Do all steel Kahrs have tighter tolerances than their polymer frames?

[scandinavian01]

I love my Kahr PM9 (Black with night sights) made Dec 2009, but am considering selling it in place of an almost new MK9? This particular MK9 has tighter tolerances than my PM9? Do all steel Kahrs normally have tighter tolerances than their polymer frames?

[Flincher]

Some folks on this forum can answer that, but I own a CM9 and a P380. And from what I've seen, just the opposite may be true. IMO that top notch quality of Kahr shows in the very tight tolerances of the slide to polymer frame. Thus the all-important break in process.

[Ikeo74]

I love my Kahr PM9 (Black with night sights) made Dec 2009, but am considering selling it in place of an almost new MK9? This particular MK9 has tighter tolerances than my PM9? Do all steel Kahrs normally have tighter tolerances than their polymer frames?
I own both and I would say there will always be tighter tollerances in the all steel guns. Howerer it doesn't mean it will be harder to rack or opperate. The all steel guns are smooth.
I suggest that if you can manage the price, keep both guns. Then all your holsters and magazines will be interchangeable. You can have the best of both. As I have said before, "1 for show and 1 to go".

[kahrseye]

I can't offer any advice as to tolerances. But since I own both models, I'd have to agree with Ikeo74. Keep both if you can. I carry my PM9 95% of the time. I would not want to pocket carry my MK9, but certainly will with the PM9. Both are great guns, but you need to consider how and what you're going to carry most of the time.

[kcs1]

I have owned a MK9 for several years and picked up a pair of CM's (9 & 40) as a package deal last fall. IMO the CM's appear to have tighter tolerances than the MK9.

[jocko]

I love my Kahr PM9 (Black with night sights) made Dec 2009, but am considering selling it in place of an almost new MK9? This particular MK9 has tighter tolerances than my PM9? Do all steel Kahrs normally have tighter tolerances than their polymer frames?

all kahrs seem to have tight tolerance AT FIRST but no doubt after 200+ rounds the guns loosen up to be so much smoother to do things that u could not do at round #1. So IMO pay no attention to the tolerance crap. #1 is the gun must go bang every time, this is a defense gun. Some might even like a looser semi over a really tight one for defense purposes. THEY WORK BETTER NBO DOUBT. Each to his own, but accpet ur kahrs for what they were disigned for, not what u think they should be.. Just sayin:Amflag2:

MY PMJ9 has over 32K runds out of it, and I would not cvallit ;loose at all, I would callit though smoother than glass, in that what high spots were there at the git go are now gone and there is vitrually zero wear on anmy of my kahr rails. U cannot tell if it has 32K rounds our 500 rounds either.:Amflag2:

[kcs1]

I forgot to mention in my initial reply that I recently acquired an all S/S K40 that is in "like new" condition. It too does not feel as tight as the CM's with polymer frames.

[Nimrod]

Jocko said it right. All Kahrs have tight tolerances. That is why you need a break in period. After they have been shot a while, they get smooth. Some may think they are too loose, but they are not.

[QuercusMax]

I'm not sure what "tight tolerance" really means, especially in terms of performance.

In most cases, a tight "tolerance" means that you really need to keep things maintained well or it won't work. Case in point being an AK-47 vs US equivalent, where it's well-known that a key strength of the the AK is that it does NOT have tight tolerance and thus works well under adverse conditions. Tight tolerance might mean that when things work well, they work really well, but otherwise they don't work at all.

Having said this, I don't see a difference between the various Kahr models.

[jocko]

OK, MY 21 CENTS ON THIS.

lOOK AT UR ALL STEELKAHRS, THE SLIDE RUNS COMPLETLEY from front to back on two steel rails cut to fit inside the slide grooves. Now look at our kahr poly's the ony steel part that actually fits the square cut of the slide is the back rails at the end of the frame.the front rails if u look are just like slices of steel, that fit somewhere between the squared out rals of the slide.they are there to guide more than anything else.They certanly cannot add to any felt feel of tightness.

So IMO the steel will feel tighter due to the above, but is it gona be a 1" grouper over the poly maybe 1.5" grouper. ??? I doubt it in the sense that the trigger systems on both are all the same and as u know kahrs trigger system is not the easiest to master and certainly if it was gonna be in the target style class, it would have a different trigger system to. My K9 is not tighter than my PMJ9, both for me are smoother than glass.
The ak47 is a good example that QWuercus Max brought up. damn fokker wokrs better than anything we ever made.OUr acutal Military 1911's were no virgins either for tightness, but they worked.

When the loaded magazine is in the gun, most will notice the looseness if any is gone as now the loaded magazie is now ushing up the slide from the bottom

Just shoot it like u stole it. We can nitpick all we want but it is what it is..

[kerby9mm]

My mk9 slide to frame fit is just slightly looser than my mk40 which has almost no side to side movement. The k9's I have handled are noticeably looser but from what I have read that makes no difference it all depends on lockup in battery with round in chamber. The differences could be just built in design differences varying from model to model.

[Redstate]

I had a K9 (which I wish I never sold) that was very loose slide to frame fit. I have P9 Covert that is about as loose as the K9 was, but not quite. I have an MK9 that is very tight in comparison. A co-worker has a CM9 that is very tight, but has only about 200 rounds through it. My Covert has over 2500 rounds, and my MK has about 1000. Bottom line is that i don't know the answer to your question.

[b4uqzme]

My mk9 slide to frame fit is just slightly looser than my mk40 which has almost no side to side movement. The k9's I have handled are noticeably looser but from what I have read that makes no difference it all depends on lockup in battery with round in chamber. The differences could be just built in design differences varying from model to model.

For me it is the exact opposite. K40 is looser than MK9. K40 also seems to run better. Could it be that all Kahrs are tight but each gun is unique? I'm not sure what motivated your original post but I wouldn't let this issue factor into which gun to choose. Keep them both then go shopping for another. :D

[Barth]

I only have the all stainless MK40 Elite.
NIB it was scary tight and unreliable.
Really difficult to field strip and assemble.
In fact I bent the slide stop spring trying to reassemble it.
200 rounds later I only had occasional FTFs with Speer GDHP Short Barrel
that have a hollow point like a big mouth bass.
At around 400 rounds the gun started running like butter.
Now it's 100% reliable with anything.
And field strips easily.

The gun is still hard to rack.
And has a tighter fit than any of my other handguns.
It's kind of like a fitted, tuned, micro 1911 to me.

I wasn't happy with the extended break in period.
But now the gun is a little stainless work of art that functions flawlessly.

I can and do pocket carry my MK40 in a DeSantis Super Fly.
The trick is still wearing a reinforced gun belt.
And a good pair of tactical double stitch pants help too.

I'll add that my 11.1 oz S&W 342 ti gets pocket time too.
Keeping a PM/CM9 and adding a MK9 is a fine idea.

[jocko]

My mk9 slide to frame fit is just slightly looser than my mk40 which has almost no side to side movement. The k9's I have handled are noticeably looser but from what I have read that makes no difference it all depends on lockup in battery with round in chamber. The differences could be just built in design differences varying from model to model.

some kahrs are tighter, some seem looser, neithger one will give u an issue, both will shoot better than u can shoot it. Some shoot in fater than others so when u read that ones gun is tight, it cold be that it has just not had enogh rounds through it "yet". try not to compare one gun to anutter gun, for it will just confuse and certainly solve nuttin.

U outta shoot my brother in laws military 1911 orginal. u can stick a cows leg between the slide and the frame. damn thing shot pretty good for a fokking 45.:amflag:

[Bawanna]

45 hatin old goat!

[AIRret]

For me it is the exact opposite. K40 is looser than MK9. K40 also seems to run better. Could it be that all Kahrs are tight but each gun is unique? I'm not sure what motivated your original post but I wouldn't let this issue factor into which gun to choose. Keep them both then go shopping for another. :D

There is always room for one, two, three, more guns.
The trick is staying proficient with what you CARRY!!

[Barth]

45 hatin old goat!

I'm still jonesing for all stainless Kahr 45.
Bawanna, can't you put in the word for a Kahrtalk group buy?
They could have some slick custom wood grips....

[Bawanna]

I'm still jonesing for all stainless Kahr 45.
Bawanna, can't you put in the word for a Kahrtalk group buy?
They could have some slick custom wood grips....

Don't I wish. I'm still awaiting a reply to my application to be a custodian at the Kahr plant. Been a long time.

I guess the part where I mentioned the plant had to move to a friendlier political climate is probably not helping my cause.

[O'Dell]

I'm still jonesing for all stainless Kahr 45.
Bawanna, can't you put in the word for a Kahrtalk group buy?
They could have some slick custom wood grips....

Me too - an MK45!

[b4uqzme]

Me too - an MK45!

Me three

[JFootin]

I'm still jonesing for all stainless Kahr 45.
Bawanna, can't you put in the word for a Kahrtalk group buy?
They could have some slick custom wood grips....

Me too - an MK45!

Hey, already been done. Para is getting back up to speed and they say the LDA Carry (http://www.para-usa.com/firearms/lda/ldaCarry_45.php) is "coming soon." I think she's purty! :p Probably won't have grip screws coming loose every session, either.

I think this might be the one to get me into a compact carry 45.

http://www.para-usa.com/images/large/96643_lda_carry.png

Hey Bawanna, I know you can make some gorgeous grips for this! :D

[O'Dell]

The Para is about the same size as my Kimber UCII and STI Escort and quite a bit heavier than either. It's just not in the same class as an MK45 would be.

[Bawanna]

I couldn't say since an MK45 doesn't exist yet but I do have 3 Para LDA's and they are darn nice and tough to beat especially for those that want all the good things of a 1911 without having the hammer back. Much for forgiving.

I actually just lied but it was a little white lie and momma says a little white lie never hurt nobody.
I only have two now. I gave my favorite full size single stack limited to my youngest son for graduation.
I need to see if he'll let me hold it and maybe clean it for him, haven't done so for a long time.

And Jfootin, I most assuredly can make handles for that. Let me know when your ready.

[JFootin]

The Para is about the same size as my Kimber UCII and STI Escort and quite a bit heavier than either. It's just not in the same class as an MK45 would be.

Yeah, I couldn't find the weight on their new USA website. But I picked it because of the LDA trigger being more like a Kahr. Those other two are alloy framed, aren't they?...

Yeah, the UCII is aluminum and 25 oz with empty mag. Wow! Have you seen this, The Micro Carry (http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/micro-carry/micro-carry)? How have I missed this? Why don't we ever hear about it? 13.4 oz, 8 lb recoil spring, smooth 7 lb trigger and claimed mild recoil. Nice! I assume it has a single action trigger.?

[O'Dell]

Yeah, I couldn't find the weight on their new USA website. But I picked it because of the LDA trigger being more like a Kahr. Those other two are alloy framed, aren't they?...

Yeah, the UCII is aluminum and 25 oz with empty mag. Wow! Have you seen this, The Micro Carry (http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/micro-carry/micro-carry)? How have I missed this? Why don't we ever hear about it? 13.4 oz, 8 lb recoil spring, smooth 7 lb trigger and claimed mild recoil. Nice! I assume it has a single action trigger.?

Yeah the Kimber and STI are aluminum framed - the STI weighs 22.6 ozs which would probably be less than a MK45 if they made one. I think the MK40 is 23 ozs. All my pistols are polymer or alloy framed except the MK40 and the Detonics 1911, including the other two 1911's, a SIG and lightweight Springfield. I like light!

[JFootin]

Yeah the Kimber and STI are aluminum framed - the STI weighs 22.6 ozs which would probably be less than a MK45 if they made one. I think the MK40 is 23 ozs. All my pistols are polymer or alloy framed except the MK40 and the Detonics 1911, including the other two 1911's, a SIG and lightweight Springfield. I like light!

That STI looks nice. I think I'd get it carry melted and Ceracoated, though.

I wish Para would do a lightweight LDA like that. I prefer not to be dealing with a very necessary safety when carrying cocked and locked, and how else would you carry a 1911? Plus, being a lefty, I would have to get the right side safety. And we lefties are used to having the gun's flat right side against our bodies, so having a lever on that side is bothersome. I guess you righties are used to having multiple levers on the inside. Seems like it could be uncomfortable.

[O'Dell]

That STI looks nice. I think I'd get it carry melted and Ceracoated, though.

I wish Para would do a lightweight LDA like that. I prefer not to be dealing with a very necessary safety when carrying cocked and locked, and how else would you carry a 1911? Plus, being a lefty, I would have to get the right side safety. And we lefties are used to having the gun's flat right side against our bodies, so having a lever on that side is bothersome. I guess you righties are used to having multiple levers on the inside. Seems like it could be uncomfortable.

Yeah, it does look nice, but I'm not sure why I bought it. I think I was intrigued by the name, STI. Since I got the Kimber sorted, I never carry the Escort. Mostly I carry my CW45. It's the lightest of my 45's.

I guess we feel different about triggers and manual safeties. The primary reason I switched from SIG's to HK's is the manual safety. The SIG's don't have one so you can't carry one "cocked and locked". I also like DA/SA for the triggers or, in the case of the 1911's, SA only. Of my 15 pistols only the three Kahrs and the LCP have a DA trigger.