Second Hand PM9 First Trip to Range

[Smity79]

Picked up a PM9. 5 extra mags, a Crimson Trace, 2 good quality IWB holsters, tritium sights. All for for $100 less than a base model new in the LGS. What's not to like?

Got to the range. Despite the fact that this is a 9mm and not much bigger than an LCP, it's easier to shoot than an LCP. Sights were on target. I can hit somewhere in the scoring area on an IPSC target at 25 yds out of the box. No FTFires in 100 rounds of cheap FMJ ammo.

Now the bad news. Most of the mags had FTFeeds first time through. I am thinking, darn, I've heard bad things about Kahr mags, I can never trust this gun. I had loaded all the mags with a generic Butler Creek 9mm to 45 cal LULA loader and things didn't sit right. If I hand load the mags, everything, even the 7 rounder and 10 round Promag, fed perfectly.

I went through the post below and it seems like these things work for other people? I use this thing for my 40 cal and it works great. Am I doing something wrong with the Kahr mags? it's very hard to use with single stacks. Hard to get straight.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16197&highlight=speed+loader

Can anyone recommend a single stack 9mm specific loader? Or tell me what I am doing wrong? I want to put lots of rounds through this gun. My fingers thank you in advance.

BTW, I love the trigger for a mouse gun.

[wyntrout]

Welcome to the forum, Smitty! I'll post my list of info and links after this.:)

The MagUPLULA is just about the best for loading any pistol mags but you have to make sure that each round is fully to the rear as you let the body of the loader rise. I keep my left thumb on the nose of the bullet to keep it to the rear. The 9mm cartridges have tapered cases and easily cause feed problems if not fully to the rear of the magazine. That and not holding the pistol firmly enough for chambering a round and firing allows the PISTOL to move and uses up some of the energy that these little compact pistols need . The compact Kahr doesn't have a lot of mass and length in the slide to power a round up the ramp and into the chamber without you holding it firmly... and starting with the rounds fully to the rear in the magazine.

Then there is some preparation you can do with the magazines. I take all of my new mags apart and make sure that a free end of the spring is to the front of the follower so that the follower gets maximum lift. I degrease the inside of the mag tube by forcing wadded paper towels or rags through it, lightly sand all of the edges and skirts of the followers, lightly sand with fine sandpaper the feed lips to remove any burrs, then lightly oil the spring before reassembling the magazines. There are other things that you can do with the followers, but I don't always find them necessary.

The take down video for your pistol is very helpful and points out things to watch for. It's a big supplement to the manual and more easily understood with respect to insertion of the so-important slide lock pin and spring.

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by K a h r Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.

First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can view it and/or download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

Please watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA)
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zXmSCnIOaUk#t=0s)
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp
There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums.

A very handy one is the Kahr Lubrication Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750
Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.

Another great resource for information on Kahrs... Archives of Magazine and Internet Reviews for Kahr pistols by industry experts. They test these pistols and report on their views and the ammo they tested in it. This is a good way to find ammo that might fit your needs along with accuracy and feeding in the pistol... usually from a rest with velocity and energy, as well as penetration and expansion sometimes... very informational.

http://www.kahr.com/product-reviews.asp

Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

One very important bit of advice: Hold the Kahr pistol firmly when firing OR CHAMBERING a round. These compact pistols need all of the force they can get from the slide to get a round into the chamber successfully. If you don't hold the pistol firmly, part of the needed momentum is transferred to MOVING THE PISTOL and the top round will DIVE and jam into the right side of the feed ramp. The weak hand, over hand rack method gives the best grip and a firm rack will give you the best chance at chambering a round.

Use the weak hand fingers over the slide(clear of the ejection port), thumb along the slide and pointing to the rear. Use the gun hand to simultaneously firmly push the gun as you give a vigorous rack with the weak hand and cleanly release the slide as it reaches the rear limit and is "snatched" from the weak hand. This approximates a real rack from firing and beats the slide release method WHEN executed properly. Much more strength can be exerted when this is done closer to the body.

Here's a video on that. The first part is what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hjLbFOw8sow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hjLbFOw8sow)

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


Wynn:)
Aka wyntrout

PS: I keep thinking of stuff to add and help new members... and am trying to cover most of the popular subjects. Yes, it's repetitious to many, but possibly not to all new members. This approach is easier than having to look up every tidbit for each new member or question that arises. :)

[jocko]

Picked up a PM9. 5 extra mags, a Crimson Trace, 2 good quality IWB holsters, tritium sights. All for for $100 less than a base model new in the LGS. What's not to like?

Got to the range. Despite the fact that this is a 9mm and not much bigger than an LCP, it's easier to shoot than an LCP. Sights were on target. I can hit somewhere in the scoring area on an IPSC target at 25 yds out of the box. No FTFires in 100 rounds of cheap FMJ ammo.

Now the bad news. Most of the mags had FTFeeds first time through. I am thinking, darn, I've heard bad things about Kahr mags, I can never trust this gun. I had loaded all the mags with a generic Butler Creek 9mm to 45 cal LULA loader and things didn't sit right. If I hand load the mags, everything, even the 7 rounder and 10 round Promag, fed perfectly.

I went through the post below and it seems like these things work for other people? I use this thing for my 40 cal and it works great. Am I doing something wrong with the Kahr mags? it's very hard to use with single stacks. Hard to get straight.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16197&highlight=speed+loader

Can anyone recommend a single stack 9mm specific loader? Or tell me what I am doing wrong? I want to put lots of rounds through this gun. My fingers thank you in advance.

BTW, I love the trigger for a mouse gun.

new one on me. Never heard of complaints on the uplula. If uhave issues, then why not just load the magazines for range use with 5 rounds our less to save the thumbsw etc, and just load for for defense carry. Ur certainly don sumpin not right and maybe alittle more time witht he gun and mags and loader it andu wll sort it out. I just don't fool witht he uplula for my kahrs, I just load themags alittle short and go with it for range use. U bought a dandy kahr, trust me on that.:Amflag2:

[zaman]

I use the same loader for my PM9 mags all the time with no problems. Are you tapping the mag to seat the bullets properly? That's the all I can think of.

[Tinman507]

Gosh, I've never had an issue with my UpLula loader. It sure saves the thumbs. Are you tapping the primer side of the mag on the table after loading? It's force of habit for me.
Dumb question....are the springs in correctly? Followers unbroken? Mags stripped down and cleaned?

[kerby9mm]

I always tap the mag in my hand to make sure all rounds are to thr back of the mag. I don't own the upula but I also pump my own gas. If the mags were 17 or 19 rounds but not for 6 or 7.

[Smity79]

Thanks Wyntrout. It was clearly a mag loading issue. The feed jammed and no amount of "rap and rack" led to bang. The rounds were nose down in the mag. It was always on the first or second round. I am pretty sure I am not limp wristing, because once I went to hand loading, all of the mags worked just fine even when single handing with "weak" hand.

Is the MagUPLula very different from the Butler Creek loader? I'd hate to spend $40 more on something that's no difference.

Any hints on keeping the mag straight in the loader or how to load mags with the Pierce pinky extension on them? Really tough to get last 2 rounds in when I can't push down firmly on a flat surface.

[wyntrout]

I usually put a piece of that rubbery anti-skid stuff on the tabel and if you have the pinky extensions, you can put the anti-skid on the edge of the table or counter so that the extension can hang over the edge. I just align my mags... single-stack or double stack... mags with the front of the follower towards me and push down the LULA until it depresses the follower as far as possible, then push the cartridge into the mag as far back as it will go. Then I keep my left thumb on the nose of the top cartridge until I push it down and insert the next round to the rear. If you don't hold the round to the rear, it can move forward a bit.

When I finish a mag, I push the top round to the rear and then whack the back of the mag once, hard against my palm. I don't advise using the table or using more than one good whack... you can get the rounds bouncing back on a hard surface, while your hand absorbs the rebound motion. I've seen guys do a lighter smackity-smack... multiple lighter whacks and this doesn't really settle the rounds to the rear as one good whack does. It's about inertia... and one good whack moves them to the rear... while multiple lighter ones can move them back and forth, leaving them wherever instead of to the rear.

If the top round is not fully to the rear, it can nose over even with a good rack. I carry mag + 1. I chamber a round from slide lock with a good grip( or a proper over-hand rack), drop the mag and top it off with more more round, making sure it's all the way to the rear. I should be able to get at least two good shots without any "dives".

From my helpful hints:


One very important bit of advice: Hold the Kahr pistol firmly when firing OR CHAMBERING a round. These compact pistols need all of the force they can get from the slide to get a round into the chamber successfully. If you don't hold the pistol firmly, part of the needed momentum is transferred to MOVING THE PISTOL and the top round will DIVE and jam into the right side of the feed ramp. The weak hand, over hand rack method gives the best grip and a firm rack will give you the best chance at chambering a round.

Use the weak hand fingers over the slide(clear of the ejection port), thumb along the slide and pointing to the rear. Use the gun hand to simultaneously firmly push the gun as you give a vigorous rack with the weak hand and cleanly release the slide as it reaches the rear limit and is "snatched" from the weak hand. This approximates a real rack from firing and beats the slide release method WHEN executed properly. Much more strength can be exerted when this is done closer to the body.

Here's a video on that. The first part is what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hjLbFOw8sow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hjLbFOw8sow)

Wynn:)

[jocko]

Thanks Wyntrout. It was clearly a mag loading issue. The feed jammed and no amount of "rap and rack" led to bang. The rounds were nose down in the mag. It was always on the first or second round. I am pretty sure I am not limp wristing, because once I went to hand loading, all of the mags worked just fine even when single handing with "weak" hand.

Is the MagUPLula very different from the Butler Creek loader? I'd hate to spend $40 more on something that's no difference.

Any hints on keeping the mag straight in the loader or how to load mags with the Pierce pinky extension on them? Really tough to get last 2 rounds in when I can't push down firmly on a flat surface.

first or second round. . I wold definitely check out the possability of the magazine follower starting to grb on the mag release button. It willhappen right in that round area of every magazine if this is truly happening. takes 5 minutes to check out, takes 5 minutes to correct. see the propper prepping thread and read how to check for it. the gun can't really count, so at round one/two, most all the time is an indication to me anyways that somethig is not right with that magazine.:Amflag2: