My Thompson broke !

[redzr]

I purchased a TM1 Thompson from a local gund shop about 5 months ago and have ran around 150- 200 rounds through it. Today, while at the range, I experienced a serious problem with it.

At first, it would not feed rounds from the magazine (I had a used one) and then it worked ok with the new magazine for another 15 rounds or so. Then I switched back to the used magazine (which I purchased from AO) and after about 5 shots the bolt froze with a round in the chamber. The bolt was probably 2 or 3 inched back from the shell (the round was loose in the chamber) and the bolt would not move either forward or backward- it is stuck.

I have access to a gun-smith who has serviced them before (and the full auto ones) and he is going to look at it.

Has anyone else had this happen? The bolt is really frozen solid.

Any advive and help is appreciated.

Dan

[Bawanna]

I haven't ever heard of this before. I suspect the mag feeding and the bolt getting stuck are not related but just a guess there. No one has made Thompson mags since WWII so even new Tommy guns come with surplus mags.

Wondering if the round left in the chamber was fired or unfired.

Did you buy it new or used?

[redzr]

The round was unfired.
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. The frustrating thing was that the gun was spot on as far as accuracy goes before it had the failure.
I bought it used (manufactured in 2008) and it had all the paperwork (including unfiled warranty registration card) with it. It was in very good condition and the shop knew the owner.
Dan

[Bawanna]

I suspect your local guy will be able to cure it but if not Kahr I'm sure can fix it up for you.

The recoil springs in those things are monsters, I can't imagine the bolt jamming up tight against that kind of pressure. Something has to be broken or dropped out of place.

Been awhile since I was inside mine and I can't think of anything obvious that could be the culprit.

Do keep us in the loop for future reference. There are a few Tommy gunners here. Ghostsoldier hasn't posted lately, I hope he's still looking now and then, he's my go to Tommy guy.

I think Deacon might have a Tommy too, somebody else just got one not long ago, memory is a terrible thing to waste.

[Ghostsoldier]

I'm still here...just working all the time, trying to put the kids through school; one bright note, is my oldest just got his first job as a cop...looks like he'll start pulling his own weight around here, and I might be able to buy that '28 I've been wanting!

Redzr....you didn't say if it was the aluminum frame T1, or the steel. If it's the aluminum, then I've known guys to have similar issues with those...they are not happy campers. Those lightweight models appear to wear out pretty quick.

If it's the steel receiver version, like my good buddy Bawanna said, it's probably a bolt/recoil spring issue; if your local guy can't fix it, I would consider sending it back to Kahr for repairs.

I would also suggest swapping those stock recoil springs with a set of EZ Pull springs and bufffer; for around 50-60 bucks, you'll have a bolt you can pull back with two fingers, plus you'll minimize some of the impact force wear-and-tear on the receiver. You can put it in yourself in about 5 minutes.

Let us know what happens. ;)

Rob

[redzr]

Ghostsoldier,

Congrats on the employment of your son, I have 3 kids (16, 13 &10)and dream of that day !!

My M1 is a steel version. I asked Kahr's tech support about those lighter springs and they told me not to do them (stay with the heavier factory springs). The tech guy said the closed bolt design needed that added spring pressure.

However, it would not hurt to try them once I get the gun back. Where do you get them?

I hope the gun can be fixed quickly and cheaply- I really enjoy shooting it and its pretty darn accurate. The only thing I do not get is why is there a open circle in the rear sight (below the V groove). I originally thought it was for sighting but when using it (and centering the front sight in the middle of it) the gun shot low. I switched to the traditional "v" slot and it was dead accurate.

Any info on those springs is appreciated.

Dan

[Bawanna]

I'm sure glad your still around Ghostsoldier and I too am glad your son found gainful employment. I doubt he'll share much with you but does create less drain on your resources.

My last son just finished classes and has a job interview next week so he's starting to carry some of the load too. Sadly him and his older brother are still living with me just with more jingle in their pocket. I'm ok with it really, I'd probably just waste the loot on guns and ammo and stuff anyhow.

I finally got my mag release lever properly modified as you instructed me long ago. I did it but not quite enough apparently, some mags didn't want to lock in, spent a little more time with it and now it's perfect. Got about a dozen mags that all lock in perfectly. Still need to function test them but I have high hopes.

Never did do the recoil spring thing YET. Baby steps. So I'll wait for more info on that as well.

redzr, do let us know what you find. We can all learn from your experience.

[Salty]

My friend had a bolt jam issue with his and Kahr replaced the ejector and bolt. Do you happen to remember if any of the empty cases had their mouths bent on an angle ? That is what his cases looked like. Tech support at Kahr - don't get me started - imo it is a joke at best. Probably best to get a RMA and send it back - unfortunately it will probably cost you postage each way even if it is their problem.

[jocko]

i WAS AT A SMALL assgun show today and there were 4 (differenttables) OF rUGER mINI 14, 2 STAINLESSWITH SUPRESSOR AND TWO BLUE WITH SUPRESSOR. $1500 eac. WTF am I missing her guys. thatis simply outrageous---isn't it????

[Bawanna]

i WAS AT A SMALL assgun show today and there were 4 (differenttables) OF rUGER mINI 14, 2 STAINLESSWITH SUPRESSOR AND TWO BLUE WITH SUPRESSOR. $1500 eac. WTF am I missing her guys. thatis simply outrageous---isn't it????

That's robbery! I have an early blued one I'd sell for 1495.

Ok 1395?

1195?

Ok, 1000 even.....plus shipping and dealer prep.

[redzr]

:DAn update !!!

The gunsmth called me this afternoon to tell me the gun was ready and working fine.

He told me that the extractor "blew" off the bolt and lodged itself tight. Aside from getting it apart and geting the extractor straightened out he polished the feed port to/in the barrel, adjusted the spread on the magazine (it was too wide) and did some polishing on the bolt and mechanism to make it a little smoother.

He test fired 3 shots and all seemed well.

I was using FMC shells at the time and he thinks the problem was caused by the shells being too "hot". He told me to stay away from foreign made stuff. He aklos tole me I should replace the extractor sometime since mine was a little bent and he straightened it out, but long term a new piece would be best.

I was asking him about a short barrel conversion and he came back with a short barrel model to show me- SWEET :cool:

Thanks to all for your help, I really appreciate it.

Dan

[Bawanna]

That's great news and not a traumatic issue. Semi easy fix and it was nice of him to go the extra mile on the polishing.

If you do that reduced spring deal that polishing will really help, in fact I think they say to so some polishing before you do the springs so everything works smoothly.

Happy your back on the track. Feel free to fire Tommy questions, I don't know much but Ghostsoldier's been slacking for a long time and it's high time he participated a little more since his kids helping now.

I'd love to do the short barrel thing too, want it really bad but not sure I want to jump through all the hoops and pay the 200 tax stamp plus buy a barrel.

Probably should do it asap before they don't even let me have a long barrel tommy. Tommy's were made for short barrels.

[redzr]

Yes, I am quite glad it's fixed. The fellow who fixed it was very interesting and I really enjoyed taking with him. I must admit he really knew Thompsons pretty well. Now I can hardly wait to get the thing back to he range and run some more round through it.

You can sure attract a ton of looks when you carry a Thompson out of a gun shop!

[Ghostsoldier]

Lol...'slacking' is my middle name, B! :D

Yeah, I let my kids live at home, too...the world's a tough and expensive place as it is for us older ones, so I try to make it as easy a transition as I can.

Redzr...glad you got it fixed. The polishing is a good thing; it will definitely help with the gun's operation. As far as Kahr techs telling you not to install the spring kit, that makes no sense to me. I've had mine in for years, and never had a single issue, as have a lot of my friends. Must be a warranty thing with Kahr.

You can get those spring sets from Tommygunner.com, but he wants waaay to much money for 'em, for my purse....I got mine here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/colt1927/thompson/ez.htm

..and I only paid 50 bucks. Plus, you can drop them in yourself...no adjustments or modifications needed. ;)

If you haven't yet, you may want to order a second mag catch from Kahr, and modify it to use unaltered mags; I have a tutorial around here somewhere, when I did my own. Kahr drills out the catch holes in the mags they ship to an oblong shape, to fit their semi-auto catch, but since there's been no new Thompson mags manufactured since WW2, it makes since to modify your catch so you can use any surplus magazine you buy in future.

And yeah, you're right...nothing equals the looks you get with a Thompson; unless, you have the SBR version! :D

[Ghostsoldier]

Here's a few pics of the kit:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/ghostsoldier/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000041.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghostsoldier/media/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000041.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/ghostsoldier/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000040.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghostsoldier/media/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000040.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/ghostsoldier/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000039.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghostsoldier/media/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000039.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/ghostsoldier/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000038.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghostsoldier/media/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000038.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/ghostsoldier/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000037.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghostsoldier/media/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000037.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/ghostsoldier/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000035.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ghostsoldier/media/My%20Impression%20stuff/My%20Weapons/IM000035.jpg.html)

As you can see, it's a drop-in operation; just slip the green buffer on, drop on the new springs, and button it back up. ;)

Rob

[redzr]

well the extractor came off again last night after 20 rounds. Thankfully it did not lock the bolt but it did pop off the end of the bolt. I reattached it and it came off again after 1 round. I have a new extractor coming in today (gunsmith suggested I get a spare since the original was slightly bent). so we will see if that helps.

The slots in the bolt look fine I am hoping its just the extractor.

The frustrating part was the first 20 rounds were fired at a target approximately 20 yards away and the gun was dead accurate. I basically shot the center out of the target.

Anyone else encounter this?
Dan

[Ghostsoldier]

Not me...but, I keep a spare extractor in the butt of my gun, just in case.

Rob

[Salty]

That's robbery! I have an early blued one I'd sell for 1495.

Ok 1395?

1195?

Ok, 1000 even.....plus shipping and dealer prep.

Does the mask come with the mini so I can make the money back ?

[Bawanna]

Does the mask come with the mini so I can make the money back ?

I don't use a mask, all I got is a paper sack with eye holes. I use it driving my F word van so nobody knows it's me. Course I been driving it 6 or 8 years so I think many have figured it out.

[Tinman507]

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_61227173_q4djnk398h.png

[Bawanna]

well the extractor came off again last night after 20 rounds. Thankfully it did not lock the bolt but it did pop off the end of the bolt. I reattached it and it came off again after 1 round. I have a new extractor coming in today (gunsmith suggested I get a spare since the original was slightly bent). so we will see if that helps.

The slots in the bolt look fine I am hoping its just the extractor.

The frustrating part was the first 20 rounds were fired at a target approximately 20 yards away and the gun was dead accurate. I basically shot the center out of the target.

Anyone else encounter this?
Dan

I've not had any extractor problems either, I don't have a whole lot of rounds through mine. I have some spare parts, don't remember if I have an extractor or not, guess I better check.

I'm gonna check into that spring kit as well, been meaning to do that since it first came up and never did. Maybe I'm turning into a procrastinator?

[Ghostsoldier]

I was going to accuse you of being one, B, but decided I would wait, and do it later. :D
Rob

[DeaconKC]

Glad to see you back, and thanks for the suggestion on the spares.

[jhunt67]

Posted this in the machinegun forum, but then read this and thought it ought to be here: by the way, I have a 1927A1 steel receiver and was using brass case 230g.

"I have read several other threads with this happening to their Kahr semis - so I thought I'd pass this along, perhaps this is a chronic Kahr design problem that Kahr should fix.

"I bought my Kahr last summer, put 100 rds and some thru the gun. Basically no problem and I gave the gun a good review. I expected problems because I had read Kahr horrow stories. Then I put the gun up and returned to the bigger bang on the M1 Garand. This spring I took the gun out so that my daughter could see what it was like.

"Put five rounds in a Seymour 20 rd mag and the gun ran perfectly. Waited a bit, the put another five in the same mag, she chambered a rd, fired fine, and then it failed to extract completely. I went to clear the rd for her and the bolt was jammed mid way back in the reciever. Would not budge. I could not really visualize the extracter or the bolt head.

"It took some effort but I was able to seperate upper from lower, and eventually move the bolt enough backwards that it left the extractor which was wedged between side of upper and bolt. The extractor had a slight curve in it, but I am thinking that might be normal to hold it in the bolt. I slipped the extractor back in the bolt and it snapped in place. It seems to slide in the upper OK now, normally. There is a slight scrap along the side of the upper where the bolt rides.

"I don't know, I have not decided if I should go out and fire it and see if it works, or just get a new extractor. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

"So this seems to be an issue with Kahr's?"

[Bawanna]

Not with mine. I don't have a whole lot of rounds thru it, I bought it used and the round count could not have been very high but I've not had any issue such as described here.

I do hear of people keep spare extractors on hand so maybe it's a concern.

I haven't been there yet myself.

[redzr]

OK- I installed a new extractor and went to the range yesterday and one shot is all I got before feed/extractor problems. The spend casing was still kinda sideways in the gun and lodging the bolt partially back and the extractor was pulled from the bolt (the rear was still in the groves but the extractor was pulled 1/4" or so beyond the front of the bolt.

Upon returning home I took the gun apart and noticed that the empty casing fit in the end of the bolt very, very tight. After it snapped under the extractor it was very tough to remove. Upon closer examination I noticed that the a portion of the bolt "facing" (the round hollow part that slides over the shell) was slightly bent inwards right below the slot on the ejector side of the bolt.

I used my Dremel to dress it a little and remove a little material to make it round again. The shell seems to extract much easier from the bolt.

I am going to test it again tomorrow to see if the bend was wedging the empty casing enough to prevent easy extraction- I really hope that is the case.

If not I am going to ship it back to AO. Does anyone have any recent experiences with their repair services they would like to share?

Thank you,
Dan

[DeaconKC]

Good luck on it Dan.

[Ghostsoldier]

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble, Dan...let us know what happens.
Rob

[redzr]

Well its going back to AO. I got one shot off before the extractor came out again and jammed the bolt with a live round in limbo. I got the round out but the bolt is simply stuck. I hope they have excellent repair abilities !

[WYn]

Well its going back to AO. I got one shot off before the extractor came out again and jammed the bolt with a live round in limbo. I got the round out but the bolt is simply stuck. I hope they have excellent repair abilities !

I had the exact same problem with approximately the same number of rounds as you are experiencing.

I bought my gun new in October of 2011. Within a couple hundred rounds it jammed and would not fire. Since it was brand new I brought it back to my dealer and they sent it back to AO.

Six weeks later it came back and the first time back to the range within 50 rounds the extractor fell out. Back to the dealer, back to AO. I talked to AO this time and they said because it was a repeat the chief gunsmith would do the work and it would move to the front of the line. I had it back in about 8 days and it's worked perfectly since then.

I've got a couple spare extractors in my case now, just in case.

Of course since I've spent the money and actually have the spares, the extractor will never fall out again.

Cheap insurance...

[redzr]

Ok all. In desperation I sent it back this afternoon along with both mags so they can check those as well. I hope they can fix it correctly the first time. I have read a lot of bad stuff about A/O service not being very good and hope they are on top of their game now!
Dan

[redzr]

An update- I received my gun back today in the mail with a summary of their work. It lists the following:
1) rework bolt & extractor
2) lube
3) test- works fine

It looks as if they simply "pinned" the extractor into the bolt by drilling a semi-vertical hole through the bolt that going through the extractor. They then inserted a metal pin into the hole to anchor the extractor. All of this was done toward the rear of the extractor

Anyone ever seen this done before? I hope this fixes it!

Dan

[Bawanna]

If it didn't they'll be going at it again until it does. No question about that.

[redzr]

Well I ran about 80 rounds through my rifle today and the results were good and bad. The good is that with the factory 30 round mag the gun ran perfectly- at 20 yards I punched the center out of a target- a ton of fun !!!!!

The bad thing is that the second 30 round mag that I purchased from AO is not feeding correctly. I asked them if they would swap it for another one.
Dan

[redzr]

Well I received my rifle back and wanted to provide a quick update. First it came back in two weeks. I was a little alarmed because it just arrived one day and I had expected an email or phone call from them on its status, but it was repaired under warranty and free of charge.

I was experiencing problems with the extractor slipping off the bolt and jamming the gun. To sove the problem they "pinned" the extractor to the bolt by drilling a small vertical hole through both and inserting a metal pin to hold the extractor at the rear of the extractor.

I took it to the range on Monday and loaded a mag with 25 rounds in it and hoped for the best. To say the gun ran flawlessly would be an understatement. I remained lined up on the target and continued to pull the trigger until it jammed again or was empty. All 25 rounds fired and I punched the center of the target out. The gun was awesome! I fired another 20 rounds with that mag and it too worked perfectly

The only problem I had was the second 30 round mag I purchased from them would jam the gun. Upon inspection it looked as if the hole for the mag catch was too big and not allowing the mag to seat all the way at the top.

At about 9pm last night I sent a picture of each mag to the AO tech email and asked them if they would swap mags with me. No kidding...15 minutes later I was told I could send mine back and they would swap me.

I can not compliment AO/Kahr enough on their customer service. They were excellent !!!!!!!!

Dan

[johnh]

Good deal! I have been looking at the Thompson SBRs myself, and it is good to hear support is strong for them. I may just have to do another tax stamp this year. :)

[JustinN]

Ugh, I'm in the same boat as John....way before I was old enough to own a gun I've wanted a Thompson....

[Bawanna]

I'd strongly entertain the idea of modifying the mag release to utilize unmessed with Thompson mags myself. Getting mags from Kahr and using the ones you have if you don't intend to have a pile of them is ok but by modifying the mag release you can run any GI mag.

Since no one makes aftermarket Thompson mags I almost feel guilty enlarging the hole on one.

It took me a long time to get serious and actually do it but once I started it wasn't tough. I had some issues and found that I didn't quite take enough material off the catch. Did a little fine tuning and now it works with all mags really fine.

[apsanford]

They do have a 50 round drum available aftermarket. Maybe sticks someday.


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[Trueaim]

Yes, tech support at Kahr is a joke. They seem to read from a prepared script. My Tommy has been back to the factory twice in a year and it still won't fire. They replaced the ejector and the firing pin and filed the bolt.