Hoodwinked!

[TucsonMTB]

As a reloading newbie, I read hundreds of threads on what to buy and what works best.

Because of budget concerns, I ended up with Lee dies for my 30-06 hand loading, with the intended rifle being a Garand.

One of the things I bought that has worked out well is a digital powder scale. Way less frustrating than the balance beam that came with my Lee press kit and faster too.

Not being in a hurry, I weigh every charge, which led me to acquire a nice powder dribbler that I was rather proud of.

So . . . what's the beef?

Pretty minor, actually . . . tonight I decided to load a few cases with a different powder, IMR 4064 instead of IMR 4895. Too lazy to empty the dribbler, I decided to try "dribbling" by hand from the yellow plastic Lee powder scoop. Guess what! It is more accurate than using the twiddly thingee on the the powder dribbler! By hand and watching closely, I can drop individual grains of 4046 and wait for the scale to respond. Very cool!

Yeah, it is almost as accurate when using the dribbler gadget and it might be faster since all you have to do is twiddle the knob. But . . . I could have saved a few bucks had I not hoodwinked myself into thinking I "needed" the dribbler. Not sure if the 0.05 grain gain in powder charge accuracy will be noticeable at the range. Maybe if I were a better shooter . . . :o

Who would have thought!? :rolleyes:

[Ikeo74]

Use the "Powder Trickler"* (official name).
Why? Sooner or later you are going to dump too much using a scoop. That is when you have to start taking powder out and starting again.

Rule #1: Do Not leave powder in the trickler overnight, you will forget what is in it and the powder will collect moisture.

Rule#2: Empty the trickler into the powder measurer by using a funnel and dumping the powder into your powder measurer. Hold your finger over the dispensing tube, dump the bowl, then dump the tube. Make sure the trickler is completely empty.

Rule#3: Dump your powder measurer back into the original powder container.

Rule#4: Mark your powder measurer with a removable tag that has the ID of what powder is in the measurer. I use a 1/2" by 2" piece of paper, write the powder name and number, if it has one, on the paper and drop it inside the measurer. Always know what powder is in the measurer. Check the paper before loading.

Rule #5: Be Safe. Loading the powder is the most dangerous part of reloading. Errors, even small ones can cause lifetime injuries to both, you, and your equipment. :yo:

[muggsy]

Use the "Powder Trickler"* (official name).
Why? Sooner or later you are going to dump too much using a scoop. That is when you have to start taking powder out and starting again.

Rule #1: Do Not leave powder in the trickler overnight, you will forget what is in it and the powder will collect moisture.

Rule#2: Empty the trickler into the powder measurer by using a funnel and dumping the powder into your powder measurer. Hold your finger over the dispensing tube, dump the bowl, then dump the tube. Make sure the trickler is completely empty.

Rule#3: Dump your powder measurer back into the original powder container.

Rule#4: Mark your powder measurer with a removable tag that has the ID of what powder is in the measurer. I use a 1/2" by 2" piece of paper, write the powder name and number, if it has one, on the paper and drop it inside the measurer. Always know what powder is in the measurer. Check the paper before loading.

Rule #5: Be Safe. Loading the powder is the most dangerous part of reloading. Errors, even small ones can cause lifetime injuries to both, you, and your equipment. :yo:

Sound advice. I like your thinking. Ever vigilant. You can't be too, safe.

[downtownv]

+1 on safety. It's easy to take it for granite....

[mr surveyor]

I use a PACT digital scale for every load, whether rifle or handgun, and use a Lee dipper to start the measure, and the same dipper to trickle. Maybe one out of 20-30 rounds I'll pass my acceptable load and just drop it back into the powder bowl. No big deal. I charge up a batch in the loading block, visually check for consistency, then seat bullets and crimp.

I see absolutely nothing that could be considered poor practice or unsafe by this method. I have a buddy that's been reloading well over 40 years (probably close to 50 now) that has been using the same old antique silver dinner spoon for his "powder trickler" since he was a teenager.

What am I not understanding here?

[Bawanna]

Not misunderstanding anything.

How ever you end up with the proper charge matters little, the end result is the same.

I do subscribe to the emptying the trickler, and I have a system for the powder measure. I used to always empty the measure back into the original can but I mostly use just one powder anymore. I leave it in the measure and keep the top cover in place to help guard against moisture and more importantly in my case contaminants, mostly sawdust.
I keep the can for the powder I'm using on a shelf above the reloader. Only the one can. If I try something different I put the can for that powder in the same spot and put the other away.

I think consistency is really a key issue in reloading, proper habits, not drinking (too much) and not smoking, along with no nagging or distractions while doing it.

[TucsonMTB]

I guess there are at least two ways (probably more) to be sure someone is hand loading safely:

1. Make a bunch of rules and follow them carefully so that you don't have to think too much about it thus leaving as little to chance as possible. This approach is probably especially useful (important?) if you load a lot of rounds for several calibers and need to use more than one powder, as is appropriate to each type of cartridge.

2. Focus on what you are doing rather than rely on the equipment. Which probably works well enough for people like me who only load one caliber, usually only only use one powder, and weigh each charge . . . slowly like an old guy who is not setting any production records. That would be me. ;)

Even though my routine does not vary much, I still keep a large piece of paper prominently in view with the charge weight and bullet choice of the moment in large, friendly characters. Short term memory . . . what is that? :o

Oh, and quite some time ago, I made a tight fitting cap for the top of my trickler and another for the end of the delivery tube so that I don't have to dump it out after every session where I usually load about two dozen rounds. For me, this has saved time and has helped avoid spilling powder during emptying and refilling cycles. Did I mention I am naturally clumsy? :o

Even with only one powder in use, everything is labeled, including the small, heavy container with a tight fitting, screw-on lid from which I usually dip powder. See the clumsy comment above. ;)

So, thanks for everyone's concerns and comments. It is cool that we provoked so much discussion . . . but it still amazes me is how accurately one can dibble (trickle) a charge by hand, especially when compared to dribbling with a proper trickler that costs and weighs as much as a pound of powder.

Not having chosen my ancestors with much wisdom, I probably can't justify a nice silver spoon, like Surv's friend. Fortunately, Lee sent me a nice yellow plastic dipper with my cost effective (cheap) die set. And, I am probably going to use it more often now. :D

[mr surveyor]

I paid extra and got the whole 15 unit set of dippers ... I think it was 15. But, I am a big spender.

Old Mack has been using that old bent spoon forever, and loaded so many thousands of rifle rounds, trickling just about every one, that he says he can pick up the necessary "top off" volume with the spoon to within a tenth grain every time. This guy has loaded for every "popular caliber", and half the wildcat calibers over the years, and more than adequately feeds his family;)

[Bawanna]

I paid extra and got the whole 15 unit set of dippers ... I think it was 15. But, I am a big spender.

Old Mack has been using that old bent spoon forever, and loaded so many thousands of rifle rounds, trickling just about every one, that he says he can pick up the necessary "top off" volume with the spoon to within a tenth grain every time. This guy has loaded for every "popular caliber", and half the wildcat calibers over the years, and more than adequately feeds his family;)

With the same spoon? Just wonderin.

[mr surveyor]

Oh, another point I'd like to make concerning powder tricklers.....

If you're using a trickler to hit your charge weight in a powder pan, then you're obviously depending entirely of the scale to monitor the charge weight. In that case, having an accurate scale, and a dipper - don't matter if it's a Lee dipper or a home brew dipper made from a spent brass cut to size - works just as efficiently (both in measure needs and speed). You're still charging one case at a time from the scale pan.

Am I missing something again?

[mr surveyor]

With the same spoon? Just wonderin.

Mack told me he's been using that same spoon for the same powder purpose since he started reloading as a "yute"

[Salty]

Ikeo74 - I must have watched you reload sometime as I have the same rules. I also keep close track of my primer types. I use a Lyman II electronic scale and it usually gets within + or - .1 gr. depending on the powder and load size. I use a Lee dipper as a pre-fill trickler to fill the pan on the scale before I push the button on the scale. It cuts the electronic scale time by at least 50%. Bawanna one man's sawdust is another person's case filler.

[TucsonMTB]

Oh, another point I'd like to make concerning powder tricklers.....

If you're using a trickler to hit your charge weight in a powder pan, then you're obviously depending entirely of the scale to monitor the charge weight. In that case, having an accurate scale, and a dipper - don't matter if it's a Lee dipper or a home brew dipper made from a spent brass cut to size - works just as efficiently (both in measure needs and speed). You're still charging one case at a time from the scale pan.

Am I missing something again?
You hit the nail right on the head, sir! http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

[Tilos]

An empty case is my dribbler, and always a different caliber case than what I'm loading:D

[TucsonMTB]

An empty case is my dribbler, and always a different caliber case than what I'm loading :D
Clever! I may give that a try as well. Thanks! :)

[Bawanna]

Mack told me he's been using that same spoon for the same powder purpose since he started reloading as a "yute"

I wondered if he used the spoon for a dipper then wiped it off to feed his family.

Maybe I'm the one missing something here.

[mr surveyor]

just for the record..... powder measures are as old as metallic cartridges. A simple powder measure can be made similar to the Lee "scoops" from spent brass. It's old as the hills. With current powders and their inconsistent weight to volume ratio, you still have to weigh a "drop" or three to determine your scoop weight for each lot of powder you may be using. Light to moderate loads normally aren't an issue with a calibrated "scoop", but if you're shooting for near/max loads the dipper ain't recommended.

You can take a piece of 9mm brass (with old primer in place of course), dip and screed off a full case of powder and drop on your scale. If it exceeds the weight of powder you need for say a .38 spl load, then file the brass down a bit at a time until you hit your desired powder weight on the scale. I had an old time loader that died several years ago that made all his "dippers" that way and silver soldered little handles on them and kept them seperated by powder/charge weight. You can use most any brass cut to need, depending on the caliber/charge weight, right up to large caliber rifles. My long gone old friend loaded a many fine .30-06 rounds with his home made "dipper" and a rusty old single stage press. The few I've made just got a piece of large paper clip wire twisted around the base for a handle. I've used these quite a bit for powders that aren't listed in the Lee Scoop equivalent charts, but again for mid to low range loads.

I still load a lot of .38 and low pressure .357 rounds (and some .44) straight out of a dipper into brass sitting in the loading block, but these are just range fodder. All of my target and "useful" rounds are individually weighed.

surv

[Ikeo74]

just for the record..... powder measures are as old as metallic cartridges. A simple powder measure can be made similar to the Lee "scoops" from spent brass. It's old as the hills. With current powders and their inconsistent weight to volume ratio, you still have to weigh a "drop" or three to determine your scoop weight for each lot of powder you may be using. Light to moderate loads normally aren't an issue with a calibrated "scoop", but if you're shooting for near/max loads the dipper ain't recommended.

You can take a piece of 9mm brass (with old primer in place of course), dip and screed off a full case of powder and drop on your scale. If it exceeds the weight of powder you need for say a .38 spl load, then file the brass down a bit at a time until you hit your desired powder weight on the scale. I had an old time loader that died several years ago that made all his "dippers" that way and silver soldered little handles on them and kept them seperated by powder/charge weight. You can use most any brass cut to need, depending on the caliber/charge weight, right up to large caliber rifles. My long gone old friend loaded a many fine .30-06 rounds with his home made "dipper" and a rusty old single stage press. The few I've made just got a piece of large paper clip wire twisted around the base for a handle. I've used these quite a bit for powders that aren't listed in the Lee Scoop equivalent charts, but again for mid to low range loads.

I still load a lot of .38 and low pressure .357 rounds (and some .44) straight out of a dipper into brass sitting in the loading block, but these are just range fodder. All of my target and "useful" rounds are individually weighed.

surv
I hear the Horn from a Bull or a Buffalo works great. Just cut off the tip and fill it with powder. Then turn it upside down over the barrel of your gun before inserting the lead ball. Just count to 3 when pouring the powder should be about the right charge for most loads. :Amflag2:

[JFootin]

I hear the Horn from a Bull or a Buffalo works great. Just cut off the tip and fill it with powder. Then turn it upside down over the barrel of your gun before inserting the lead ball. Just count to 3 when pouring the powder should be about the right charge for most loads. :Amflag2:

Is your real name Fred Flintstone? LOL! :) Of course, someone would want to know what diameter to make the hole down to the .0001", but the simpler solution would be to adjust the pour time to the horn. You know, instead of saying "One Mississippi, two Mississippi...," you'd say "One Arkansas, two Arkansas..." to shorten it or "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" to lengthen it! :rolleyes:

[mr surveyor]

I think it's funny that a whole lot of folks get wrapped up in techno stuff and don't understand that other "non-technical" methods work just as well... or in many cases more efficiently.

In the length of my professional career we have "evolved" from the transit and tape (surveyor's "chain") tools, to theodolite and chain tools, to theodolite and edmi (electronic distance measuring instrument), to "total stations" (combined electronic theodolite / edmi in single unit), to various iterations of high precision gps equipment, and high data volume laser scanners. For basic boundary surveys, using proper technique, it's still possible to achieve the same precision with the old tools. I wouldn't dare say the old tools and measurement procedures are better than the new tools, otherwise I wouldn't always be in debt buying the state-of-the-art equipment, but in my nearly 40 years accociated with the surveying profession I've learned to not mock the tools and methods previously used. Even the old compass and link chain surveys are "re-traceable", although they were generally crude compared to the more modern surveys that beacme the norm in most areas by the 1930's.

When you consider that a powder dispenser drops powder from a cavity set to hold a "volume" of powder .... regulated by measuring the setting with a calibrated scale in the first place, you're still dropping nothing more than a volumetric measure of powder. If you're using a trickler to precisely top off the load .... again as measured directly on the scale, you are depending entirely on that scale to tell you when you've hit the mark. So, in my unsolicited and uneducated opinion, I see no difference in the powder delivery method to get that first drop of powder into the scale pan. Even a powder horn would suffice ;)


surv

[certified106]

Reading all of this reloading advice is going to cause me to get a reloader...... darn all of you! This forum wreaks havoc on a budget. Lol

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[mr surveyor]

Reading all of this reloading advice is going to cause me to get a reloader...... darn all of you! This forum wreaks havoc on a budget. Lol

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2



even if you're lucky enough to find a press that you want, finding the dies you want is an even greater challenge. Then components are almost as rare as winning the lottery right now.

Still... no time like the present to start picking up what you can:)