I'm done. Replacing my CW9

[TN_Mike]

I have had it with the magazines in this gun.

Bought it 2 years ago. I love the gun. It fits my hand perfectly, it points more naturally than any gun I have ever owned or shot. It carries so easily it is like it isn't even there. But, the magazines SUCK. I'm tired of worrying if the top round in the mag has slid forward and nose dived. I'm sick of pulling the spare mag out of the mag carrier at night and having the top round or three pop out of the damn thing.

I've tried the mods to the mags that everyone has talked about on here to limited success. Bottom line, I shouldn't have to modify the damn mags on a modern carry gun to make them reliable.

I've called and spoken t Kahr customer support three times. Each time, they seem very uninterested in my concerns and just tell me that the mags have to work that way, which is BS. No mag HAS to work bad for them to function. That doesn't even make sense.

So, I am dumping the CW9 in favor of something else. I am currently looking for a comparable replacement. Going to look very seriously at the XDs9, the Beretta Nano, and the M&P Shield.

Like I said, I love the gun, but the fact that the mags don't work worth a damn and the company doesn't care and won't fix the problem, and it IS a problem, they have lost me as a customer forever.

[downtownv]

pm sent.

[yqtszhj]

Don't buy a nano if you're frustrated with your Kahr. My wife has a Nano. The Kahr has fewer problems. It took work and polishing to get the Nano right and I'm still not 100% certain about it. It failed to extract bad in the beginning.

The XDs 45 is nice and mine has been 100% since round one. Not sure about the XDs9. It's new and the XDs45 had issues with first production guns.

I would suggest provide some info on your CW9 issues here and I would think that folks here could help out. My CW9 was flawless for 1000+ rounds and my CM9 has been 100% since 100 rounds. If it shoots every time you pull the trigger I'd say the other stuff could maybe be worked on.

Just my thoughts.

[jocko]

I have had it with the magazines in this gun.

Bought it 2 years ago. I love the gun. It fits my hand perfectly, it points more naturally than any gun I have ever owned or shot. It carries so easily it is like it isn't even there. But, the magazines SUCK. I'm tired of worrying if the top round in the mag has slid forward and nose dived. I'm sick of pulling the spare mag out of the mag carrier at night and having the top round or three pop out of the damn thing.

I've tried the mods to the mags that everyone has talked about on here to limited success. Bottom line, I shouldn't have to modify the damn mags on a modern carry gun to make them reliable.

I've called and spoken t Kahr customer support three times. Each time, they seem very uninterested in my concerns and just tell me that the mags have to work that way, which is BS. No mag HAS to work bad for them to function. That doesn't even make sense.

So, I am dumping the CW9 in favor of something else. I am currently looking for a comparable replacement. Going to look very seriously at the XDs9, the Beretta Nano, and the M&P Shield.

Like I said, I love the gun, but the fact that the mags don't work worth a damn and the company doesn't care and won't fix the problem, and it IS a problem, they have lost me as a customer forever.

but that OK, kahr will survive.Hope u find what ur looking for.there magazines are what they are and bydesign, not accident. 99% live with ad work aorund it, evidently u can't do that. I do wish u the best in finding a gun that pleases u. I have a mag carrier that never looses a round NEVER. Never had one issue loading the magazinein over 5 years. GuessI got luckly.

[kerby9mm]

I have read about the mag thing with rounds popping out while carrying the spare mag. I have carried spares in my mag carrier for both my mk9 & mk40. I have never had a problem yet with loose rounds from either mag. My carrier is a leather one mag stiff & tight so there is no room for the mags to flop around. Could that be the reason mine don't pop out.

[warbird1]

Don't buy a nano if you're frustrated with your Kahr. My wife has a Nano. The Kahr has fewer problems. It took work and polishing to get the Nano right and I'm still not 100% certain about it. It failed to extract bad in the beginning.

The XDs 45 is nice and mine has been 100% since round one. Not sure about the XDs9. It's new and the XDs45 had issues with first production guns.

I would suggest provide some info on your CW9 issues here and I would think that folks here could help out. My CW9 was flawless for 1000+ rounds and my CM9 has been 100% since 100 rounds. If it shoots every time you pull the trigger I'd say the other stuff could maybe be worked on.

Just my thoughts.

That must be an early Nano. I bought mine about 6 wks back and it is great...even with 115 gr ammo.

[mr surveyor]

I carry my spare CW9 mag loose in a front shirt pocket and in three years I've never had a round pop out..

It is possible that the mag spring was installed backwards which could easily put too much tension of the bass of the cartridges and not enough up front.

With the 9mm cases being tapered as they are, a completely vertical arrangement of the spring tension and follower just doesn't lend itself to good retention, in my opinion. I have other brand 9mm mags that didn't seem to retain the rounds well.

[b4uqzme]

+1 jocko. I just hope OP finds a gun that makes him happy. Good luck.

[jocko]

+1 jocko. I just hope OP finds a gun that makes him happy. Good luck.

gonna peddle my 04 audi. I can't get the local fm station here very good:Amflag2:

[muggsy]

If your not pleased with perfection you're very hard to please. Some people give up much too easily.

[kpm9]

I've had some issues with mags too, but not to the extent where more than 1 round pops out. I find the Speer Gold Dots don't pop out of the mags, but the Hornady's do also.

Whatever you do, stay away from the Nano, IMO. Build quality is **** (striker assembly), FTF, double feeds all the time and 3 times back to the factory with no improvements.

If you can find one, get a SW Shield. You'll like it, I love both of mine.

[skiflydive]

I'm having a hard time here. The OP brings a cogent, well written, thoughtful concern about his CC gun. We all agree CC guns have to be 99.9999% reliable.

Instead of encouraging him in some helpful way some of our most senior and well respected members chime in with, in my opinion, sarcasm, derision, and questions about his willingness to persevere.

Just sayin'

[codegeek]

I'm having a hard time here. The OP brings a cogent, well written, thoughtful concern about his CC gun. We all agree CC guns have to be 99.9999% reliable.

Instead of encouraging him in some helpful way some of our most senior and well respected members chime in with, in my opinion, sarcasm, derision, and questions about his willingness to persevere.

Just sayin'

+1 as the new guy here, I am having the same problem with my CW 9. I am willing to try and work through it, but I am not going to keep something that doesn't function properly. This problem, from my perspective doesn't appear isolated, and I am quite frankly astonished that Kahr is just blowing it off.

[b4uqzme]

I'm having a hard time here. The OP brings a cogent, well written, thoughtful concern about his CC gun. We all agree CC guns have to be 99.9999% reliable.

Instead of encouraging him in some helpful way some of our most senior and well respected members chime in with, in my opinion, sarcasm, derision, and questions about his willingness to persevere.

Just sayin'

No. I genuinely hope OP finds a gun that works for him. That's why there are so many different guns and brands. The common theme across most of this forum is that, although Kahrs sometimes require some extra effort, they are worth it in the end. The rewards to those who persevere are significant. Maybe had OP posted a request for help he would have received different responses.

[7shot]

I have read about the mag thing with rounds popping out while carrying the spare mag. I have carried spares in my mag carrier for both my mk9 & mk40. I have never had a problem yet with loose rounds from either mag. My carrier is a leather one mag stiff & tight so there is no room for the mags to flop around. Could that be the reason mine don't pop out.

Maybe the OP means when carried lose in the pocket is when they fall out. That is what they did when i carried mine this way. I finally bought a nylon knife case for my spare mag, works great.

[gb6491]

Don't buy a nano if you're frustrated with your Kahr. My wife has a Nano. The Kahr has fewer problems. It took work and polishing to get the Nano right and I'm still not 100% certain about it. It failed to extract bad in the beginning.

The XDs 45 is nice and mine has been 100% since round one. Not sure about the XDs9. It's new and the XDs45 had issues with first production guns.

I would suggest provide some info on your CW9 issues here and I would think that folks here could help out. My CW9 was flawless for 1000+ rounds and my CM9 has been 100% since 100 rounds. If it shoots every time you pull the trigger I'd say the other stuff could maybe be worked on.

Just my thoughts.That must be an early Nano. I bought mine about 6 wks back and it is great...even with 115 gr ammo.
That's interesting warbird1. I had an early Nano and, like yqtszhj, experienced problems with it. I liked the gun quite a bit, but it would suffer a failure to extract about every 250-300 rounds. The failure was always the same (case stuck in chamber, fresh round jammed behind it) and difficult to clear without a slide lock. Even though there were quite a few posts in regards to this type failure on the Beretta forum, Beretta was in denial about there being an issue. If current Nanos don't have this problem, then I might revisit one.
Regards,
Greg

[chrish]

There's no question that Kahr mags loose rounds. They are not designed like other mags for whatever reason. I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I want to be. While my Kahr mags don't drop rounds when I look at them funny...if I shake them a bit a round will fly off...NONE of my other guns do this. So, say what you want, it's the one thing about Kahr that grates on my last nerve. But even with this failing, I still carry a Kahr most of the time. My Kahrs are otherwise flawlessly reliable and the chances you are going to have to go to mag #2 in a gun fight AND that mag #2 is going to drop a round in the middle of changing mags in a way that is going to cause you a failure are slim to none. So I don't worry about it.

Yea, you could hit a perfect storm of a scenario where A) you have to use your gun (very unlikely in life), B) you need mag #2, C) you have the where-with-all to drop mag #1 and go to mag #2, and D) you drop mag #1, go to insert mag #2, and that loose round causes you to die...but really? I'm not gonna worry about that. If my day goes THAT bad, I'm happy to exit this world and move on to the next. I'm insured.

[codegeek]

Well, like I said, I'm willing to try and work through these problems. I'm even willing to carry 6+1 if that makes my Kahr 100% reliable. The first round hanging is pretty much a serious issue should scenario "A" ever occur Chris, especially if carrying 7+1. The whole purpose of being armed in the first place is to shift the odds favorably in our direction.

[7shot]

Yea, you could hit a perfect storm of a scenario where A) you have to use your gun (very unlikely in life), B) you need mag #2, C) you have the where-with-all to drop mag #1 and go to mag #2, and D) you drop mag #1, go to insert mag #2, and that loose round causes you to die...but really? I'm not gonna worry about that. If my day goes THAT bad, I'm happy to exit this world and move on to the next. I'm insured.

And if you are that paranoid there's always the double stacks...

[Bawanna]

No. I genuinely hope OP finds a gun that works for him. That's why there are so many different guns and brands. The common theme across most of this forum is that, although Kahrs sometimes require some extra effort, they are worth it in the end. The rewards to those who persevere are significant. Maybe had OP posted a request for help he would have received different responses.


This^^^

This was not a request for help, it was a rant and an report which is fine.
The decision is made, game over, I'm moving on. Not a word saying convince me to do otherwise.
As stated the rewards for patience and getting a balky Kahr (they are really few) to run are great.
Some just refuse to go there and that's ok too.
I might be the same way in some scenarios. I haven't had any of the mag issues but I'm sure willing to help anyone that does have issues and WANTS help.
Anyone that doesn't want help which is fine is off my radar, I'll see ya on the other side.

[chrish]

Well, like I said, I'm willing to try and work through these problems. I'm even willing to carry 6+1 if that makes my Kahr 100% reliable. The first round hanging is pretty much a serious issue should scenario "A" ever occur Chris, especially if carrying 7+1. The whole purpose of being armed in the first place is to shift the odds favorably in our direction.

Yes, by all means, you need your CARRY option to be reliable. But this thread is about the mags in general, i.e. that mag in your pocket that has a loose round on top. There are some solutions on the forum here to sand the top of the follower to create a more reliable feed and somewhat of a better 'grip' on the top round, but I have personally not had to do that. My P9 feeds perfectly, always has. After a few hundred rounds, it began to even take a relatively slow hand rack and chamber a round successfully. My TP doesn't have as many rounds thru it, it still doesn't like hand racking, but in both cases P and TP, I never hand rack anyway. I always drop the slide w/ the release.

I also don't typically carry a second mag. Again, on the extreme off chance I have to draw and I can't get it done w/ the single mag I'm carrying in the gun, then it just twert my day...what will happen will happen.

If I'm going somewhere that I'm that concerned about the environment and my safety...either I decide to not go in the first place...or I'm not carrying my Kahr anyway (maybe as a backup), I'm carrying a double-stack.


And if you are that paranoid there's always the double stacks...

Exactly!!!

[gunshinestateCW9]

I don't currently carry a 2nd mag either but want to start. Loose mags don't do well in my pocket they get all sideways and are uncomfortable. When I get a mag holder of some kind ill be in business.

[gb6491]

There's no question that Kahr mags loose rounds. They are not designed like other mags for whatever reason. I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I want to be. While my Kahr mags don't drop rounds when I look at them funny...if I shake them a bit a round will fly off...NONE of my other guns do this. So, say what you want, it's the one thing about Kahr that grates on my last nerve. But even with this failing, I still carry a Kahr most of the time. My Kahrs are otherwise flawlessly reliable and the chances you are going to have to go to mag #2 in a gun fight AND that mag #2 is going to drop a round in the middle of changing mags in a way that is going to cause you a failure are slim to none. So I don't worry about it.

Yea, you could hit a perfect storm of a scenario where A) you have to use your gun (very unlikely in life), B) you need mag #2, C) you have the where-with-all to drop mag #1 and go to mag #2, and D) you drop mag #1, go to insert mag #2, and that loose round causes you to die...but really? I'm not gonna worry about that. If my day goes THAT bad, I'm happy to exit this world and move on to the next. I'm insured.
I run modified followers in my CW9 magazines, but carry spares in a pouch. I've not had any issues with loose rounds from the spares. I just tried a shake test after reading your post and did not have any rounds fly off.
6KoUft99boI
Just some food for thought:nerd:
Regards,
Greg

[JERRY]

i havent had any magazine issues with my PM45 or PM9 with respect to rounds coming loose.

that said, since joining this board it seems the Kahr magazines are the achilles heel of all their guns be they steel or polymer. definately not anything new to Kahr, just a problem ignored by the company which counts on kitchen table gunsmithing from the buyers.....

im lucky i guess....my PM9 is flawless, and my PM45 runs correctly now that it has over 500 rounds through it and some kitchen table gunsmithing on my part.

[codegeek]

I was looking over the 8 round magazine thingee in the tech forum, and I was curious if anybody reduced the tension on the 7 round magazine by maybe snipping off a link or two to go along with the follow mod?

[JERRY]

I was looking over the 8 round magazine thingee in the tech forum, and I was curious if anybody reduced the tension on the 7 round magazine by maybe snipping off a link or two to go along with the follow mod?

i cant see the company advising anybody to snip off magazine spring coils to make the magazine work right.

[ripley16]

A man has to have confidence in his firearm. No doubt about that. Whereas I love my Kahrs, they can be problematic. Most of my Kahrs were purchased just to add to the collection. The one I bought with the full intent of making it my CCW, a P45, let me down. Never proving to be reliable, even after over 800 rounds.

Some of my Kahrs have never waivered, never failed. But were I forced to use one as my CCW, I would always have a nagging worry, an amount of doubt that I find unacceptable.

[Bawanna]

I was looking over the 8 round magazine thingee in the tech forum, and I was curious if anybody reduced the tension on the 7 round magazine by maybe snipping off a link or two to go along with the follow mod?

I think Harrylee did that with some success. A few others have felt there was too much tension.

I think Gregs follower mods have an excellent track record of success.

[jocko]

A man has to have confidence in his firearm. No doubt about that. Whereas I love my Kahrs, they can be problematic. Most of my Kahrs were purchased just to add to the collection. The one I bought with the full intent of making it my CCW, a P45, let me down. Never proving to be reliable, even after over 800 rounds.

Some of my Kahrs have never waivered, never failed. But were I forced to use one as my CCW, I would always have a nagging worry, an amount of doubt that I find unacceptable.

trust my PMJ9 100% or it wouldnot be in my pocket. that bein said ANY gun can go click the next time u pullthe trigger. Not to many things in life is certain. Just sayin:Amflag2:

[O'Dell]

trust my PMJ9 100% or it wouldnot be in my pocket. that bein said ANY gun can go click the next time u pullthe trigger. Not to many things in life is certain. Just sayin:Amflag2:

Same for me Jocko, and I've had seven Kahr's with nary a Problem, but I realize that some do. First, I NEVER use an extended mag in any pistol, EVER! I even use seven round mags in my 1911's because that's the way John Moses designed them. Second, I don't carry a spare mag, but if I did I have one of "Bear's" mag carriers for my PM9.

[jocko]

Same for me Jocko, and I've had seven Kahr's with nary a Problem, but I realize that some do. First, I NEVER use an extended mag in any pistol, EVER! I even use seven round mags in my 1911's because that's the way John Moses designed them. Second, I don't carry a spare mag, but if I did I have one of "Bear's" mag carriers for my PM9.

I suspect if JB wanbted 8 or 9 round 1911';s he would have designed them that way.Seemswe buy these ultracopact guns and the first thing we wantto do is stick a fokking extended magazine up the guns ass. Makes no sense to me, but again I never had one issue with my 7 round kahr mags in my PMJ9,cuase I don't use um: Jsut sayin

semper vulgare.

[codegeek]

I think Harrylee did that with some success. A few others have felt there was too much tension.

I think Gregs follower mods have an excellent track record of success.

Harrylee put a six round spring in an eight round magazine and it seemed to reduce the gap even more than just the mod. I was just curious. Not planning on doing any snipping myself :D

Yup yup. that's plan A, Greg's follower mod. I was watching the extraction of my snap caps from the magazine today, and the more rounds in the magazine, the deeper "the dive".

Thanks for the help guys!

[TN_Mike]

If I may,


I'm having a hard time here. The OP brings a cogent, well written, thoughtful concern about his CC gun. We all agree CC guns have to be 99.9999% reliable.

Instead of encouraging him in some helpful way some of our most senior and well respected members chime in with, in my opinion, sarcasm, derision, and questions about his willingness to persevere.

Just sayin'

Thank you very much for saying what I was thinking. I may be new to this forum but I am in no way new to guns, and carrying. I am 45 years old, I have carried a gun either professionally or on my own time since I was 18 an joined the Navy. I am an ex-police officer. I am a firearms trainer. I know what I'm doing and I know when a damn gun isn't reliable enough to carry and rust with my life and the lives of my wife and children. Period.



+1 as the new guy here, I am having the same problem with my CW 9. I am willing to try and work through it, but I am not going to keep something that doesn't function properly. This problem, from my perspective doesn't appear isolated, and I am quite frankly astonished that Kahr is just blowing it off.

It is not in any way an isolated problem. Many, many Kahr owners report the same problems. So much so in fact that there is at least one thread on this very site dedicated to this problem and the myriad of solutions some people have tried.


Maybe the OP means when carried lose in the pocket is when they fall out. That is what they did when i carried mine this way. I finally bought a nylon knife case for my spare mag, works great.

What I mean is, carried in my pocket the rounds will work their way out of the mag. (once, a mag dumped its entire contents into my pocket while I was driving. Sitting still, all of them.) Carried in a kydex mag holder, carried in a leather mag holder, carried in a nylon mag holder. Carried in any way I can carry a mag they lose a round or two. If I shake them, they will dump rounds. If I tap them to seat the rounds into the back of the mag, they will dump a round.


Well, like I said, I'm willing to try and work through these problems. I'm even willing to carry 6+1 if that makes my Kahr 100% reliable. The first round hanging is pretty much a serious issue should scenario "A" ever occur Chris, especially if carrying 7+1. The whole purpose of being armed in the first place is to shift the odds favorably in our direction.

You know what, so am I which is why I have kept this gun for 2 years and tried several of the fixes mentioned on this site. I sanded the followers. Didn't help much. I tried putting a mag in a vise and squeezing the top of the mag down to the same dimensions at the bottom. Didn't help. I tried putting a different sprig in with less tension, didn't help at all.

The problem is a mulch-faceted one. There are several flaws in the problem as a whole. And maybe the mags do have to be designed like this to get them to function in the gun. So be it. But that doesn't mean I should carry a gun that functions like this.

That being said, as I stated before, the gun has never malfunctioned. The mags feed when they are in the gun. However, I have had a round pop out of the mag while I was inserting it into the gun quickly. It was while shooting a competition and it showed me that if I did have to reload in a real situation, no matter how unlikely that may be, it could be a real problem.

If any of you have Kahrs that do not have this problem then I am very happy for you. But, mine has the problem, the two new mags I bought directly from Kahr had the problem right out of the boxes. That tells me this is an issue that is still not being addressed in any way.

And as for me asking for suggestions, I already read the whole thread on the problem. I followed most of those suggestions. So I didn't feel the need to ask for more. If those didn't solve anything, I'm not sure anything else would and it is apparent to me that the mags aren't reliable if an owner has to put this much work into them to get them to be reliable. There are simply too many other options out there that do not have these issues to continue beating this dead horse.

[jocko]

does that mean when u peddle the POS kahr that you will be leavin the forum??? Just sayin

It will be interesting to see just how many other gun forums u then run to to post your kahr comments.

semper vulgare;

[TN_Mike]

does that mean when u peddle the POS kahr that you will be leavin the forum??? Just sayin

It will be interesting to see just how many other gun forums u then run to to post your kahr comments.

semper vulgare;

Wow. Keeping it classy huh jocko?

Yes, if I don't have a Kahr I don't see any reason to stay on the site and take crap from you. I have posted on one other site about the issues with the Kahr and that's it. It is a much bigger site with a much better reputation. Not sure if you are a member there or not. But the guys there were already aware of the magazine problems with Kahr guns and of the problematic attitudes here on this site.

[jocko]

Thats me, very classy, normally I can smell a phoney even on the internet. U came on with the attitufe, I just gave u my points and I can see I was already right that u have started to post elsewhere. So typical of a troll. They come and they go..

bawanna willbe along shortly to take care of this matter:Amflag2:

[chrish]

I run modified followers in my CW9 magazines, but carry spares in a pouch. I've not had any issues with loose rounds from the spares. I just tried a shake test after reading your post and did not have any rounds fly off.

Just some food for thought:nerd:
Regards,
Greg

Greg,

I've watched your vid a number of times in the past and believe me, I've considered giving it a try. It would definitely be advantageous to have the ability to more easily clear a failure when it could be critical. (not that I've ever had much problem at the range w/ any of my Kahrs). That being said, I have to shake pretty good, and it has to be a 'shake' where the bullet/mag goes forward...but I can easily make a round break free.

I've got an extra mag here somewhere from my PM9 that I no longer own. I may at some point yank that follower and give it a shot.

[TN_Mike]

Thats me, very classy, normally I can smell a phoney even on the internet. U came on with the attitufe, I just gave u my points and I can see I was already right that u have started to post elsewhere. So typical of a troll. They come and they go..

You were incorrect this time. No troll here. I posted on the one site I consider my home, a site I have over 10K posts on and am a senior member of. Why wouldn't I? I posted here about the one gun that I own that is a Kahr. Seemed logical to me but now I see that was a bad idea because some of the members here have that "Kahr is great and if you don't like it you are an idiot" attitude. You exude it. I dislike people like you. There is no reasoning with people like you.

If you will look here, you will see that I posted on November 16, 2011, in a thread about this subject and I expressed some of the same concerns I still have. ( http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9269&page=2 )
I tried the fixes suggested in that thread and while they made my problem slightly better they did not solve the issue.

I may have had an attitude in my original post. But that is because I am at the end of my rope with this magazine problem. I think that is understandable.

It's guys like you who give sites a bad rep. We don't let this kind of thing go on at the site I speak of for that reason. So if you still think I am a troll jackass, sorry, jocko (easy mistake to make) then so be it.

[mr surveyor]

Mike

I wish you well. I've seen you around other forums for several years ... maybe even on the old KelTec forums. I think you and I know there just aren't very many off the shelf - out of the box firearms that are going to be 100%, although some are certainly going to break that barrier. Many will be priced the same as the KT or Kahr and work perfectly, until they break. Many more will cost double the Kahr prices and still require extensive break in as well as a trip back to the mother ship to be properly tuned. The mag issue with the Kahr (as well as some of the KT's and others) could be fixed with a bit of engineering ingenuity if they really wanted to ... it's a tapered case round that really needs to have the perfect angle of incidence to the stack, and some just don't see the problem. I do trust my CW9 to function as it has never faltered, but 90% of the time I carry revolvers anyway. Even my old 1997-98 Kimber Compact has had mag issues (I got 7 CM Shooting Star mags with it when I bought it used in 2005), and I found that the previous owner had errantly reversed the mag springs in a couple of them. I will say that my former Sig P239 in .40 never had a single hiccup of any kind, but now we're talking double the cost of a Kahr ... which may or may not be an issue.

Anyway, I hope it works out for you.

surv

[Bawanna]

I think we're done here.