Texas LEOs arrest law-abiding citizen

[Armybrat]

13 minute video of a Texas man who says he was an Iraq war veteran & CHL holder:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345714/free-cj-grisham

He was doing nothing illegal, but the LEOs were correct in detaining & disarming him.

HOWEVER, they had no business arresting him and confiscating his firearms. It is entirely legal in Texas to tote a loaded long gun in public as long as you are not acting in a threatening manner and not in a restricted area.

The officers are apparently ignorant of the laws they are supposed to enforce. Carrying "rudely"? There is no such language in the state penal code.

[muggsy]

If he had cooperated with the officer he would not have been arrested. The guy was being an A-hole in front of his son by not showing proper respect for authority. He should lose his carry permit.

[Ikeo74]

If he had cooperated with the officer he would not have been arrested. The guy was being an A-hole in front of his son by not showing proper respect for authority. He should lose his carry permit.
He was well armed just for a Boy Scout Hiking Badge. An AK and a concealed handgun and a video camera (phone). Kind of gives an impression he was looking for a confrontation with the law.

[Armybrat]

If he had cooperated with the officer he would not have been arrested. The guy was being an A-hole in front of his son by not showing proper respect for authority. He should lose his carry permit.

I disagree. He says the officer did not ask him to disarm, he just grabbed at the rifle. No probable cause from the way it looks.
I'd get upset if that's what anybody did without warning.

Plus the officers refused to say why they were arresting him.

[Armybrat]

If he had cooperated with the officer he would not have been arrested. The guy was being an A-hole in front of his son by not showing proper respect for authority. He should lose his carry permit.

He clearly stated he would've cooperated fully if the officer had followed procedure and asked for his weapons.

Every CHL in Texas is taught that.

[muggsy]

He clearly stated he would've cooperated fully if the officer had followed procedure and asked for his weapons.

Every CHL in Texas is taught that.

The guy was being confrontational from the start. He damn well lucky that the officers showed restraint. He could have been laying in a pool of his own blood. You want to screw with the police be my guest. Every police officer wants to go home and kiss their wife and kids at the end of the shift. This guy was an open carry a-hole with a point to prove. You don't need a camera to document a merit badge. A scouts word is his honor.

[Armybrat]

This guy got confrontational because the officer mishandled the call by grabbing for his gun without asking him to disarm.

I would loudly object to that kind of incompetence too.

It is not against the law to get loud when you are protesting when your rights are being violated.

I think all Texas police officers should get the same level of training that Texas Game Wardens go through - then incidents like this involving law-abiding citizens would not occur.

Two of my nephews, both Texas street cops (Kerrville & Dallas), said the same thing.

[Tinman507]

We don't know how it started since the video was started while he was on the hood, face planted.

As far as the video record of the hike, the scout likely had to prove to his merit badge counselor that he in fact did take the hike. Likely for hiking merit badge.

[Armybrat]

We don't know how it started since the video was started while he was on the hood, face planted.

As far as the video record of the hike, the scout likely had to prove to his merit badge counselor that he in fact did take the hike. Likely for hiking merit badge.

Since this incident, the "resisting arrest" charge has been reduced to "interfering with a police officer. lol

How is verbally protesting your rights being violated a crime?

No crime was being committed in the first place.

Here's the Staff Sergeant's more detailed statement:


He described how it all happened:

At about the 5 mile mark of our hike, a voice behind us asked us to stop and the officer motioned for us to approach him. He got out of his car and met us a few feet later. He asked us what we were doing and I explained that we were hiking for my son’s merit badge. He then asked me what I’m doing with the rifle, to which I responded in a calm manner, “Does it matter, officer? Am I breaking the law?”


At that point, the officer grabbed my rifle without warning or indication. He didn’t ask for my rifle and he didn’t suggest he would take it from me. He simply grabbed it. This startled me and I instantly pulled back – the rifle was attached to me – and I asked what he thought he was doing because he’s not taking my rifle. He then pulled his service pistol on me and told me to take my hands off the weapon and move to his car, which I complied with. He then slammed me into the hood of his car and I remembered I had a camera on me (one of the requirements of the hiking merit badge is to document your hikes)…Up to this point, I am not told why I am being stopped, why he tried to disarm me, or even that I’m under arrest.


Very poorly mishandled by the LEO, as he should've asked for the weapon. The SSGT wasn't committing a crime.

[Sage]

This was handled very badly by the LEO's and not very well by the armed citizen. I don't think he should have been arrested.

[chrish]

They best drop the charges and issue a public apology. Then deal w/ the poorly trained officer as they see fit. Personally, I think he belongs behind a desk. He's not capable of appropriate behavior w/ the public. The officer's response to the "am I breaking the law" comment should have simply been "for my safety and yours i'd like to remove your rifle from your should while we talk, may I do that sir?"

I'm sure that would have been met w/ more respect and kept the situation calm.

That being said, the guy shouldn't have been a smart*** in the first place. Call the response what you want, but it was an attempt at a snarky response to prove a point. People have to realize that not all police are well trained, not all police have a calm sane demeanor, and they are in charge regardless of your 'rights' out on the street. You can scream all you want about your 'rights' once you are in court, but during the altercation if you are willing to run the risk of being cuffed, stuffed, or worse, then so be it I suppose. Your 'rights' don't mean jack in the heat of the moment when confronted in a situation like this. Not saying it's right, but it's reality. There are idiots everywhere. This one just happened to be a police officer and should have been treated with kid gloves until the situation resolves itself or you find yourself in court.

[Bawanna]

Words to live by right there and as mentioned we are not complete aware of all the circumstances leading up to or the early stages of the event.

I agree on all counts based on what I read which I don't put much credence in. The media sometimes omit's semi important details.

[muggsy]

This elbow was far more interested in having his son film the incident than he was in his son's safety. He became confrontational when he asked the office if he had broken the law instead of answering the officer's question. He was looking for trouble and found it. I have no sympathy for this idiot. He gives every law abiding gun owner a black eye. You don't question the police. You answer their questions politely and do what you are told to do. You say yes sir and no sir and give them the respect that their badge has earned them. Some day you may need their help. This military man didn't learn how to conduct himself in the army. Now his poor son is traumatized by the mere sight of a police officer. I think that the a-hole is just looking for some tax payer money.

[chrish]

This elbow was far more interested in having his son film the incident than he was in his son's safety..

Definitely an elbow, but don't discount the benefit of video taping the altercation, it might save you or someone you know from jail some day! There are WORSE cops out there than the OTHER elbow in this situation.


Now his poor son is traumatized by the mere sight of a police officer. I think that the a-hole is just looking for some tax payer money.

Calling BS on that one. Stupid comment by this <cough> parent. No kid working on his Eagle Scout badge would be phased by this. If he's truly Eagle Scout material, hopefully he told his dad what a moron he was being. Then again, Eagle Scout ain't what it used to be now is it?

[Armybrat]

At the end of the video when he was cuffed & stuffed, the soldier told his son these cops were good guys, but they get po'd when they're embarrassed.

Personally, I would have voiced my opinion loudly to begin with about the way it was being mishandled, but would not have run my mouth as much as he did.

The police cruiser camera should've picked everything up, but unfortunately a lot of those cameras are somehow not turned on.

[jimsea]

The tragedy here was the trauma he put his son through so he could have a video to post on his blog.

Bronze star with "V" or not this guy had to know he would be challenged by the police at some point to check to see if he was legally carrying.......rural area or not. Kids need to know that when men with badges and guns show up there are two responses, yes sir and no sir.

Open carry or not, FL (not) has way too many wackos, and in this state the police would have drawn down on him and made him comply with their instructions. Any noncompliance whatsoever would have resulted injuries a bit more serious than getting his pride hurt or the indignation of his rights being violated.

[muggsy]

Definitely an elbow, but don't discount the benefit of video taping the altercation, it might save you or someone you know from jail some day! There are WORSE cops out there than the OTHER elbow in this situation.



Calling BS on that one. Stupid comment by this <cough> parent. No kid working on his Eagle Scout badge would be phased by this. If he's truly Eagle Scout material, hopefully he told his dad what a moron he was being. Then again, Eagle Scout ain't what it used to be now is it?

I have been stopped by the police on a number of occasions and I've always been treated with the utmost respect, because I treated the officers with the utmost respect. I have never felt a need for a video camera. Very often I was released with a polite warning instead of a summons. The police have a tendency to treat you as you treat them.

[Armybrat]

Same here, and I've never been asked to turn over my weapon, much less having a LEO grab it.

[Longitude Zero]

Basically you have 2 supreme idiots collide. The officer was a bit overly agressive and the supposed "victim" was a bung hole. It would be interesting to see the vidoe uncut from before the officer even arrived on the scene.

Right wrong or indifferent is is stupid to run your mouth to the officer on the scene. You will almost always loose. The mature action is to wait and speak with a supervisor.

[Longitude Zero]

I have been stopped by the police on a number of occasions and I've always been treated with the utmost respect, because I treated the officers with the utmost respect. I have never felt a need for a video camera. Very often I was released with a polite warning instead of a summons. The police have a tendency to treat you as you treat them.

Very sage and learned advice to follow.

[chrish]

I have been stopped by the police on a number of occasions and I've always been treated with the utmost respect, because I treated the officers with the utmost respect. I have never felt a need for a video camera. Very often I was released with a polite warning instead of a summons. The police have a tendency to treat you as you treat them.

Yea, I understand that, I get it. I'm just saying a 'tendency' isn't always what you get. You might get the poorly trained one day, or the egomaniac on a power trip, or the liberal cop out to prove a point, or whatever...maybe just a guy having a bad day. Being a cop doesn't make you super-human always-respectful always right. They put dash cams on cruisers for a reason and it goes both ways. Just sayin'.

Would I have taped it? Probably not. But then again, I wouldn't have acted like a jerk wad in the first place. I'd have probably immediately put my hands on my head and ASKED the officer if he'd remove my weapon so that we could be comfortable to talk about the issue, and by the way officer, I also have my concealed carry sidearm on at x'oclock if you would like to remove that as well. Always work to keep the situation calm and respectful. This guy did not do that. Nor did the police officer. Nor did the OTHER police officer.

Like many have said, two morons (three in this case if you count the other cop) don't make for a good end result.

I agree w/ jimsea too, the trauma to the kid is having this video on the internet, not the interaction w/ a cop w/ a bad attitude. I can't believe someone with MILITARY training would consider that 'trauma'. What a DOLT! If you have a video, it's for court later, not for public consumption.

This should have ended w/ no video posted on the internet, the guy getting a warning, his guns back, and both of them pissing and moaning at home that night to their wives about the idiot they ran into that day.

[Glock23]

Regardless of what you know your rights to be, it is 100% stupid to argue or resist when the situation arises because of an officer's lack of comfort with you having a weapon.

Playing Constitutional Commando does nothing more than exacerbate the situation, in most cases.

Be polite and respectful, let the officer do what he intends to do, and if the need arises, let your lawyer be the constitutional expert in court.

[chrish]

Regardless of what you know your rights to be, it is 100% stupid to argue or resist when the situation arises because of an officer's lack of comfort with you having a weapon.

Playing Constitutional Commando does nothing more than exacerbate the situation, in most cases.

Be polite and respectful, let the officer do what he intends to do, and if the need arises, let your lawyer be the constitutional expert in court.

EXACTLY!

Not to mention it makes gun owners look like a bunch of idiots. Hurts the cause more than helps!

[Longitude Zero]

Very true. The anti's want to paint us as ignorant, reactionaries that cannot be trusted. This fool helped the anti's a great deal. Just because you have the right to open your mouth does not mean you should. Many times silence is the intelligent option. Any dunce can run his/her pie hole. It takes a truly mature adult to hold their council and wait for the proper time to reveal their countenance.

[jocko]

might just beme but I think he was looking for a confrontation. He legally might have done nuttin wrong but he is the one who is out money and mabye his guns and permit. Hel lhe had a 45 on him concealed, was't that enough to protect himself??? Why intice a rouge cop to, with an exposed gun, legal ornot,. There are as we know alot of cops who think we shold not have guns period let alone be carrying them down the road.

The video does not put he cops in a good light either, but again to win his case he will spend bucks doing it and he won't sue andcollect jack sh
!t IMO... no one wins here IMO>

[Longitude Zero]

If you go about looking for trouble it will surely find you.