Low light practice

[DeeDubya]

I would like to practice a night time home invasion scenario with low light conditions. I figure if I did confront an intruder in my home it would be dark. I have the advantage of knowing my way around the house but still, acquiring a good sight picture won't happen. Even with tritium's it's difficult to line up the dots quickly. So I think some realistic "point and shoot" practice could be beneficial. The distance would probably be 20' or less. My nightstand gun is always a double action at least 9mm but I prefer 40. No shotguns or rifles for me. They're too hard to swing and could get you in trouble if you bang it against a door or if someone grabbed the barrel. Now I just need to figure out where I can shoot at night. Maybe the local indoor range would turn out the lights while me and some buddies fired a few down range. Maybe not.

[getsome]

Very good idea...IMHO it's best to practice in your house because thats where you will be if there's a break in and it's pitch dark at 3:00 am and you already have a plan in mind of what you will do and you know your way around everywhere in the dark... (or so you think).....

My son and I started this game a while back and it's very good training and lots of fun...What we did was to buy a couple of decent Airsoft pistols, his is a 1911 and mine is a S&W M&P clone...My real M&P is under my bed in a lock box and so is his so we start with the Airsoft guns in the locked box...We do it in the dark and do everything we can to make the house as dark as possible for the game....

The game changes with every round but we each take turns setting up 4 or 5 targets all through the house in areas where a BG might hide if he thought he had been discovered...We time each other and critique each shoot for mistakes like did either of us expose ourselves to return fire or make a noise that would give away our position...

The shooter starts in their bedroom with lights out like you would be if asleep while the other sets up the course so the shooter has no idea where the targets are going to be...at the signal the shooter gets up, unlocks the box and readies the pistol using only a small flashlight...We take turns clearing the house and taking out all the targets until the threat is gone...

The reason I said you think you know your house is that in pitch dark you sometimes find things like a half opened bathroom door or a cabinet door that was left open on purpose, things like that you aren't used to or ready for but keeps you on your toes....It also helps with being able to feel for things like doorways or furnature to use for cover in total darkness, you will learn the layout of your house by counting steps and by feel, very different than in the daylight....I found out that even a split second blip with the flashlight really hurts your night vision so I keep my sighting eye closed when searching for targets...

We have a blast trying to out do each other and keep score on amount of time to clear and number of hits on each target...It's great fun and realistic inexpensive real world training....Try it!!!

[Bawanna]

Excellent plan Getsome but I'd suggest inviting a 3rd party to get involved so you can introduce the fact that both you and your son might be clearing the house. Now you have to identify ally or foe.

If you really wanted to change it up, have your wife somehow swap your guns for the airsoft and then without prior knowledge alert you and / or your son that there's a possible intruder. I'd say let out a blood curdling scream but that would blow the realism as a BG would be making a hasty exit and shooting him probably wouldn't apply as long as he's retreating.

Add the out of a deep sleep, gallons of adrenaline rush, get r dun to the scenario.

I've thought of the father son thing before as mine is on the opposite end of the house, he can hear well, I can't hear at all, but my wife can hear grass grow. Now son # 2 also has a real gun (45 of course) and have to consider him in the mix as well.
Wife has her revolver but it's usually in her purse (much to my dismay) and not in our room.

[Barth]

At one time I lived in a large four bedroom three bath house with my wife and three small children.
Thought I heard a possible breakin at the far end of the house in the middle of the night.
I jumped out of bed and grabbed my pistol grip rifle from storage.
Hearing the bolt close on the rifle my 85 lbs female doberman Nikki instinctively jumped to her feet and ran to my side.
In total darkness, with Nikki at my side, we silently and quickly cleared the house.

Fortunately no one was there.
Nikki and I weren't in the mood to ask questions...

[DeeDubya]

Getsome,
I'll say that's about as close to the real thing as you can get. Only the muzzle blasts (hopefully there would only be one) would make things a little more difficult. Realistically after the first shot you'll be relying on your sight and not your hearing. I would never use a flashlight in my own home. A light beam bouncing off the ceiling or wall will light up the whole room allowing an intruder to see your every move.

So, I'll try the airsoft training. I have an HK USP that shoots surprisingly accurate. Although it is not the same as my defense gun it would work just fine. Maybe I can turn down the pressure just a little because it shoots hard and I don't need dents in the sheetrock. The IPSC cardboard targets would work well. You could staple them to a 1 x 2, make a base and stand them upright.

[getsome]

I have found Airsoft practice to be a fun, useful tool and like an IDPA event it makes you have to think about what you are doing and how you move about to shoot and how to do it more effectively and efficiently....I did find that it really helped with my point shooting ability and being able to shoot while moving....Our Airsoft pistols don't have night sights like our real pistols so point shooting is about all you can do with an occasional shot with a light on the target...

Both our Airsoft pistols are pretty accurate but not so powerful as to damage sheetrock or break glass but some of the more powerful pistols might so use caution and wear shooting glasses...(I do hang a blanket over my flat screen TV just in case)...We use cardboard boxes with towels inside and with targets taped over the open end and it works well to stop the pellets and lets you see where the shots went...

We once did a real IDPA stage where it was lights out and that was very interesting...They had you start siting at a desk, pistol holstered and flashlight in the pencil drawer...At the go signal the lights went out to simulate a BG turning off the breaker box and you had to find the flashlight, get it on before unholstering and getting the pistol on target....That was FUN but difficult and the muzzel blast really does mess up your eyesight...

I also found out it's very difficult to hold a light while trying to change magazines and if you will add a wrist strap to the light to go over your hand it makes a world of difference....These are the kind of things that real world practice like IDPA and Airsoft drills teach you and it's way better to learn what doesn't work before the real deal happens and you find out the hard way....

[bob98366]

Related topic is to harden your home so that the BG has to make noise and take more time to enter, giving you more time to wake up and prepare. Things like dowels in window/sliding door tracks, door jams for swinging doors (adjustable bar that fits diagonally between the door knob and the floor), longer door hinge and dead bolt screws, security system set, a dog, etc. Have a charged cell phone at your bed for 911 call.

[Barth]

Related topic is to harden your home so that the BG has to make noise and take more time to enter, giving you more time to wake up and prepare. Things like dowels in window/sliding door tracks, door jams for swinging doors (adjustable bar that fits diagonally between the door knob and the floor), longer door hinge and dead bolt screws, security system set, a dog, etc. Have a charged cell phone at your bed for 911 call.

Planning ahead is good.
Getting caught surprised and unprepared is not.

Having a family exit strategy or safe room is nice too.
My biggest fear was having a very young family spread about the house.
And how to deal with an intruder in that situation.

Having strategic motion detector lights can be nice too.

[DeeDubya]

Related topic is to harden your home so that the BG has to make noise and take more time to enter, giving you more time to wake up and prepare. Things like dowels in window/sliding door tracks, door jams for swinging doors (adjustable bar that fits diagonally between the door knob and the floor), longer door hinge and dead bolt screws, security system set, a dog, etc. Have a charged cell phone at your bed for 911 call.

I agree. Physical security is very important. Also, a good watchdog is one of the best. Good lighting. Watchful neighbors. We all know about these things, they just don't always happen. I am a security service contractor (34 years) and we do electronic security, cctv, etc. We've seen a lot of breakin's and most residential intrusions occur during the day. But, you never know when some meth-soaked jerk might choose your house at 2:00 in the morning.

[Longitude Zero]

Several vendors have "low light" goggles. You will find out quickly why professionals will tell you not to clear a house unless you are properly trained. It is very difficult to do correctly and in your average 2400 sq ft house it can take a long time for a two man team to do it properly.

Your best bet is to hunker down and wait for the bad guys to come to you. That is dependent upon how your house is laid out and your sleeping arrangements and who is home and time of day.

If you can gather everybody in one room and secure the door it is very unwise to attempt to search your house as the advantage ALWAYS favors the deffender and NOT the searcher, even in your own home.

Also physical security STARTS in the outer perimeter and goes all the way inside. The goal is they never make it into the house before they change their minds and leave.

[muggsy]

Anyone who goes looking for trouble is sure to find it. Anyone who stumbles around in the dark looking for an intruder is on a fools errand. You call 911 and barricade yourself in your bedroom and allow the fool to come to you. Muggsy rules for survival 101.

[ltxi]

My nightstand gun is a 3" M13 Smith. Has been since forever. No ns and it's a point shoot arm. So are my 1911's but I prefer not to use s/a autos as first thing to hand upon waking up at home. Whatever, anything I have to really pay attention to aiming would not be the correct gun for me under "huh/what" circumstances. OP gots head on straight.

[Planedude]

My Home security issue has proven to be in constant transition for 25yrs. My house has three doorway entry points. My kids bedrooms were at the front of the house with my youngest childs bedroom is at the far end of the house from my room.
Clearing the house with the kids home was just a fact of life. I had a short Mossy 20gage with pistol grip for that task.
Later my Daughter graduated high school and went on to college and my youngest moved to the bigger bedroom directly across from mine. He was also a heck of a shot with his .22 or his high dollor paintball gun. Yeah it's only paint but 60 or 70 rounds to the face and head in 2.5 seconds would have changed a BG intent quick.
So, no need to clear the whole house. The Son was taught to lock-up and hunker down with his choice of arms and I have a great spot from my room to cover that door and not be anyones target. Back in those days I kept a full size 1911 handy and a pretty good size Maglite.
But now the kids have grown and moved on, so its the barricade up in the Master bedroom an you'll have to pity the fool that would try and rush me there. In my house there is but one place to stand and try and fight with me down the short hallway. Beings that it's my house, I know where they have to be... and where the studs in the wall are between us. Nothing in the front of my house is worth stealing and none of it is worth killing even the dumbest crook for. But a BG deciding to come back to where we are dug in at, well that would make everything different...
I now keep a .38 J frame as the house gun, with a tachlite and a Safariland speedloader all handy like. The .38 works for me as in the Texas summer the most likely BG I'll come across is Mr. Copperhead or Mr. Rattler. Two of the five in the gun all summer long is CCI ratshot but worry not as I'm pretty good with the spring driven speed loaders. The old 1911 is too sentamental for me to lose (since I have alot of other choices) and I have never been impressed me with the ratshot loads in .45acp.
Those that live in the country will have different needs and make different choices.
Those that live tight in the city will have different needs and make different choices.
And those living in an apartment will have different needs and make different choices.
Just remember this, todays tactical situation for home defence will evolve. You need to be aware of when those changes must be made and train for the new.

Which is not all bad, as it gives you a reason to buy more firearms... just to stay current you know.
Peace out.

[DeeDubya]

Anyone who goes looking for trouble is sure to find it. Anyone who stumbles around in the dark looking for an intruder is on a fools errand. You call 911 and barricade yourself in your bedroom and allow the fool to come to you. Muggsy rules for survival 101.

We all have our preferences, but I'm way too claustrophobic to barricade myself in any room and feel trapped. Besides, my bedroom door doesn't make much of a barricade. I don't think I would stumble through my own house. I'm pretty darn sneaky barefoot.

[Longitude Zero]

I don't think I would stumble through my own house. I'm pretty darn sneaky barefoot.

Let me in your house at night and you will be stumbling around in the hallway to your bedroom. Movement of a table a couple of inches is all I need. Also girls jacks, a handful of peanuts, marbles anything that makes noise or hurts bare feet is all I need as a burglar to alert me to a foolhardy homeowner. As an LEO I have seen all this and very much more.

I am almost 6 feet tall and in the dark/low light you will be amazed how many places your home affords me cover/concealment. Never forget that any ontruder who enters a home at night that has a high probability of being occupied, stealing property is not really the mission. Rape and worse is the mission for the majority of intruders who enter an occupied home.

Most residential burglaries occur in daylight hours because people are at work. A nightime intruder is after something else entirely and most have already decided that any resistance will be met with murderous fury.

[DeeDubya]

Let me in your house at night and you will be stumbling around in the hallway to your bedroom. Movement of a table a couple of inches is all I need. Also girls jacks, a handful of peanuts, marbles anything that makes noise or hurts bare feet is all I need as a burglar to alert me to a foolhardy homeowner. As an LEO I have seen all this and very much more.

I am almost 6 feet tall and in the dark/low light you will be amazed how many places your home affords me cover/concealment. Never forget that any ontruder who enters a home at night that has a high probability of being occupied, stealing property is not really the mission. Rape and worse is the mission for the majority of intruders who enter an occupied home.

Most residential burglaries occur in daylight hours because people are at work. A nightime intruder is after something else entirely and most have already decided that any resistance will be met with murderous fury.

I hear you. An armed intruder is tough to deal with. Let me proudly remind all LEO's that San Marcos (Texas State University) is home to the ALERRT Center. This is an amazing facility with great people. Please check them out.

http://alerrt.org/

http://www.txstate.edu/news/news_releases/news_archive/2007/08/alerrtfunding081507.html

[muggsy]

We all have our preferences, but I'm way too claustrophobic to barricade myself in any room and feel trapped. Besides, my bedroom door doesn't make much of a barricade. I don't think I would stumble through my own house. I'm pretty darn sneaky barefoot.

DW this is still a free country and you are free to proceed as you wish, but I'm nearing my 67th year on this planet and I didn't get that old by being stupid. There are old gunners and there are bold gunners, but there are very few old bold gunners. Every combat training school will tell you exactly what LZ and I have told you, but they will charge you an arm and a leg for the same information. Shoot from cover. Let the perp come to you.

[DeeDubya]

DW this is still a free country and you are free to proceed as you wish, but I'm nearing my 67th year on this planet and I didn't get that old by being stupid. There are old gunners and there are bold gunners, but there are very few old bold gunners. Every combat training school will tell you exactly what LZ and I have told you, but they will charge you an arm and a leg for the same information. Shoot from cover. Let the perp come to you.

I always accept advise from those who are older with more experience. I learned that a long time ago. 64 years ago to be exact.:D

[Bawanna]

Dang you guys were brought up in the black powder days. You guys happen to know Butch Cassidy or Billy the Kid or any of the modern day gunslingers.

[Tinman507]

Got a new magazine today for my EDC

http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com/pr_horns/horn_oc_std02.gif

[getsome]

What I posted yesterday about clearing the house with Airsoft guns is good practice and a fun game but only that...If I hear someone in the house at 3am after determining that it's not a family member digging in the fridge and is a real BG threat I agree the best thing to do is hole up the best you can with a cell phone calling 911 and with a firearm in your hand...

Most burglars that want your TV and other stuff they can make a quick buck off of come during the day when nobody is home, they're A-holes alright but not crazy A-holes...

The guy that breaks in an occupied house at 3am most likely just smoked his last bowl of crack and now is out of dope and desperate for money to buy more and he WILL kill everybody in the house to get it....He is definitely a job for the Police....

[wyntrout]

Dang! When you start talking powder horns... you have to think about magazines as the place where they used to STORE powder horns!

Wynn:)

[DeeDubya]

Dang you guys were brought up in the black powder days. You guys happen to know Butch Cassidy or Billy the Kid or any of the modern day gunslingers.

No, but I do remember Thell Reed from back in his competition days! Although not a gunfighter he was fast with a 1911. Maybe still.

[muggsy]

Dang you guys were brought up in the black powder days. You guys happen to know Butch Cassidy or Billy the Kid or any of the modern day gunslingers.

The only modern day gunslinger that I know of is you, Bawanna. I know a lot of modern day bullslingers though. :)