New Load Don't Work :(

[OldLincoln]

Quite a while back I was wrapping up a range session and the guy in line before me had his target filled with paper-punch type holes, unlike my ragged ones. I asked him about it and he showed me his truncated nose rounds. I was buying anyway so I checked them out to find they are the same price as round nose (no shoulders). So I bought them .45 200gn FN. After getting advice, I Loaded with W231 at 5.4gns and an OAL of 1.215.

Today, I shot some - very few that is. They chambered okay and shot okay, but wouldn't eject, not a one. The slide simply didn't go back far enough to kick them out. The cases looked funny, one side shiny and the other discolored from heat, that black, purple, smudgy look. Cases looked okay inside and weren't deformed that I could tell. I mic'd one and while a few .000' larger about what figure is normal.

The only thing different between this load and my 230gn is the 230gn gets 5.1gn of 231 while this was 5.4gn and it's 200gn bullet. 5.4 is the middle of the Hodgen chart between a min of 5.1 and max of 5.9.

The discoloration makes me hesitate to load heavier and that leaves OAL. I haven't seen this one before so need help.

[Bawanna]

I waited till I got home to look at my books. The OAL os a bit shorter than I did but not much. I been going 1.220 to 1.230 so thats in there.

I just loaded some 185's and used 7.0 gr of 231. I use 5.5 for 230 gr.

Might have to up the charge some, maybe not enough gusto?

My 185 loads worked very well last weekend. Made them for my PM45 and sons XDS. Very accurate.

[CJB]

One thing to consider, is the amount of the bullet that fills the case is less on the 200g, so you've got a double whammy of less recoil, and less pressure, load for load.

You probably want to run a bit hotter, closer to the "max", but also keep in mind that max for a TC bullet is often listed for use in a tuned 1911 with a gold cup spring strength. In a Kahr, its gonna need to be robust to work with the stock spring.

Kahr, btw, likes those seated out... in my experience. About as long as you can get, and still have them load in the magazine

[mr surveyor]

just curious .... how's the neck tension and crimp on those rounds?

[Ikeo74]

Quite a while back I was wrapping up a range session and the guy in line before me had his target filled with paper-punch type holes, unlike my ragged ones. I asked him about it and he showed me his truncated nose rounds. I was buying anyway so I checked them out to find they are the same price as round nose (no shoulders). So I bought them .45 200gn FN. After getting advice, I Loaded with W231 at 5.4gns and an OAL of 1.215.

Today, I shot some - very few that is. They chambered okay and shot okay, but wouldn't eject, not a one. The slide simply didn't go back far enough to kick them out. The cases looked funny, one side shiny and the other discolored from heat, that black, purple, smudgy look. Cases looked okay inside and weren't deformed that I could tell. I mic'd one and while a few .000' larger about what figure is normal.

The only thing different between this load and my 230gn is the 230gn gets 5.1gn of 231 while this was 5.4gn and it's 200gn bullet. 5.4 is the middle of the Hodgen chart between a min of 5.1 and max of 5.9.

The discoloration makes me hesitate to load heavier and that leaves OAL. I haven't seen this one before so need help.
When the charge is too low it doesn't create enough pressure to seal the case to the chamber. This allows gas to escape outside the case which causes the discoloration and the poor ejection. The fix is to increase the charge up to 5.7 or 5.8 on 200 gr.

[OldLincoln]

The Hodgen chart shows for 200gn cast LSWC; OAL 1.1225; W231 start 4.4g max 5.6g. I had 5.4g W231 and OAL of 1.215.

As for crimping, my seating die only seats. I crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Which doesn't seem to be too tight. Could it be too loose and not build up enough pressure to seal the chamber? The very top of the brass is .472, uncrimped is .475. I torn 1 down and there is barely a sign of crimping on the copper without a break.

Unless I hear different I'll up the powder and just fit the OAL which should be around 1.262. I'll make a few small batches of different powder gn for testing. I really don't get the why of using more powder for a lighter load.

[Bawanna]

The Hodgen chart shows for 200gn cast LSWC; OAL 1.1225; W231 start 4.4g max 5.6g. I had 5.4g W231 and OAL of 1.215.

As for crimping, my seating die only seats. I crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Which doesn't seem to be too tight. Could it be too loose and not build up enough pressure to seal the chamber? The very top of the brass is .472, uncrimped is .475. I torn 1 down and there is barely a sign of crimping on the copper without a break.

Unless I hear different I'll up the powder and just fit the OAL which should be around 1.262. I'll make a few small batches of different powder gn for testing. I really don't get the why of using more powder for a lighter load.

It's all about pressure. Lighter bullets you can use a bit more powder to speed things up. You mentioned here cast bullet. Were the round nose you'd used before cast also?

That puts things back the other way, lead you want to keep under 900 or 1000 or you'll get leading in the barrel.

I'm also wondering if he had some backing on his target to produce better holes. At the range last weekend a fella said he was glad to see my targets kind of torn and almost keyholed so it wasn't just him. Figure just paper kind of blowing and angling away contributed to non nice round holes.

[Ikeo74]

Double check to see if you charge of 231 is what you think it is. Then tighten the crimp by readjusting the die if necessary or screwing it down some. Make just a few loads and shoot them to se if they now eject.

[OldLincoln]

I've always been told to crimp enough to hold the bullet in the case which is what I did. Now you have me wondering if the crimp is too loose can the bullet squirt out before the pressure builds enough to seat the case inside the chamber, explaining the scorch marks.

I'll add that to the mix as I prepare baggies with various combinations of recipe. I just finished pulling the bullets (over 100 of them) saving the powder and re-belling the cases. The bullets are so lightly crimped I'll reuse them.

[AIRret]

This discussion has made me wonder if we need a LEE crimping die? We have the Hornady press and we just use the bullet seating die for the last step.
We haven't had any problems with any of our loads so I think we will be ok until we eventually load some 38's.

[Ikeo74]

The Lee crimping die is for the people that can't adjust the other brands seating/crimping dies properly. The only problem is that the Lee Crimping die is actually harder to adjust properly than the other brands seating/crimping dies.

[AIRret]

The Lee crimping die is for the people that can't adjust the other brands seating/crimping dies properly. The only problem is that the Lee Crimping die is actually harder to adjust properly than the other brands seating/crimping dies.

Thanks for the information.
I'm always learning on this forum....

[jocko]

when one stops learning, basically he is dead. Just sayin

[Bawanna]

In my infinitely small mind I don't know where Ikeo is coming from. I would agree pretty much it's not needed for anything you can roll crimp. 38, 357, 44 etc but for taper crimp the Lee is a big plus to me and certainly ain't no big trick to adjust. In fact I don't think you can adjust it too tight.

I like the fact that it keeps the case fully supported and outside sizes the case as it's withdrawn from the die.

But I may be missing something too. It's happened before once or twice.

[CJB]

The Lee crimping die is for the people that can't adjust the other brands seating/crimping dies properly. The only problem is that the Lee Crimping die is actually harder to adjust properly than the other brands seating/crimping dies.

I beg to differ but then again some foljs cant find their mouf wit a fork neither .

[Ikeo74]

I beg to differ but then again some foljs cant find their mouf wit a fork neither .
Good one! That's why I use a spoon.;)

[mr surveyor]

I use the Lee FCD on all my handgun loads ... 38spl, 357 mag, 44mag and 45acp, and have had absolutely no problems. One thing I have figured out when loading cast boolits, at least from my still somewhat limited experience, is to be sparing with the expander/flaring. I open the case mouth up only enough to prevent shaving (too much) lead. I always get a good brass/boolit seal and good case expansion, and rarely have any powder residue blow back. I also still tend to make almost all my loads in the mid-range of the load data.

[Bawanna]

I use the Lee FCD on all my handgun loads ... 38spl, 357 mag, 44mag and 45acp, and have had absolutely no problems. One thing I have figured out when loading cast boolits, at least from my still somewhat limited experience, is to be sparing with the expander/flaring. I open the case mouth up only enough to prevent shaving (too much) lead. I always get a good brass/boolit seal and good case expansion, and rarely have any powder residue blow back. I also still tend to make almost all my loads in the mid-range of the load data.

I do that too, the less you work that case mouth the more life you'll get out of the case and I'm a cheap bastard.

I'm gonna try using a spoon now too, might leave less marks and be less painful to my face and area's in the general area of my mouth.

Ikeo, I'm still curious where your thoughts are on this, want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong. It works for me and I think it's very forgiving.

[Tilos]

Hi, my name is Tilos...I'm here in this twelve step program because I'm a Lee Factory Crimp die user :o:2rolleyes:
:behindsofa:

[OldLincoln]

Well, I use it because Bawanna told me to. Just lucky I guess that he didn't tell me to chew tabacky or whatever they do with snuff. Anyway, he's never let me down and I like the LFCD. It's like taking wrinkles out of the case and if they made that for women's faces they would be rich!

In the past I've always done a little crimp with the seater die then did the LFCD. This time only the LFCD. For my big experiment, I will include a couple rounds at the same powder 5.4 and only crimp them tighter to see if that is a factor. Then I'll do 5 at 5.6 crimped light and heavy, same for 5.8 and 5.9. I didn't mention it before but I'm shooting a G30SF which may have a heavier slide but not as stiff.

[Ikeo74]

Did you weigh any of the charges that you took out of the pulled ammo? Or did you check your scale to see if you had it set right and loaded the amount of grains that you are posting and cross referance the load by using a different scale? Just curious, because it seems the old ammo should have cycled your gun.

[OldLincoln]

No I didn't. I checked the load as usual over and over before starting, even averaging it over 10 loads and then again singularly (yes the fan was off). Then I checked the last of 100 loads and it also was exactly on 5.4. I also have a .5gn lead piece I keep in a bottle to test the scale. I guess you could say I'm a bit freaky about powder.

I also agree that the 5.4 should have cycled and that's why I started this thread. That's also why I going to first fire 5.4 with a tighter crimp, although I've been told that a soft crimp is better than hard. Logic tells me it likely is better after a minimum point as the Myth Buster show of ammo in the fire showed. A lot of fssst and little action without a chamber. Be interesting to put a round in a revolver with the bullet just sitting in the case. I suspect it might be a pssst also. That's something I'd think CJB would have done before.

[Tilos]

With most reloader's starting loads on the lower end of the powder charge for safety, I found most problems are solved by increasing the powder charge, and for me, the amount of crimp should not be the variable that determines function or accuracy.
The crimp for revolver and auto are two different animals and comparing them makes no sense to me.
JMO

[OldLincoln]

Have I mentioned how much I HATE the Lee Hand Primer???!! I admit my hands don't function like the newer models, but if your hands have been in the places mine have yours probably aren't any better. To begin with, getting those stinkin primers in the tray is nutz. They could have made the tray a iddy bit larger and I could turn the tray over and set the primer package in it. But no, they have it so I get to contort with it, then spend the next 45 minutes searching for the 3 primers that took off for Mars. Next, Once corralled and in the tray, I can't get the lid on the tray as it hangs up, then a plastic tab breaks off and yup, there go the primers again! Slippery little suckers they are.

So again, the primers are in the tray and the lid held fast with a couple wraps of duct tape. I insert a case in the holder, but the primers all ran to the other side of the corral. I tip the tray only to discover you have to work those doggies around a fence and down the chute to the loading ramp. Of course being large primers they bunch up at the chute mouth and I end up shaking the poop out of it. Good thing duct tape is tough.

Finally I think I'm getting the hang of this again - I've reloaded thousands before with the same giddyup, but forgot how, and now my hands are cramped and I have to use both just to shove that primer up the case's arse. I clean them well but they shure are tight little buggers. After only 4 days I now have 600 cases primed. Good thing I work cheap!

PS: That impact bullet puller sucks also. I didn't know it doubled as a powder shaker. Good thing we don't smoke cause my hair had powder all in it after breaking apart 100 loads.

[Bawanna]

You make me laugh friend. I love my Lee hand primer. I just uncover half the box of primers and drop them in. Shake it a bit to get em all right side up and put the lid on.

I can't seat them with one hand either I kind of cross my thumbs to push the lever.

Running my Hornady progressive I don't use the hand primer much anymore.

I too hate the bullet puller, pain in the backside.

PS- Primers used to come in smaller boxes where you could do just what your suggested. I still have some CCI primers in a nice compact small box that work great in the Lee.

They have hand primers that take little primer strips, I don't like the idea of them much since you don't have any options but to use the hand primer.

[OldLincoln]

I went looking for a better way to pull bullets and saw a video where the guy replaced the holder thing (with the rubber band around it) with a Lee shell holder. Of course now that I'm done I see it, but I'm thinking perhaps that would keep the powder inside the head of the puller. Be nice not to leave a fire hazard around my workbench. If the Collette thing grabs without damaging the bullet that would be even better.

I'm doing a hundred primers a day now so my hands survive. Tomorrow I see the hand doc again and maybe this time he will get they cortisone shot in the right spot. I've been storing the primed cases in my plastic storage jars. They are safe in there aren't they? I figured being seated in the brass case should prevent bad thibgs from happening. If not I'll put them in the boxes for completed rounds. Would appreciate advice on that.

[mr surveyor]

at least half of my brass is cleaned/sized/flared/primed and ready for powder and boolits and stored in zip lock bags in batches of 50-100. I have a tendency to deprime, resize and drop my brass into the US cleaner as soon as I have a 50 count box (or two-three) from a range trip. The next night or so, when it's all dry and ready, I hit them with the expander die, pop primers in and bag 'em up for the next loading day opportunity. Probably always have close to a thousand pieces of brass of various calibers in reserve in that condition.

[Ikeo74]

Have I mentioned how much I HATE the Lee Hand Primer???!! I admit my hands don't function like the newer models, but if your hands have been in the places mine have yours probably aren't any better. To begin with, getting those stinkin primers in the tray is nutz. They could have made the tray a iddy bit larger and I could turn the tray over and set the primer package in it. But no, they have it so I get to contort with it, then spend the next 45 minutes searching for the 3 primers that took off for Mars. Next, Once corralled and in the tray, I can't get the lid on the tray as it hangs up, then a plastic tab breaks off and yup, there go the primers again! Slippery little suckers they are.

So again, the primers are in the tray and the lid held fast with a couple wraps of duct tape. I insert a case in the holder, but the primers all ran to the other side of the corral. I tip the tray only to discover you have to work those doggies around a fence and down the chute to the loading ramp. Of course being large primers they bunch up at the chute mouth and I end up shaking the poop out of it. Good thing duct tape is tough.

Finally I think I'm getting the hang of this again - I've reloaded thousands before with the same giddyup, but forgot how, and now my hands are cramped and I have to use both just to shove that primer up the case's arse. I clean them well but they shure are tight little buggers. After only 4 days I now have 600 cases primed. Good thing I work cheap!

PS: That impact bullet puller sucks also. I didn't know it doubled as a powder shaker. Good thing we don't smoke cause my hair had powder all in it after breaking apart 100 loads.
You know Lee makes a square hand primmer now that works just the old round ones and with the same shellholders. It holds 100 from a square box of primers. I have the old round ones and here is how I use it. 1) Load only 50 at a time. 1) Slide the box open to expose only 50 promers. 2) Turn the primer upside down over the open primer box. 3) Hold them togather while turning both right side up. This drops 50 into the tray. 4) Turn over the primers that are not anvil side up. 5) Put the lid on to secure the primers. 6) Tilt the hand primer chute side down so all the primers are on the chute side. 7) Keep the primer pointed down while priming the shells and point the cases away from you when loading. 8) Shake it sideways every 5 primers loaded to keep them in the chute. Right after priming a case, keep the handle squeezed when you shake the tray to keep primers from floping out the top of the chute. 9) Always load all 50 brfore stopping. Ask me questions if that is not clear.
Note: Use a 1" piece of scotch tape to hold the lid at the broken tab side. Stack the primed cases primer side up in a loading block or a empty shell box tray. This will keep them dust free.

[Bawanna]

Precisely what I do, works fine.

[OldLincoln]

Imprecisely what I do also. I have the square primer tray and the Winchester primers leave 3 (of 100) primers on the ledge turning it back over and if steady enough I can usually, much of the time, scoot them into the bottom of the tray. I've rigged some of that clear thick shipping tape to keep the lid on plus a short strip of scotch tape around the corner with the missing tab.

I really like the look of the RCBS hand priming tool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wshO3e9bR9E) that has a square tray with a docking port and hatch on one corner that mates with the hand press. Seems to take out the shaking etc. If you need to remove it or before installing it the sliding hatch keeps the primers in the tray. Of course it's out of stock everywhere I would buy it, so I'll stick with the Lee. Only 2500 cases to go anyway.

[DKD]

I agree with the others here that this is definitely a pressure issue. I have had a similar situation with my lever guns shooting cowboy type lead loads in my Uberti Winchester 1873 using lead bullets with a mild roll crimp over 9 grains of Alliant "Unique" pistol powder.
Try a heavier tapered crimp and up the charge slightly and you'll get a better burn. You are getting blow by which is caused by the hot powder gases escaping and darkening your shell casings. The boys are right these Kahr pistols like hotter ammo and they do have stout recoil springs.

[OldLincoln]

DKD, we're on the same page. Yes I did get blow by with scorched cases. In my big test when I get around to it, 1 factor will be the same 5.4gn powder with a tighter crimp, also a sample with heavier charge and the loose crimp. Since I have time I'm enjoying most everything about this experiment except the hand priming and !#$% impact puller taking down the bad loads (all done now).

[DKD]

Please do let us know how the experiment comes out and if it solves your problem and good luck.

[OldLincoln]

"They" say you should learn something new every day to keep young. I learned a couple things today that made me feel dumb. Not the same thing.

1. I bitched about the Lee Hand Primer getting primers turned sideways in the throat between the tray and body. I noticed today it happened a lot more as I got tired. Turned out I was putting my thumb on the top of the tray and as I squeezed the tray mechanism slid down allowing roof space in that throat for the primers to turn. Repositioned my thumb and no more cockeyed primers.

2. Because of the thumb reposition (above), it was uncomfortable and difficult to keep angled so it would feed properly. I finally turned it 180* so the tray is over the hand and the handle is pressed be the web or heal of my hand, not the fingers. Easier to squeeze, automatically angles right, AND points it away from my body. Plus I can actually see the primers move into position. Only downside is the handle pains the hand a bit. Using it that way makes me wonder why they aren't made for that to begin with.

3. Learned this yesterday... Rubber bands hold the lid on the primer tray better than the tabs. Just put them on going each way and the lid is happy.

Because of the increasing hand pain over time, I decided I have to move away from the Lee Hand Primer and checked out the RCBS hand primer which is reputed to work better. As I priming today it occurred to me that it doesn't make sense to go from one hand primer to another? So, after checking discussions and reviews for bench primers I settled on the RCBS Bench Priming Tool (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NOORXE/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I ordered one few minutes ago and it should be here the end of next week. It is more than I wanted to spend but the time has come so I did it.

I'm interested in what you all have to say about the bench press. Keep in mind the hand unit is not an option because of my bad thumb. Also, here in my office I have a custom mat that covers 80% of so of the floor space and it is grounded in 2 locations (computer work). I've never had a static spark in the 15 years or so I've had it and will rig a ground wire to the primer tubes. Remember I'm the guy who build a fireproof powder storage box you (lovingly) scoffed at so much.

So have you used one? Seen one? Heard stuff about them? I can still cancel my order if I discover they harbor terrorists and nasty surprises.

[OldLincoln]

This may take a while so new thread.

[Tilos]

I don't recall what press you have but you can prime with most presses and could be an option for you.

[Bawanna]

Rock Chucker. I thought I sent the primer feed tubes and priming set up was all attached but maybe I didn't, been a long time.
I also recommended the hand primer which I think now that he's using it right he'll like much better I hope.

[OldLincoln]

My (Bawanna's) Rock Chucker did come with the primer gizmo and no tube which isn't a big deal. I almost bought a $15 tube but said what the heck, for only $75 more I can get a whole separate tool. Well, not really, I am discovering I don't multitask well lately and while I did primer a good sample, decided it felt awkward so didn't take to it. The new bench primer has shipped and it's paid for so it's mine if the shipper doesn't get lost.

On another note, I tested my new loads today and discovered the 5.4gn doesn't work at all but the 5.6 - 6.0gn works well, but all still scorch the outside of the case. Once I get the OAL worked out I'll likely go with 5.8gn as it's in the middle of the workable loads. I thought I'd start a new thread on OAL but not tonight because I am more than a little frustrated with it now.

[Tilos]

The tubes you get with the bench primer will probably work on the rockchucker too:eek:.
Just what you need another variable:D
If the load functions and is accurate, the tumbler will make short work of those dirty cases, as it is common:madgrin:

[Ikeo74]

The tubes you get with the bench primer will probably work on the rockchucker too:eek:.
Just what you need another variable:D
If the load functions and is accurate, the tumbler will make short work of those dirty cases, as it is common:madgrin:
Forget using the Rockchucker for priming. The new table primer will be the cat's meow. (great) You will be very happy with it. No one I know still primes on a single stage press unless they are only going to load 10 bullets or less.

[Tilos]

Forget using the Rockchucker for priming. The new table primer will be the cat's meow. (great) You will be very happy with it. No one I know still primes on a single stage press unless they are only going to load 10 bullets or less.

Never said it was efficient, just less painful, and another option, given OL's situation.
No one I know still uses a single stage press, at all, for anything, except OL :D:cool:

[Bawanna]

I still use the same Rock Chucker for any rifle, and I do small quantities on it. Stuff I don't shoot a whole lot of. 38, 357, 30/30 etc.

I use the hand primer but I used the press primer for many many years. It efficient. I just preferred to feel the primers going in more with the hand primer.

The Lock N Load has spoiled me, it really spits em out which is what I need for practice 45. Don't have to spend every night all week to load for a weekend.

[OldLincoln]

I love Bawanna's RC! Still can't believe he up an gave it to me, but like Dad's Colt, it will always be Bawanna's Rock Chucker to me.

I've watched videos of the progressives in use and know in my bones folks would get hurt if I used one of those. For me it would be a big act of faith that everything supposed to get done was getting done. I'm laughing at myself thinking I'd probably do like my wife does when the printer jams. Just hit enter a hundred or so times and it will print, right? Grrr. So, in my case, powder is running over the tops and all over the table. The turret didn't turn so pull the lever again!

[Bawanna]

You definitely want to have your wits about you on the progressive. All is well once you get it set up until something happens, run out of primers, or you got a wrong case going thru so you pull it and and have to remember what happened to each case in the chain.
It's like the slightest little error can just snow ball and turn into a mountain.

It's not tough, you just gotta pay attention and keep track of whats going on.

It would be even worse with automatic case feeders and bullet feeders I imagine.

[Tilos]

I still have and use my "old" rockchucker, it's right there on my bench, under my 5 station piggyback progressive:yo:

Yeh, nothing ever comes out even, when I'm done I run cases thru to the prime station (9mm), and use them to fill in when a 380 slips by and gets primed, or something else happens.
That and I now use a lee powder measure, so no case, no powder, and I can push a primed case up into the powder measure by hand to charge it, if needed.
And like most all progressives, the case can be removed and replaced from any station.
All that and I still try to keep focused, no radio or TV, but still have gotten into a "jam" now and then but try to have a work around for the common ones.
I have an RCBS Junior press for re-sizing cast bullets, etc.:D

[OldLincoln]

I intended to start a new thread to get into my OAL issue. In searching for the "what's going on here" with my Round Nose Flat Point (RNFP) feed failures, I dug deeper into others experience with these loads. I had remembered Bawanna and others here talking about the round should slide all the way in and simply drop out when inverted. I found reference to that called the "Plunk Test" that said the same thing.

I tried the unfired loads from my last batch and sure enough they didn't fully chamber when dropped - not even close. If pushed hard they would seat but I had to use a rubber tipped pencil to get them out. They measured 1.218 OAL with a crimp of .470. After many tries to get the exact length I found that 1.210 fits while 1.211 does not. I tried different crimps to see if that mattered but it didn't so I'll stick with .470 which has been my standard for .45.

I scratched my head thinking of why the short OAL was necessary. I found that Round Nose immediately taper down from the case lip as do my HST rounds. However the RNFP continue straight for a tad before the slope starts. That tells me, well hell, I don't really know what that tells me except I need to load at 1.210 which seems pretty short, but okay by the Hodgdon chart.

With apology to my friends that already know this, I thought I'd list a rudimentary guide to the Plunk Test without the fancy stuff. To pass the test your loaded rounds must do ALL of the following:

With the barrel out of the slide and clean, drop your test round into the chamber mouth lined up with the bore.
1. It must land with a plunk sound indicating it seated before hitting the lands.
2. The rear end of the case cannot be above the barrel hood.
3. Push case further into the chamber, it should not move.
4. When you tip up the barrel the case falls out of the chamber on it's own.

Simple but important when building a new round. I'm regretting buying the RNFP instead of my usual 230gn RN. These are being a PITA to set up and take more powder than the RN. The holes are cleaner but then I'm not exactly a target shooter.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this before I continue my test loads.

[Ikeo74]

Give your OAL a little slack for error of the press and set for 1.200. Remember your max was 1.210

[OldLincoln]

Sounds like a plan Ike. I made the change in my notes. If all agree on the 1.200, I'll make up a few rounds to test.

[OldLincoln]

Test fired 10 rounds today and they worked fine. Never thought it would be such a hassle to build up a working load. But here it is:

X-Treme 200gn flat nose (see pic below), 5.8g W231. OAL 1.175

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Reloading/P1020637_zpsc8766c46.jpg (http://s762.photobucket.com/user/OldLincoln/media/Reloading/P1020637_zpsc8766c46.jpg.html)

I plunked many dummy rounds into the chamber and finally wore it down to an OAL of 1.175. This sounds crazy short but it is what works. Why it works is because the extended straight shoulder of the bullet disappears inside the case and the remaing is sloped. Anything over about 1.79 hangs when pressed into the chamber and turned over.

Going to load 100 and shoot those and a final test before doing the rest.