Help me decide, what's next?!

[chrish]

So, I'm a handgun guy. The only rifle I have ever owned is my recently purchased target/plinker (MR Magnum Lite .22lr). But, other than maybe another CZ in the near future, I think I'm done w/ handguns for awhile and need to move on to something different for my next purchase. I'm having trouble deciding shotgun, AR, or a centerfire varmit/target rifle. I've narrowed my choices down to the following.

Shotgun: CZ 612 (new from them, its an Akkar from Turkey, but at around $300 might be tough to beat, plus it's only 6lbs). A sootch00 video on youtube recently got me interested in this. Just don't want to break the bank on something I'll hardly ever shoot. My only thought is maybe I'd get the extra barrel option for this and try my hand at sporting clays sometime.

AR: Windham's new Carbon. Done a ton of reading on the old Carbon from BM, which seem to be iffy. But Windham has done more w/ this (reinforced) and at under 6lbs, seems to be the AR I'm gravitating to. My alternates here is maybe the M&P Sport, but I'm compelled to go lightweight.

Bolt: Looking at a couple here. I don't hunt and don't really plan on shooting out much past 250yds w/ it (limit of my range). I'm looking at either the Mossberg MVP (.223/5.56) in the 18.5" barrel and also the Remington Micro 7 in 300 AAC Blackout. Kinda leaning toward the Mossberg, dunno that I want the blackout just b/c of ammo availability.

I'm pretty set on going lightweight in each case above. I have a strong aversion to lugging anything around that's heavy. [thick Austrian accent] I'm a girly man.

Any thoughts? Words of wisdom? Other things to consider?

[Barth]

Any AR I've held is crazy light.
I'd likely go for a classic Colt LE6920.

[b4uqzme]

I'm thinking on a 357 levergun myself...more for fun than function.

[mr surveyor]

ditto for the lever gun, but nix on the statement of "more fun than function". There just ain't a more functional rifle than a properly handled lever gun. Lots to choose from .... .38/357mag, .44 mag, .30-30, .35 rem, .45-70 and quite a few more. I'll take a lever gun over a spray and pray AR any day of the week, rain, sleet, snow or sunny.

Now, finding a good quality lever gun today can be a challenge, unless you can find the well made - at least pre millinium - model on the shelf. Then expect to pay at least as much, or more (for a really clean one) as the new out of the box models.

I guess I am getting old.

[chrish]

I was on a lever-action path for awhile. Still may at some point, but while I don't personally own one, I have access to them 'in the family' to get it out of my system when I feel the need to play 'cowboys and steel plates'.

I've really been _leaning_ the bolt action route. One, just sounds like a nice leisurely day at the range sitting behind one plinking. Two, mainly to keep me from getting trigger happy and blowing piles of money down-range w/ an AR. But, the AR is a bit more appealing to double for a SHTF rifle, if I could control myself at the range. But I know how I am w/ my pistols. Slap a red-dot on an AR and I might go broke inside of a month.

Shotgun sounds fun, but the closest sporting clay/skeet/trap range is about 2 hours away and I don't get up that way often enough in the end to be worth it.

[b4uqzme]

ditto for the lever gun, but nix on the statement of "more fun than function". There just ain't a more functional rifle than a properly handled lever gun. Lots to choose from .... .38/357mag, .44 mag, .30-30, .35 rem, .45-70 and quite a few more. I'll take a lever gun over a spray and pray AR any day of the week, rain, sleet, snow or sunny.

Now, finding a good quality lever gun today can be a challenge, unless you can find the well made - at least pre millinium - model on the shelf. Then expect to pay at least as much, or more (for a really clean one) as the new out of the box models.

I guess I am getting old.

Sorry. Didn't mean any disrespect. Just sayin' that for me the main motivation is just for the joy of shooting one. Thanks for keeping me straight. Agreed that finding a good example will be a challenge. But I'm not in a hurry this time. One will turn up...

[mr surveyor]

Sorry. Didn't mean any disrespect. Just sayin' that for me the main motivation is just for the joy of shooting one. Thanks for keeping me straight. Agreed that finding a good example will be a challenge. But I'm not in a hurry this time. One will turn up...

hey, don't worry about the "respect" thing .... I don't get much of that anyway. My opinion is worth no more than anyone else. I figure on this forum there's probably more black gun fans than those of us that prefer to tote the old traditional irons.

Considering just the "joy of shooting", for me there's nothing better than a "minute of boiler pump" lever gun, or a smooth bolt gun than can consistently make clover leaf groups at 100 yards. The AR's and pistol caliber carbines are "fun" ... if you can afford to feed them at the range, but other than the range or for that 0.05% chance you may need it for home defense (if you can get to it before a ready handgun), I just don't see much more use for them.

I don't think you need to worry about the "respect" thing when it comes to opinions. Your opinion is worth just as much as mine ... don't ask the me the value though:D

[mr surveyor]

I'm thinking on a 357 levergun myself...more for fun than function.



let's back up a couple of posts ....

about the best current, in the affordable range, pistol caliber lever guns I've seen are (and I have to eat crow for buying one myself) the Rossi M92's. The quality in fit and finish completely leave Remington/Marlin (unaffectionately known as remlin) in the dust. Like almost all other high production firearms in the current market, Rossi does have it's share of problems and the occasional DIY fixes (and even more rare returns - CS ain't all that good from what I hear). I searched for three years for that special pre-1990 Marlin in either .44 mag or .38/357 mag, but they are not usually pryed from owners hands around here. I relented and bought the .44 mag M92 with 20" barrel ($486 OTD) and have been pleasantly surprised. While I'm trying to build up my rifle buying funds again I'll still be on the search for the vintage Marlin in .38/.357 mag, but may end up getting another Rossi, just to have the original John Moses Browning designed Winchester 92 action.

I don't outwardly support "foreign" firearms makers, but Rossi seems to have filled the void left by the Remington takeover of Marlin.

Just a suggestion;)

[b4uqzme]

+1. So far I just can't warm up to black plastic. I guess I prefer steel and wood in handguns or long guns. Black plastic mag baseplates are OK I guess... Even my rubber K40 grips are coming off as soon as the wood ones arrive. :blushing: Thanks.

[b4uqzme]

ok chrish. Now you know what we like...any of this helping you decide??? :rolleyes:

[chrish]

ok chrish. Now you know what we like...any of this helping you decide??? :rolleyes:

It actually is...but damn you for posting that pic of the birds head grip vaquero. Yet another on my long list of purchases. :D Do try to keep this on the subject of long guns, posting pics of pistols on my list just makes me question the sanity of another rifle knowing my fetish for handguns.

Seriously, it is helping. I kinda feel the same way about an AR or PCC that mr surveyor is saying. Between the cost of feeding them and generally not having much use for one outside of SHTF (even home defense, i'm going for the easily hidden and mobile handgun), I'm leaning bolt action varmint gun. It'll give me more accuracy at longer ranges than my .22lr, and be more 'bench friendly' for a day at the range than an AR, lever, etc. Not to mention, a bolt is a bolt is a bolt...not too much accessorizing to worry about. If I got an AR, between ammo and gadgets (gadgets make me giddy), I'd REALLY be broke.

So, maybe I'll give the lever action another look, but I think its gonna be lever or MORE likely a bolt action. Then maybe an AR or shotgun after that.

Not like I'm gonna let up, eventually they'll all be part of the collection :p

[Barth]

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12831/13171289_1.jpg?v=8CF36DEFA2FB740http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/remington_model_700_anniversary_edition_artistic_f raming1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/AlvarezPhoto/2007%20and%20later/M500a_sml.png

[Bawanna]

I do love a Birdshead handle. Have blued version of that Ruger and an Uberti that is just a delight.

I better photograph some lever guns tonight to show I'm old school I guess.

[dkmatthews]

I'm gonna say that I've always been a fan of keeping the number of different cartridges to a minimum. It's not hard to imagine a situation where you have a handgun on your belt and a long gun slung over your shoulder and it's just a helluva lot more convenient to only carry one type of ammo. So, with that admission out of the way, I believe everyone should have some sort of handgun/long gun pair that shares the same cartridge. If that means revolver & lever gun in .38/.357/.44 or a pistol/semi-auto carbine in 9mm/.40/.45, then so be it.

[chrish]

dkmatthews, yes, a PCC in 9mm is on my list, either the KelTec or the Beretta. Just not next on my list. I have standardized on 9mm at this point and I plan to continue down this path. I'm planning 1 more 9mm pistol, maybe two. At a minimum I will be picking up a CZ SP-01 tactical in the next year or so and then (maybe) I'd like to procure a 357 revolver that'll do 9mm, most likely a Chiappa Rhino 40ds.

but I decided to standardize on a single handgun caliber a number of years ago for this very reason. 9mm bullet design and effectiveness reached a point where I became MUCH more confident in the round, it's cheaper, it's (until this year) more plentiful. it's just easier to stock one caliber in a significant quantity rather than splitting my $ on multiple calibers. glad I did. wouldn't have weathered this recent ammo storm had I not.

My plan in the end is to be stockpiled in 9mm, 22lr, and 223/556. Everything else will just be 'for the fun of it' and only stock or buy only what I need to get by in those calibers.

[Alfonse]

You may want to consider this PCC, The Sig MPX-K. Of course, they say it is "LE Govt only." But, hey....

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/MPX-K-Detail-Hero.jpg

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig-mpx-k.aspx

[chrish]

You may want to consider this PCC, The Sig MPX-K. Of course, they say it is "LE Govt only." But, hey....

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig-mpx-k.aspx

They have a civvy version w/ the integral suppressor removed...but you could buy and slide it on. Has the same 6.5" barrel and then a massively long fixed 10" suppressor skeleton ready for the suppressor shroud.

http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig-mpx-c.aspx

Problem is that it only has a 6.5" barrel. If I'm running a PCC in 9mm, I want a 16" barrel to get some velocity...otherwise I could just slap a carbine kit on a handgun and be done w/ it.

I haven't seen these for sale anywhere yet, but at that price on the MPX? Nah. I could buy a primary and a backup Beretta and 500-1000 rounds of ammo...or 3 KelTecs.

But yea, by far maybe the coolest PCC out there lately. Would love to have one w/ the suppressor.

[Barth]

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/thumbnail/photo49/cb/5c/62ed3e33f0ae__1368478171000.jpg?tw=0&th=720&s=true&rs=falsehttps://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/thumbnail/photo28/cd/5c/dff6c23120ce__1367369271000.jpeg?tw=0&th=720&s=true&rs=false

[downtownv]

I gotta mini 14 (.223) that's collecting dust if your interested.
Well outfitted.

[b4uqzme]

Sorry about the handgun pic chrish. Like you I gotta buy some long guns so I can take their pictures. Notice I said "some". ;)

[getsome]

I was looking at DowntownV's mini 14 and it's a beaut alright but out of my price range right now....

I own a pre Remington era Marlin 336 in 30-30 and it to me is the perfect do everything rifle but if you want a bolt action take a look at a Ruger American....I really want this rifle and for the money I don't see how it can be beat....The Mossberg comes close to it for quality and bang for the buck but Ruger makes some very fine products and stands behind them very well...I haven't read many good things about the lower end Remington rifles like the 770, they have lowered the quality too much in order to price match other low priced entry level rifles...

I want one in .270 Winchester mainly because during this so called ammo shortage I could always find .270 at Wally World for some reason and there would be several boxes of .270 but NOTHING else....The .270 round is also pretty much a do it all caliber, it's flat shooting and has the punch for deer but not too much for varmint or target use....check out a Ruger American for yourself

[downtownv]

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/thumbnail/photo49/cb/5c/62ed3e33f0ae__1368478171000.jpg?tw=0&th=720&s=true&rs=falsehttps://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/thumbnail/photo28/cd/5c/dff6c23120ce__1367369271000.jpeg?tw=0&th=720&s=true&rs=false


Barth is she hiding a PM380 in a deep, deep, deep crotch holster?:music:

[Bawanna]

I was looking at DowntownV's mini 14 and it's a beaut alright but out of my price range right now....

I own a pre Remington era Marlin 336 in 30-30 and it to me is the perfect do everything rifle but if you want a bolt action take a look at a Ruger American....I really want this rifle and for the money I don't see how it can be beat....The Mossberg comes close to it for quality and bang for the buck but Ruger makes some very fine products and stands behind them very well...I haven't read many good things about the lower end Remington rifles like the 770, they have lowered the quality too much in order to price match other low priced entry level rifles...

I want one in .270 Winchester mainly because during this so called ammo shortage I could always find .270 at Wally World for some reason and there would be several boxes of .270 but NOTHING else....The .270 round is also pretty much a do it all caliber, it's flat shooting and has the punch for deer but not too much for varmint or target use....check out a Ruger American for yourself

Son in Law is looking for a 270. Only seen pictures of the Ruger which sadly didn't blow my dress up. Is it better in person? It could just be my old school thinking. I do like Rugers and really have little use for Remingtons, never have, not sure why.
May have to take another look at the American.

[getsome]

I went to Acadamy looking for ammo but they were out of .45 acp and .45 Colt at the time so I looked at some rifles while there...They had a Savage (forget the model) that was real nice and he also showed me the Ruger American and the two side by side seemed about the same, both actions were smooth and I couldnt see any glaring defects on either one...The Ruger came with a low end 3x9 scope and the Savage didn't....Both priced about the same $389 for the Savage and $399 for the Ruger and scope package...

Both would do the job and are about what you would expect from a rifle in this price range, both had black synthetic stocks but to me the ruger felt and pointed better but thats just me...Either one would make a fine knock about rifle without breaking the bank...I am partial to Ruger products and have had several Ruger guns that were well made and shot well...I have had dealings with Ruger's Customer service and found them to be excellent.....

I wanted to look at a Mossberg but they didn't have any in stock (didn't have many rifles of any type to speak of)...He did let me look at a Remington 770 and the bolt on that thing was hard to work and spongy at the same time, the stock didn't fit well and the quality just wasn't there and while it might be an ok rifle and do the job it just didn't do it for me....

[b4uqzme]

http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=162&category=8&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

Hmmmmm. You know I'm a sucker for stainless... I don't know if this thread will ultimately help chrish but it's looking like it might put another dent in my wallet.

[getsome]

OHHHHH SHINY!!!!.....While I was at Acadamy I also looked at the Rossi lever guns but they didn't have a stainless (didnt know they made um)...The one I looked at was a blued 30-30 and was real nice....I still want a M92 in .44 Mag for some reason, don't need one since I have a Marlin 336 but that Rossi was nice, very impressive for an imported gun and a stainless one would be the cats a$$

[chrish]

b4uqzme...Naw, this is all good. Both helpful and entertaining. Not like ANY of us REALLY need help spending money on firearms. I'm actually enjoying the lever part of this discussion now. My dream lever would be something blued but w/ a black synthectic stock. I know...heresy to not have wood. But I've seen a few here and there, done w/ a Ram Line black stock. Looks cool (I think). But my last venture down this path, I could not find that Ram Line stock for sale anywhere...maybe they don't make it anymore.

Something like this...
http://ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=47&t=291953

[Robert777]

Build a AR I enjoy putting them together. Kind of like Lego's for adults

[b4uqzme]

b4uqzme...Naw, this is all good. Both helpful and entertaining. Not like ANY of us REALLY need help spending money on firearms. I'm actually enjoying the lever part of this discussion now. My dream lever would be something blued but w/ a black synthectic stock. I know...heresy to not have wood. But I've seen a few here and there, done w/ a Ram Line black stock. Looks cool (I think). But my last venture down this path, I could not find that Ram Line stock for sale anywhere...maybe they don't make it anymore.

Something like this...
http://ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=47&t=291953

Breaks my heart to say this...but...that's hot. :w00t:

[chrish]

Build a AR I enjoy putting them together. Kind of like Lego's for adults

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm addicted to Legos as an adult. An AR would be DEATH to my bank account. No question. Same reason I to this day do not own an xbox or ps3. I spent my life in an arcade in the early 80s. I know what would happen. Not sayin' I won't buy and AR, but it has to be the LAST gun on the list or I'll never have $ for another gun...haha.


Breaks my heart to say this...but...that's hot. :w00t:

You think THAT is hot, check this one out. Shortened to 16.25, refinished matte black. Oooooooooo. Still, heresy, but Ooooooooo...

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/336/16556-i-got-my-30-30-back-smith.html

[ParabellumJ]

Any AR I've held is crazy light.
I'd likely go for a classic Colt LE6920.

+1 on the Colt 6920. I doubt you can find a better AR for the money. I would definitely stay away from a plastic AR. My opinion it's a gimmick gun and the little you save in weight isn't worth it. I recently saw a quality AR at my LGS for less than a grand and if I didn't already have the Colt I would seriously consider it. It was a Winham Weaponry. All mil spec, flat top receiver with A2 front sight. I guess what you decide depends on your taste and intended use, but my vote goes to the Black Rifle. Here is mine in FDE...
8520

[b4uqzme]

I was looking at DowntownV's mini 14 and it's a beaut alright but out of my price range right now....

I own a pre Remington era Marlin 336 in 30-30 and it to me is the perfect do everything rifle but if you want a bolt action take a look at a Ruger American....I really want this rifle and for the money I don't see how it can be beat....The Mossberg comes close to it for quality and bang for the buck but Ruger makes some very fine products and stands behind them very well...I haven't read many good things about the lower end Remington rifles like the 770, they have lowered the quality too much in order to price match other low priced entry level rifles...

I want one in .270 Winchester mainly because during this so called ammo shortage I could always find .270 at Wally World for some reason and there would be several boxes of .270 but NOTHING else....The .270 round is also pretty much a do it all caliber, it's flat shooting and has the punch for deer but not too much for varmint or target use....check out a Ruger American for yourself

Check out
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/369/products_id/42479

[b4uqzme]

What about a Marlin Model 9 Carbine? I know you like your 9mm...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=g1wYHa9sVxg

[b4uqzme]

This looks cool too...

http://www.slickguns.com/product/suomi-9mm-semi-auto-rifle-39999

[b4uqzme]

Or this...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EcAn406yeSM&feature=related

[les strat]

Do you hunt? If so, I'd recommend a good shotty. I have a Mossy 535 (same as 500, but has the ability to shoot 3 1/2 mags, and boy do they hurt!). They come in various specs like blue/wood, or camo, etc. They are light and easy to carry. They do not kick bad with 2 3/4 or 3", but with 3.5", beware. Light ain't good in some instances.

Or maybe a good 30/06 or .308 for long range punching and hunting larger game? With these you can have a deer slayer/sn!per rifle all in one! My suggestion is Savage. Their barrel accuracy compares to custom-built rifles, and they are very affordable.

If you are wanting a defense rifle, I'd probably buy an AK if you ever think you might want one. BO does have the sole power to stop importation through EO, and these would be #1 on the list to stop importing. Get it now. And bulk Russian ammo by the case.

Then there is the old AR. You can get a reg Colt 6920 at WM for not much over $1K, and you will never have regrets about it as it is the standard. Ammo should be more available very soon. Hopefully.

[RRP]

Les, any reason why you recommended an AK before an AR? Just curious.

[les strat]

Les, any reason why you recommended an AK before an AR? Just curious.

Because BO is constrained by the Constitution that he cannot ban weapons by executive order, BUT he does have the authority to completely stop importation of foreign weapons. Hence my "get an AK now" suggestion. They both very well may be hard or impossible to get in the near future... worse than the last 5 months, but my money would be on our wonderful pres stopping importation of the com block rifles.

I have both and AK and an AR, and I love both ;)

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q706/bonehead911/grouphug_zps29674356.jpg

[RRP]

Ahh....get 'em while you can.

I have ARs, but no AK. If I can only get one, should I go with a 47, or a 74?

[chrish]

les,

Don't hunt, my desire for a bolt rifle is ONLY as a range toy...leisurely shooting. I think I'd prefer that over an AR on the bench. But, the AR would definitely work for that, and double for a defense rifle. So it's been a real tough call. At this point, I'm really leaning toward the bolt gun, particularly the Mossberg MVP. Uses AR mags, relatively light, reviews are not spectacular but decent. I don't own a spectacular firearm, they are all utilitarian, so no issue there. I may hold on this for a bit to see if the Mossberg MVP Patrol in 300 blackout actually shows up on gunbroker. While I'd be fine w/ the 223/556, if I'm gonna get an AR later anyway, having the bolt gun in 300 blackout (threaded) would be super cool down the road.

As to a good shotgun...and an AR...both are on the list and likely 'next' in line after this purchase. Having a .22lr, bolt, AR, shotgun should sufficiently round out my needs for long guns. After these, back to pistol purchases...thank goodness. Rifles just don't do it for me.

[les strat]

les,

Don't hunt, my desire for a bolt rifle is ONLY as a range toy...leisurely shooting. I think I'd prefer that over an AR on the bench. But, the AR would definitely work for that, and double for a defense rifle. So it's been a real tough call. At this point, I'm really leaning toward the bolt gun, particularly the Mossberg MVP. Uses AR mags, relatively light, reviews are not spectacular but decent. I don't own a spectacular firearm, they are all utilitarian, so no issue there. I may hold on this for a bit to see if the Mossberg MVP Patrol in 300 blackout actually shows up on gunbroker. While I'd be fine w/ the 223/556, if I'm gonna get an AR later anyway, having the bolt gun in 300 blackout (threaded) would be super cool down the road.

As to a good shotgun...and an AR...both are on the list and likely 'next' in line after this purchase. Having a .22lr, bolt, AR, shotgun should sufficiently round out my needs for long guns. After these, back to pistol purchases...thank goodness. Rifles just don't do it for me.

Have you seen the Mossberg FLEX shotguns? They won tactical gun of the year for the NRA. They are a do it all transformer shotgun that can go from 18.5" tactical to turkey gun. They read pretty cool. Maybe check those out.

Overall I like Mossy shotguns. They just work. There are a lot fancier and more expensive shotguns out there, but I've never had one misfire in tens of thousands of rounds out of any Mossy I've owned shot, and hunted with since I was a kid. I have three now, the 535 for bird hunting, a pistol grip 500 persuader (truck gun!), and a 500 tactical persuader shown in the photo, all 12 ga.

[les strat]

Ahh....get 'em while you can.

I have ARs, but no AK. If I can only get one, should I go with a 47, or a 74?

Me? 47 all day ;)

30 rounds equivalent to 30-30 on tap ain't bad.

[chrish]

Have you seen the Mossberg FLEX shotguns? They won tactical gun of the year for the NRA. They are a do it all transformer shotgun that can go from 18.5" tactical to turkey gun. They read pretty cool. Maybe check those out.

I've looked at Mossberg shotguns, but not specifically the FLEX. But thanks, I'll do that and see what's out there when time comes for the shotgun. I had actually decided on a Mossberg 930 SPX back before all the prices went nuts over the last 6-9 months, but they haven't come back down on those as much as other stuff for some reason. Just can't see putting that much in a shotgun now. Even before it was a stretch. So something like a 500, or a flex, or the afore-mentioned CZ 612 (under $300) are good options.

I noticed they have also gone FLEX w/ the MVP bolt guns too this year. The patrol versions come in standard blackeryish and also in the FLEX. All those parts are interchangeable even w/ the shotgun FLEX stuff (afaik).