Buyers Remorse

[TheManWith2FirstName]

Well yesterday I went to the gun shop and saw a brand new CM9. It's been on my wishlist for a while. So I went ahead and picked it up. After bringing it home and giving her a proper cleaning and lubing I noticed a crack. Hoping it was a scratch I rubbed it with some fine steel wool and it didn't go away or get any better.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/971966_271850102961339_1172061226_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/947116_271850126294670_1559567464_n.jpg
I know that with the holiday weekend that I probably should wait until next week to get a RMA. Here is what I am wondering:

Am I just imaging things or is this truly a crack?

[TucsonMTB]

It may just be a mold mark where the plastic did not flow well. Try to determine for yourself if it really is a crack before you contact Kahr. Can you see it on both sides of the grip area (inside and outside)? Do the two areas move relative to each other when you try to flex the plastic?

I had a PM40 crack in a different area. When I sent Kahr a picture similar to yours, they claimed it was "just a mold mark" . . . until I sent them a second picture with a piece of dental floss pulled into the crack. Then they wanted the gun back and replaced the frame.

By the way, replacing the frame results in a completely new serial number and they insist on shipping the replacement back through an FFL, on your dime. The replacement process took more than a month in my case.

You could probably save yourself some grief by just taking it back to your friendly, local dealer and letting him contact Kahr. At least they can ship it back to him after replacing the frame, saving you the FFL hassles.

Considering that it will take at least a month to get a replacement from Kahr, your dealer might even be able to give you another gun and put what will be a genuine, new pistol back into his sales inventory when it comes back from Kahr.

All of those suggestions presume a helpful dealer . . .

[RRP]

Your frame is fine. That's not a crack.

Before you worry about it, the notch in the left front rail is normal.

[gunshinestateCW9]

What he said^^^^^. I thought the same thing when I looked closely at my cw9 but if u look it wraps around the grip in a str8 line. It's just mold marks:)

[TheManWith2FirstName]

Thanks for the replies. I can see inside the grip and I am not sure if it goes all the way through. There are some mold lines on the inside. I came up with an idea though. I put an extremely bright light against the magwell and turned off all lights in the room. There was absolutely no light coming through the area I thought was a crack. So it's not completely though. I guess it's a birthmark. Thanks everyone for the quick responses and for the help.

[getsome]

Glad to hear it.....Just put a Hogue Handall Jr grip on it or a bike innertube and you will forget all about it and it feels better on your shooting hand too...By the way, welcome to kahrtalk and if you have any other questions at all be sure to post away....There are lots of nice folks here more than willing to help you out...Good luck with the new Kahr!!!...

[gb6491]

TheManWith2FirstName,
I believe TucsonMTB's (et al) observation about that being a mold mark is correct and to further put your mind at ease here's a blown up portion of a photo from this page: http://www.majorpandemic.com/2012/12/Kahr-CM9-9mm-Carry-Gun-Review.html (this photo (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mNcfuzX7Pik/UNyEMT3r52I/AAAAAAAAEpw/SoCDFQeRa80/s1600/Imgp4546.jpg) in particular) that shows pretty much an identical mark on another CM9 frame:
http://i41.tinypic.com/eitdet.jpg
Welcome to the forums and congrats on your new pistol :).
Regards,
Greg

[Chogers]

Hmmmmm??? Quality Control anyone? Hello? Kahr? Are you sleeping? :behindsofa: :rolleyes:

[MW surveyor]

OMG! I've got the same mark on my CW9. Shows you how observant I am. :o




Hmmmmm??? Quality Control anyone? Hello? Kahr? Are you sleeping? :behindsofa: :rolleyes:

Really????????? Have you seen the mold marks on Glocks? They are supposed to be perfect. :third:

[Chogers]

OMG! I've got the same mark on my CW9. Shows you how observant I am. :o





Really????????? Have you seen the mold marks on Glocks? They are supposed to be perfect. :third:

LOL! Glock doesn't make an expensive version and a cheap version of the same gun. Just sayin. I wonder if they would let a PM9 go out in the same condition? ;)

[Cubby]

Now I've got to check mine :-)

[Tyme49]

(O.M.G.!!!)³ ... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/ANI_GIFs/TINYs/Smiley_Tiny_Faint_Thud.gif

... I just placed my BNIB PM9 DLC under an intense halogen light ...

... and, then, proceeded to carefully inspect it with a big ol' magnifying glass! ...


... NADA, ZILCH, ZIP Bo Diddley Defects - THANKFULLY!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/My_GunZ/Kahr_PM9_DLC_w-Highlights_ENH_WP_800_zpsa7440fed.png
__________________________________________________ ________

BTW, FWIW, awhile back, when I began zero-ing in on Kahr, my first inclination was to buy a nice MK9, ...

... but that 'went to Oaxaca' when I started noticin' all the web posts about MIM (frame) cracks!


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/Kahr/Kahr_Crack_ANOTHER_ONE_TOO_MANY_FOR_ME_800x600_ENH _zpseb39bc6a.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/Kahr/Kahr_Crack_MK9_Slide_wwwarizonashooting-com_800x600_ENH_zps108635f5.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/Kahr/Kahr_MK9_CRACKED_FRAME_01_800x600_ENH_zps9462269f. jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/Kahr/Kahr_MK9_CRACKED_FRAME_03_zpsc251fc37.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/Kahr/Kahr_MK9_CRACKED_FRAME_02_800x600_ENH_zps0f80f45d. jpg

[gb6491]

(O.M.G.!!!)³ ... http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/ANI_GIFs/TINYs/Smiley_Tiny_Faint_Thud.gif

... I just placed my BNIB PM9 DLC under an intense halogen light ...
... and, then, proceeded to carefully inspect it with a big ol' magnifying glass! ...

... NADA, ZILCH, ZIP Bo Diddley Defects - THANKFULLY!


__________________________________________________ ________

BTW, FWIW, awhile back, when I began zero-ing in on Kahr, my first inclination was to buy a nice MK9, ...
... but that 'went to Oaxaca' when I started noticin' all the web posts about MIM (frame) cracks!
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/Kahr/Kahr_Crack_ANOTHER_ONE_TOO_MANY_FOR_ME_800x600_ENH _zpseb39bc6a.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/GHGecko/IMAGES/Guns_etc/Kahr/Kahr_Crack_MK9_Slide_wwwarizonashooting-com_800x600_ENH_zps108635f5.jpg

Yes, there have been some frame cracks reported on the steel frame guns, but it's hardly pandemic. I don't remember any of the reported guns failing to function either (not saying for sure though).
FWIW, I think you'll find Kahr frames are not MIM parts, but rather machined from investment castings. As you included a slide photo, Kahr slides are also non-MIM parts, they are machined from bar stock (http://www.kahr.com/kahr-slide.asp).
Regards,
Greg

[JustinN]

LOL! Glock doesn't make an expensive version and a cheap version of the same gun. Just sayin. I wonder if they would let a PM9 go out in the same condition? ;)

IF it was a crack you could question their QC....but since this is a mold mark, and on multiple weapons I'd say it's an expected mark from the creation process.

It's amazing how quick people love jumping on a dog, before it's even down, to slam their QC and call into question their quality. I'm guessing as soon as he hits the range with that little gun it's going to be love and he'll forget all about the mark...and if the gun isn't great, it will get fixed.

[ltxi]

IF it was a crack you could question their QC....but since this is a mold mark, and on multiple weapons I'd say it's an expected mark from the creation process.

It's amazing how quick people love jumping on a dog, before it's even down, to slam their QC and call into question their quality. I'm guessing as soon as he hits the range with that little gun it's going to be love and he'll forget all about the mark...and if the gun isn't great, it will get fixed.

x2....

[TheManWith2FirstName]

Wow. Didn't expect this many responses. Thanks for all the helpful information. It's a little surprising that Kahr doesn't fix the issue, but I suppose it's just cosmetic. Oh well. I'll take her out to the range in the next week or two and see what she does.

[b4uqzme]

We just want you to enjoy what we've come to love. We get kinda passionate when Kahrs don't get the chance to break in and prove themselves before they are judged. " shoot it like you stole it" (jocko).

[HarleyJack]

It's called a mold cavity parting line. The mold consists of several parts fitted together. All of our guns have that parting line, but just not as pronounced. The mold setup guy just didn't fit the parts together as well for the production batch that produced your gun.

[Jeremiah/Az]

My PM9 has the same exact lines on it, both sides. Nothin' to worry about.

[ltxi]

Wow. Didn't expect this many responses. Thanks for all the helpful information. It's a little surprising that Kahr doesn't fix the issue, but I suppose it's just cosmetic. Oh well. I'll take her out to the range in the next week or two and see what she does.

Fix what?? There's nothing to "fix". Good grief Charlie Brown. :spider:

[jocko]

LOL! Glock doesn't make an expensive version and a cheap version of the same gun. Just sayin. I wonder if they would let a PM9 go out in the same condition? ;)

yes they would, its the same lower secion for cm and pm. I am not saying it is wrong or right but it is what it is. One should havemabye looke dover the gun alot more to be sure and confident of what he was buying. It personlly wold not bother me in a second, aslong as it was not a real crack that went all the way through. But everyone has their own views to:Amflag2:

Its an odd place IMO for a mold makr but also an odd place for a crack. I guess if others have seen this mark on their guns in the same area, then indeed it is a mod mark. thesepoly frames are tugh as nails, not ur cheapo plastic sh!t we think so much of..

Just shoot it likeu stole it and like someone said, u soon will forget all about it ..

[JFootin]

There is also the issue of the back of the frame not matching up with the back of the slide on some Kahr pistols. And the bulges that don't look right on the frame sides near the front. I've also seen many comments about how it seems that Kahr has a softer polymer than many other makers. My two other polymer guns, my >$500 Walther PPQ and my <$200 Taurus TCP, both have much harder and more neatly and finely molded polymer than my Kahr CM9. Glocks aren't pretty, but you don't see variations like this in them.

My theory is that Kahr just doesn't consider it important that the polymer on their guns be perfect in appearance down to the finest detail, as long as it functions correctly. Hey, we also have magazines that don't fit anywhere near flush in the grip frame, which is a very unsightly feature. Oh, and that ugly grip extension only on the front of the extended mags (which they recently redesigned, thankfully). I could be wrong, but I think I see an entrenched attitude at Kahr regarding these things, and I don't think it is going to change. No gun is perfect and Kahrs are what they are, which happens to be some of the best concealed carry guns on the market.

[kcs1]

Just my 2 cents worth on the subject. What you are seeing is a witness mark from a cracked cavity in the mold that produced the frame. While not a show stopper from where it is located in the tool it is still a cause for concern. For an injection mold to have taken a serious enough of a hit to crack a cavity there has to be other damage elsewhere in the tool. I feel I am qualified to speak to this as I have been an engineering manager / tooling manager in the plastics injection molding industry for over 35 years. My main concern is what else is out of tolerance / spec. in that mold cavity and why are they continuing to run it and use the parts before it is properly repaired or replaced. I would like to think Kahr as a company that manufacturers a product that must work in a life or death situation would at least adhere to the same standards as other companies who follow the ISO guidelines for quality. Now on the plus side, my CM9 that I purchased last fall has the same mark so the frame came from that mold cavity and it has worked 100%.

[CJB]

If the cavity was cracked wouldnt the imperfection be a positive instead of negative?

[HarleyJack]

Just my 2 cents worth on the subject. What you are seeing is a witness mark from a cracked cavity in the mold that produced the frame. While not a show stopper from where it is located in the tool it is still a cause for concern. For an injection mold to have taken a serious enough of a hit to crack a cavity there has to be other damage elsewhere in the tool. I feel I am qualified to speak to this as I have been an engineering manager / tooling manager in the plastics injection molding industry for over 35 years. My main concern is what else is out of tolerance / spec. in that mold cavity and why are they continuing to run it and use the parts before it is properly repaired or replaced. I would like to think Kahr as a company that manufacturers a product that must work in a life or death situation would at least adhere to the same standards as other companies who follow the ISO guidelines for quality. Now on the plus side, my CM9 that I purchased last fall has the same mark so the frame came from that mold cavity and it has worked 100%.

This is not a cracked cavity witness mark. If you look at the parting line it's geometrically perfect and the same line exist on the opposite side of the frame (faintly). And if you take a look inside the frame you can clearly see how the mold was constructed and that these are parting lines. This is just a mismatch caused by the mold setup guy.

[Ikeo74]

The Original Poster and and Chicken Little have a lot in common. The Sky is not falling. If you observe the line in only a continuation of the Kahr Logo and is purposely raised and continued around the curve of the grip in order to highlight the Logo. They all have it and it's supposed to be there. The mold is perfect and this discussion is over. Now lets move on to a real issue instead of an imaginary one.:Amflag2:

[7shot]

My theory is that Kahr just doesn't consider it important that the polymer on their guns be perfect in appearance down to the finest detail, as long as it functions correctly. Hey, we also have magazines that don't fit anywhere near flush in the grip frame, which is a very unsightly feature. Oh, and that ugly grip extension only on the front of the extended mags (which they recently redesigned, thankfully). I could be wrong, but I think I see an entrenched attitude at Kahr regarding these things, and I don't think it is going to change. No gun is perfect and Kahrs are what they are, which happens to be some of the best concealed carry guns on the market.

If that we're true, IMO that's a crappy way to run a business and a good way to surly loose there customer base. What are they not going to give a S about next, weather it actually will fire? I sure hope you're not correct on your assumptions.

[JFootin]

If that we're true, IMO that's a crappy way to run a business and a good way to surly loose there customer base. What are they not going to give a S about next, weather it actually will fire? I sure hope you're not correct on your assumptions.

Well, it's just conjecture based on my observations being a Kahr owner and a member here for 3 years. Over all, Kahrs are dependable, durable firearms that are easy to carry and a pleasure to shoot. I think there is room for improvement in quality control, and ongoing issues with the design of the mags that really should be addressed.

But that being said, my CM9 is the most well liked gun I have ever owned in over 40 years of adulthood and gun ownership.

[Bagstrap]

Wow, just when I thought I knew my PM9, I've gone over it with a fine tooth comb and behold I also have that line/mark on mine. Mfg date is 3/2013 so it is fresh off the press. Have no issues with it and the gun goes bang just fine. Would never have noticed.

[phil413tx]

I noticed I have the same line too on my PM9. Just got the PM9 a few weeks ago. Funny I had not noticed it. It definitely looks like it is supposed to be there.

[JFootin]

I'm not going to take the Qwik Grip off my CM9 to look, but it must not be noticeable because I never saw it.

[OldLincoln]

OMG!!!!! I just noticed my frame is black!!!! WTF is going on anyway!!!!

[jocko]

I'm not going to take the Qwik Grip off my CM9 to look, but it must not be noticeable because I never saw it.

thenwhy evenlook for it????? Just sayin:amflag:

[yqtszhj]

OMG!!!!! I just noticed my frame is black!!!! WTF is going on anyway!!!!

LOL... Now that's funny there. :amflag:

[kerby9mm]

If I find something I feel is wrong, flawed or defective I always feel better if other ones have the same problem with theirs.

[7shot]

Well, it's just conjecture based on my observations being a Kahr owner and a member here for 3 years. Over all, Kahrs are dependable, durable firearms that are easy to carry and a pleasure to shoot. I think there is room for improvement in quality control, and ongoing issues with the design of the mags that really should be addressed.

But that being said, my CM9 is the most well liked gun I have ever owned in over 40 years of adulthood and gun ownership.

I agree...i've only been on this forum maybe a year and have owned my only kahr the same amount of time. The only issues i've ever heard about are the ones i've read here. My k9 is quite dependable too and i do trust it with my life. Every Kahr I've run across, be it mine or someone else's, has been complaint free.

[TheManWith2FirstName]

Wow this thread has been interesting to read. So here it is. My CM9 is perfectly fine.

First 6 shots @ 10 yards-
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/984078_10201024900294883_953968752_n.jpg

Remington Golden Sabers 124gr +p @ 10yds-
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/968866_10201024901614916_313430719_n.jpg
The line is something that I didn't expect to find, and thought that it was a crack of some sort. I know that it is NOT a crack and it seems to just be normal for some strange reason.

I am amazed at how well the gun shoots. The recoil is extremely manageable even with the 124gr +p loads. Not a single failure even though there is supposed to be a 200 round brake in period. Compared to my my j-frame, this is so much softer shooting. Plus higher capacity and quicker to reload. To me this is the perfect pocket gun for ME. This is an excellent firearm and would recommend it to anybody.

[JustinN]

Glad to hear it! It's one of the reasons a common response on this forum is go shoot the gun and then see what you think. Kahr's really are impressive for the small package they come in. My K9 is just amazing. It also didn't need a 200 round break in...I have over 200 rounds through it now and have never had a single problem.

[jocko]

I agree...i've only been on this forum maybe a year and have owned my only kahr the same amount of time. The only issues i've ever heard about are the ones i've read here. My k9 is quite dependable too and i do trust it with my life. Every Kahr I've run across, be it mine or someone else's, has been complaint free.

as we had a fellow "past poster here who had some issues with his kahr and basically told the forum he was done with it and then proceeded to posthis issue on anutter gn forum. that is how things spread like wildfire. One issue can end up on 10 gun forums and then those members relate it further on etc. Not just kahrs, no gun maker is immune to this type of internet b-sh!t.

One has to trust his judgement, read as much as he can, believe most nuttin, see if u can find the gun of ur choice to test fire etc. Make ur decision based on ur findings not what ol jocko or some outher d!ck posts:Amflag2:

[JoeyG]

Got a new CM9 and it has the same mark. Checked with a light and it's not a crack. Sounds like this is a common frame mark. Took it to the range & no issues. I don't think I'd worry a whole lot about it.

[JoeyG]

OMG!!!!! I just noticed my frame is black!!!! WTF is going on anyway!!!!

That's some funny stuff there!! :amflag::amflag::amflag:

[muggsy]

After seeing all of those cracks and mold marks, I looked my CM9 over from top to bottom and inside out and couldn't find a flaw, so I took a scribe and put a few in. Hell, I don't want my gun to appear to be different from all the others. :)

[jocko]

good idea, I thought about that myself but after stippling the grip, I think I must have covered up the cracks and mold marks. I can assure my my pMJ9 which to most looks like sh!t would not get top bucks like a stock PMJ9 would. one does what he wants to do and should not worry about the resale value part or what ol jocko thinks. If it please u, thatis all that matters.

Mind u thought I did not do any of this mod stuff to my PMJ9 ujtil I was satisfied it was running like a rosrter after a hen, or in laymans terms, elellen degenerate after Rosie O,, and that it was gonna be my ccw gun 24/7.

[mr surveyor]

Break in procedure for new carry gun:

1. Closely follow manufacturers procedure for the break-in process to assure proper function and reliability. Take extreme care in avoiding any damage to finish of firearm, in case the gun must be returned to manufacturer for repair or even replacement.

2. After reliability has been proven, and the firearm has been proven to be desirable for long term ownership and carry use, the following steps are in order to assure the owner/user will be comfortable in carrying/using a new firearm:

a. Apply light to medium pressure to a small piece of 80-100 grit sand paper to one side of the barrel (revolver) or slide (pistol) to leave an obvious artificial character mark.

b. Using any small, sharp object (corner of a file, chisel, rusty nail, etc.) make a small, but obvious, mark on the grip (opposite side from the above noted step "a")

3. Obtain a proper, comfortable holster for the firearm, keep it (the firearm) clean and properly lubed, and as Jocko says "shoot it like you stole it"

4. Carry 24/7 and have no regrets about small, insignificant superficial things.



surv