any benefit? +P in 3.5" bbl?

[hangdog]

Good site here.
Used Kahrasaurous; early 95 K9, rated for +p+ as I understand it. ??
I was fortunate to pick up some +P 135gr. stuff lately, but have been told that +P is maybe not that great in such a short barrel. I may have access to chronograph? Are there links to any previous tests or hearsay here?

My question/s are;
what is the minimum bbl. length to appreciably notice the value of the +p loads?

New, stock 20 lb. recoil spring on the way. I'll trade it out before any field test w/+p loads.

Just to be legal;...I'm perfectly happy with the Factory Rem. standard 115 HP; same POI as their 115 FMJ and my matched handloads...Unique 5.2gr. W/Montana Gold 115 FMJ.

Learn till you tip over!

As always, thanks
hangdog

[Planedude]

Well, +P 135grn rounds will be louder. You can not help but get a bit more volocity over a standard pressure 124grn round, but will that equate to better stops? Try them and see if you hit well with them. If you do your golden. Trick is you got to hit well with them.
Try some standard pressure loads in the gun for SD acuraccy (fist size goups put where they count at 7 to 10 yards) then try the same with your +P rounds. If your groups stay the same, you have a winner.
Pay attention to flash and noise with +P rounds in a short bbl gun. If the fight for your life takes place in the dark, well flashblind and deaf is a tough way to win.
Good luck on the range, it's always fun to find out what works best. Enjoy!

[wyntrout]

I keep my K9 stuffed with +P Double Tap 124-gr Gold Dots because that's what I could get when I did. I use +P 124-gr Gold Dots Short Barrel in my P9 and PM9. I like bonded bullets and +P for SD loads. The Short Barrel version is for 3" or so barrels and uses a different powder for quicker burning and lower flash. I use the GDSB where it's available in my 9mm(124-gr), .40(180-gr), and .45(230-gr) Kahrs. Kahrs are rated for +P not +P+.

Checkout Ballistic by the Inch. They have done some great testing on velocity vs. barrel lengths:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

Also, almost every yahoo has done penetration and velocity tests and posted them on YouTube, in addition to real experts and manufacturers. Just Google.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

seems like there is more +P ammo brands and variations available over standard stuff in the 9's. I have no particular brand in mind but my kahrs all have +P in them . WHY? for me it just seemd allt he reading Ihad done showed that +P was the round of choice for most all 9 shooters. I went with the majority and saved my brain any further thinking

[ripley16]

Once you change out the original spring and install a new one, your K9 is no longer a +P+ gun. The extra heavy spring, 24# IIRC, made the difference.

In my experience; any Gold Dot, PDX1 and Hornady TAP work well in my Kahrs.

[muggsy]

This is just my personal opinion, but if you can put two center mass I don't think that the perp will be able to tell the difference between a standard pressure round and a +P round. Either round will ruin his day.

[chrish]

As bullet design has become much improved over the years, I don't think +P offers as much bang for the buck (sorry for the pun) that it once did. Some will disagree, but if you look at tests between a couple of the newer bullet designs on the market today (Winchester PDX1 and Hornady Critical Duty), the expansion and penetration thru multiple barriers, the +P versions offer little benefit. I think, as muggsy said, not much difference if you are on the receiving end, but I'm just not seeing it in the numbers. Also, +P will impact your accuracy. In most anybody I've ever shot with, regardless of how well they shoot, if you compare speed and accuracy between standard and +P, standard will be better. Follow-up shots will be better IMO. I just don't care for the snappy +P loads. I also believe, as you are alluding to, that in anything under a 4" barrel, it's debatable whether +P is even worth it. Recoil is worse, short barrel might not even be allowing the rated speed/fps of +P to be achieved.

For those reasons. I primarily carry 147gr PDX1. I'd rather have the heavier bullet. I also carry the Critical Duty in 135 grain (standard load).

[Bawanna]

I've never had much use for +P anything. Never used it in anything. Actually hard to find 38 Special that isn't +P or super powered or something.

Far more important to be able to hit what your aiming at than to worry about what super latest bestest ashtray bullet you can get.

Just attempts to make a mouse gun into a major player. Why buy +P when you can buy a 45 and be done with it.

I agree with Muggsy, any of them are gonna ruin your day.

[jocko]

I've never had much use for +P anything. Never used it in anything. Actually hard to find 38 Special that isn't +P or super powered or something.

Far more important to be able to hit what your aiming at than to worry about what super latest bestest ashtray bullet you can get.

Just attempts to make a mouse gun into a major player. Why buy +P when you can buy a 45 and be done with it.

I agree with Muggsy, any of them are gonna ruin your day.

u jest colonel:Amflag2:

[BucketBack]

I use +P GDJHP's in my CW9 because that's what my Glock eats and I have a bunch available

[chrish]

I use +P GDJHP's in my CW9 because that's what my Glock eats and I have a bunch available

An excellent point. I wouldn't go out and invest in another stock of ammo just to get away from +P. If you have plenty and you shoot it well enough in a sub-compact pistol like a Kahr CW/CM/P/PM then by all means, go for it.

PS...I thought Glocks would eat anything, including shooting all calibers from any given caliber pistol? (had to go there)

[JimC]

Good site here.
Used Kahrasaurous; early 95 K9, rated for +p+ as I understand it. ??
I was fortunate to pick up some +P 135gr. stuff lately, but have been told that +P is maybe not that great in such a short barrel. I may have access to chronograph? Are there links to any previous tests or hearsay here?

My question/s are;
what is the minimum bbl. length to appreciably notice the value of the +p loads?

New, stock 20 lb. recoil spring on the way. I'll trade it out before any field test w/+p loads.

Just to be legal;...I'm perfectly happy with the Factory Rem. standard 115 HP; same POI as their 115 FMJ and my matched handloads...Unique 5.2gr. W/Montana Gold 115 FMJ.

Learn till you tip over!

As always, thanks
hangdog

Any benefit? I think so if you use one of the Speer short barrel SD loadings in a handgun.

I like the Speer 124 gr. GDHP load, # 23611, for use in my PM9 w/the 3.1" bbl.

Velocity readings:

Avg. 6 rds. - 1116.6 fps.
Avg. 6 rds. - 1121.2 fps.

I have found that it is not as loud as the Win. 124 gr. +p PDX1 bonded load.
For what you can detect in daylight, it has less muzzle flash.

The accuracy is more than sufficient for a SD round out of a 3.1" bbl. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Kahr%20PM9/IMG_2441_680x510copy_zps4a47de9a.jpg

[gmcjetpilot]

If there is any doubt about +P in short barrel:
(clearly bigger bullets going faster than smaller ones = more energy)
http://imageshack.us/a/img4/9031/419s.png


Hornady 135Gr Critical Duty +P, CCI Speer 124Gr Gold Dot +P, Federal 124Gr HST +P
http://imageshack.us/a/img51/7950/h2rk.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img844/5186/xb55.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img823/8576/z5h9.jpg

[muggsy]

Good site here.
Used Kahrasaurous; early 95 K9, rated for +p+ as I understand it. ??
I was fortunate to pick up some +P 135gr. stuff lately, but have been told that +P is maybe not that great in such a short barrel. I may have access to chronograph? Are there links to any previous tests or hearsay here?

My question/s are;
what is the minimum bbl. length to appreciably notice the value of the +p loads?

New, stock 20 lb. recoil spring on the way. I'll trade it out before any field test w/+p loads.

Just to be legal;...I'm perfectly happy with the Factory Rem. standard 115 HP; same POI as their 115 FMJ and my matched handloads...Unique 5.2gr. W/Montana Gold 115 FMJ.

Learn till you tip over!

As always, thanks
hangdog

I don't believe that any manufacturer rates their guns for +P+ since there are no SAMMI specifications for +P+ ammo.

[mr surveyor]

I don't believe that any manufacturer rates their guns for +P+ since there are no SAMMI specifications for +P+ ammo.




ditto

[gmcjetpilot]

Well I bought a Chronograph and found some interesting info. First the
obvious, the Glock 26 with a 3.42" barrel produced about 2%-8% faster
velocities than my Kahr CM9... no shock.

My 115Gr was averaging 1055 fps out of the Glock and 1001 fps from the
Kahr. I am very happy with my recipe which is:



Berry or Rainer Plated 115Gr RN Bullet
Winchester 231 = 4.50 Gr to 4.63 Gr (tolerance of my powder thrower)
Recommended Win 231 start/max is 4.3Gr/4.8Gr for lead, conservative for plated
I have seen up to 4.7Gr/5.1Gr max for Speer GDHP bullets with 231 powder.
OAL = 1.140" +/-0.002" (max spec OAL for 9mm 1.169)
I use Lee hand press and Lee 4 piece die set, do the crimp separate.
From my data I could lower the OAL a little to get a little more pressure. I
am still fairly new to reloading, having loaded about 250 rounds and
shot about 200 of them. I have been improving my techniques. However
they all have fed great, were accurate, great rounds to practice with. I
paid a lot for supplies but figure I am reloading at 0.20 a round. Not great
but then again I bought supplies during the recent ammo craze; paying
20% to 30% more for some supplies.

[muggsy]

seems like there is more +P ammo brands and variations available over standard stuff in the 9's. I have no particular brand in mind but my kahrs all have +P in them . WHY? for me it just seemd allt he reading Ihad done showed that +P was the round of choice for most all 9 shooters. I went with the majority and saved my brain any further thinking

I don't think that there is any danger of you straining your brain, Jocko. Just sayin. :)

[jocko]

thank u muggs, I consider that a compliment. jUST SAYIN.

[Bawanna]

With 9's you need to soup them up anyway you can so they hurt people when hit. Sort of like throwing pebbles versus say a sling shot. Sling shot hurts worse.

[yqtszhj]

With 9's you need to soup them up anyway you can so they hurt people when hit. Sort of like throwing pebbles versus say a sling shot. Sling shot hurts worse.

There we go....

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: