad trigger bar and that is something that kahr need sto do.

Call Kahr monday and ask for IAN, tell him what is going on, he will say send it back, you ask them to send a pre paid pick up on the gun as it is new. they will do that. Document all issues when you send it back so the techs at kahr know exactly what is going on...Being you tried it and it did the same thing, tells me it is the gun and not the female shooter either. Just sounds like an out of spec trigger bar.. They will get you a quick turn around on the gun also..

That is a pretty big caliber for a female shooter, especially is she is not a shooter to begin with, just my 2 cent son this. 200 rounds is not going to make that issue go away , so get it back to kahr.

[VAguy]

That is a pretty big caliber for a female shooter, especially if she is not a shooter to begin with, just my 2 cents on this.

She did well, not intimidated at all but then I didn't make a big deal out of it.


200 rounds is not going to make that issue go away , so get it back to kahr.

That's what I was thinking too.

Thanks for the response.

[jfrey]

As Jocko mentioned, the trigger bar may be the problem. I just sent my CW9 back to Ian for possibly the same problem. Had some light primer strikes and the trigger pull was "long" compared to other Kahr's I had shot. Jocko is pretty savy on this stuff. They will make it right if you give them a chance.

[VAguy]

Brief update.

Called Kahr and explained the problem I was having and they promptly sent FedEx to pick up the malfunctioning CW45. That was last Tuesday, the pistol arrive back today (Monday). Glad I was home, because I had no idea it was on its way back already.

The repair ticket said they "Test fired, Reworked trigger bar, replaced magazine catch and barrel, lubed and test fired ok".

They made no indication as to whether they noticed the same problem upon test firing, or how many rounds they put through it again test firing before deeming it "ok", but I hope it was a lot.

I will be doing my own test firing as soon as I can.

Will right up a full range report on BOTH CW45s sometime after that.

[rkirk]

I certainly hope this fixes your problem CW45. I love my CW9. Good shooting on your next trip to the range.

-- Richard

[In-Yo-Grill]

I hope you will continue to be patient. If you give them the chance they will make you happy in the end.

How did you like shooting the CW45? Was the checkering a little rough on your hands?

[VAguy]

How did you like shooting the CW45? Was the checkering a little rough on your hands?

This is my first Kahr, and the first time I have shot a 45 since I was about 10 years old. I liked it! Recoil was very manageable. My shot groups stunk but I hope to improve on that with time.

As far as the checkering on the grips, I liked that too. I have small soft girly hands from lack of manual labor, but the grips gave me no problems, the gun feels firm and in place in my hand, very important I think.

[VAguy]

Well it's still doing it!

Got the CW45 back from Kahr a few weeks ago, but only just recently had a chance to get to the range. 100 rounds, 3 failures to reset trigger.

Back to Kahr. I sure hope they adequately test it this time before sending it back (I nicely asked them to).

Not happy, I really think it should have been fixed right the first time.

But, I will say Kahr has been prompt each time I have raised a complaint and picked up the pistol for their inspection.

I'm still waiting to post a full range report on the two CW45s we bought, but I really need to see the outcome of this before being able to give a fair assessment on my Kahr experience.

[deadhead1971]

Kahr does have good customer service in that they are responsive. But I have read quite a few stories like yours where they don't get it fixed the first time.

I think they do not shoot enough rounds to duplicate the problem and see what's going on. I think they "fix" it based on the customer's explanation of the problem and then fire a few shots.

[jmstallard]

I'd check the trigger bar myself before sending it back. Remove the slide and find the trigger bar that runs along the right side of the frame. With a fingernail, or some device that won't scratch anything, push that trigger bar down. This will disconnect it from the cocking cam. Now release pressure on the trigger bar and see what happens. It should spring back into position. If it's not, then something is generating enough friction on the bar to overcome the spring force. Try hand-actuating the bar over and over while watching TV and see if that helps.

[VAguy]

I'd check the trigger bar myself before sending it back. Remove the slide and find the trigger bar that runs along the right side of the frame. With a fingernail, or some device that won't scratch anything, push that trigger bar down. This will disconnect it from the cocking cam. Now release pressure on the trigger bar and see what happens. It should spring back into position. If it's not, then something is generating enough friction on the bar to overcome the spring force. Try hand-actuating the bar over and over while watching TV and see if that helps.

Might do that when I get it back since I like to know how things work.

BUT, since this is a brand new pistol, I am not a gunsmith and would not know how to fix the problem if I recognized it, back it went to Kahr. The responsibility is on them to stand behind their product and instill some confidence in me and my wife on their product.

I'm not totally upset with Kahr, I mean I have had to send a pistol back to a manufacturer more than once to have it repaired....that being a Colt Govt Model .380, I love that pistol now and would rely on it.

Thanks for the response.

[getsome]

I really hope that someone from Kahr reads this site because IMO it is totally unexceptable to have so many customers having to send a product marketed as the "Rolls Royce" of compact pistols back to the factory 2 or 3 times or more to try and get a pistol that works....Yes Kahr has good customer service but it just isn't right that customers have to request this service so often and for so many repeat times....I know there are people that are thinking about buying a Kahr product that read this forum and frankly if I were in the market for a compact pistol I would go somewhere else after reading about so many issues with Kahr products on a Kahr friendly forum that the company either can't or won't address and correct....I mean really folks, this just isn't right....Poor Bawanna has his cramped fingers crossed hoping that he hasn't spent his hard earned money on a lemon.....It is getting to the point that we need not ask about round count but mileage on the gun from shipping it back..... That is just not how to conduct business if a company expects to keep loyal customers.....I'm sorry but I just feel this needs to be said and if it makes anyone mad at me then so be it but sometimes the truth hurts!!!

[Bawanna]

I really hope that someone from Kahr reads this site because IMO it is totally unexceptable to have so many customers having to send a product marketed as the "Rolls Royce" of compact pistols back to the factory 2 or 3 times or more to try and get a pistol that works....Yes Kahr has good customer service but it just isn't right that customers have to request this service so often and for so many repeat times....I know there are people that are thinking about buying a Kahr product that read this forum and frankly if I were in the market for a compact pistol I would go somewhere else after reading about so many issues with Kahr products on a Kahr friendly forum that the company either can't or won't address and correct....I mean really folks, this just isn't right....Poor Bawanna has his cramped fingers crossed hoping that he hasn't spent his hard earned money on a lemon.....It is getting to the point that we need not ask about round count but mileage on the gun from shipping it back..... That is just not how to conduct business if a company expects to keep loyal customers.....I'm sorry but I just feel this needs to be said and if it makes anyone mad at me then so be it but sometimes the truth hurts!!!


Amen brother, it needed to be said and you said it very well. Truth be told I've been like a yo yo for months pondering my new Kahr, (ain't gonna be a lemon, please dont let it be a lemon). I seriously was considering a G36 until I'm confident the issues were over, I've had a G36 before, I know it would run, one of the few that I would nearly take out of the box and carry with confidence. Kahr has the technology, they take care of their customers but the best customer care ain't worth diddly if you have to use a zip lock box and open a fed ex account (Wynn) to send it back. Shouldn't happen not even once. Should be a rare bird occurence. Kahr really should have someone reading this forum, heck we should all be part of their advertising division. We sure send alot of folks towards the Kahr gun counter that's for sure.
My fingers are still crossed, maybe forever now, pretty sure I broke 3 of em last January, still not 100% but my grip is back and they seem to work, should have went to the saw bones I guess but they scare me. Still aching ot hold MY new PM45. Please, please, please don't let it be a lemon. I'll probably just go postal. (remember I can say that my ma was a mailman, oops mail carrier.
You done good son, hope Kahrs' listening. I gotta go stir my mushroom tea and drink the kool aid they sent me. My new girlfriend Miss March 2010 is having friends over for lunch, is this gonna be great or what!

[jocko]

Well it's still doing it!

Got the CW45 back from Kahr a few weeks ago, but only just recently had a chance to get to the range. 100 rounds, 3 failures to reset trigger.

Back to Kahr. I sure hope they adequately test it this time before sending it back (I nicely asked them to).

Not happy, I really think it should have been fixed right the first time.

But, I will say Kahr has been prompt each time I have raised a complaint and picked up the pistol for their inspection.

I'm still waiting to post a full range report on the two CW45s we bought, but I really need to see the outcome of this before being able to give a fair assessment on my Kahr experience.

sometimes I wonder just who is fixing and testing these guns. No excuse for this either, none that I would accept. Once back is normally once to many times. I don't wantto hammer the 45's either but it seems the more issues are in the kahr 45's. No reason for that either IMO. I would think reworking a trigger bar is a waisted cause. No more than they cost to make, kahr should have just replaced it. I wonder what the hell they even rework on the trigger bar. Again to me makes zero sense, course I am not a kahr tech either...

[deadhead1971]

As I sorta stated, Kahr needs to duplicate the problem in their lab if that means shooting a box of 50 rds. If I had a problem like some of you and had to send it back, I would gladly send Kahr a box or 2 of free ammo to shoot the dang gun to cause the problem.

Who knows what "test fired" means but it's probably 10 rds or less.

It seems they are fixing and replacing things that don't need to be. I am still trying to figure out why the barrel was replaced in this case?

:rolleyes:

[VAguy]

I am still trying to figure out why the barrel was replaced in this case?:rolleyes:

I was wondering that too, that's what it said on the repair order.

[jocko]

I was wondering that too, that's what it said on the repair order.

automotive mechanics. they never fix anything, they just replace stuff until the issue goes away.

I think kahr sometimes does this to expedite time. Might seem costly to them from our stand point but they might figure, so what if we spend an hour working on it and decide it is the slide or maybe still not solve the issue. I think I would rather kahr replace my slide with a new one an barrel also than maybe doing some filing, grinding etc to it to make it work right.

Probably these slides can be out of spec and get through inspection or maybe no inspection even and get boxed up for the buyer to be the beta tester. No doubt these $2000 custom guns get some TLC work done on them by filing, etc, but I seriously doubt if these kahrs, glocks, sigs, smiths get that kind of TLC.

I have had entire kel tecs replaced for me in the past. That tells me they haven't a clue as to what was causing the issues, so lets just start over again.

[VAguy]

Finally got my wife back to the range to try out the function of her pistol after getting it back from Kahr for the second time. Well "her" CW45 is headed back to Kahr tomorrow for the 3rd time for the same problem!

As soon as we get it back it will be traded in for something else, I don't care if they say they ran 1000 rounds through it and gold plated the internals, can't keep a pistol you don't trust 100%.

[kyletx1911]

Finally got my wife back to the range to try out the function of her pistol after getting it back from Kahr for the second time. Well "her" CW45 is headed back to Kahr tomorrow for the 3rd time for the same problem!

As soon as we get it back it will be traded in for something else, I don't care if they say they ran 1000 rounds through it and gold plated the internals, can't keep a pistol you don't trust 100%.no doubt

[VAguy]

Just to wrap up this thread, I wanted to say that Kahr is replacing the pistol even though they were not able to recreate the failure I was describing. Since it has been back to them 3 times, they are replacing.

They definitely have exhibited very good customer service each time I have contacted them and I am looking forward to many years as owners (plural) of Kahr handguns.

I wish other industries would exhibit the same level of customer service that the firearms industry generally does. In my dealing with top level firearms and accessories companies I have always come away a happy customer.

-VAGuy

[jocko]

that is good news, but don't you question how in Gods green acre could your gun go back 3 times and they send it back and say it is fixed when it is not??? Sometimes i think though their ability to "fix" something is limited. Not knocking kahr either, just questioning 3 times back and never right yet. AMAZING..

[VAguy]

that is good news, but don't you question how in Gods green acre could your gun go back 3 times and they send it back and say it is fixed when it is not??? Sometimes i think though their ability to "fix" something is limited. Not knocking kahr either, just questioning 3 times back and never right yet. AMAZING..

Well technically they fixed it twice, each time replacing parts. This last time I sent it back who knows.....probably nothing was done to it, just put on a shelf and retired (I would hope).

I'm certainly looking forward to having a new pistol for my wife, I will run it through it's paces myself (at least 200 rds), then back to her training with it.

[yqtszhj]

that is good news, but don't you question how in Gods green acre could your gun go back 3 times and they send it back and say it is fixed when it is not??? Sometimes i think though their ability to "fix" something is limited. Not knocking kahr either, just questioning 3 times back and never right yet. AMAZING..

I think it's the 3rd time is charm. I sent a laptop computer back for repair and on the 3rd time they replaced it. I know our company has a repair service and the 3rd time a part comes back for repair they scrap it.

Like was said before, I don't think they test well or can really fix much of anything IMO.:confused:

[OldLincoln]

I hope they have a real gunsmith work on it until they determine where in the action it was failing and why then adjust that error in the manufacturing process to prevent it in the future.

I simply HATE the don't know, can't figure it out answers. That's like Toyota saying "we don't know why your car crashed and killed your family, but we'll replace it for you."

[dmdalton]

Just to wrap up this thread, I wanted to say that Kahr is replacing the pistol even though they were not able to recreate the failure I was describing. Since it has been back to them 3 times, they are replacing.

They definitely have exhibited very good customer service each time I have contacted them and I am looking forward to many years as owners (plural) of Kahr handguns.

I wish other industries would exhibit the same level of customer service that the firearms industry generally does. In my dealing with top level firearms and accessories companies I have always come away a happy customer.

-VAGuy

Glad to hear they are taking care of you as my CW45 is doing the exact same thing. Very distressing that they can't figure out what it is.

Dave

[pm9az]

I hope they have a real gunsmith work on it until they determine where in the action it was failing and why then adjust that error in the manufacturing process to prevent it in the future.

I simply HATE the don't know, can't figure it out answers. That's like Toyota saying "we don't know why your car crashed and killed your family, but we'll replace it for you."

Um, IIRC, the Toyota problem turned out to be another Audi-esque pedal misapplication error.