Kahr Double Stack

[muggsy]

Kahr has filled the niche for single stack concealed carry pistols. How long do you think it will be until we see a Kahr with a double stack magazine with a ten round capacity and would you be interested in buying one?

[TD2K]

that's my one wish from Kahr. If I could get a high capacity mag with that long DAO trigger pull I know and love from Kahr, I could rule the world.

[itsthelaw]

+1...what she said

[JohnR]

*Spock eyebrow lift* Intriguing...

They'll probably wait till the attempted ban on normal capacity mags blows over.

[Cubby]

Nah, I got rid of all of my double-stacks except one. I got tired of carrying a brick!

[pappy42]

Possibly in a 9mm. Larger calibers would disprove the Kahr concept.

[Chuck54]

I would prefer a K45




:amflag:

[laserfish]

K45 or even better a T45 first, pleeeeease.

[jocko]

Kahr has filled the niche for single stack concealed carry pistols. How long do you think it will be until we see a Kahr with a double stack magazine with a ten round capacity and would you be interested in buying one?

I thik one is in the works. doesn't happen over night either. Would I be interested??wold all depend on the size. I pocket carry so I have no quarrels withmy PMJ9 but I see a void i te kahr line with no double stack, and lets face it kahr is running out of much more changes for the kahrs they have now, so to me it just makes sense.

My thoughts would be a 9mm first, then 40 and maybe a fokking 45. but I don't forsee any steel version double stacks. Allconjecture here to for I hv eno more clue than most here either, but we can dream tough, can't we:Amflag2:

[Longitude Zero]

I would be interested but would want to see it first. Frankly Kahr has such a great thing going now I don't see them stepping into the DS line anytime soon.

[getsome]

It's an interesting concept but I don't think they would even consider it until the current high cap magazine ban is settled and in concrete....I think a 10 round small 9mm would definitely be of interest and would sell IF and this is a BIG IF they will go to a high quality magazine vendor that wouldn't fall apart, bust followers or rip open at the seams...I love a Kahr pistol but their magazines suck and I really wish this would be addressed and changed in the future...It's like buying a high dollar Mercedes sports car and it having cheap tires from the factory, doesn't make sense to me and IMHO tarnishes the overall product...

[JohnR]

K45 or even better a T45 first, pleeeeease.

I'd take either of those (or both) before a double stack.

[jocko]

probably right on the 10 round capacity issue. they might be holding back, who knows. I still feel in my mind the magazines issues are not vendor magazines of poor quality ut some issues withy some kahrs that are just bashing the piss out of the magaznes. Hell they are all stanless mags, they use wolff springs, plasma welded like all magazines, and where the breaks in most magazines was, certainly IMO is not a defect as much as sumpin is causing them. Again magazines are not supposed to take a pounding either. Some kahrs are IMO just out of whack enough to be causing it. I do think we have seen most of the splittling of the magazines which seemed more common two years back is alsmot gone today. What shows up seems to be models of age to.

The follower thing IMO is an issue that needs to be corrected, hopefully down the road this will be done to. It does to me anyhow seem to be more in the 40 cal kahrs than any outer caliber. Not blaming the 40 cal as the issue other than it is happenig in that frame more3 than the 9's which are basically the same frame. I realize we all say that kahrs are tight, very close tolerances, that may be true but certainly not an excuse either.

[Longitude Zero]

I love a Kahr pistol but their magazines suck and I really wish this would be addressed and changed in the future...It's like buying a high dollar Mercedes sports car and it having cheap tires from the factory, doesn't make sense to me and IMHO tarnishes the overall product...

Current mags I agree. I have many that are over 5 years old with ZERO defects/troubles. And they have seen extensive use. Trying to make a Kahr DS with more than 10 rounds really defeats the purpose of Kahr weapons in the first plae. A Kahr with 11 or more rounds is really a silly pipe dream IMHO.

[jocko]

u might be right Zero but we gotta remember than many will carry IWB OR OWB so a double stack 10 round kahr would indeed make sense to those who might carry that way. Itwouldnot excite me that much as if I can't carry it in my pocket,I will startlooking eslewhere. I would agree anything over 10 rounds wouldbe going up aganst the bog boys out there, so leave them alone. I do thing it is very doable in a 10 round DS , but when one things about it, we have the 7 round P series and C series 9's that would jprobalby have to be 12 rounds at least or wewould be in a shorter P and C frame, so which direction wold kahr go if they intorduced one model. ??IMO it would make sense to make it in the C or P series as most will IWB OR OWB carr it, over like a 10 round P or CM series.

Los of theory's here as u can see and I absolutely have no clue of any of this to..:Amflag2:

[JohnR]

Remember, the king of Doublestackenland (Glock) gave in and made a single stack (in .45, wink wink), so anything's possible.

[getsome]

Love um or hate um, if Block ever decides to make a single stack small PM/CM sized pocket pistol everybody, Kahr included would be in trouble...

[muggsy]

I thik one is in the works. doesn't happen over night either. Would I be interested??wold all depend on the size. I pocket carry so I have no quarrels withmy PMJ9 but I see a void i te kahr line with no double stack, and lets face it kahr is running out of much more changes for the kahrs they have now, so to me it just makes sense.

My thoughts would be a 9mm first, then 40 and maybe a fokking 45. but I don't forsee any steel version double stacks. Allconjecture here to for I hv eno more clue than most here either, but we can dream tough, can't we:Amflag2:

I'm thinking of it as more for home defense than carry, although it could be carried IWB in 9MM quite easily.

[muggsy]

Love um or hate um, if Block ever decides to make a single stack small PM/CM sized pocket pistol everybody, Kahr included would be in trouble...

I don't care for Block's square trigger guard and grip. You could give me a Block, but I wouldn't buy one.

[muggsy]

that's my one wish from Kahr. If I could get a high capacity mag with that long DAO trigger pull I know and love from Kahr, I could rule the world.

Your my kind of woman TD2K. :)

[chrish]

Everybody knows I'm on the buy list if they do. I've said repeatedly that I would love to have a Kahr double stack 9mm w/ a 4" barrel. Basically a TP9 double stack, 13-15rds. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

I understand the whole argument about breaking from Kahr's niche...but they've bought companies that don't fit the niche at all (Magnum, AO). I know the stuff is produced in other factories, where they were before Kahr bought them, but the point is that it means that Kahr expanded to have a greater reach and offer something to non-Kahr customers. This would be the same, call it a Kahr or call it Sally, they could easily take the Kahr trigger to a double stack copy of existing Kahr products.

Will they? Who knows.

While I don't care for the Glock trigger either, I tend to agree...if Glock offers a single stack, Kahr takes a pretty big hit. Glock is already closer in the weight category than anybody else, going to single stack would put them in Kahr territory. IMO, the other players that have tried to compete in the single stack market are producing a sub-par, sub-Kahr quality firearm. I haven't run across one yet (trigger, ergos, weight, capacity) that I'd take over a Kahr.

[Armybrat]

Justin could make a "semi" double stack .45 like my new Ruger SR45 (10+1), and it would still retain the Kahr slimness. But I'll still be totin' my CW45.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/Guns106_zpsaee3d399.jpg

[phil413tx]

K45 or even better a T45 first, pleeeeease.

Oh...a T45 would be the best. I would be the first in line to buy one! I would have to own a k45 as well. I wish they would make it!

I agree that they should do a double stack in the PM or CM. the K series would be quite a beast to carry in double stack! However, does a double stack go against the kahr brand?

[jocko]

we are the ones saying kahr would be out of their niche. NOT KAHR. They have marketing people who study this stuff and if they feel there is a market for their product, then that is what is gonna guide them, not this niche thing..

[Longitude Zero]

They have marketing people who study this stuff and if they feel there is a market for their product, then that is what is gonna guide them, not this niche thing..

Exactely. If they have not done it by now I take that as a very intelligent sign that they have studied it and have decided against it. DS has been around long enough for them to have looked and said nope.

[yqtszhj]

Love um or hate um, if Block ever decides to make a single stack small PM/CM sized pocket pistol everybody, Kahr included would be in trouble...

They would have to make one that works really good though. Sig has tried the pocket pistols such as the P238 and the P290 and reviews say that they are not like the "regular" sigs, being that they do not function perfectly EVERY time.

I saw a good price on a Glock 36 today and started looking at the reviews and they were not as glowing as the original glock 9's and 40's. Now those were older reviews but Glockaholics expect perfection. They have had some growing pains. Just my opinion.

Oh, also thinner is better. Not interested in a kahr double stack. But if they made one guess who would be interested? Probably me.

I want a CW45s (the "s" would have a 3 inch barrel.) That would just tickle me something crazy.

[mr surveyor]

I wouldn't buy a double stack made by Kahr ... but it has nothing to do with Kahr. I don't own any double stacks, period. My "digitally challenged" (short fingers) hands and double stacks don't play nice together. I chose the Kahr pistols a few short years ago because of their quality, and what they are ... very concealable, well made handguns that I can handle with ease.

If I wanted (and could properly handle) a double stack, it would be Sig all the way.

[O'Dell]

I doubt that Kahr will build a DS pistol - it's not the niche that they have created for themselves. Personally, I don't care if they don't. If I feel the need for more rounds, I'll just pack one of my HK's. All my other pistols are SS. As far as the mags are concerned, maybe I've been lucky, because I've never had a mag issue with seven Kahrs over 6+ years.

[newCW45guy]

9mm or .380 just 9-10rds would fit me fine.

Seriously the .380 could use a little more grip without really changing it's pocket gun size and to my knowledge nobody makes a double stack .380.

[Bootlegger]

I have Kahr as a friend on my Facebook and everytime they post something I post something about what I think they should look into is a 22LR. Something like a CW22, start with a line they already have and work it out. So how about a "mule" DS22LR using a CW frame and try your hand at two new products!?!? :nerd:

[TD2K]

Your my kind of woman TD2K. :)

:D

I've been saying this for years. I so love my Kahr, and I'm dead accurate with it (on occasion even more so than I am with my Glock 34 competition model), but need more capacity for not only competitions, but for daily carry. After going thru Tom Given's (Rangemaster) Instructor school he hammered it into our little brains that bad guys travel in 2 or 3, very rarely 1 or 4. And 1 hit may not take them down, it may take multiple hits. And you better not miss if you only have 7 rounds! So I reconsidered my daily carry 6+1 Kahr MK9 and bought a GL 19. I miss my little Kahr, but I feel much better with more capacity. Yes, I know I could carry 2 or 3 extra mags on me, but I don't want to. I still have my Kahr and carry it when I dress up nice and maybe can't fully conceal the GL19, but I have switched things up over the last few months.

[JimC]

A DS Kahr on their larger frame pistols...not a bad idea if that's what one needs.

I wouldn't be interested, I've got more than enough DS pistols, but I'm sure it would sell.

[Bawanna]

Oh...a T45 would be the best. I would be the first in line to buy one! I would have to own a k45 as well. I wish they would make it!

I agree that they should do a double stack in the PM or CM. the K series would be quite a beast to carry in double stack! However, does a double stack go against the kahr brand?

Sorry you'll have to settle for # 2. I'm already in the T45/ K45 line. Been here a long time, kind of a tent city thing ya know. I'll let you hold mine while we're waiting for yours though to help get ya through.

Imagine having T45 serial # 1. Makes my heart sing.

I too am not on any double stack band wagon. Kahr has a very good thing going, improve and perfect what they have and all will be right with the world. Work on that T45 though, I'm getting tired of waiting ya know?

[steve666]

I would love to see a .40 but... http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q730/Steve666t/double_zpsdd402f6e.jpg

[queevil]

I can't see a ds happening. A number of things would have to happen to make it happen. They would have to increase their brand recognition to complete with the more well established designs. Most people I know who have an interest in firearms have either never heard of Kahr or are only vaguely aware of the brand. Then it would have to be competitively priced. That won't happen in their steel line of pistols and probably not in their p series either. In the cw/cm series maybe. Then there's aftermarket parts support. Glock, XD and M&P do well in that respect. Without brand awareness their won't be enough Kahr owners to create a demand for aftermarket parts. Hell, Hogue doesn't even manufacture a nice rubber grip for Kahr steel pistols. I'm not implying that the management at Kahr doesn't have what it takes to break into the ds market but it would initially be an uphill battle and cost a lot of money with everything listed above plus r&d, tooling and manufacturing costs.

From the standpoint of design and functionality I have no doubt thay the talented Justin Moon a ds pistol that is a cut above the rest.

I think that if Kahr ever wanted to go the ds route they would do well to start with a new design save the trigger group. Maybe they should go the opposite route and not focus on tiny pistols in a ds design. It may even be in their best interest to market it under a different brand.

[Bill K]

Buy three of these... :)

http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploaded_files/ourguns/gallery/b_602ac9d947fa4ddc78e2b74954d8845eP11_7513.jpg

The P-11 is a semi-automatic, locked-breech, DAO, pistol, chambered for the 9mm Luger cartridge. Ten round and optional twelve round magazines available. The Kel- Tec P-11 is compact and lightweight, thanks to its locked breech. Its ergonometry, perceived recoil and practical accuracy are comparable to much larger guns. The P-11 is especially well suited for plain-clothes police officers, security personnel, or as a secondary weapon for military service members.

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Calibers: 9 x 19 mm Luger
Weight unloaded: 14 oz. 400g
Loaded magazine: 6 oz. 159g
Length: 5.6" 142mm
Height: 4.3" 109mm
Width: 1" 26mm
Barrel Length: 3.1" 79mm
Sight radius: 4.6" 116mm
Muzzle Energy Max: 400ft-lbs 540J
Capacity: 10 + 1
Trigger Pull: 9 lbs 40N

[JohnR]

They'd have to dump the "thin is in" ad campaign and hire some plus size girls for the photo shoot. I can see it..."double stack is in!" Wowzer.

[muggsy]

My personal feeling is that if Kahr want's to be more than a niche player they will eventually have to get into the double stack business. Kahr has done about all that they can do with single stacks. If they don't have brand recognition by now they never will have. In keeping with the slim is in campaign Kahr could strive to make the slimmest double stack 9mm possible. There is plenty of room for improvement in that area. A double stack .380 could be made no wider than a PM9. C'mon Kahr, we need something new to get excited about.

[Flincher]

I wouldn't want to see Kahr stray from their niche; that of building the highest quality, finest designed single stack pistols on the planet. And I hope Kahr stays away from modifying the frame dust cover with all that crap for hangin flashlights etc.

[JohnR]

...And I hope Kahr stays away from modifying the frame dust cover with all that crap for hangin flashlights etc.
Agreed!

Would a nice clean Kahr 9mm carbine be out of the question?

[JFootin]

Kahr is gradually gaining recognition and expanding their sales with the incredible value of the C series pistols. They have the CW380 and the CM45 rolling out. They are maxed out on production. I don't think they need to do anything else, right now. Like most firearm manufacturers, they know and history shows that overexpansion during high times can bite them when the next lean period occurs.

[chrish]

Would a nice clean Kahr 9mm carbine be out of the question?

Now that's an interesting concept as well.

On initial thought, I'd say I wouldn't want a carbine w/ the Kahr trigger. My sole porpose for a 9mm carbine would be SHTF and I'd want (hopefully lightening doesn't get me here) a Glock trigger. Let's shift that to a PPQ trigger, just to be safe. Speed would be the order of the day w/ a 9mm carbine.

[wyntrout]

I would like to see Kahr look at all of the "malfunctions"... real and imagined... AND self-inflicted... and get better at quality control. They could reevaluate their testing of pistols at the factory. They probably don't test slide lock chambering AND racking the pistols on each pistol.

Any of these problems with chambering a round because the stripper isn't beveled would have been discovered with their recommended slide lock release to chamber a round. The bevel and the "notch" should be checklist items on the new pistol inspection.

And the magazines... splitting .45 magazines, .40 followers breaking, and 9mm feed problems... should all be addressed. Some kind of stamped metal follower design would be better and in most cases allow one more round of ammo to be held! Why do the tubes need such a low front opening... the better to dive!??:confused:

In the .40's, it seems there are several problems with the follower and feed ramp design and/or imperfections.

They could also take this stuff into consideration and try to make them more fool proof.:rolleyes:

I hate to see them keep expanding into more products and not addressing some of the "major" problems we see here all of the time. I've bought THREE new polymer Kahrs and all have been back to the factory... at Kahr's cost. I'm not counting the K9... and I have three used ones, two of which, the P40 and P9 required some tinkering on my part to get reliable... the P40 much tinkering, but fine now.

Wynn:)

[queevil]

My personal feeling is that if Kahr want's to be more than a niche player they will eventually have to get into the double stack business. Kahr has done about all that they can do with single stacks. If they don't have brand recognition by now they never will have. In keeping with the slim is in campaign Kahr could strive to make the slimmest double stack 9mm possible. There is plenty of room for improvement in that area. A double stack .380 could be made no wider than a PM9. C'mon Kahr, we need something new to get excited about.

That's actually a pretty good idea. It could give me reason to warm up to the .380.

[phil413tx]

My personal feeling is that if Kahr want's to be more than a niche player they will eventually have to get into the double stack business. Kahr has done about all that they can do with single stacks. If they don't have brand recognition by now they never will have. In keeping with the slim is in campaign Kahr could strive to make the slimmest double stack 9mm possible. There is plenty of room for improvement in that area. A double stack .380 could be made no wider than a PM9. C'mon Kahr, we need something new to get excited about.

Can we get muggsy on the Kahr new product development team???? That is a great idea!

[Bawanna]

Come up with a 380 that holds 38 bullets and I might get excited.

Then it might be viable. I know they work, I know others have faith in them but I just like fatter bullets.

I'm more with Wynn, perfect what we got, then move on.

Although I think they are close already.

[jocko]

I would like to see Kahr look at all of the "malfunctions"... real and imagined... AND self-inflicted... and get better at quality control. They could reevaluate their testing of pistols at the factory. They probably don't test slide lock chambering AND racking the pistols on each pistol.

Any of these problems with chambering a round because the stripper isn't beveled would have been discovered with their recommended slide lock release to chamber a round. The bevel and the "notch" should be checklist items on the new pistol inspection.

And the magazines... splitting .45 magazines, .40 followers breaking, and 9mm feed problems... should all be addressed. Some kind of stamped metal follower design would be better and in most cases allow one more round of ammo to be held! Why do the tubes need such a low front opening... the better to dive!??:confused:

In the .40's, it seems there are several problems with the follower and feed ramp design and/or imperfections.

They could also take this stuff into consideration and try to make them more fool proof.:rolleyes:

I hate to see them keep expanding into more products and not addressing some of the "major" problems we see here all of the time. I've bought THREE new polymer Kahrs and all have been back to the factory... at Kahr's cost. I'm not counting the K9... and I have three used ones, two of which, the P40 and P9 required some tinkering on my part to get reliable... the P40 much tinkering, but fine now.

Wynn:)

disagree with some of ur suggestions. but IMO still should not hinder progress to a double stack or what ever. I feel sure tha tif kahr new every issue we seem to think they have that they wold be working on htem to, and I do feel they are workig on some of the issues discussed.their quality contril is an in house thing, not only product issues. Good quality contols catchs it be for eit leaves the door, \ut IMO these are very smallguns and they are queezing alot of crapola and it an't never gonna be perfecrt compared to the bigger semi's which seem not immune to issues either. I hear yet today of many many isuee sthe 1911 guys have yet. Hellthis is a j100 year old gun, one would think it should be 110%perfect out of the box,but it isn't. Not making excuses for kahr either but u don't stop R & D from doig their thing either. In my feeble mind, I think kahr needs a double stack in the polymer4 version--why not. Rember the first kahr model was a k9 and it was a bigt ass gun compare dto the cm and pm versions today, so they veered away from their first entry gun. Had they just stuck with the K series or only all steel versions. they wold b e a very small niche company, indeed.

I justhyave no doubt we will see a double stack of sumpin. My bet it will be a 9mm polymer first. Remember u heard it from ol jocko first. and I know nuttin:Amflag2:

[johnh]

I have advocated a double-stack all the way to the top. Keep it slim as possible but still enough extra rounds to have an advantage. Add some of the other features folks expect, such as light rail and removable backstrap. I think they would sell well. Of course with current demand Kahr's production is maxed out on current models. No need for new ones until they can ship them.

[jocko]

big gun maybe a sight rail. PM size, pass on it, interchangeable backstrips is sensible..