Is it worth it?

[knkali]

After reading Getsome's post on another thread and others like it. I am going through a moment of weakness. Is it worth carrying a cw? If I use it and it is justified, my life and my family's will be financially ruined. If it wasnt a good shoot, I am ruined. I value my life but it seems that if I use my ccw, I will expect to pay dearly and worst of all, the people around me suffer financially from my actions.

I ask the forum to help me get my head around this.

[Bawanna]

You'd be a quitter if you decide to become a sheep. Exactly what the libs want you to do.

All the negatives you mentioned are rooted to two things. Lack of common sense in our society in recent times and LAWYERS.

As an example I use a piece I saw on the news last night about a lady (highly intoxicated) slipping and falling off a cruise ship. Her friend noticed her missing and alerted the captain who reasonably wanted to search the ship first before turning around and changing course.
They ultimately found here (a miracle) and got her back aboard.

Now the lady wants to sue the cruise line allegedly so this won't happen to anyone else. Common sense says how can the cruise line be responsible for her being so intoxicated that she somehow fell over a railing into the ocean.

They went all out and saved her life.

Now enter victims lawyer and victim will no doubt have some very serious cash to help console her and probably buy a lot more booze to boot.

Now picture the entrance of Judge bawanna. Case dismissed. Victims lawyer will serve 30 days for being a greedy maggot. Victim will attend 5 years worth of AA meetings at her own expense.

So in summary it doesn't matter if you shoot someone rightfully or spill hot coffee on your crotch, somebody (think LAWYER) is gonna try to make some money on it. The biggest part of any medical procedure is liability insurance, money up front to fight the LAWYERS when a patient wants to hang a doctor or hospital.

[getsome]

+1 What he said....I'll vote for you Uncle Bawann....Maybe you should change your avatar rank from Colonel to JUDGE...I like it!!!!

[Glock23]

If it is a truly justified shooting, there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

In a case like Zimmerman's, he may make it through criminal court ok... he shouldn't, but he might. Civil court should break him. Bottom line is he ACTIVELY PURSUED Trayvon. There was no imminent threat... only his suspicions, yet he chose to keep following... which led to the confrontation, shooting, etc.

[Bawanna]

There in lies the rub also. Enter interpretation as well as making a decision based on an anti gun media report.

He felt he was doing his job, was Travon up to no good? Probably.

Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle having lost sight of the model citizen when he was attacked. I base this on the reports that I saw so maybe mine aren't correct either.

Is Travon entitled to bust Zimmermans head on the sidewalk because he was pursuing him.

Remember in this case local law enforcement had no intention of filing any charges. It was only when the big name rabble rousers entered the scene that it became a big stink. The chief even took a leave because he didn't want any part of it.

[Glock23]

He felt he was doing his job, was Travon up to no good? Probably.

This is exactly my point. Did he see a gun? Was he attempting to stop a forcible felony in progress? Did Trayvon attack him out of the blue?

No, no, and no. Other than his suspicions about a black guy in a hoodie in a nice neighborhood, he had no reason to follow him. That is exactly the kind of bad decision that can screw you over in the end.

Don't make stupid decisions, and you should be fine.

[Bawanna]

I never considered watching over my neighbors house and property while they are away as a stupid decision myself. I of course would not shoot anyone for being on the property or being up to no good, but if they decide to confront me and or assault me, that might be the next option.

Malicious Mischief isn't a felony but I'm sure the homeowners like having somebody run people off thinking about doing it.

In this case the reverends, and even ovomit have turned it into such a circus that regardless of the outcome there will be rioting in the streets. Once again thanks to the media who portray poor misunderstood Travon as the victim, and Zimmerman as the over zealous storm trooper.

Consider that if they reversed the rolls it would be the same outcome. Zimmerman the noble volunteer community patrol killed by the rabble rousing gang banger ovomit look alike. Same results, same rioting in the streets.

And now back to the OPS is it worth it thread.

[TheTman]

Well if I seen this guy wandering around, and acting weird I'd keep an eye on him too. What good is having a neighborhood watch if you don't watch anyone?
17 year old Trayvon Martin, not the little cute 12 year old the media loves to show us. But as he looked just before the time of his death.
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/Trayvon17.jpg

[Longitude Zero]

In many states if the shooting is determined to be justified you have no worries about the bad guy suing you. If however you strike an innocent bystander IMHO I have zero sympathy for you and the consequences you should face.

So get a gun, practice like hell with it, get professional training and not just some bozo at the LGS. I mean a true professional trainer you have to travel to and costs significant sums of money.

[knkali]

You'd be a quitter if you decide to become a sheep. Exactly what the libs want you to do.


That got my **** together right there. Thanks Bawanna.

[Bawanna]

NO charge, glad your minds right.

[HarleyJack]

Well if I seen this guy wandering around, and acting weird I'd keep an eye on him too. What good is having a neighborhood watch if you don't watch anyone?
17 year old Trayvon Martin, not the little cute 12 year old the media loves to show us. But as he looked just before the time of his death.
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/Trayvon17.jpg

You do know that's not Travon Martin, right?

[jocko]

You'd be a quitter if you decide to become a sheep. Exactly what the libs want you to do.

All the negatives you mentioned are rooted to two things. Lack of common sense in our society in recent times and LAWYERS.

As an example I use a piece I saw on the news last night about a lady (highly intoxicated) slipping and falling off a cruise ship. Her friend noticed her missing and alerted the captain who reasonably wanted to search the ship first before turning around and changing course.
They ultimately found here (a miracle) and got her back aboard.

Now the lady wants to sue the cruise line allegedly so this won't happen to anyone else. Common sense says how can the cruise line be responsible for her being so intoxicated that she somehow fell over a railing into the ocean.

They went all out and saved her life.

Now enter victims lawyer and victim will no doubt have some very serious cash to help console her and probably buy a lot more booze to boot.

Now picture the entrance of Judge bawanna. Case dismissed. Victims lawyer will serve 30 days for being a greedy maggot. Victim will attend 5 years worth of AA meetings at her own expense.

So in summary it doesn't matter if you shoot someone rightfully or spill hot coffee on your crotch, somebody (think LAWYER) is gonna try to make some money on it. The biggest part of any medical procedure is liability insurance, money up front to fight the LAWYERS when a patient wants to hang a doctor or hospital.

and the sad thing is that carival will opt to settle out of court for what this stupid drunken ass b!tch did. they should have left her drown and then this wouldnot happen and we could balme the hubby for throwing her over board.they also outta hang the lawyers who take this case for her to. Bottom feeders. no less:amflag:

[TheTman]

Who is it HarleyJack? I'd not posted if I didn't think it was him. It looked a lot like the recent pics of him on his Facebook account before they took it down.

[AIRret]

Bawanna, I'm sooooo proud of you cuber hubby!! You argued the CCW philosophy perfectly!!
Knkili, I think it comes down to this. You have to decide what you can live with. What if you don't carry and a love one looses their life when you could have made a difference.
For me that would be tougher than loosing everything I own. Can't take it with you.
On the other side you need to be careful of where you go and what you do. Do your best not to find trouble.

[deadeye]

I will avoid trouble whether I am carrying or not. The only way I would draw my gun is if my or especially any of my family were threatened. Would hope the gun would scare the BG off. I am too old to fight or run very fast so it would have to be a life threatening situation. I have had the training so hope I would remember it.
If the choices were 1). Hospital. 2). Death or 3). Trouble. I would take my chances with 3. I know exactly what you are saying and had to give it a lot of thought. Given the above chances and the slight chance I will ever have to draw, I will carry.

[ORSalesRep]

There in lies the rub also. Enter interpretation as well as making a decision based on an anti gun media report.

He felt he was doing his job, was Travon up to no good? Probably.

Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle having lost sight of the model citizen when he was attacked. I base this on the reports that I saw so maybe mine aren't correct either.

Is Travon entitled to bust Zimmermans head on the sidewalk because he was pursuing him.

Remember in this case local law enforcement had no intention of filing any charges. It was only when the big name rabble rousers entered the scene that it became a big stink. The chief even took a leave because he didn't want any part of it.

I agree with this assessment. Local law enforcement was not going to press charges and found the evidence to support it was a self defence shooting. If both parties had been the same color, this would have ended there.

[ORSalesRep]

Well if I seen this guy wandering around, and acting weird I'd keep an eye on him too. What good is having a neighborhood watch if you don't watch anyone?
17 year old Trayvon Martin, not the little cute 12 year old the media loves to show us. But as he looked just before the time of his death.
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/Trayvon17.jpg

100% agree! Although, that pic is not Treyvon

[ORSalesRep]

Bawanna, I'm sooooo proud of you cuber hubby!! You argued the CCW philosophy perfectly!!
Knkili, I think it comes down to this. You have to decide what you can live with. What if you don't carry and a love one looses their life when you could have made a difference.
For me that would be tougher than loosing everything I own. Can't take it with you.
On the other side you need to be careful of where you go and what you do. Do your best not to find trouble.

Excellent perspective! I could not agree more. If I think I could have saved the lives of one of my 5 year old twin daughters or my wife, being financially ruined is a no brainer for me.

[AIRret]

ORSalesRep, that is a choice we all have to make.
WE! have to have that perspective and keep that in mind ALL the time.
It's tough! AND it was a tough and well thought out decision to carry by me and my husband!! But it's not a choice either one of us regret, and we carry whenever we can!!
Even when it is not convenient! We are dedicated and constantly try to improve our training. That's one reason we are taking the Mag-40 class this June.

[ltxi]

After reading Getsome's post on another thread and others like it. I am going through a moment of weakness. Is it worth carrying a cw? If I use it and it is justified, my life and my family's will be financially ruined. If it wasnt a good shoot, I am ruined. I value my life but it seems that if I use my ccw, I will expect to pay dearly and worst of all, the people around me suffer financially from my actions.

I ask the forum to help me get my head around this.

Just in case you're still thinking it over....what Bawanna said!

Can't believe he said that. He never says anything really profound no more. Musta been the mid-day Scotch. :cool:

[Bawanna]

Actually it shouldn't be tough. It's natural human instinct like a momma bear protecting it's cubs. The powers that be will try to instill in us that this is outdated and they will provide all your safety needs. I of course cry BS on that as I'm sure most of us do.

Since the cave man with his club anybody, man or woman who deserves to be called a human will defend those in need. Those on the bad end of injustice.

Anyone who would just walk on by when someone needs help, be it a rape victim, a guy getting beat by gang bangers or someone needing to be pulled off the subway tracks is a pathetic waste of human kind to me.

Sorry to be so vague and unable to express my true feelings.

[jocko]

good point bawanna, so I can takeit then that u would be right there pulling obummer back off fthe tracks. Ur a true american hero.

[Bawanna]

Absolutely and feeling awful that I just got done greasing up all my guns and my hands were just too slippery to do anything. But I got great video of it on my cell phone.

[Bawanna]

Just in case you're still thinking it over....what Bawanna said!

Can't believe he said that. He never says anything really profound no more. Musta been the mid-day Scotch. :cool:

Getting low on profound huh? I've felt of late that I was losing my profoundness. I'll try to step it up some.

[Barth]

Absolutely and feeling awful that I just got done greasing up all my guns and my hands were just too slippery to do anything. But I got great video of it on my cell phone.

"I hear the train a comin'
It's rollin' 'round the bend,
And I ain't seen the sunshine,
Since, I don't know when..."

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1254581!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/donohue4n-4-web.jpg

[ltxi]

................

Since the cave man with his club anybody, man or woman who deserves to be called a human will defend those in need. Those on the bad end of injustice.

Anyone who would just walk on by when someone needs help, be it a rape victim, a guy getting beat by gang bangers or someone needing to be pulled off the subway tracks is a pathetic waste of human kind to me.

Sorry to be so vague and unable to express my true feelings.

Unless it's a gang banger or akin scum, I'm x 3.65 on this one. And once or twice my helpful attitude gave me the opportunity to demise someone who really needed demising and I didn't even get in too much trouble. Heart warming.

Caution.....unless you're old and/or are willing to deal with after, do not try this outside of home.

[OldLincoln]

This sounds callous and cold, but if the event going down doesn't involve you or family then let it go. Had the guy in the store not shot, the store would have been robbed and he was a witness. If you are in a mall and somebody is getting mugged take pictures. If eating in a restaurant and the guy doesn't point his gun around get a description.

In any scenario if the bad guy points a gun at you or actually shoots anybody take the sucker down.

The first paragraph can be suspect in the DA's office if the Mayor or DA is anti-CCW. The second is beyond reproach as long as you don't miss and hit another innocent. Also be aware that no matter how clean and how many lives you save you will have to pay out of your pocket for any collateral damage such as plate glass windows shot by your gun. Store insurance is obligated to pass the cost to the cause and your insurance won't cover shooting related costs.

I carry only to protect me and mine and I'll do that regardless of cost. The other folks will have to face the consequence of not being armed no matter how fast they dial 911.

[ltxi]

This sounds callous and cold, but if the event going down doesn't involve you or family then let it go. ......................I carry only to protect me and mine and I'll do that regardless of cost. The other folks will have to face the consequence of not being armed no matter how fast they dial 911.

We part ways here, my friend. Too much to serve and protect left in me I'd guess.

[Jeremiah/Az]

If that is not martin in that picture, who is it? I have seen pictures of martin besides the one we keep seein', when he was 12. It sure looks a lot like him, but I don't remember the tattoos.

[Bawanna]

I looked all over and I could not find a more recent picture of him. Mostly the one in the hoody, one when he was about 4, only one I found with his hat on backwards flipping the bird in true gangsta fashion.

Apparently the media at work.

[yqtszhj]

This sounds callous and cold, but if the event going down doesn't involve you or family then let it go. Had the guy in the store not shot, the store would have been robbed and he was a witness. If you are in a mall and somebody is getting mugged take pictures. If eating in a restaurant and the guy doesn't point his gun around get a description.

In any scenario if the bad guy points a gun at you or actually shoots anybody take the sucker down.

The first paragraph can be suspect in the DA's office if the Mayor or DA is anti-CCW. The second is beyond reproach as long as you don't miss and hit another innocent. Also be aware that no matter how clean and how many lives you save you will have to pay out of your pocket for any collateral damage such as plate glass windows shot by your gun. Store insurance is obligated to pass the cost to the cause and your insurance won't cover shooting related costs.

I carry only to protect me and mine and I'll do that regardless of cost. The other folks will have to face the consequence of not being armed no matter how fast they dial 911.

Very wise statements.

In my state you are straight out justified if you or your family are facing death or great bodily harm. If it's someone else, there are a lot of places where you better not get involved.

[tv_racin_fan]

If it is a truly justified shooting, there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

In a case like Zimmerman's, he may make it through criminal court ok... he shouldn't, but he might. Civil court should break him. Bottom line is he ACTIVELY PURSUED Trayvon. There was no imminent threat... only his suspicions, yet he chose to keep following... which led to the confrontation, shooting, etc.

pursue:

To follow in an effort to overtake or capture;

I do not believe that he was actively pursuing anything, he was following him in order to give the information of where the guy went to the police (according to the 911 call I heard).

"Chose to keep following" according to who sir? You have some witness that can prove that one?


According to what I heard on that tape he sounded as if he was breathing hard. The operator asked if he was following Trayvon and when he said yes the operator told him we do not need you to do that, it sure sounded to me like his breathing returned more to normal as if he stopped running or jogging or whatever pace he was doing. That says to me that he stopped following Trayvon.

There was an article that showed what appeared to be a timeline of events and it sure seemed to show that Zimmerman was returning to his auto when he was confronted by Trayvon.

Yeah he should be ruined...

[JFootin]

...Zimmerman was returning to his auto when he was confronted by Trayvon.Yes, Z was returning to his car. Actually, he was attacked by Trayvon and Trayvon was telling him he was going to kill him.

[Popeye]

Zimmerman was a cop wanna be fool. He stuck his nose in where it didn't belong in the first place. If he saw a problem he should have let the cops handle it. If he would have done that, he wouldn't be in the world crap he's into today. I live in a Castle Doctrine and stand your ground state of Pa. My permit says for SD. Which means in self defense, it does not make me a crime fighter with permission to use my gun how I see fit. The using of my pistol will always be a last resort kind of thing when all else fails. Even then there is going to be some scum bag lawyer who is going to try to make me look like the bad guy. I know and except this, but it's more than just a saying that I'd rather be judged by 12 then a member of my family or myself carried by 6. I'll take my chances with the 12 because I sure couldn't live with myself if I could have prevented the outcome and didn't out of fear of unknown.

[Glock23]

pursue:

To follow in an effort to overtake or capture;

I do not believe that he was actively pursuing anything, he was following him in order to give the information of where the guy went to the police (according to the 911 call I heard).

"Chose to keep following" according to who sir? You have some witness that can prove that one?


According to what I heard on that tape he sounded as if he was breathing hard. The operator asked if he was following Trayvon and when he said yes the operator told him we do not need you to do that, it sure sounded to me like his breathing returned more to normal as if he stopped running or jogging or whatever pace he was doing. That says to me that he stopped following Trayvon.

There was an article that showed what appeared to be a timeline of events and it sure seemed to show that Zimmerman was returning to his auto when he was confronted by Trayvon.

Yeah he should be ruined...

So Zimmerman is patrolling in his truck and he sees a very suspicious black kid walking in the rain, looking like he's up to no good and looks like he's on drugs or something. Zimmerman's words, not mine.

At just over 2 minutes into the call is when he says that Trayvon took off running. You then hear Zimmerman get out of the truck and chase him. Fifteen seconds later the dispatcher tells him not to follow.

So you're out in the rain, you don't know where the guy went, and you've been told to stop following. Does he get back in his truck, which is 15 seconds away, and wait for the cops? No. That call lasted for another 2 minutes, during which time the attack hadn't happened yet.

If I'm walking alone in the rain at night and someone in a truck starts following me, I'd probably run too.

I'm not a cop or a lawyer, but I do have a degree in Criminal Justice, and we talked about scenarios almost exactly like this in school. As soon as Zimmerman got out and chased him, he became the aggressor, and self defense went right out the window. Not saying that's how the jury will see it, but that's what it is.

[CJB]

The alternative. Carry one cartridge. When danger arises, use it on yourself. At least you dont give the bg the satisfaction of making ypu suffer.

[HarleyJack]

Who is it HarleyJack? I'd not posted if I didn't think it was him. It looked a lot like the recent pics of him on his Facebook account before they took it down.

Jayceon Terrell Taylor, a rap singer.

[knkali]

The alternative. Carry one cartridge. When danger arises, use it on yourself. At least you dont give the bg the satisfaction of making ypu suffer.

That post says a lot. Thank you for it. Bawanna got my **** together and this post screwed my lid down tight.

Thank you

[OldLincoln]

As kind of a footnote, I really recommend you review scenarios (http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/carry-defensive-scenarios/) asked in seriousness and participated in by serious minded people. It was part of my initial education on how to deal with complex situations. I didn't arrive at my conclusions lightly. In the end only you can decide for yourself but it helps if you have guidelines already in place. Your original question is one I asked myself early on and it's one every carrier should ask.

[TheTman]

This has been argued to death, all over the internet. The courts will sort it out and deliver a verdict after the testimonies are presented. The investigation should show how the shooting took place. All our arguing about is doing little but creating animosity between members who feel one way, and those who feel another way. Let the courts do their job and let us quit speculating and arguing about it. None of us were there, so none of us know anything except what we've read or saw on tv.
All I know is the little 12 year old Trayvon they keep showing us, does not resemble a 195 lb, 6 foot tall 17 year old. Obvious MSM attempts to manipulate our attitudes on the matter. I also know the parents settled out of court for over a Million $$$ with the Community Homeowners Association, so I question how much of this is driven by potential monetary gain by the parents. Without an arrest, they would not have been able to take Z to civil court to try and squeeze more money out of him. Hence the pressure to file charges in the matter, granted by an AG, who reportedly has political ambitions. Often charges are filed a level or two above what they should be, in an attempt to plea bargain down to a more reasonable charge. A tactic that is used all over the country.

[Popeye]

Tman I can assure you I feel no animosity towards anyone as they are entitled to there opinions. Like I've said it the past this is a very sad story of two knuckle heads that ran across each others past one night. Now one is dead and the other will more than likely go to jail. What a waste of two young lives.

[knkali]

I hope Bawanna will have a sub forum this summer devoted to the case. It is important to CCwers and we can air our opinions about stuff as it comes out in court.

[Bawanna]

Not me, I tossed my brushes, I'm not painting anymore pictures.

I'm cutting back on my profiling and trying to focus on nothing but Profound post.

I just don't want to let Itxi down, makes me feel bad.

[jocko]

Tman I can assure you I feel no animosity towards anyone as they are entitled to there opinions. Like I've said it the past this is a very sad story of two knuckle heads that ran across each others past one night. Now one is dead and the other will more than likely go to jail. What a waste of two young lives.

it is a sadstory, my 21centsis thathe will notgo to jail. Had the chargedhim with mansalughter, they might have got the job done but 2nddegreemurder,I just don'
t seeit happeing. No doubt some people should not have a gun..:Amflag2:

[knkali]

Not me, I tossed my brushes, I'm not painting anymore pictures.

I'm cutting back on my profiling and trying to focus on nothing but Profound post.

I just don't want to let Itxi down, makes me feel bad.

WTF??? Not digg'n this.

[Bawanna]

WTF??? Not digg'n this.

It's all part of my new PC Positive Reinforcement Non Tinfoil Hat look.

Don't worry I'll PM ya the straight scoop from time to time so you really know what the hell is going on.

Right now I gotta go take a Hillary and cleanse my ovomit.

Lord forgive me, I slipped on that one and all the starving pigmies in Chicago.

[knkali]

It's all part of my new PC Positive Reinforcement Non Tinfoil Hat look.

Don't worry I'll PM ya the straight scoop from time to time so you really know what the hell is going on.

Right now I gotta go take a Hillary and cleanse my ovomit.

Lord forgive me, I slipped on that one and all the starving pigmies in Chicago.

Ok I'm better now

[Tyme49]

FWIW, I have spent countless hours 'ruminating' over the pro's and con's of concealed carry.

Early on I concluded that any/all display of a weapon during a bad situation ...

... will more than likely increase the level of violence even further.

At the same time, I realize that I would just hate to 'go down' without a fight.
__________________________________________

So, for me personally, my Kahr (S&W, or SIG) gives me one final chance to live ...

... in what would otherwise be a hopeless (and helpless) situation ...

... and I train myself with a resolve that insures my last resort will NOT be wasted!
__________________________________________

The gun stays concealed right up to the point where ALL other alternatives are exhausted ...

... and, then, to save my life (or others), I absolutely WILL use it ... to good effect!

[knkali]

FWIW, I have spent countless hours 'ruminating' over the pro's and con's of concealed carry.

Early on I concluded that any/all display of a weapon during a bad situation ...

... will more than likely increase the level of violence even further.



At the same time, I realize that I would just hate to 'go down' without a fight.
__________________________________________

So, for me personally, my Kahr (S&W, or SIG) gives me one final chance to live ...

... in what would otherwise be a hopeless (and helpless) situation ...

... and I train myself with a resolve that insures my last resort will NOT be wasted!
__________________________________________



The gun stays concealed right up to the point where ALL other alternatives are exhausted ...

... and, then, to save my life (or others), I absolutely WILL use it ... to good effect!




Your post leads one to believe that you will have time to determine if gun play is necessary. Usually attacks are swift and brutal. Its either on or its off. The attacks I reviewed seemed like then went from 0 to 100 in a blink of an eye.

[muggsy]

It's far better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it. It's also better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. That's all of the convincing I've ever needed. Never trust anyone who doesn't trust you to own a gun. All words to live by.

[Tyme49]

Your post leads one to believe that you will have time to determine if gun play is necessary. Usually attacks are swift and brutal. Its either on or its off. The attacks I reviewed seemed like then went from 0 to 100 in a blink of an eye.

Yeah, I've thought about THAT TOO! And, again, I try to maintain sufficient 'situational awareness" to see it coming.

The miscreants that perpetrate these attacks (generally) size up their victims ahead of time. Since we're all potential targets (CCW-holder or NOT), we ALL must continually be on the lookout for subtle tip-offs that, in turn, should raise our alert level to yellow - or RED!

FYI, I DID manage to de-escalate a bad situation awhile back simply through eye-contact and a firm demeanor. The BG's prefer a soft-touch with a quick escape. If they sense that one or the either won't happen, they'll generally back down.

Regardless, keep checking their hands and if - IF! - they produce a weapon, be prepared to defend your life with extreme prejudice. Like a LEO friend of mine used to say, "Do whatever you have to do to stop the attack and defend your life! ... If the BG happens to die in the process, it's strictly between him and his maker."