Enhanced Trigger

[acroreef]

Dear Folks,

Does anyone know if any Youtube video exists contrasting the new enhanced trigger on the PM9 vs. the old elite trigger? I can't seem to find anything. If nothing exists, might be a good idea if someone owns one of the new guns and has the time to do a short comparison video, for educational purposes and to dispel some of the falsehoods I have read in various forums, i.e. much lighter trigger pull, etc. This group always seems much more knowledgeable than most others "out there" when it comes to the Kahr pistols.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

[Tilos]

Call it what you want...described it until you are out of breath but nothing will deferentiate between what something is proposed to be and what it is except a trigger pull gauge.
Take your gun to a gun shop and measure YOUR gun, most have a pull gauge...then you'll know.
If it's the length of pull that is confusing it, that can be measured with a piece of paper and a pencil/pen, then you'll know:yo:

I see no way of comparing guns without measuring both/all, using the same methods.
That...or this thread will go on forever with people describing how their gun/their buddies gun/a gun at the gun show/gun shop "feels/felt".

[acroreef]

I was just curious about the new "enhanced" trigger as it compares to the standard trigger, mostly in terms of length of travel and reset. None of the local gun shops have any of the new PM 9's. And I have read that some folks who frequent this forum have the new gun. So just thought a Youtube comparison might be very illuminating.

Thanks again to all who respond.


Dave

[jocko]

Call it what you want...described it until you are out of breath but nothing will deferentiate between what something is proposed to be and what it is except a trigger pull gauge.
Take your gun to a gun shop and measure YOUR gun, most have a pull gauge...then you'll know.
If it's the length of pull that is confusing it, that can be measured with a piece of paper and a pencil/pen, then you'll know:yo:

I see no way of comparing guns without measuring both/all, using the same methods.
That...or this thread will go on forever with people describing how their gun/their buddies gun/a gun at the gun show/gun shop "feels/felt".

It is reallyhard to test these triggers out with many of the low cost gauges out there. I tend to go withg what kahr says and leave iut at that. they made it, why dispute it.

The bottom line is this:

The elite trigger has a 3/8" trigger trave
the enhance has a 2/8" trigger travel
the NYPD has a 4/8" trigger travel.

were talking about an 1/8" difference in any of tghese mentioned.

Other than that there is zero differencein trigger poundage of the elite or enhanced.

U will not be ableto upgrade a standard kahr to te enhanced trigger, as it will only come on guns with the external manual safety. Whenu getr down into the 2/8" travel before the bang thing happens, ur now entering glock territoryt and kahr is just not gonna put this on their guns with no manual external safety.

the difference between the elite and enhanced IMO is gonna be very very hard to tell any difference . YMMV.:Amflag2:

[acroreef]

Thank you Tilos and Jocko for your responses. Is the trigger reset on the enhanced trigger as long (all the way back) as the old standard trigger or has that improved also?

Dave

[jocko]

good question. I would assume if u have a shorter stroke that it would be a shorter reset.

[Tilos]

What does your gun measure...I assume nothing:D.

With the gun EMPTY, cock the action, lay the gun on a piece of paper, carefully push the trigger rearward with a pencil or pen touching the paper.
When the trigger breaks stop pushing, the length of the line is the length of trigger pull.
Do it several times and average the results.
From there moving the pen forward until the trigger resets would be the length of reset.
Now you know what YOUR gun is:tongue:
Get someone/anyone to do the same and compare results.

[Bawanna]

Way I read it, he doesn't have a gun to measure. Thinking on getting one and is in the research stage.

I may be reading it wrong, it's happened before. I'm so used to Jocko prose that english is almost a second language.

[acroreef]

You are correct Bawanna. I was hoping for a video that would visually depict the difference between the enhanced and standard trigger. I do not have anything to compare and all of the local gun stores are sold out of the new PM9. I guess the old "a picture is worth a thousand words" is at work here. I've read the descriptions written regarding the differences but have yet to see with my own eyes.

Again, thanks to all for your assistance.

Dave

[Ikeo74]

1/8" more or less isn't going to make a noticable difference. Get what you can find and shoot 200 rounds and don't worry about trigger reset. I have yet to hear someone say, "if only my trigger would have reset 1/8" sooner I would have hit what I was aiming at on the second shot". Who will be the first? ;)

[Bawanna]

Personally I would not suffer an external safety to get an 1/8" reduction in travel. Not worth it to me.

I have a NYPD trigger that everyone just thinks is the worst but I honestly have a very hard time trying to tell the difference between it and my others. First one I've encountered and its NOT bad at all. Smooth as silk.

The reset sucks, the reset sucks on all of them but that is the way it is. It's not the end of the world, it's like a revolver, just gotta let it go and start over. A person can actually do this pretty fast too.

[jocko]

Ikeo74 is right, what good is a picture gonna do. an 1/8" difference wouyld not even show up on any video for one to make an evualation even. If u can't shoot a kahr with the elite trigger in it, u probalbynot gonna do a bit better with an 1/8": less travel. These ain't target guns, these are defense gun, and the more reason to have the looooong but so smooth trigger...I wonder how many people bought wheel guns years ago and said Oh I wish the trigger travel was alot less,yadda yadda yad. Live with it or buy sumpin that please u.

[Tilos]

Well, if you don't have one, can't find one, what are the odds you will ever find 2 different ones at any one place to compare:confused:
I am willing to measure mine if that will help you in anyway, I don't recall what flavor/name the trigger was being called when I bought mine but I never paid much attention to the mechanics of the trigger as long as it goes bang.

Anything important I might have to shoot with my PM9 will be within bad breath range:D.

All I can offer is the length of pull and serial number of my gun and I know the last 2 digits are xx;).

[jimsea]

I have an enhanced trigger........it's called a 5# striker spring. That's all the enhancement I need. :-)

[jocko]

Tilos and Jimsea could not have said it better..

[jimsea]

Tilos and Jimsea could not have said it better..

Yeah......the outside of the 5# spring package from Wolff says "Competition Use Only"

I think it's the cheapest and easiest performance mod you can do.

[jocko]

That is a typical vendor CYA statement. I think glocks come factory with 5# striker in them.

[Tilos]

Yeah......the outside of the 5# spring package from Wolff says "Competition Use Only"

That's lawyer speak for "don't sue us if the gun does not go bang":D.

[sigtrovert]

fabulously smooth, crisp break right out of the box when purchased in early 2006. I'm an FFL and literally sold hundreds of PM9's and assortment of a few other models due to my experience and recommendation! Unfortunately, I had this little beauty stolen at a range just a few weeks ago and my heart was broken and upset that it is now on the street somewhere!

Was lucky enough for my distributor to get me a new PM with "ID" serial number with CT laser; but THE TRIGGER IS HORRIBLE! Heavy, very long takeup and hard break! If I can't get this remedied fast, I'll no longer be recommending them! Thinking it might just be aberration, I contacted a fellow in my car club who recently bought one and shot my earlier gun and loved it! Thought he would have said something; but met him Friday and his PM was about as bad as mine! So now I'm thinking maybe it isn't unusual?

Tomorrow, I'm going to see a few CM9's and curious to see if in order to facilitate logistics and production only 1 frame is used and "innards", including a trigger mechanism is same in PM9, as CM9? I certainly hope this isn't true; but suspect it might be? Will report on my findings.

Noticed "Elite Triggers' were mentioned and have any here installed on PM and what was result? This might be an option for this replacement personal gun: but wouldn't solve issue of my continued recommendation of PM if trigger on mine and that of friend is how all PM's are now!

Particularly as a new member, didn't want to stir up a hornet's nest within my first few posts: but need to get to the bottom of this as I want to continue to recommend and buy Kahr pistols? Since we're almost paying twice for a PM over a CM, would not expect to have same quality trigger!

Hope I haven't alienated anyone with this strong post?

[jocko]

fabulously smooth, crisp break right out of the box when purchased in early 2006. I'm an FFL and literally sold hundreds of PM9's and assortment of a few other models due to my experience and recommendation! Unfortunately, I had this little beauty stolen at a range just a few weeks ago and my heart was broken and upset that it is now on the street somewhere!

Was lucky enough for my distributor to get me a new PM with "ID" serial number with CT laser; but THE TRIGGER IS HORRIBLE! Heavy, very long takeup and hard break! If I can't get this remedied fast, I'll no longer be recommending them! Thinking it might just be aberration, I contacted a fellow in my car club who recently bought one and shot my earlier gun and loved it! Thought he would have said something; but met him Friday and his PM was about as bad as mine! So now I'm thinking maybe it isn't unusual?

Tomorrow, I'm going to see a few CM9's and curious to see if in order to facilitate logistics and production only 1 frame is used and "innards", including a trigger mechanism is same in PM9, as CM9? I certainly hope this isn't true; but suspect it might be? Will report on my findings.

Noticed "Elite Triggers' were mentioned and have any here installed on PM and what was result? This might be an option for this replacement personal gun: but wouldn't solve issue of my continued recommendation of PM if trigger on mine and that of friend is how all PM's are now!

Particularly as a new member, didn't want to stir up a hornet's nest within my first few posts: but need to get to the bottom of this as I want to continue to recommend and buy Kahr pistols? Since we're almost paying twice for a PM over a CM, would not expect to have same quality trigger!

Hope I haven't alienated anyone with this strong post?

pm'S HAVE THE ELITE TRIGGER, ALLKAHR CM'S HAVE THE ELITE TRIGGER.All;parts will interchange The PM enhanced trigger with an external safety is considered an elite trigger but it is a 1/8" less trigger travel

If you have a PM with a sh!tty trigger, it is still an elite trigger, but it could be evidently a sh!tty trigger that needs some smoothing out somewhere.

Alof of guns that are same model can feel different. I had a Smith M&P that was just pure crap trigger but once I had some work done on it by David Bowie it was perfect, but it was the same exact trigger. he added nuttin but smoothing out areas that he knew needed them..

[sigtrovert]

Definitely don't want any trigger connected to an external safety, think this is what is called "Mass compliant", possibly other states?

[sigtrovert]

2006 and 2009 and all were very close to one another in their light, smooth feel. Must admit with all the quality consistency, I stopped doing it, not realizing the drastic change that has happened! While I don't know for sure, I'm betting that CM now feels same way as PM9. If parts are same as Jocko said, then the PM is NOT getting the "finishing" that it formerly did and deserved as being nearly twice the price of CM? I will be checking CM's today and will post what I found!