Firing Without The Mag In

[Giortire]

Hi All,

My wife is writing a book, and there is a Kahr CM9, which is used by the main character.
She asked me a question which I am embarrassed that I cant answer (since i have two CM9s).
Can you drop the mag, with one in the pipe and still fire the gun? I told her I was pretty sure you can, but nor positive. She is careful with her research and asked me to get on the forum and make sure
Thanks for your help with this, I guess everyone can always learn something.

[Gringo Pistolero]

Research the warning (in red) on page three of your manual.

Yes, it will fire.

I like the warning on the cover even better. "...will fire if the trigger is pulled." Pretty much says it all! :)

[Ikeo74]

That is both a warning and a plus advantage. You use it when changing magazines during a gun fight. It gives you another chance to shoot while defending your life and wanting to change mags before shooting the last round in the gun. You are not unarmed during the change. That is the reason I would never buy a S&W old style pistol.

[Longitude Zero]

Kahrs will shoot sans mag. I am aware of many documented "saves" with the old style magazine disconnector in S&W pistols. Several were to LEO's and a few to a civilian shooters.

[Ikeo74]

Kahrs will shoot sans mag. I am aware of many documented "saves" with the old style magazine disconnector in S&W pistols. Several were to LEO's and a few to a civilian shooters.
These saves you refer to are also known as saves from a "ND" by inatendant users.

[wyntrout]

Often, depending on the pistol, the spent brass will fall through the mag well into your hand... don't catch it... it's hot!:eek: Jus' saying'.

Wynn:D

[Giortire]

When in doubt read the manual! Duh!

Thanks for everyone's help. I will tell her to mention the forum in the aknowlegements.

[O'Dell]

My son blew away a light switch in my house by ejecting the mag in my PM45 and pulling the trigger. No mag safeties here.

[Bawanna]

My son blew away a light switch in my house by ejecting the mag in my PM45 and pulling the trigger. No mag safeties here.

Were you satisfied with the terminal ballistics of the bullet. Did it expand and cause devastating damage.

Would you call it a one shot stop on the light switch.

Most LE guys and instructors hate mag disconnects. As usual I'm a little different, I always figured it for a last ditch dump the mag if you thought it was gonna get took.
Of course it's a king size pain the posterior working on guns with them as you have to put the mag in every time to see if the trigger is right etc.

Always have to do double diligence and handy to have an empty mag around.

[jocko]

so in essence then the mag disconnet might not be a bad thing for 90% of gun owners??? Just sayin

When I had my M &P tuned by David bowie, he asked me if i wanted the disconnet out of the gun. I thinking back then to be macho acho, said most certainly. Prior to sendng that gun in, I never had one issue with the disconnnect nor did I even realize it was there. I kept thegun loaded all the time.

I could very easily see how a woan might indeed like the disconnet feature on a kahr, being their such a B!tch to hand rack for many women. Just pop the mag out of the gun ad it is 100% safe from nit-witt kids and when a woman wanted to take the gun out with her, pop in the magazine and it was alive and ready to go. None of this jscrewing around with racking the slide stuff. Most woman I would think woulld callthis an asset not a liability.

I'm not defending the mag disconnet but I have never read of one ever malfunctioning etc. Just my 21 cents in this matter

[Bawanna]

Lighten up on my girls ya old goat. Now your gender bias and Rosie is probably gonna come by your house and slap you around.

Just trying to help protect you from hate crimes ya know?

Most of my violet coworkers can't walk and chew gum at the same time but these are specially hand picked professionals picked by bigger fatter violets who also can't chew gum and waddle at the same time.

I'm a freaking outcast.

[jocko]

I am not a racists. I HATE EVERYBODY. Just sayin:blah:


semper vulgare.

[Longitude Zero]

These saves you refer to are also known as saves from a "ND" by inatendant users.

Nope ALL were gun grabs by the bad guy and the good guy managed to "dump" the mag and render the weapon unusable. Ayoob has several stories about how the S&W mag disconnector saved lives.

[jocko]

if ur really hesitant for change, then try reusing ur toilet paper. Just sayin

[O'Dell]

Were you satisfied with the terminal ballistics of the bullet. Did it expand and cause devastating damage.

Would you call it a one shot stop on the light switch.



Oh yeah, that switch was toast - it blew it apart and right out of the wall. If I hadn't been so angry, I would have had to admit it was a pretty good shot. He was aiming at it and it was twenty feet away and in a darkened hall. After hitting the switch the slug made a 90 degree turn and exited through the outside wall and into the yard. I never did find it, but I had to replace the switch and switch plate, repair the wall and the siding on the outside of the house. The pistol was later stolen and just maybe that was a good thing. :32:

[jocko]

and ur telling me this was with a 45???? 1/8" dryway. , paper siding, no insulation. Yup its possable I guess..

[Bawanna]

It's happens to the best. Jeff Cooper put a round in his power meter on the side of his house or shop. Friends managed to get the thing somehow after it was replaced and had it bronzed and presented it to him later.

What are friends for ya know.

[Bawanna]

and ur telling me this was with a 45???? 1/8" dryway. , paper siding, no insulation. Yup its possable I guess..

Probably good it wasn't one of them devastating 9mm's. Probably would have ricocheted, come back and hit somebody in the eye and made it water up and be hard to see for a minute or two.

[Ikeo74]

Here is my take on mag disconnects. People that have them get used to not checking the chamber after they remove the magazine. Then when they handle a gun without the disconnect and remove the magazine they still don't check the chamber. It can lead to them pulling the trigger to take the pressure off the striker springs, or to clean the gun and thats when the problems start. :blah:
If you have time and presence of mind enough to release the magazine before the bad guy takes it away from you, you could have shot the SOB.

[Bawanna]

I can certainly see that happening. I used to have several 3rd generation Smiths with the mag disconnects. I never noticed it unless I was testing something.

I think it's safe to say that most LE do not like the mag disconnect. That want that round in the chamber useable during a mag switch if they are jumped during the reload.

I think not checking the chamber with or without a disconnect is bad policy.

I can go either way myself. I'm not pro or con, I slightly prefer without but it's not a landslide.

They say people either love or hate a Glock, I don't fit that mold either, don't love them or hate them. Maybe I'm bi?

[jocko]

Here is my take on mag disconnects. People that have them get used to not checking the chamber after they remove the magazine. Then when they handle a gun without the disconnect and remove the magazine they still don't check the chamber. It can lead to them pulling the trigger to take the pressure off the striker springs, or to clean the gun and thats when the problems start. :blah:
If you have time and presence of mind enough to release the magazine before the bad guy takes it away from you, you could have shot the SOB.

ur blaming the gun for one's own stupidity. Many guns today have the disconnect. It is an owners responsbility to know what he has or has not, . Certainly a gun with a disconnect is not gonna go bang if the mag is out and and idiot pulls the trigger. U can't do much for stupidity either.

Pullng the trigger on any gun JUST to be pullig the trigger is a cardinal sin of gun ownership.:blah::blah:

99% of us are not cops, so maybe their way of thinkin is different. A hell of alot of AD's happen in law enforcement to, due to stupidity.. We see it here on this forum alot. Many NEW GUN owners have no clue about a semi auto. Explain both sides of the disconnect to a woman gun owner and my bet is the very vast majority will opt to have the disconnet in THEIR gun. Just sayin

[Bawanna]

And many of the 1% cops are not gun guys either.

Doesn't matter, as you say pulling the mag and then pulling the trigger is just WRONG with or without the disconnect.

[wyntrout]

NEVER pull the trigger without a chamber check... AFTER removing the magazine! I don't understand the HAVING to pull the freaking trigger after removing the magazine!

I want MY guns to fire WITH or WITHOUT a magazine. $#i+ happens and if all I have is one round in the chamber... that's the one I want to use!

Wynn:)

[TheTman]

I had a Star Model 30 full size 9mm with a magazine disconnect and I HATED it. The gun will not function at all without a magazine in it, you can't even decock it. The dang thing about got me thrown out of a match one time, It was my turn to shoot, and I had to walk up for inspection of my weapon, with no mag in the gun, and open and lock the slide to show the range master it was unloaded. That cocked the hammer, and he wanted me to drop the hammer to get ready for my turn to shoot. The damn magazine disconnect kept me from being able to drop the hammer, which upset the range master, and all the time I was trying to explain the gun WILL NOT function in any way, without the mag inserted. Finally he calmed down a bit and I was able to make my point, and was allowed to insert the magazine, and drop the hammer then remove the magazine, and prepare to shoot. All the hassle and arguing had me pretty upset, and I ended up shooting horribly. That was my first and last time at that particular event. I deal with enough jerks on a daily basis, I don't need another one in my face lecturing me on safe gun handling and crap, and not being prepared, when they don't post a schedule or anything. I didn't even know I was up next to shoot until they called me to the firing line. They caught me off guard or I might have thought to take an empty mag to insert into the gun so I could lower the hammer. You'd think maybe they would give a new guy a break, I kept the muzzle pointed at the floor, finger off trigger, and still caught a ration of crap.
That was about the worst managed event I ever attended, and they can take it shove it as far as I am concerned. Everyone else knew each other, and I was the new guy, so I suppose my ability to safely handle a pistol was in question to everyone else. It was a bowling pin match, and I thought it might be fun. Instead it was embarrasing and a waste of my time and ammo.

[lamppa]

mag drop then pull the trigger is a laughing monemt on a new show that a friend just brought to my ateention.

The Wire

from HBO

its fu3king awesome show.

the first season is great. It shows life in the projects as white folk like us dont even have a clue about.

[wyntrout]

Wow! That would really sour things with me, too. It's too bad some guys think that they know everything and act like that.

Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

and ur telling me this was with a 45???? 1/8" dryway. , paper siding, no insulation. Yup its possable I guess..

Half inch drywall, vinyl siding, and lots of insulation. Of course your 9mm would have just bounced off the switch. :rolleyes:

[jocko]

indeed bounced off the switch in the neighbors home that the round penetrated from


semper volgare..

[O'Dell]

indeed bounced off the switch in the neighbors home that the round penetrated from


semper volgare..

Don't have neighbors- they got tired of me bouncing 45 rounds off their switches and moved away. :D