Guys pushing the envelope but interesting

[rhd04]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=135825546591540. Any opinions?

[ESAFO]

well he deffinetly knows his rights & now adays alot of cc members do follow up on there rights, however there is no harm in the law doing there job to protect & serve as we want them to do.

[ltxi]

interesting

[jocko]

oh he had his rights and he set that cop u to, so didhe prove a point??? Sure hope he doesn't live in that town, he is a marked man.

I would suspect that here in Indiana and if u walk down the streets of Indianapolis where cops are on damn near every corne with an exposed handgun and a legal carry permit thatyour gonna get challended by every cop,and 8 out or 10 will be a$$holes towards you, once u start throwing all those legal law cases at them. Often we don't realize that they deal with violenece every day and any guy with a gun will not set well with them. Is it ur right, probably yes. IS IT SMART??? well u answer that part.
I know I have a lifetime CCW poermit in Indiana and I would never challenge the system with an exposed gun....

I'm just guessin here but I wuld surmise that in that city or town or what ever that openc arry even though legal is just ot sumpin that cops sees alot if ever, . I also realize that some leo's feel we should not be ableto have a gun on us either, only they should have that right, which is dead ass wrong.. Just sayin

[muggsy]

As far as I'm concerned the guy was being a Fokking a-hole for no reason. If he ever needs the assistance of a police officer, I hope it's this police officer who responds to his call. Every gun owner worth his salt should support his local police instead of trying to make an ass of them. He only succeeded in making an ass of himself.

[RRP]

I agree with Muggsy. This guy was indeed being an a-hole. Youtube is loaded with videos of guys who intentionally bait cops by openly carrying and refusing to cooperate while capturing the encounter on camera.

In my opinion, this type of behavior gives conceal carrying law abiding citizens a bad name. Generally speaking, the cops I know support gun rights. But if they have to deal with encounters like this every day, their support for our right to bear arms may begin to wane.

[tv_racin_fan]

These type threads always come down to hatin on guys who open carry.

WHY? The man is walking down the street not doing anything illegal. The nice officer should be able to see that from his car and not even bother the guy.

I am sure glad the nice officers in my area aint like that when I am out and about. They just look at me and assess that I aint up to nothing bad and go on about their business. Course if the nice officer asks me for my permit and ID I will probably show it to him. IF he comes over to me and tries to take my firearm off my side he may have an issue depending on my mood at the time.

[itsthelaw]

LEOs have the responsibility to know the laws they are enforcing. I cannot imagine being a LEO and getting sucked into this one with all the instances and videos. This video has purpose beyond poking fun at the officer. Would I do it? Nope. Do I think it serves the good of the people of that state? Yep.

[swilcher7]

As a former LEO in SWPA I'd like to respond. Yes, open carry is legal here. In the past few years I have seen it more now than ever, and some of the people I see doing it should NOT be carrying a gun. I've seen some POORLY secured guns hanging from belts, shoulders ect. And also, once your get in a vehicle and close the door, that gun is now considered CONCEALED. Most people I know and have dealt with have concealed carry permits. But here's a thought too. Is he/she carrying open because they were denied a permit? Most permit denials can also be the reason you are denied a firearm on the background check as well. So you have no way of knowing if this person is legally able to carry unless you question them. I'm not saying that all people openly carrying were denied a permit. I think it is worth your while to go and get a permit just to save yourself any headaches. Having dealt with persons either with stolen firearms or carrying without a "license" here, I don't have a problem with questioning someone. And I agree some of these clowns do make it harder on legal owners with their behavior.

[getsome]

I don't have a problem with open carry if you live in a rural area or a small town where the Police know you and understand you're an ok guy and not up to no good but I hate to see these A-Holes baiting the Police and being a smart ass on video to a Police Officer just trying to do his or her job....

This to me is no different than some punk riding a crotch rocket motorcycle doing a wheelie down the road and arguing with the Police Officer who stops him that he was not speeding and was maintaining his lane and the LAW does not specifically say that both wheels have to be on the ground at the same time, its a stupid argument and it makes the public think all motorcycle riders are bad....I hate to see people open carry just to film themselves and get on Youtube to show his stupid buddies what a big man he was to stand up to the cops...I think it's a very bad example and harms folks that want to CCW legally and mind their own business....This type of behavior harms the gun culture way more than it helps and is not good for our cause....

[jocko]

I don't think anyone here myself included feel that if u have the right to open carry that you should be deprived of it because of what we think. I guess my point has been stated to many times. Why seek attention to you when it is not needed. every LEO is gonna look at u with a suspicious eye, whether he does anything or not is besides the point. It certainy does make the majority of people nevrvous when walking around with a open carry. No doubt in some states it is far more prevelant so maybe the nevervous factor is not so bad either. But I can tell u in Indiana it makes people nervous BIG TIME, it also will draw cops attention to you faster than if u had ur d!ck hanging out exposed. So yes it is ur right and in some states ur gonna have to able to repeat that time and time again to
I ride every day 24 miles for coffee on my Harley and I pass and wave to many state cops who know me and many city cops who do't know me. the last thing I wantt o do is piss one off over my legal rights and then have the entire BLUE looking for me every day. I never thought of some of the things swicher stated, but now we are gettinghis view of it and that should mean sumpin.

I also feel most LEO'S know the law, so if they approach u and ur civil and can produce the proper documentation that he will just go on his way and that will be it. there not all a$$holes. I have road Harleys with 3 of them for awhile and when we are out o an open road, the limit is never talked about either. They understand.. common sense normally prevails in almost all cases to..

I am not trying to step on anyone's right either, one must do what one must do...

[muggsy]

These type threads always come down to hatin on guys who open carry.

WHY? The man is walking down the street not doing anything illegal. The nice officer should be able to see that from his car and not even bother the guy.

I am sure glad the nice officers in my area aint like that when I am out and about. They just look at me and assess that I aint up to nothing bad and go on about their business. Course if the nice officer asks me for my permit and ID I will probably show it to him. IF he comes over to me and tries to take my firearm off my side he may have an issue depending on my mood at the time.

And if that a-hole rounds the corner and opens up on a bunch of kids leaving school you'd be the first at ask why the cop didn't do anything. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I have no use for street lawyers. The officer was being polite and making a reasonable inquiry. The open carry advocate was being an a-hole. Depending upon your mood at the time you could be lying in a pool of your own blood. You don't screw with the police. It's not a good policy

[O'Dell]

And if that a-hole rounds the corner and opens up on a bunch of kids leaving school you'd be the first at ask why the cop didn't do anything. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I have no use for street lawyers. The officer was being polite and making a reasonable inquiry. The open carry advocate was being an a-hole. Depending upon your mood at the time you could be lying in a pool of your own blood. You don't screw with the police. It's not a good policy

Good, muggsy. I'm always polite to LEO's and IRS agents. Both have way too much power over me.

BTW, the courts have ruled that the police have no duty to protect, only to investigate after the fact.

[jocko]

And if that a-hole rounds the corner and opens up on a bunch of kids leaving school you'd be the first at ask why the cop didn't do anything. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I have no use for street lawyers. The officer was being polite and making a reasonable inquiry. The open carry advocate was being an a-hole. Depending upon your mood at the time you could be lying in a pool of your own blood. You don't screw with the police. It's not a good policy

ur getting to polite anymore. u need to be more eleguont and smooth.:Amflag2:

Just trying to make u a better person.some members here do need alot of consouling.Just sayin:Amflag2:

[muggsy]

Good, muggsy. I'm always polite to LEO's and IRS agents. Both have way too much power over me.

BTW, the courts have ruled that the police have no duty to protect, only to investigate after the fact.

The police have no more power than we the people grant them. I'm polite and cooperative with LEOs, because I respect what they do for the community. They don't have a duty to protect according to the Supreme Court, but many of them have given their lives doing just that. I've never met a police officer who didn't treat me with the utmost respect.

[muggsy]

ur getting to polite anymore. u need to be more eleguont and smooth.:Amflag2:

Just trying to make u a better person.some members here do need alot of consouling.Just sayin:Amflag2:

Damn, Jocko, I thought I was being eloquent and smooth. I could have been blunt and told him what I really thought. Maybe I should attend the same charm school that you attended. S'pose it couldn't hurt. :)

[tv_racin_fan]

As a former LEO in SWPA I'd like to respond. Yes, open carry is legal here. In the past few years I have seen it more now than ever, and some of the people I see doing it should NOT be carrying a gun. I've seen some POORLY secured guns hanging from belts, shoulders ect. And also, once your get in a vehicle and close the door, that gun is now considered CONCEALED. Most people I know and have dealt with have concealed carry permits. But here's a thought too. Is he/she carrying open because they were denied a permit? Most permit denials can also be the reason you are denied a firearm on the background check as well. So you have no way of knowing if this person is legally able to carry unless you question them. I'm not saying that all people openly carrying were denied a permit. I think it is worth your while to go and get a permit just to save yourself any headaches. Having dealt with persons either with stolen firearms or carrying without a "license" here, I don't have a problem with questioning someone. And I agree some of these clowns do make it harder on legal owners with their behavior.

Can't carry in my state without the permit unless hunting or own your own land or in your home or auto or place of business with permission.

Why should the cop stop and ask me about my handgun and not the guy with a bulge on his side? You think the guy with the handgun under his shirt is somehow better than me? You have no way of knowing that he is any more legal than I am and yet somehow because he has his under his shirt...

[tv_racin_fan]

And if that a-hole rounds the corner and opens up on a bunch of kids leaving school you'd be the first at ask why the cop didn't do anything. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I have no use for street lawyers. The officer was being polite and making a reasonable inquiry. The open carry advocate was being an a-hole. Depending upon your mood at the time you could be lying in a pool of your own blood. You don't screw with the police. It's not a good policy

The guy with a handgun on his side right out in the open for everyone to see is no more likely to open up on them kids than the guy with his handgun under his shirt.

[tv_racin_fan]

Jocko I expect the nice officer to take a look at me and determine if he thinks I am up to no good or just going on about my business. IF he believes I am up to no good simply because I have my handgun on then he ought to feel the same way about everyone he sees with a handgun under their shirt. It aint so hard to see that bulge as some want to believe.

[Bawanna]

Around here a buldge under the shirt in the right location would bring on the same inquiries as an open gun on the hip. Just for the same reasons.

Do you have a carry permit, quick check for warrants etc and off you go.

We get testers from time to time, most recently that I recall was a couple guys with black rifles slung on their backs, one guy I think had a shotgun slung on his back and belt guns. Walking down the highway, main drag through town. Of course 50 man with a gun calls. Contacted on multiple days by numerous different officers.

Even had video on youtube of our guys and they were actually supportive of us because we didn't hassle them apparently enough.

We even hatched a plan for when more calls came in we'd saturate the area with off duty cops, civilians, and uniforms all open carrying and walk in the same area so they would feel insignificant.

One has to remember it isn't the cops who necessarily get overwrought on open guns, it's the public that burns up the 911 lines in fear of bad evil things, either real or imagined and generally who can blame them.

I love that it's legal to open carry but I never ever do. It does buy me some grace if I ever have a wardrobe faux paus and my gun shows. Still legal.

[O'Dell]

The police have no more power than we the people grant them. I'm polite and cooperative with LEOs, because I respect what they do for the community. They don't have a duty to protect according to the Supreme Court, but many of them have given their lives doing just that. I've never met a police officer who didn't treat me with the utmost respect.

I know quite a few Lawrenceville, GA and Gwinnett County officers and nearly all are good guys, but there are some real jerks out there too. I can name several who go on a big power trip when they put on the uniform and they will 'run you in' for having a hair out of place. It hasn't happen to me, yet, but it has happened to some people I know who rightfully and lawfully stood up to them. It not that I couldn't get out of it, it's the time and money it would take to do so. That's what I meant by too much power over me, and as far as the people having the power to correct it, the people had to chance to save the country in November, and how did that turn out? My son is a Captain on a force and was a Chief before he was injured. He will readily admit that there are some officers that should never be in uniform in nearly every department.

[jocko]

Jocko I expect the nice officer to take a look at me and determine if he thinks I am up to no good or just going on about my business. IF he believes I am up to no good simply because I have my handgun on then he ought to feel the same way about everyone he sees with a handgun under their shirt. It aint so hard to see that bulge as some want to believe.

from me, one can carry anyways he wants. I can assure of one thing, a cop is gonna see exposed carry much much faster than any pocket carry. I don't worry about the cop part as I am legal. but like the colonel stated when people see a civilian walking arund with an exposed gun, they get nervous and then foolish [phone calls are made and god only knows wha tthey tell that dispattcher and the next thing u have cops coming out of the wood work and lets face it, not all cops are good guys either. If one doesnt mind showing his permit etc and explaining why and how he is carrying then if it works for u, go with it. I would much rather be asked by a female cop about my BULDGE. i WOULD SHOW HER GLADLY. Just sayin

and we don't know either if an offier sees a buldge under ones shirt that he indeed does not inquire. We are assuming he does not and that could be wrong. Damn I must be lucky for I drink coffee alot with 3 state troopers all great guys, all Harley riders and in my front pocket is always my PMJ9 and yes if u look closley it prints at times, not most of the time but I would be lying to say it does not. Fokk a cell phone prints, so WTf is the big deal. I am legal and my contention is and has been THEY AREN'T LOOKING . But no doubt if I open carried they would soon get used to me being legal, but I know they would not really approve of it.

I have never open carried in 48 years but pocket carried all that time, and never been challenged, nor have I ever had to draw it in anger either. I never have IWB OR OWB carried so with soe of the new rigs made today I am sure conceability is much better than 10 years ago and some guns have gotten smaller to. Just sayin

I have no doubt cops profile people to. I don't have hair down to my ass or wear a hoodie in 95 degree weather or pants that hang down below the crack of my ass. again all 3 are legal to do, but your gonna get stared at more than I am..

[RRP]

I would much rather be asked by a female cop about my BULDGE. i WOULD SHOW HER GLADLY. Just sayin

She may be more interested in a Glock21, than in your PMJ. :D

[swilcher7]

[QUOTE=tv_racin_fan;227731]Can't carry in my state without the permit unless hunting or own your own land or in your home or auto or place of business with permission.

Why should the cop stop and ask me about my handgun and not the guy with a bulge on his side? You think the guy with the handgun under his shirt is somehow better than me? You have no way of knowing that he is any more legal than I am and yet somehow because he has his under his shirt...[/QUOTE

Well here in PA again open carry is permitted. In my area you don't see it alot. Like others here have said, most people will panic seeing someone openly carrying a handgun. And if you cause enough of a panic, you can be issued a citation for say Disorderly Conduct. Again, most people I know have concealed carry permits, and I myself wonder why anyone is carrying openly when PA is a SHALL ISSUE state. And a bulge could be because of a cell phone, portable insulin pump (have seen these) etc. Doesn't necessarily mean gun. And here's what I used to tell people when I was on the job so to speak, if your not doing anything wrong, you don't have to worry about me. Also, just my OPINION, but I believe you make yourself a target carrying openly. No reason to advertise.

[swilcher7]

Sorry if last post is confusing, I'm new here. Gotta learn the ropes!!

[tv_racin_fan]

Also, just my OPINION, but I believe you make yourself a target carrying openly. No reason to advertise.

This opinions is shared by many.

Funny thing that. There are of course a couple of cases where someone open carrying was attacked presumably because of the firearm. Yet there is evidence that open carry does deter or prevent a crime. Not near as many cases one can prove of such tho because in general bad guys do not call in and state they didn't committ a crime because they saw someone with a firearm.

[ORSalesRep]

I don't have a problem with open carry if you live in a rural area or a small town where the Police know you and understand you're an ok guy and not up to no good but I hate to see these A-Holes baiting the Police and being a smart ass on video to a Police Officer just trying to do his or her job....

This to me is no different than some punk riding a crotch rocket motorcycle doing a wheelie down the road and arguing with the Police Officer who stops him that he was not speeding and was maintaining his lane and the LAW does not specifically say that both wheels have to be on the ground at the same time, its a stupid argument and it makes the public think all motorcycle riders are bad....I hate to see people open carry just to film themselves and get on Youtube to show his stupid buddies what a big man he was to stand up to the cops...I think it's a very bad example and harms folks that want to CCW legally and mind their own business....This type of behavior harms the gun culture way more than it helps and is not good for our cause....

I agree with this completely! I have always wanted to try open carry just to see how it is received by the places that i carry in and if/or how any LEOs would deal with me. I guess it is just curiousity on my part, but i haven't tried it and don't think I will. IMO, if i am truly carrying for defensive purposes, I don't want to give up the tactical element of surprise if I ever need to use my firearm. Also, it is inevitable that the police would receive "man with a gun" calls and they would be obligated to investigate. I don't want to be a drain on their time as they are busy and have better things to do.

[JustinN]

The officer stated people were calling in, he wasn't just driving by and stopped (in fact most probably wouldn't). We would get that here where I live and worked....someone sees someone with a gun and calls the police. You have to at least go talk to them. AND until he establishes if the person can legally possess the firearm he CAN detain the person AND the guy can be ID'd, or else he can be taken to jail to be identified.....

The officer was attempting to be polite and work with the guy. In that situation, I would verify he is legal to possess the fun, get his name so that if there is an issue you at least have his info. If the guy refused to ID himself, I would take him to jail (not arrest for a crime) and get him legally ID'd. If he is found legal to possess/carry the gun, then I'd send him on his way.

Look at it this way. The camera guy doesn't know what all is going on....it could be his bad luck someone with his description just robbed a gas station at gun point 2 blocks away. You never know what situation is occurring when an officer is approaching you. There are some bad officers out there, that's true, but most are really good people just doing their job. The harder someone makes that job, the harder it is going to be for that person in the long run....

[muggsy]

I know quite a few Lawrenceville, GA and Gwinnett County officers and nearly all are good guys, but there are some real jerks out there too. I can name several who go on a big power trip when they put on the uniform and they will 'run you in' for having a hair out of place. It hasn't happen to me, yet, but it has happened to some people I know who rightfully and lawfully stood up to them. It not that I couldn't get out of it, it's the time and money it would take to do so. That's what I meant by too much power over me, and as far as the people having the power to correct it, the people had to chance to save the country in November, and how did that turn out? My son is a Captain on a force and was a Chief before he was injured. He will readily admit that there are some officers that should never be in uniform in nearly every department.

I agree with every thing you said. There are a few bad apples in every profession. The officer in the video didn't appear to be that bad apple. He seemed like a man trying to do his job and the citizen was acting like an a-hole. He may have had a right to openly carry, but he also had a right to remain silent and he should have kept his mouth shut. A little cooperation goes a long way with a cop. Had he run into the bad apple he could have had his skull fractured. I'm betting that with his attitude that someday he will have his skull fractured, or worse. What I'm trying to say is don't provoke a fight. You may get more than you can handle. Been there, done that and I did get a tee shirt to prove it.

[swilcher7]

+1 on the above. Attitude works both ways. If you as a cop approach someone with an attitude, you should expect it in return, and vise versa. Been there, done that. I'm no spring chicken. but not too old either....Looking back, the world is a HELL of alot different now then back then. We couldn't get away with ANYTHING!! If someone who knew you saw you doing something, your parents knew before you got home and were waiting for you at the door. And it didn't help me that the Police Supt. was my next door neighbor. Now kids are cussing out their parents, have no fear or respect for their elders. And this "I didn't see anything" crap kills me. Oh I called you but I didn't see anything!! Unreal..To all good LEO's and law abiding citizens alike, STAY SAFE!!

[JustinN]

+1 on the above. Attitude works both ways. If you as a cop approach someone with an attitude, you should expect it in return, and vise versa. Been there, done that. I'm no spring chicken. but not too old either....Looking back, the world is a HELL of alot different now then back then. We couldn't get away with ANYTHING!! If someone who knew you saw you doing something, your parents knew before you got home and were waiting for you at the door. And it didn't help me that the Police Supt. was my next door neighbor. Now kids are cussing out their parents, have no fear or respect for their elders. And this "I didn't see anything" crap kills me. Oh I called you but I didn't see anything!! Unreal..To all good LEO's and law abiding citizens alike, STAY SAFE!!

I did a stint at the local State University as an officer. It was funny because you could easily tell kids that came from Kansas City and easily tell the kids from St. Louis. St. Louis kids "knew their rights", "call their father", "don't have to talk to us", blah blah blah.....and it usually ended badly for them, because we don't roll like STL PD apparently. Kids from KC on the other hand were always "yes sir, no sir, thank you sir". KCPD doesn't mess around and it shows. They know to be respectful, even if they don't disagree, and things normally went their way much much better...plus we were more likely to cut them some slack when they immediately began the contact with "I'm sorry you had to come here sir" vs "You have no right to be on my property!"....

[ORSalesRep]

Around here a buldge under the shirt in the right location would bring on the same inquiries as an open gun on the hip. Just for the same reasons.

Do you have a carry permit, quick check for warrants etc and off you go.

We get testers from time to time, most recently that I recall was a couple guys with black rifles slung on their backs, one guy I think had a shotgun slung on his back and belt guns. Walking down the highway, main drag through town. Of course 50 man with a gun calls. Contacted on multiple days by numerous different officers.

Even had video on youtube of our guys and they were actually supportive of us because we didn't hassle them apparently enough.

We even hatched a plan for when more calls came in we'd saturate the area with off duty cops, civilians, and uniforms all open carrying and walk in the same area so they would feel insignificant.

One has to remember it isn't the cops who necessarily get overwrought on open guns, it's the public that burns up the 911 lines in fear of bad evil things, either real or imagined and generally who can blame them.

I love that it's legal to open carry but I never ever do. It does buy me some grace if I ever have a wardrobe faux paus and my gun shows. Still legal.

+1!!! Completely agree

[dkmatthews]

Around here a buldge under the shirt in the right location would bring on the same inquiries as an open gun on the hip. Just for the same reasons.

Do you have a carry permit, quick check for warrants etc and off you go.

We get testers from time to time, most recently that I recall was a couple guys with black rifles slung on their backs, one guy I think had a shotgun slung on his back and belt guns. Walking down the highway, main drag through town. Of course 50 man with a gun calls. Contacted on multiple days by numerous different officers.

Even had video on youtube of our guys and they were actually supportive of us because we didn't hassle them apparently enough.

We even hatched a plan for when more calls came in we'd saturate the area with off duty cops, civilians, and uniforms all open carrying and walk in the same area so they would feel insignificant.

One has to remember it isn't the cops who necessarily get overwrought on open guns, it's the public that burns up the 911 lines in fear of bad evil things, either real or imagined and generally who can blame them.

I love that it's legal to open carry but I never ever do. It does buy me some grace if I ever have a wardrobe faux paus and my gun shows. Still legal.

Bawanna, I just wish the police would start telling all the Nervous Nellies that open carry is legal when they receive these MWAG reports! :banghead:

Fat-fingered from my Samsung Galaxy TAB2...

[Bawanna]

Bawanna, I just wish the police would start telling all the Nervous Nellies that open carry is legal when they receive these MWAG reports! :banghead:

Fat-fingered from my Samsung Galaxy TAB2...

The sad thing is the nervous nellies usually only get to speak to dispatch, usually violet wannabe somebodies. Officer rarely gets to enlighten the unenlightned.

Where the sam heck have you been too. You haven't been around in a long spell. Hope all is well in your world.

[dkmatthews]

The sad thing is the nervous nellies usually only get to speak to dispatch, usually violet wannabe somebodies. Officer rarely gets to enlighten the unenlightned.

Where the sam heck have you been too. You haven't been around in a long spell. Hope all is well in your world.

My little boys have been keeping me busy when I'm not working!

Fat-fingered from my Samsung Galaxy TAB2...

[Bawanna]

Out stump jumping the Ram Charger I suspect?