Kahr vs. Kimber

[hsart]

Someone mentioned to me that they thought some of the Kimber carry guns were superior to the Kahr PMs but they did not speak with any detail. Anyone here have both who can shed light on the pro and cons, differences, etc.

[Ol'coot]

IMHO opinion that is like comparing apples and oranges, Kimber makes a fine weapon but they are single action only, no polymer lowers, much heavier . I do not own one but one of my shooting buddies has several and I have shot them quite a bit. If I were in the market for a excellent 1911 fire arm I would consider there guns but I would not trade my PM9 for their carry options.

[Pender1]

I completely agree.

[recoilguy]

Superior is relative. If superior means heavier bigger with a shorter crisper trigger and very accurate then it may be. If superior means smaller lighter easier to conceal and very accurate then no. I think it is all in what you maen by superior.

My vote is Kahr.....I am predjudice however.

RCG

[hsart]

I agree that the comparisons are apples and oranges, but the Kimber Ultra-Carry II in 45 cal. looks like a formidable gun, though 8 ounces heavier than the PM45.

[noslolo]

Are you joking Pender1?

[In-Yo-Grill]

Not in the same class...two completely different platforms in comparison. If Kimber made a 1911 style pistol that was the size of the Kahr PM45 we may have a race but other than that I'd rather conceal a Kahr.

[Ol'coot]

I completely agree. however I'm pretty sure all 1911's are DA/SA, not SA only

I think your mistaken as all true 1911's original Browning designs were and are SA only

Check out this link 1911 Semi-Auto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol)

[Bawanna]

I completely agree. however I'm pretty sure all 1911's are DA/SA, not SA only

All 1911's are single action only. Cocked and lock. There are some off shoots like Para LDA's that look like an 1911 but are DAO.

[Pender1]

my bad guys, it's been a long time since I looked at definitions for triggers, got mixed up.

Back to the OP's question however. Comparing any two pistols that are such different platforms is going to be a pure opinion/personal preference argument.

[Bawanna]

my bad guys, it's been a long time since I looked at definitions for triggers, got mixed up.

Back to the OP's question however. Comparing any two pistols that are such different platforms is going to be a pure opinion/personal preference argument.

Agreed two completely different platforms, both very good in my opinion and hold your head up pal, I get confused all the time, in fact some say I live in a constant state of confusion.

I've been meaning to ask, are you a Eagle Scout or just like the badge for an avatar?

[Pender1]

Agreed two completely different platforms, both very good in my opinion and hold your head up pal, I get confused all the time, in fact some say I live in a constant state of confusion.

I've been meaning to ask, are you a Eagle Scout or just like the badge for an avatar?

Thanks for the understanding. And yes, I am an Eagle Scout. Got it exactly 7 days before the age cutoff.

[Bawanna]

Thanks for the understanding. And yes, I am an Eagle Scout. Got it exactly 7 days before the age cutoff.

I'm a Eagle myself, from way way way back. Guess they are coming out with a book that contains lots of Eagle scout stories and experiences. I filled out the info but didn't include stories. Figured they might take my badge away. It was a good learning experience for sure.
I think things are alot different with scouting now days than they were back then, can't say good or bad but different.

[End of Tour]

I own two Kimbers both ultra carry shoot great, easy to carry for me in the cooler months however like the other posters mentioned they are two different animals i love 1911's.That said I love my PM 9 also so easy to carry and very accurate now if i can only get her to be 100% i would be a happy camper . She's off to Kahr for repair and i have my fingers crossed.

[WMD]

Kimber makes a fine line of guns. I wouldn't mind owning one. However, a Kimber would not replace my PM9 for carrying. The PM9 is a light, small package that hits where you aim at. Yeah...., I know it is not a .45 (I do like my .45's) but a 9 will do the job quite nicely. (unless you are surrounded by zombies) ;-)

[Bawanna]

Kimber makes a fine line of guns. I wouldn't mind owning one. However, a Kimber would not replace my PM9 for carrying. The PM9 is a light, small package that hits where you aim at. Yeah...., I know it is not a .45 (I do like my .45's) but a 9 will do the job quite nicely. (unless you are surrounded by zombies) ;-)

I kind of resemble that zombie remark there WMD. We're not all the bad things folks say about us, I guess in groups of us people might not be comfortable but mostly I think we're just misunderstood.

[DKD]

Guys,

I personally owner two Kimbers and two Kahr pistols. The two Kimbers are the 3" Ultra Raptor & all steel Pro Raptor...both very fine pistols, comfortable to shoot, and great looking weapons to be sure. They feel right in your hands and they both shoot great with a really fine match grade triggers & barrels.

I also own an MK-9 "Elite" and a PM 45. I love them both for different reasons. The Ultra Raptor packs very well, however it weighs more empty than my PM 45 loaded. I can shoot the MK9 really well however it is as heavy loaded as my Ultra Raptor which is a 45 ACP.

As others have stated before...both a wonderfull weapons but for different reason. If I was to carry concealed I'd opt out for the 45 ACp in either the PM 45 or the Ultra Raptor as my daily carry...the only exception is at work were discression is mandatory in which case I have to go with my Sig 238 in 380 ACP which I consider a very marginal caliber, but better than no weapon.

So to answer your question my daily carry would depend on my mind set and dress on any given day. I tend to be an old school kind of guy sic 1911 however I do realize the atvantages to double action only carry mode especially in a deap concealment mode...then Kahrs get the nod. Hope this helps you out.

[hsart]

Guys,

I personally owner two Kimbers and two Kahr pistols. The two Kimbers are the 3" Ultra Raptor & all steel Pro Raptor...both very fine pistols, comfortable to shoot, and great looking weapons to be sure. They feel right in your hands and they both shoot great with a really fine match grade triggers & barrels.

I also own an MK-9 "Elite" and a PM 45. I love them both for different reasons. The Ultra Raptor packs very well, however it weighs more empty than my PM 45 loaded. I can shoot the MK9 really well however it is as heavy loaded as my Ultra Raptor which is a 45 ACP.

As others have stated before...both a wonderfull weapons but for different reason. If I was to carry concealed I'd opt out for the 45 ACp in either the PM 45 or the Ultra Raptor as my daily carry...the only exception is at work were discression is mandatory in which case I have to go with my Sig 238 in 380 ACP which I consider a very marginal caliber, but better than no weapon.

So to answer your question my daily carry would depend on my mind set and dress on any given day. I tend to be an old school kind of guy sic 1911 however I do realize the atvantages to double action only carry mode especially in a deap concealment mode...then Kahrs get the nod. Hope this helps you out.
Are all the Kimber carry guns with 3" barrels about the same as far as concealment, recoil, etc? I have seen ultra carry, super carry, ultra covert, raptor, etc all with 3" barrels.

[Bawanna]

Are all the Kimber carry guns with 3" barrels about the same as far as concealment, recoil, etc? I have seen ultra carry, super carry, ultra covert, raptor, etc all with 3" barrels.

I would venture to say yes. All are the same basic platform, weight and size wize. Different bells and whisltes. I love the Raptors for sure but fish scales have not much effect on recoil. They do work well for grip.
Many times the names just designate some little thing thats different, different companies had different names for basically same thing. I believe a 3" 1911 is a 3" 1911. Just how its dressed.

[jfrey]

The comparison is basically apples and oranges, however in my opinion and from personal experience, the kahr is a much better pistol. The one and only Kimber I had literally fell apart. The factory had it longer than I did and that is no exageration. My Kahr has been virtually trouble free so far. I own several other better 1911's and none of them are Kimber. I do plan on owning another kahr in the future.

[mr surveyor]

I can't compare Kimber to a Kahr PM series, but I do own a "pre-Series II" Kimber Stainless Compact 4", and Kahr CW9. My Kimber is among the last possessions I would part with, and it is very easy to carry, although it's all steel I really don't mind the weight. Dimensionally, it's less than 1/10 inch wider than the CW9, but I carry the CW in one of the same IWB holsters that manage my Kimber. I don't carry the Kimber as much as I used to, partly due to ammunition cost for range practice, but more due to the fact that I have gravitated over to the lazy side..... DA, or DA/SA (also carry a Sig P239 in .40 S&W some). I bought the "lovingly used" Kimber several years ago after fondling it for more than a few hours at my favorite boy toy hang-out. It's probably the best fitting handgun I own, and most accurate in my hands, but with a 2.5 pound trigger I feel that it should not be my current daily carry. I may have the trigger re-built to 4 pounds and put it back into the rotation, but having carried the DA/SA Sig, a DA/SA S&W revo, and several DAO Kel-Tecs for several years, it may be best to not confuse the daily manual of arms with the SA Kimber.

Now, will I ever revere the CW9 as I do the Kimber (or Sig)......probably not. I absolutely HATE tupperware, as a rule. There's nothing quite as heart warming as the feel of cold steel when you slip a "real" gun IWB. But, my CW9 has become my regular companion since last July, and has been 100% flawless for the duration. For me, the slim profile is unbeatable, concealment is not a real issue and as stated, it's reliability has been excellent. Can I shoot it as well as the steel guns..... nope, no way. Would it do the job for me in a self defense situation.... I betting my life it will:)

As has been stated..... we're talking about two totally different platforms with different manual of arms. Now, if you want to ask whether the Kimbers and Kahrs are equally constructed....materials and workmanship...fit and finish... probably pretty close.

Dang... now I'm gonna have to open the safe, pull out the Kimber and fondle it for an hour or two:D


surv

[kahrseye]

I have friends that own Kimbers and they are very nice guns. Personally, Kimber doesn't make a gun I would be willing to trade my PM's for. None are as small and light and that's what I'm into....easily carried.

[Roadblock]

I own both Kimbers and Kahr's, you can't compare the two. Apple's and orange's.

[at_liberty]

The Kimber Ultra Carry II (3") is not a pocket gun, while the PM could easily be considered such. I don't have the small Kimber but have shot one and handled a number of them.

My Kimber Aegis Custom II is a full sized 1911 in 9mm and has slim grips. I wouldn't trade it for anything but it is a special purpose gun for IDPA ESP class, saving on ammo costs over my .45 1911 Springfield. Those are not what I consider carry guns, as much because of grip length poking out as anything. Barrel length is not my issue.

I have located a new Kimber Compact CDP II, which is a discontinued combination of .45 ACP, short magazine/grip, and 4" barrel. It's ironic that sales apparently didn't support the model, because to me it would be the ultimate carry gun, balancing all the factors one needs to consider, short of being dressed so lightly that only a bug would be suitable. It wouldn't be much good in a match though without using extended mags, so I guess few want to be forced to own two premium 1911s. The forward cant holster is one way used to address the full length grip problem. It's just a whole lot of gun on your belt, but I got used to it quickly, provided I could dress the way I wanted.

My PM40 serves only as a fanny pack gun, but I haven't had it very long and may come to appreciate its possibilities for carry and concealment. The 1911 is a much better shooter for me. I frankly have no real skill with a Kahr trigger but have been working on that recently, carrying a T40 with PM40 fanny pack for driving. My T9 was a better shooter than the .40 S&W, but I sold it to roll over money for something that I truly would be using. I just feel so fortunate to be able to own my Kimber and will probably go for another one, different size and caliber. They are about $1150-1200 a pop. Production is backordered 6-8 months according to a recent conversation with a dealer. What I want is discontinued, so having located one, I feel like I better move on it right away, at least a layaway.

[O'Dell]

Someone mentioned to me that they thought some of the Kimber carry guns were superior to the Kahr PMs but they did not speak with any detail. Anyone here have both who can shed light on the pro and cons, differences, etc.

I looked at a Kimber UltraCarry before I bought my PM45. For me there was no comparison as the Kahr was much better for what I wanted - CC. If I want to go the the range and shoot, I have my Sigs, S&W, Colt, and Browning for that. For CC, nothing beats a Kahr, IMO.

[at_liberty]

I looked at a Kimber UltraCarry before I bought my PM45. For me there was no comparison as the Kahr was much better for what I wanted - CC. If I want to go the the range and shoot, I have my Sigs, S&W, Colt, and Browning for that. For CC, nothing beats a Kahr, IMO.

A Kimber Ultra is not comparable to a PM45. The Kahr is much smaller. I think you picked size more than anything. The Kimber for me is by far the better shooter. I think we have to do more than conceal these things. We have to shoot them as well. The difference is how much a person is willing to dress for concealment. If the gun has to match how a person would prefer to dress, then actually shooting the thing (or stopping a real threat) will be second priority.

As I write this I am sitting here wearing a Kimber Compact CDP II. It is shorter in grip and lighter than my Kahr T40 but they both have 4" barrels. It carries better than the comparable Kahr. In the 3.6" and smaller guns I would rather have the Kahr, and I do. I have a PM40, which so far has never been my primary carry, but I expect I may opt for it in hot weather.

Another big reason a Kimber would be chosen is if a person already had a comfort level or general bias toward the 1911.

Although the Kimber has an aluminum frame, the polymer frame Kahr of comparable overall dimension is going to be lighter weight but then wilder to shoot.

In general, I would say the small Kahr, especially PM, is at its best in 9mm, otherwise kind of a little cannon you hope you don't have to shoot too much. YMMV.

[kahrseye]

A Kimber Ultra is not comparable to a PM45. The Kahr is much smaller. I think you picked size more than anything. The Kimber for me is by far the better shooter. I think we have to do more than conceal these things. We have to shoot them as well. The difference is how much a person is willing to dress for concealment. If the gun has to match how a person would prefer to dress, then actually shooting the thing (or stopping a real threat) will be second priority.

As I write this I am sitting here wearing a Kimber Compact CDP II. It is shorter in grip and lighter than my Kahr T40 but they both have 4" barrels. It carries better than the comparable Kahr. In the 3.6" and smaller guns I would rather have the Kahr, and I do. I have a PM40, which so far has never been my primary carry, but I expect I may opt for it in hot weather.

Another big reason a Kimber would be chosen is if a person already had a comfort level or general bias toward the 1911.

Although the Kimber has an aluminum frame, the polymer frame Kahr of comparable overall dimension is going to be lighter weight but then wilder to shoot.

In general, I would say the small Kahr, especially PM, is at its best in 9mm, otherwise kind of a little cannon you hope you don't have to shoot too much. YMMV.

I would agree that we need to be able to do more than carry these weapons. The picture included is of a 9 inch paper plate (my standard target) at 7 yards. I am very pleased with the results as this was the first time I shot my PM45. I know of no one who would want to be on the receiving end. Could you get better results with a different gun (Kimber). Possibly but who cares. My main reason for carry is self defense. I don't care if I put 5 shots into a 2 inch group. Put that paper plate anywhere on your chest, and when I hit 5 shots anywhere on that plate bg is going to be in trouble. If I was going to be in a shooting competition...different ball game.

[at_liberty]

I don't care if I put 5 shots into a 2 inch group. Put that paper plate anywhere on your chest, and when I hit 5 shots anywhere on that plate bg is going to be in trouble. If I was going to be in a shooting competition...different ball game.

The Kimber Ultra, the short barrel and short grip model, is not a match gun. It's just a little gun for those who like a 1911, especially the feel and that type of trigger (action), but prefer not to deal with too much hardware to conceal or carry in the bigger 1911s. I have exactly the same gun except an inch more barrel...the same 7 round mag instead of the 8 used with full length grips.

[mcoperator]

If you browse various gun forums I would say Kimber seems to be one of the most complained about for failures of various kinds. Any brand is going to have good and bad. I think the only reason people hype Kimber is because they have an aggressive marketing campaign and it has worked very well for them. I don't think they are notably superior to any of the major manufacturers. It's all comes down to personal preference, (chevy, honda, toyota, etc). Loving my PM45....

[O'Dell]

If you browse various gun forums I would say Kimber seems to be one of the most complained about for failures of various kinds. Any brand is going to have good and bad. I think the only reason people hype Kimber is because they have an aggressive marketing campaign and it has worked very well for them. I don't think they are notably superior to any of the major manufacturers. It's all comes down to personal preference, (chevy, honda, toyota, etc). Loving my PM45....

I really don't know much about Kimber's except that, as I said in a previous post, I looked at one, and it didn't work for my purposes. However, I can relate one incident relative to a Kimber back in January. I had just bought a 24/7 Pro c 45 that I planned on using for belt carry under a jacket. A friend had bought a Kimber Pro Carry II for the same purpose. We decided to break them in together. I really liked the smaller size and extra capacity of the Taurus relative to the Kimber, not to mention the Taurus cost less than half as much. We both shot about 175 rounds that day. The 24/7 Pro shot flawlessly with 2 brands of bulk ball and various HP's, and has since. The Kimber had 5 failures to feed, and 3 FTE. I know that this was only one day and only 2 pistols, but the comparison was dramatic. I also know that Kimber, like Kahr, recommends several hundred rounds for optimum performance. However, I thought it was worth a mention.

BTW, this particular "friend" hasn't spoken to me since, so I don't know the current status of his break in.

[at_liberty]

But yet we have all defended Kahr against inconclusive reports of various incidents. Not many guns I know of are perfect, and customer support for these companies doesn't want to hear it until about 500 rounds through the gun.

Kimber is backordered indefinitely, and the gun shops talk of people calling to locate guns and hurriedly driving in from other States to buy them. Forget about haggling or discounts. It is a seller's market. I bought both of mine before waiting to feel like it was financially convenient. Otherwise, all you can find is these Ultra models serving the demand for little guns and less appropriate dress.

[jocko]

Just no doubt if ur a 1911 fan, the kimber should be in your possession along with others. And if your not a tuper ware fan, then the kimber should be in your possession again.

I try not to compare even my g19 (which is a tune and the most accurate handgun I have ever owned) to my PM9, they just are two totally different guns, . My PM9 rides in my front pocket, MY G19 just cannot do that...