Had a little "incident" today...

[CJB]

I'm not sure if trouble follows me, or I'm just refuse to walk away from it.

Today, I'm at a combination DunkinDonut/Subway place, sitting in my work van, trying to ditch the salesman on the phone, because I want some lunch!

Then I noticed a weathered homeless looking guy... strange looking... carrying a yellow "baton" in his hand. Then he began to chase folks on the sidewalk, yell and curse at them, shake the baton in a threatening manner. And finally he started chasing a pretty young mom with two kids, one maybe three or four, one about 1-1/2 or 2 and in stroller. They were at the bus bench and high tailed it for the gas station (and people) next door. Mr Homeless then jumped the hedges into the DD/Sub parking lot, and began to threaten folks there. He had that yellow baton, and a cup of DD coffee in his hands. That was it. Called 911 and began to follow him through the parking lot in my work van, keepin an eye on his ass. He went to the bank, cursed out folks in the drive thru, shook the baton at them too.

When I say shook the baton, I mean raised it behind and over his head and made false movements and threats to hit them.

Cops came, they found him, and that was that. I gave a brief statement. Cops found the baton, which turned out to be about 14 inches of heavywall HDPE pipe. It was inflexable, with a wall thickness of about 5/16 inch and about 2 inches in diameter. I held it for a second. It would have put a hurtin' on someone if he'd used it.

Cops said they knew the guy, and he gets a ride to the county ward via Baker Act about every two or three weeks. Seems a shame, but at least he didn't hurt anyone today.

After touching that piece of pipe... yes, I washed up three times, just in case Mr Homeless as carrying more than the coffee and stick.

Thinking back... I was telling the dispatch that if he hit anyone I was gonna have to drop the phone and put the guy out of commission. Fortunately that didn't need to happen.

[ltxi]

I'm not sure if trouble follows me, or I'm just refuse to walk away from it.

Today, I'm at a combination DunkinDonut/Subway place, sitting in my work van, trying to ditch the salesman on the phone, because I want some lunch!

Then I noticed a weathered homeless looking guy... strange looking... carrying a yellow "baton" in his hand. Then he began to chase folks on the sidewalk, yell and curse at them, shake the baton in a threatening manner. And finally he started chasing a pretty young mom with two kids, one maybe three or four, one about 1-1/2 or 2 and in stroller. They were at the bus bench and high tailed it for the gas station (and people) next door. Mr Homeless then jumped the hedges into the DD/Sub parking lot, and began to threaten folks there. He had that yellow baton, and a cup of DD coffee in his hands. That was it. Called 911 and began to follow him through the parking lot in my work van, keepin an eye on his ass. He went to the bank, cursed out folks in the drive thru, shook the baton at them too.

When I say shook the baton, I mean raised it behind and over his head and made false movements and threats to hit them.

Cops came, they found him, and that was that. I gave a brief statement. Cops found the baton, which turned out to be about 14 inches of heavywall HDPE pipe. It was inflexable, with a wall thickness of about 5/16 inch and about 2 inches in diameter. I held it for a second. It would have put a hurtin' on someone if he'd used it.

Cops said they knew the guy, and he gets a ride to the county ward via Baker Act about every two or three weeks. Seems a shame, but at least he didn't hurt anyone today.

After touching that piece of pipe... yes, I washed up three times, just in case Mr Homeless as carrying more than the coffee and stick.

Thinking back... I was telling the dispatch that if he hit anyone I was gonna have to drop the phone and put the guy out of commission. Fortunately that didn't need to happen.

Given his actions and history, I'd consider that bad luck.

[Sage]

There are far too many people like that on the streets. Sad, but what can you about it (legally)?

[wyntrout]

It's nice that you acted as a concerned citizen and was worried about him harming others. Maybe he was harmless, but you never know.

Unfortunately, many years ago the government was forced to let most of the "committed" people to the streets, rather than keeping them locked up... for their own protection, as well as the citizenry. ACLU handiwork, I think!

Wynn:)

[nuke]

You could have ran him over if he had gotten violent. At least you wouldn't be under scrutiny due to CC.

[jimsea]

They'll Baker act him to a lock down ward, he'll get a shot of thorazine in the ass and some other meds. They will keep him for 3-4-weeks and out he will come.

You may ask yourself what will happen to him. Usually they end up getting run over crossing traffic, or he will meet his demise if he does the pipe thing to the wrong person such as a cop or CCW holder.

I worked inpatient MH for a few years.........there is really no "fix" for these types. Meds are only a temporary reprieve, and that is only if they stay on them. No one wants to shoot a mentally ill person, but the fact remains that they can kill you just easily as a sane one.

[CJB]

Its 72 hours. Thats it for Baker Act, after that you need a judge to involuntarily commit the person... which almost never happens.

I wasn't gonna run him down, or injure him beyond knocking his dick in the dirt, and keepin him there till the cops arrived. Discernment matters.

[ltxi]

.......... No one wants to shoot a mentally ill person, but the fact remains that they can kill you just easily as a sane one.

Why not? Send him over to my house....the one with the "no guns here" sign in the yard.

[jimsea]

Its 72 hours. Thats it for Baker Act, after that you need a judge to involuntarily commit the person... which almost never happens.

I wasn't gonna run him down, or injure him beyond knocking his dick in the dirt, and keepin him there till the cops arrived. Discernment matters.

They'll keep him longer after assessing him if he continues his irrational behavior. I had to Baker act (by proxy) my own 20 yo daughter once after she decided LSD might be fun to try.......took 3 weeks for her brain to clear, or maybe that was when the insurance ran out. She's 26 now and honestly, I don't think her brain has ever been right. :biggrin1:

[CJB]

Might be jurisdictional - here in Fl, its 3 days, and then you need a judge - OR - you can volunteer for more "treatment". I hadda do my former ol' lady... so like you, first hand knowledge. They cannot force you to be treated, unless a judge says so - so its 72 hours and out the door on loopyjuice.

[Evi1joe]

"Unfortunately, many years ago the government was forced to let most of the "committed" people to the streets, rather than keeping them locked up... for their own protection, as well as the citizenry. ACLU handiwork, I think!"

Eh, it gets blamed on the ACLU by the right as much as it does Reagan by the left. Both are correct (*).


* -- Under LBJ and later Richard Nixon (he wasn't *all* bad!) the U.S. began "mainstreaming" people with various lesser handicaps. This was the period when wheelchair ramps started to become commonplace.

But the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act (LPS), supported by the ACLUwas signed into law in 1967 by Governor Ronald Reagan. The idea was to "stem entry into the state hospital by encouraging the community system to accept more patients, hopefully improving quality of care while allowing state expense to be alleviated by the newly available federal funds." It also was designed to protect the rights of mental patients. It was considered a landmark of its time--a change in the attitude toward mental illness and its treatment.

The law restricted involuntary commitment, among other things. It allows people to refuse treatment for mental illness, unless they are clearly a danger to someone else or themselves. It facilitated release of many patients---supposedly to go to community mental health treatment programs.

Reagan's role, besides signing the bill, was using it as a reason to cut his budget. What Reagan did was, at the same time the bill was passed, to reduce the budget for state mental hospitals. His budget bill "abolished 1700 hospital staff positions and closed several of the state-operated aftercare facilities. Reagan promised to eliminate even more hospitals if the patient population continued to decline. Year-end population counts for the state hospitals had been declining by approximately 2000 people per year since 1960."

This law presumed that the people released from hospitals or not committed at all would be funneled in community treatment as provided by the Short Doyle Act of 1957. It was "was designed to organize and finance community mental health services for persons with mental illness through locally administered and locally controlled community health programs."

It also presumed that the mentally ill would voluntarily accept treatment if it were made available to them on a community basis. However, because of the restrictions on involuntary commitment, seriously mentally ill people who would not consent to treatment "who clearly needed treatment but did not fit the new criteria or who recycled through short term stays -- became a community dilemma. For them, there was nowhere to go." Once released, they would fail to take meds or get counseling and went right back to being seriously ill.

Also, unfortunately, at the time LPS was implemented, funding for community systems either declined or was not beefed up. Many counties did not have adequate community mental health services in place and were unable to fund them. Federal funds for community mental health programs, which LPS assumed would pick up the slack, began drying up in the early 1980s, due to budget cutbacks in general. The Feds shifted funding responsibility to the states.
****
Alas, as inflation and Reaganomics took their toll, the "pull" to bring the handicapped & mentally ill out into society became a "push" to get them off of the dwindling entitlements budgets, and an awful lot of folks were given their liberty who, perhaps, would have been better off institutionalized.

But, yes, the ACLU has fought for the rights of people to be free, even the freedom to live in alleyways and eat from trash cans. As I understand it, the ACLU has long held the fairly libertarian notion that involuntary institutionalization of an unwilling person, even if mentally or physically incapable, is the worst of two evils.

It was a combination of good intentions and lack of money.

[Popeye]

Glad nobody got hurt, including the mentally ill homeless guy.

[muggsy]

They'll keep him longer after assessing him if he continues his irrational behavior. I had to Baker act (by proxy) my own 20 yo daughter once after she decided LSD might be fun to try.......took 3 weeks for her brain to clear, or maybe that was when the insurance ran out. She's 26 now and honestly, I don't think her brain has ever been right. :biggrin1:

I had a cousin who tried LSD once and ended up bipolar for life. A real burden for her family.

[jimsea]

I had a cousin who tried LSD once and ended up bipolar for life. A real burden for her family.

Not to go off topic but that's interesting. Mine who appeared normal in all respects prior to the LSD incident was diagnosed with Substance induced Psychotic Break when she went to the loony bin. But really, after her brain cleared and she was released she seemed to be a text book bipolar.

[Dueeast]

If you were in NJ, you would be in jail, and Mr. Homeless would be nominated for public office.

[jeepster09]

If you were in NJ, you would be in jail, and Mr. Homeless would be nominated for public office.

I afraid not only in NJ.....TODAYS WORLD defends the :angel: poor homeless victim. If you would of detained him using your weapon you would of been in real deep trouble. It would of been better to video him with your cell phone camera and give copy to police.
I would only use my weapon to defend my self or family sadly.....I can not afford the costs that go with todays legal system.:mad:

[jocko]

as cold as it may seem what jeepster09 said is exacdtlty what I would do. Myself and family comes first, all else better take care of themselves. Yes I think I could walk away from someone getting mugged, as it would be my luck that they were making a video and I didn't know it was staged etc and now I am doin time while they are out spening my life saving. Fokk that Sh!t. \Yup I might be cold but then that is what jackets are made for to..:Amflag2:

FLASH; WOW. I just got a phone call from the NRA and they actually hookedme up to Joe Donnelly (our senator) office to voice our dissaproval of the back ground checks. All Iha dto do was hold on like and they did all the connecting work. I did not get Joe directly but I got a real womans voice and was able to relate my feelings and yes I was very nice about it all to..

[Bawanna]

I'm the reincarnation of Charles Bronson. I will not tolerate evil and unfairness, (other than government everyday business of course) in my presence.

I don't have a cape YET but maybe some day. Damsels in distress, underdogs, don't matter, if it's something bad happening I'm jumpin in to sort it out.

Better to die in battle than be shot in the back by some 20 year old for fooling around with his girlfriend ya know.

I'm cautious of misleading things which undoubtedly will be the cause of my demise. Checking and figuring when I should be shooting and reloading.

[getsome]

Even the Police are in a bad situation if they have to use force to restrain somebody....On the Atlanta news last night was a story about a 911 call to the projects involving domestic violence... When the Police get there and pull the guy out of the apartment all he!! breaks loose....This was a BIG guy about 6'4" and at least 350 lbs and he was fighting the cops for all he was worth even after being pepper sprayed and tasered he still cold cocked a couple of the officers before about 8 of them got him on the ground and cuffed...

All the while this was happening some yahoo community activist was filming the whole thing on her cell phone and now there is some big internal investigation and the officers involved are suspended and off the streets until the matter is resolved....

What a joke, what were they supposed to do, say please mister wife beater come over to the car and be nice????...I respect the Police and in a situation like that I think they had every right to beat the holy crap out of that jerk but Noooooo, he was right to fight the cops and the Police are the bad guys......What a crock!!!!....

[CJB]

Better to die in battle than be shot in the back by some 20 year old for fooling around with his girlfriend ya know.

Seriously Bawanna.... I didn't know she was your girlfriend!!!!!

[ltxi]

I'm the reincarnation of Charles Bronson. I will not tolerate evil and unfairness, (other than government everyday business of course) in my presence.

I don't have a cape YET but maybe some day. Damsels in distress, underdogs, don't matter, if it's something bad happening I'm jumpin in to sort it out.

Better to die in battle than be shot in the back by some 20 year old for fooling around with his girlfriend ya know.

I'm cautious of misleading things which undoubtedly will be the cause of my demise. Checking and figuring when I should be shooting and reloading.

With apologies to whomever I stole this from.....

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them."

-- John Wayne, The Shootist

At my age, I no longer give a rat's ass about the consequences (not that I ever did, although I should have and have been lucky) as long as I'm doing those damsels in distress, underdog defending, bad happening fixin' thingys you be talking about.

Plus, once I've completely retired later this year, them no guns here signs be goin' up in the yard....replacing the ADTs.

[Kahrdriver64]

CJB, good for you keeping a cool head. That nagging "what would a reasonable person have done" thingy springs to mind. Sounds like a really tough call, but everyone involved will see tomorrow....

[ltxi]

CJB, good for you keeping a cool head. That nagging "what would a reasonable person have done" thingy springs to mind. Sounds like a really tough call, but everyone involved will see tomorrow....

Which I still consider a damn shame......