Bowed frame on new PM9

[QuercusMax]

I just got around to prepping my new PM9, and I am not happy! :mad: The front part of the polymer frame is noticeably bowed out on each side just above the front end of the trigger guard, right over the "Kahr Arms" legend.

And besides the warping, there were quite a few polymer shavings and untrimmed polymer "threads" on the inside of the frame.

Polymer, indeed! This is my first plastic Kahr, and although I don't know how it shoots yet, it pales in comparison to my all-metal MK9 in construction quality.

Some poor-quality photos are attached. I don't know how this escaped my attention when I inspected it upon receipt - I guess I was in a hurry. Maybe just like Kahr was, when they were rushing to make this one, while trying to satisfy recent demand. (just speculation)

Since the PM9 is brand new, I plan to send it back to Kahr for correction. What a bother!

But before I send it back, any comments from the Forum?

[wyntrout]

We've had many threads posted on this... kind of like the chip in the rail deal. It's deemed normal. This is your first polymer Kahr, so maybe you haven't paid attention to those posts or seen one up close?

Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

Completely normal. I'd just take an exacto knife and maybe some fine sandpaper and clean up the little strands of tupperware that stray. They really don't do anything anyhow. The tupperware is just a handle, the slide rides on the metal inserts in the frame.

You can certainly send pictures to Kahr but I suspect they are gonna say no issue.

I agree compared to the steel Kahrs the tupperware ones just don't look all that hot but they work regardless.

[wyntrout]

Here's some side by side photos of my 9mm's:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6903&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1353060086

Dang! I keep forgetting to take a file and put a nick in the P9 rail so it will be like the others!

Wynn:D

[jocko]

the bow is there by design, the slivers, just take some fine 600+ grit paper and sand it a tad or better yet, shoot the gun and after a few hundred rounds those slivers will be gone. Thge polymer rails serve no purose other than helping one guide the slide on the frame. The slide doesw not ride on the polymer rails at all once on thegun and if there is any highy spots on the polymer rails that might even be touching th slide as it cycles, just rounds dow range will smooth those out perfectly.

Ur wasting ur time calling kahr for like the members stated IT IS NORMAL.

[jimsea]

They are designed that way.

[deadeye]

My CM9 is the same. Couldn't ask for a better shooting gun. The guide rails are imbedded in the polymer. I did everything I could find in the "stickies" and have been shooting it ever since. Having never owned a plastic gun before I was also concerned. Now I just smile a lot!!!

[QuercusMax]

Thanks to everyone who commented on my original post. I appreciate the responses.

Sounds like this bowing is to be expected, and won't affect performance. But I sure don't like the looks of it, and I find it really hard to believe that Kahr really intended it to look like that.

In my 1.5 years on KahrTalk, I don't recall seeing any posts on this, but then again I don't read every post, so I probably missed any other discussions about this.

So it looks like I will finish prepping it and then take it out for "a ride" instead of sending it back to Kahr. I knew there was a reason for asking before acting.

I'm still disappointed though. It's a bit like buying a new car and finding that the doors don't align perfectly, even though "the car drives OK." Few people would be satisfied with that.

[jocko]

It definitely is not a flew in ur gun or any one's gun. ur making mor eout of it than what is there IMO. I alwa6s felt that was made that way to keep ones fingers on the grip area ad not accidently be touchig the slide part and hinder functioning. Car door shpould alight correctly, so we are taking apples and oranges here.

This has been discussed many many timne son this forum with many many photos from owners, not much different than the little chip out of the front rails being asked about many many times.

[QuercusMax]

I've thought about this for a few days now since my original post.

Yes, I finally found that the issue has been discussed before. The definitive thread seems to be this one (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5490), from 2009. So it's an old problem.

But I still can't find any actual explanation for why a warped or bulged frame should be consider normal and thus acceptable.

Some have speculated that this warpage is deliberate to "keep one's hand from accidentally gripping the slide." But if that were true, the metal-framed Kahrs would have the same bulge, so that is not the reason.

Many people have dismissed this complaint, saying that "they all come that way" and it's just a cosmetic issue. Maybe they do, but that means to me that in 4+ years of production, Kahr still hasn't figured out how to make the plastic parts of their products line up properly.

I have polymer pistols made by FNH and Heckler & Koch, and their polymer parts all line up perfectly. So it can be done.

This bulging just looks ugly. You can dismiss this as yet another guy carping about a cosmetic issue, but who here doesn't care what their guns look like??? Those who are into cars or bikes sure care what their toys look like, and care a lot. You can't tell me that a misshapen part on one of those would be considered "normal."

So unless someone can offer an actual explanation, this looks like an ongoing quality issue with Kahr polymer parts, and thus I need to contact Kahr. If nobody speaks up, nothing changes.

[ParabellumJ]

I'm not sure there is anything to contact Kahr about, but if you do I would like to hear their answer. To my knowledge all of the polymer Kahr frames are shaped this way, it is not warped, it is how they designed the gun. As for why, I couldn't tell you. My PM9 is like that and it has been an outstanding gun. The shavings are also there on all new Kahr polymers. I would agree they could do a better job finishing this aspect, but as others have said, it nothing a little sandpaper or rounds down range wont cure. I care as much as anyone what my guns look like, I am OCD in this regard. But is this firearm a tool or a trophy? My PM9 is a tool, and therefore my main concern is its performance. I don't feel the shape of the frame detracts from the looks of it one bit. It has never stopped me from relying on it to protect my life, nor has it prevented me from recommending it to friends as an outstanding lightweight carry option. YMMV

[crazymailman]

I agree with ParabellumJ that the bow is a design and not a flaw. Also, I don't have a definitive answer, but a theory. The slides on the P and K series are, from what I can tell, the same, and the polymer frames were designed to fit an existing slide. Since the front rails are molded into the polymer, there needs to be enough plastic to secure them, thus the bulge. That may be completely wrong, but it's my theory, and I'll stick to it until someone who knows tells me why it's really there.

[LorenzoB]

The polymer bulges out on both sides right near where my pencil is pointing in the photos below to accommodate the slide. I too thought this was odd at first glance, but saw it as part of the design upon closer inspection. I suppose if yours bulges out way more on one side then it could be an issue, or it could just be an eyesore (at least that is what the doctor usually says). :D
But, if your frame is symmetrical, then you are good to go.

8155

[MikeG]

Somewhere there is an engineer with the answer you seek. It's not me, but I would guess it might have something to do with the strength if a sphere vs. the strength of a box and trying to prevent cracks with the least amount of material possible in these small guns. Obviously they *could* have shaped the polymer more "traditionally" if they had wanted to. It's just different, not ugly.

Sorry, three week old thread but i just wanted to chime in

[Sage]

That looks just like mine and I've never had a problem.

[jocko]

ITS IS THERE BY DESIGN. NEED I REPEAT: IT IS THERE BY DESIGN. ONE MORE TIME; IT IS THERE BY DESIGN,

The answer to most of the questions is:

it is there by design.

SHOOT THE FKKER LIKE U STOLE it.

[jocko]

I agree with ParabellumJ that the bow is a design and not a flaw. Also, I don't have a definitive answer, but a theory. The slides on the P and K series are, from what I can tell, the same, and the polymer frames were designed to fit an existing slide. Since the front rails are molded into the polymer, there needs to be enough plastic to secure them, thus the bulge. That may be completely wrong, but it's my theory, and I'll stick to it until someone who knows tells me why it's really there.

I think that buldge is there by design but also for a shooter who might with his finners be grab bing the front of the frame to shoot, to actualy keep those finners away from the operation of the cycling of the slide when the bang thing happens.:Amflag2:

[Tinman507]

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o542/tinman507/jockospellchecker.jpg

[Sage]

ITS IS THERE BY DESIGN. NEED I REPEAT: IT IS THERE BY DESIGN. ONE MORE TIME; IT IS THERE BY DESIGN,

The answer to most of the questions is:

it is there by design.

SHOOT THE FKKER LIKE U STOLE it.


Are you trying to say it's there by design????

[jocko]

I think so, just sayin

[muggsy]

If you find that gun flawed and can't stand the sight of it, I'd be more than willing to give you half of what you paid for it and take it off your hands. It's a carry gun, Jasper and a damn good one. I find it aesthetically pleasing right down to that ugly magazine that sticks out of the butt. Next you'll be telling us that it won't shoot one inch groups at 50 yards. There's just no pleasing some people. Shoot the Fokker like you stole it and quit yer b!tchin. :)

[Bawanna]

Time for your meds guys, and then maybe a little nap.

[skiflydive]

If you find that gun flawed and can't stand the sight of it, I'd be more than willing to give you half of what you paid for it and take it off your hands. It's a carry gun, Jasper and a damn good one. I find it aesthetically pleasing right down to that ugly magazine that sticks out of the butt. Next you'll be telling us that it won't shoot one inch groups at 50 yards. There's just no pleasing some people. Shoot the Fokker like you stole it and quit yer b!tchin. :)

+1 but I'll give you 60%.

You keep calling it a "problem" or a "design flaw." It isn't, but if you can't get over it then put it up for sale on this forum. It'll sell really fast because EVERYONE on here knows it isn't a problem or a flaw.

[Bawanna]

Several people here have told me I am a problem and have flaws. I've found no evidence to back this up but thought I'd throw it out there.

[jocko]

I would never say that about u. colonel. I would go to the matt for u colonel. Ol jocko is just that way--dummer than a post,but true to the end..

[jqunac]

I am glad I saw this thread. Have a new PM9 arriving in a day or two and I hate surprises. As long as it is expected and not out of the ordinary I'm ok wid it.

Let me add my WAG to the discussion, maybe the rails need a bit more support on the exterior side and this design allows that support without adding undue girth where it might not be needed. Sounded better in my head, anyway I'm glad this is normal I'm not.

[jocko]

while ur waiting read the kahr tech section. two great sticy's there.

Kahr lube chart


propper prepping of ur kahr. some dandy tips to check out nd prepare ur kahr for that first good shoot. U ordered the best of the best IMO.

[jqunac]

Thanks jocko I've been lurking here awhile and skimmed the stickies. I'll reread and give it all the TLC I can muster.

[RRP]

Jocko is assigning homework to our new friends.

[Dino]

I would not find this accepetable, I own a couple polymar small carry pistols. Non of them have this problem. This deffinately looks to be a flaw. Non of my M&P poly pistols have this problem after seveal hundred rounds fired through them. I do not even get the shaveings with them. I love my Kahr MK40, real nice shooter. But with the advent of smaller, lighter pistols the quality has somewhat gone down hill. As a shooter you need to draw the line between comfort and quality. Heat will kill the poly frame pistol if the frame is not molded right. If the frame is molded into the polymar, it will warp. Keep the internal frame seperate from the poly, it will live.

[muggsy]

The slight swelling of the frame is there to allow for air to circulate so as not to overheat the frame. How's that for a scientific explanation?

[Dino]

They should of tried that concept on the the space shuttle that blew up, a slight gap under the slide to vent the gun from debris and fowling sounds better.

[muggsy]

Several people here have told me I am a problem and have flaws. I've found no evidence to back this up but thought I'd throw it out there.

You have no flaws, Bawanna. That's the problem. With a few flaws you might fit in better. I have plenty of flaws to spare. :)

[jocko]

I would not find this accepetable, I own a couple polymar small carry pistols. Non of them have this problem. This deffinately looks to be a flaw. Non of my M&P poly pistols have this problem after seveal hundred rounds fired through them. I do not even get the shaveings with them. I love my Kahr MK40, real nice shooter. But with the advent of smaller, lighter pistols the quality has somewhat gone down hill. As a shooter you need to draw the line between comfort and quality. Heat will kill the poly frame pistol if the frame is not molded right. If the frame is molded into the polymar, it will warp. Keep the internal frame seperate from the poly, it will live.

way off with your views but if kthe guns bothers you PEDDLE IT. Your M & P is not a kahr and vice versa. Heat ain't gnna kill this poly frame, certainly not from shooting it. Why would anyone want to believe what ALL of the members here are tellin u?????:Amflag2:

[tigwelder56]

I'm not the perpetual new guy, just the new guy and have to agree with your statement, "Why would you want to believe what everyone here is telling you"? (Or something close ;-))

I've recently purchased a new PM 45 and have mentioned elsewhere that I'd probably be arrested if they saw the way I hug it before going to bed! I can see what is being debated here and really don't understand all the boo hooing! As smartly stated, if the looks are enough for you to consider need of therapy, you're probably wise to part ways with what has proven to be one of the nicest micro BIG BORE semi autos I've ever owned. Even with that darn hump, bump and notch... I'll give you 50% plus shipping to take that awful thing off your hands!! Just let me know!!

God Bless America and the Fighting Man and Woman that protects Her!! :Amflag2:

[LorenzoB]

It is not warped. It is not a flaw. It is not a problem. The frames come out of the mold exactly how Kahr designed it. Is it strange to have it flare out? I thought so at first. But I love my polymer Kahrs... and now I think the flared out frame adds a little flair!

I am on vacation now, so my CW9 is serving as my nightstand gun. I just pulled it out 10 minutes ago and with a smile on my face, I thought to myself "dang, what a nice pistol!".