Advice on AK / AR Pistol

[southsound]

I know that I can rely on the sage advice of the many AK and AR owners here so here goes... My bride and I currently have 2 S&W M&P 9c's, her EDC is a Bodyguard 380 and mine is a Kahr CM9. We also have a 12 gauge Maverick pump and a 22lr Mossburg Plinkster with a scope. (Just nailed 2 coyotes with the 22lr.)

What I'm looking for now is another weapon for if/when the SHTF. Like Melissa5 and others on the forum, I've read the rest of the book and with the current state of affairs, I know that things are about to get very dicey. My thoughts are to purchase an AK or AR pistol and a couple K of ammo for it. I never considered purchasing a modern sporting rifle in the past so I have no idea how prices were for ammo and these weapons were before BO - but right now I can get 762 ammo for 1/4 the cost of 556. That tells me that I could have a pretty good stock of 762 but only a meager supply of 556 with our budget. I also am not sure what kind of weapon to purchase - if I go the 556 route, I like the Sig P556 even though it may takes months to be available. If I go 762, I was thinking of either the SAM7K or the PAP M92PV. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Bawanna]

I'm no authority on AK's, want one myself though. I would definitely get the rifle version. The pistol's look like fun toys and I'd like one too but the rifle is far more meaningful and easier to shoot at distance.

I've heard Arsenal is the brand to get but again, I have no first hand experience.

[jeepster09]

I would also get the rifle version. I had a pistol type and will tell you "you have not heard loud" till you shoot one of those. I got rid of mine for that reason....YOU MUST ALWAYS WEAR EAR PROTECTION when shooting. To me, the noise factor was not worth it.

[TheTman]

I'd just get an AK and add a folding stock, or AR with adjustable stock. That way you have rifle when needed, and something shorter for close quarters. And have the longer barrel for more FPS/FPE.

[yqtszhj]

Where's Barth, newest local owner of the AK74 style pistol?

[Salty]

I don't think you will enjoy a pistol AK or AR. I have tried them both and don't have either one anymore. If you have to have a pistol a built up HK 93 (C93) pistol model is offered by CAI and is your best 5.56 option. I suggest a couple of options for you in addition to above comments. What you want is expensive today vs 2 months ago. You need to evaluate the availability and cost of magazines and ammo. I don't reload for my 7.62x39's as ammo has been available and cheap.
You can get a Ruger Mini 14 or 30 and have either caliber covered. You can get a Choate folding stock for either one and have a pistol grip and short weapon. Mags are available on Gunbroker. They are accurate enough, simple to maintain and reliable.
mini 14 or mini 30 - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333398621
I would get a Norinco in an AK if you can find one. I have tried most of them and if you don't get a milled receiver the Norinco's are good rifles.
AK - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333398621
A less expensive option would be a SKS - also a Norinco unless you can find a Russian. You can get a folding Choate stock for it also - however you won't have a high cap magazine capability unless you find a rare one that takes AK mags.
SKS - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=333366445
Good luck in today's market.

[ltxi]

Other than something like a Thompson Contender I'm no fan at all of rifle calibers in hand guns.

I agree with the SKS recommendation. I have several from restored Russian to Chinese stamped shooter play toys. Honestly, for reliable shtf arms any not shot out beat to hell versions will work equally well. Any of them should be good for 3" MOA or better otb. The rest is just pride of ownership. Any SKS is easily convertible to high cap detachable mags. In lieu of that, their as god intended use with 10 round stripper clips work as well if not better.

[southsound]

Good information so far - that's what I've come to expect on this forum. Thanks to all who have replied. Anyone else care to share their thoughts?

[LorenzoB]

Whats Up with AR-15 Pistols?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/foghorn/ask-foghornl-whats-up-with-ar-15-pistols/

[melissa5]

I agree with everyone else about not getting an AR/AK pistol. The idea of a folding stock on a rifle, I like. Yep, Arsenal is supposed to be the best for an AK. What you need to decide is what distances you would like to shoot. An AR will let you shoot longer distances. The AK is good up to 300 yards from what I've read. You've already discovered one benefit of 7.62 over 5.56 these days...price and probably availability.

I had a Bulgarian Arsenal AK with a folding stock and was happy with it until I found out that I couldn't easily change it over to an adjustable stock. Now I've got a Russian Arsenal that is just perfect. They are pricey though. Not sure what they cost before the panic.

[Barth]

I know that I can rely on the sage advice of the many AK and AR owners here so here goes... My bride and I currently have 2 S&W M&P 9c's, her EDC is a Bodyguard 380 and mine is a Kahr CM9. We also have a 12 gauge Maverick pump and a 22lr Mossburg Plinkster with a scope. (Just nailed 2 coyotes with the 22lr.)

What I'm looking for now is another weapon for if/when the SHTF. Like Melissa5 and others on the forum, I've read the rest of the book and with the current state of affairs, I know that things are about to get very dicey. My thoughts are to purchase an AK or AR pistol and a couple K of ammo for it. I never considered purchasing a modern sporting rifle in the past so I have no idea how prices were for ammo and these weapons were before BO - but right now I can get 762 ammo for 1/4 the cost of 556. That tells me that I could have a pretty good stock of 762 but only a meager supply of 556 with our budget. I also am not sure what kind of weapon to purchase - if I go the 556 route, I like the Sig P556 even though it may takes months to be available. If I go 762, I was thinking of either the SAM7K or the PAP M92PV. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

IMHO - AK/AR pistols are basically PDWs for Close Quarters Combat at pistol distances.
SBRs increase that effective range.
Carbines and longer heavy barreled sniper guns increase that range farther.
Ammo choice and caliber is dependent on range and barrier penetration.

As with any mission,
you need to adjust your weapons and ammo to the parameters of that mission.

Some sort of carbine or folding stock AK/AR may be the best compromise.
If you really want a rifle caliber pistol?
Think PDW where the gun is light and fires a small caliber bullet for low recoil.
The expensive high tech versions are FN PS90 and HK MP7A1 firing small caliber specialty ammo.

More reasonable are the AK/AR pistols.
ARs can be unreliable from a short barrel.
Milled AKs in 7.62 can be heavy and have a lot of recoil.

My solution to a PDW is the Arsenal SLR-106U.
The Bulgarian AK has a 5.5 lbs stamped receiver and a 10.5" chrome lined barrel.
The so called Krinkov short gas system works great with short barrels.
And Bulgaria is part of NATO so it's chambered in 5.56/.223.
The trick to operating one is using the two point sling.
By pushing out on the sling it stabilizes the weapon, and takes some of the weight off your hands, making it SBR like.
And with Pro Ears Ultra 33 muffs the sound is no problem at all.
uuIWupfoI-k

[Bawanna]

OK Barth. Where have you been? My red phone has been ringing off its stand with people wondering what I did to rile ya.

I of course pleaded no contest and take no responsibility.

[Barth]

OK Barth. Where have you been? My red phone has been ringing off its stand with people wondering what I did to rile ya.

I of course pleaded no contest and take no responsibility.

The picture thingy pissed me off.
No fault of yours.
I'll get over it.

[Bawanna]

The picture thingy pissed me off.
No fault of yours.
I'll get over it.


Please let me know when something piss's you off. I had no idea you reacted in any way good or bad.

Please do get over it. I was gone over a week and nobody noticed, you were gone 2 days and numerous folks were concerned about your health and wondered where you were. Almost teared me up but I manned up and got thru it.

We walk a fine line sometimes, usually pretty lax around here but we also have to consider what others both members and those 47%ers who would use anything against us to move forward their misdirected goals.

[JFootin]

Barth, I addressed you on my PPQ thread (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=230179#post230179) and sent you a couple of PMs about an EFK Firedragon extended ported barrel I just got for my PPQ. I want your expert opinion about it, seeing as how you are the guru of custom barrels around here! :D:86:
I am hoping it will help tame the surprising felt recoil from the PPQ. What do you think?

[Barth]

Barth, I addressed you on my PPQ thread (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=230179#post230179) and sent you a couple of PMs about an EFK Firedragon extended ported barrel I just got for my PPQ. I want your expert opinion about it, seeing as how you are the guru of custom barrels around here! :D:86:
I am hoping it will help tame the surprising felt recoil from the PPQ. What do you think?

Read and responded to your PM.
Good luck with your new barrel.

[Barth]

Barth, I addressed you on my PPQ thread (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=230179#post230179) and sent you a couple of PMs about an EFK Firedragon extended ported barrel I just got for my PPQ. I want your expert opinion about it, seeing as how you are the guru of custom barrels around here! :D:86:
I am hoping it will help tame the surprising felt recoil from the PPQ. What do you think?

http://www.carlwalther.com/images/p99_comp_rt.jpg

[JFootin]

http://www.carlwalther.com/images/p99_comp_rt.jpg

Thanks Barth. :) I have been reading threads on the Walther forum where guys are trying with no luck to find the threaded barrel and compensator for the P99. Just not available. I wouldn't want it anyway because I am into CC and SD, not target competition. The felt recoil of my PPQ is a minor concern, just more than I expected - more than my CM9, for goodness sake. I just want to be able to take 3 loaded mags to the range and shoot 46 rounds comfortably. My new extended, ported barrel should tame it down. It looks like this...

http://www.efkfiredragon.com/prodimages/XDS_lg.jpg

[Barth]

Thanks Barth. :) I have been reading threads on the Walther forum where guys are trying with no luck to find the threaded barrel and compensator for the P99. Just not available. I wouldn't want it anyway because I am into CC and SD, not target competition. The felt recoil of my PPQ is a minor concern, just more than I expected - more than my CM9, for goodness sake. I just want to be able to take 3 loaded mags to the range and shoot 46 rounds comfortably. My new extended, ported barrel should tame it down. It looks like this...

http://www.efkfiredragon.com/prodimages/XDS_lg.jpg

Jarvis makes threaded barrels for PPQ 9mm in multiple thread patters.
Walther Pistol Barrels
http://www.jarvis-custom.com/Products/tabid/53/ctl/ProductDetail/productId/21/mid/388/Default.aspx
http://www.jarvis-custom.com/DesktopModules/snapApps.snapCart/Image.aspx?ImageType=1&ProductId=21&PortalId=0

Grizzly Gunworks
Compensator - Walther Handguns - 8x75, 13.5x1 LH and 1/2-28
http://shop.grizzlygunworks.com/Compensator-Walther-Handguns-8x75-135x1-LH-and-1-2-28-WALTHERHANDGUNCOMPS.htm;jsessionid=8610225AEFEB2E2 C8455320E54CFA0D2.qscstrfrnt04
http://shop.grizzlygunworks.com/images/1324992683750-2101186114.jpeghttp://shop.grizzlygunworks.com/images/1350576395988-1636502145.jpeghttp://shop.grizzlygunworks.com/images/1324992677374-556909245.jpeg



As for ports? I prefer the Storm Lake design.
http://d11vz9wqs1hu8z.cloudfront.net/images/barrels/SF-XDS-40SW-2P-475-00T-STD-STD-STD.png