P380 second trip to the range

[dsk]

As I said before the first time I tried my new P380 I fired 200 rounds, and during that time I had a couple of FTRTB issues as well as a couple failures to reset. Today went back to the range with 100 rounds of FMJ (Independence & S&B), 20 rounds of PMC Starfire JHP and some Winchester Ranger JHP. The first box of ammo (Independence) fired just fine with just one stovepipe near the end. I then switched to the Starfire, and the P380 just didn't like that stuff at all. The bullet repeatedly stopped on the bullet ramp and refused to go up into the chamber. After a little struggling I managed to fire all of it, then switched to the S&B. I then had a couple of strange instances where the slide stuck and refused to retract unless the trigger was already pulled. The pistol was empty each time as the slide hadn't locked back after the last shot, but I later determined it was my thumb that was at fault for that. However the stuck slide concerned me, and I had to jack the slide back and forth a few times before it limbered up again. I took the pistol apart but didn't see anything wrong, so I reassembled it and continued shooting. The pistol fired the rest of the ammo without incident.

It's the same sort of thing I discovered the first time I shot it, the pistol ran great for the first box of ammo but then started having issues as soon as it began to get dirty. I found a lot of unburned powder inside during post-range inspection, and given the tight tolerances I can say that this pistol won't tolerate anything between the moving parts. That's probably what bound up the slide, either a piece of shaved brass or unburned powder granules. I'm of the opinion that there's really nothing wrong with my pistol that can or needs to be fixed, but it does need to be kept squeaky-clean and fed the right ammo. BTW I ran the pistol with the new set of springs I bought from Midway. On post-range inspection I compared them to the original springs and they had collapsed to the same length.

Oh, and BTW I also shot 50 rounds of .32ACP PPU FMJ out of my Kel-Tec P32 just as a control. This was my previous deep concealment gun prior to buying the Kahr, and it's normally 100% reliable. But not today. In just 50 rounds I had two double-feeds and the takedown pin nearly fell out, locking up the pistol. So it just goes to show, with mouseguns you really can't always be sure they're going to work!

[Cokeman]

You've just forgot how to handle a gun. ;)

[dsk]

Either that or the pistols just forgot how to work. ;)

I took the P380 apart last night and gave it a really good cleaning and inspection, and I didn't find anything wrong that would explain the binding slide. Once cleaned and lubed it cycled by hand just fine. This weekend I may go through it again and do a proper fluff n' buff of the slide rails and breech face, then put yet another $50 worth of ammo through it to test it out. It really needs to be able to reliably fire more than one box of ammo at a time before choking.

[kerby9mm]

After reading posts on the p380 for the last 2 years it's always the ammo or the guns dirty or the way the gun is held or the SS spring. Doesn't anybody think its the gun? I like my mk40 & mk9 but not the p380 based solely on the reliability posts. I could not tolerate a gun that didn't function properly but that's just me.

[dsk]

You bring up an excellent point, but here's the problem. If you read about the other .380 mouseguns on other boards you'll find a host of issues with those as well. Kel-Tecs fall apart, Rugers jam, Diamondbacks fail to fire..... the truth is that these little pistols pay a steep price for being engineered to shoehorn a .380ACP round into something nearly the size of the .22/.25 caliber vest-pocket autos of old. In the old days .380ACP meant a pistol as big as a Walther PPK or Colt Model M, and the truth is if you want a reliable pocket auto that will eat just about anything and not be sensitive to the way it's treated then you really can't go smaller than a Colt Mustang or SIG P238. That's why I said in another thread that I kinda wish Kahr would go the other way and make a slightly longer P380, something with more working distances in the action that would make it less tempermental. I've also got a .380 Model M that's unfailingly reliable, but it's a bit too long and heavy for a summer carry gun and as I just found out I really can't count on my .32 Kel-Tec either. The Kahr is the right size and weight, and the marvelous trigger, sights, and feel of the frame makes it shoot like a larger pistol. I just want to see (as do many of us) if I can fix the flaws that keep it from being as dependable as a larger pistol.

[yqtszhj]

My LCP has been perfect. only problem with it was sorry independence ammo and me not cleaning/lubing it one time.

Except for those 2 occasions it has never missed a beat, even with cheap import indonesian ammo.

Now the P380 I can't speak to.

[dsk]

I shot both the P380 and the Kel-Tec P32 again tonight, but only 50 rounds each. The P380 ate everything without a hitch, but the P32 had several misfires. I blame the latter mostly on the ammo (Herter's FMJ), but I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of malfunctions with these small pistols can be traced to the poor QC of many brands of factory ammo. My P380 has already shown that it likes the Independence brand. It also didn't foul up the inside of the pistol all that much, while the S&B seems really dirty and can cause it to malfunction after a short time.

[Engineer88]

I am seriously thinking about picking up a P380 as I love my CM9 and it has been flawless in several hundred rounds now. I too have a Keltec P32 (the chrome model) and I will only buy chrome models, the slickness of the chrome and the rust resistance (I live in Florida) make it reliable. Mine has been caked with pocket lint for up to 6 months without cleaning and ran like a top at the range.

I am on the fence about the P380 still and may just get a CW or CM45 instead. Maybe I will wait and see if they stealth fix the P380 via the CW380 and just get one of those. I will say this, I absolutely adore my CM9 and carry it every day and it earned itself a Crimson Trace laser, maybe I just need a CW9, hahaha! These things are addicting!

[dsk]

I took mine apart for cleaning last weekend, only this time I disassembled the slide as well (not an easy task, BTW). There were still some small metal shavings inside there, even though I had flushed out the assembled slide with brake cleaner at least a couple of times previously. Even worse, there is a small hole where a machined cut in the extractor recess joins up with the striker channel, and the edges of that hole were lined with metal slag. I had to take a small needle file and clean it all off, leaving a neat hole w/o any slag to potentially break loose and interfere with the striker. This lack of post-machining cleanup in an area where the average user is never going to find it was a bit disturbing to me, epecially on a $600 pistol.

[AB1968]

I love my p380 the only issue I have with it is if I don't keep my thumb off to the side it tends to lock the slide back once in a while.

[jocko]

seemsmany of themouse guns are just picky. Kahr is not exempt either. We all seem towant SMALLbut we want BIG GUN performance and reliability. Just not sure were gonna get that.Just sayin

[dsk]

I consider my P380 reliable enough for carry as long as it stays clean. I'm just disappointed that they don't tend to little details like cleaning the parts properly after machining and making sure no burrs or slag remains. On a full-sized 5" 1911 a small burr or foreign matter won't cause the pistol to stop working, but on a tiny pocket pistol it will.

[CougarRed]

I rented a Kahr P380 at the range to compare to my new LCP. The Kahr P380 ran flawlessly with WWB for 50 rounds. The brand new LCP ran flawless with WWB for 100 rounds.

I bought the LCP over the P380 for the following reasons:

1. The Gen 2 LCP released late in 2012 has an improved trigger and sights over the original LCP. I am almost positive Ruger made these changes because Kahr is supposed to release the CW380 at the LCP price point. Producer competition is good for consumers!

2. Both models have been out several years, so I scoured the internet looking for anecdotal reliability reports. I would have thought that the bugs have been worked out. I found significantly more anecdotal reliability issues with the Kahr than the LCP. The only explanation I could think of is that the LCP design is essentially an improved P3AT design, and so they've had a lot more time to figure out what works and what doesn't than Kahr has with the P380. I was also freaked out a little that Kahr has not released the CW380 yet. It was supposed to come out months ago. I wondered if they were having reliability issues. For a defensive weapon, reliability is critical, and I went with the older design that seemed to have fewer issues.

3. While all the reports suggest the Kahr has a softer recoil, lots of reviewers noted the LCP was tamed with an after market Hogue grip combined with an extra power recoil spring (combined cost $20).

4. Given 1, 2 and 3 above, I did not think the slightly better Kahr trigger and the last round slide lock back were worth the extra $200 for the P380 compared to the LCP.

And this is coming from a Kahr P9 Covert owner/carrier. In the past I had (and loved) a K9 Elite. I love Kahr, and never had a bad experience with them.

Anyway, here is my initial range report of the LCP (http://rugerpistolforums.com/forums/general-lcp-discussion/18530-lcp-first-trip-range.html) with a couple of pics of groupings.

[RRP]

Good range report and review.

I considered buying an LCP. They were the rage, a few years ago. I really wanted one. I changed my mind after shooting one. I didn't like the trigger, so I opted for the P380. That was the old LCP. I, too, would have been torn with the improved trigger of the latest LCP model.

Your selection process was thoughtful and deliberative. I'm guessing you're the first-born child in your family, and probably make your living as an engineer. No hasty, shoot-from-the-hip, impulse purchase here. Due diligence is good.

[CougarRed]

I'm guessing you're the first-born child in your family.

Nailed it

[CougarRed]

I consider my P380 reliable enough for carry as long as it stays clean..

I love the fact that you function test the gun limpwristed. However, if a P380 could not go 50 rounds without failing after the 200-round break in period, many would not carry the gun. They would send it back to Kahr or find a gunsmith They trust to take a look at it.