More airline passengers showing up armed

[Jules Winnfield]

Interesting read for all firearms owners, especially those of us who CC.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AIRLINE_PASSENGERS_GUNS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-02-16-07-26


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[ltxi]

I hate tourist season!

[Longitude Zero]

Going inside an airport with a firearm that you have not secured for traveling is just STUPID.

CCW laws notwithstanding.

[ltxi]

I Hate Tourist Season!!!

[ltxi]

Going inside an airport with a firearm that you have not secured for traveling is just STUPID.

CCW laws notwithstanding.

Only if you try to go through security with it. Otherwise acceptable in accordance with state law.

[ORSalesRep]

Interesting read for all firearms owners, especially those of us who CC.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AIRLINE_PASSENGERS_GUNS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-02-16-07-26


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I do not even believe this story. People cannot possibly be that stupid. This stinks like another story run by an anti-gun reporter distorting facts to give gun owners an bad name.

[ltxi]

I do not even believe this story. People cannot possibly be that stupid. This stinks like another story run by an anti-gun reporter distorting facts to give gun owners an bad name.

They are that stupid. Believe me, they are that stupid!

[RevRay]

Well, maybe if the TSA would start profiling people who actually look like they might be a terrorist, rather than grandmothers and disabled kids in strollers, then maybe people would feel more safe and leave their guns at home.

[ltxi]

I have no issue at all with TSA as they exist today. In fact, nothing but compliments for the front line security staff.

[downtownv]

I have no issue at all with TSA as they exist today. In fact, nothing but compliments for the front line security staff.

The TSA agents were Mall security prior to the government job they got!:p

[ltxi]

whatever...

[OldLincoln]

My opinion only... The rules are the rules and if you attempt to carry through security you are in trouble. Even the TSA says they believe the people when they say they simply forgot they were carrying, and I can attest to that as I seldom notice I am carrying anymore. That's what happens when you carry full time, even around the house. It's like shoes, if you always wear shoes you know when you are barefoot. But do you think about your shoes in the normal moments of the day?

I know ... but going to the airport is special! Perhaps for you and me (now) but when I was on the road (pre 9/11) getting on a plane was as familiar as getting into a car. I was focused on my meetings, and stuff like that. I've gone off without socks, belt and other stuff because it wasn't a big deal. Now I almost need a checklist to remember the unholster before going into a post office. Usually I remember after getting in line and figure "what the hell".

Back to the airport, what I don't know is if they allow you to leave the line and secure you gun in the car. I'd hate to think they just take it from you and no getting it back. I'd miss my plane before I give away my bun to the TSA. You can always get another flight.

[ltxi]

I believe they're pretty unforgiving wrt confiscation of loaded handguns. One possible exception may be the Pre-Check line.

I got pinged for a carry knife a few years ago that was in my carry-on. I'd been on a vacation road trip and hadn't properly sanitized my luggage prior to going back to work. TSA gave me the option on that one.

[muggsy]

When you fly you can't carry. The criminals know this and target tourists. It doesn't surprise me that someone made a mark by his government might try to protect himself. I'm with Archie Bunker on this one. Every adult passenger on a plane should be required to carry. That would stop all of the hijacking and we could do away with the TSA. I'm not taking my shoes off for anyone.

[ltxi]

........... I'm not taking my shoes off for anyone.

Not even for the hot pervert chick just down the street who wants to start out by licking your toes?

Sorry, sorta. A freaky flashback to San Antonio 1967.

[Longitude Zero]

Back to the airport, what I don't know is if they allow you to leave the line and secure you gun in the car. I'd hate to think they just take it from you and no getting it back. I'd miss my plane before I give away my bun to the TSA. You can always get another flight.

They do not and frankly should not. The excuse of "being on autopilot" is malarkey. Carrying a concealed piece should not be automatic in thought. It should be a conscious decision.

Once you have entered the checkpoint it is too late. Weapon confiscated, baggage searched, trip delayed, and your name is watch listed for life.

[knkali]

They do not and frankly should not. The excuse of "being on autopilot" is malarkey. Carrying a concealed piece should not be automatic in thought. It should be a conscious decision.

Once you have entered the checkpoint it is too late. Weapon confiscated, baggage searched, trip delayed, and your name is watch listed for life.

I respectfully disagree. Autopilot is exactly what you want. That is why we train train train.

[Longitude Zero]

And knkali I respectfully disagree with your abbreviated statement. We train train train to be able to make a DECISION and TAKE CONSCIOUS ACTION in a very short compressed time frame. It is not to react like a Pavlovian dog and shoot upon receveing a stimuli.

The act of shooting is very simple. The decision is not and should NEVER be automatic. If conscious thought, however quickly it is applied, is not in the process the shooter better have a good criminal defense and civil attorney on speed, dial. To do otherwise is to be subjected to the "Startle Response". And that will get you killed or imprisioned.

[ltxi]

Me thinks there may be a semantics issue goin' on here.

Muscle memory be good. Brain still required. My thoughts on it.

[muggsy]

There is no such thing as muscle memory. Your muscles can't remember a damn thing. Only your brain has a memory. Try to remember that. :)

[ltxi]

Understand your point and the nuance but still a semantics issue.

[knkali]

And knkali I respectfully disagree with your abbreviated statement. We train train train to be able to make a DECISION and TAKE CONSCIOUS ACTION in a very short compressed time frame. It is not to react like a Pavlovian dog and shoot upon receveing a stimuli.

The act of shooting is very simple. The decision is not and should NEVER be automatic. If conscious thought, however quickly it is applied, is not in the process the shooter better have a good criminal defense and civil attorney on speed, dial. To do otherwise is to be subjected to the "Startle Response". And that will get you killed or imprisioned.

Very nice argument LZ. I'll try to make my point better. When you put your car keys in your pocket, you don't consciously think about them any more do you? Yet when you need to start your car, you know exactly where they are. Same with your weapon system. I can see how people forget that they are armed just as people do not think about their car keys and where they are. However, if you needed to open your trunk in an emergency using the key, your ability to retrieve the key becomes "automatic". I guess I should have said in my post that is why you carry carry carry instead of train train train.

Your point about training to make a decision, especially as grave as using your weapon, is one I have no argument against and is something that I need to consider more. Any advise you can give to civilians that would help them secure that kind of training in a civilian capacity would be priceless. I do think that the LE decision training and civilian decision process, while similar and overlap, does have nuances that make them different.

[knkali]

Understand your point and the nuance but still a semantics issue.

Thank you but I did need to explain my position better.

[Longitude Zero]

knkali you and I are like two blindfolded men trying to describe the same animal only by touching it. LEO's are mandated to use only the "minimum force necessary" civilinas are held only to doing what is "reasonable" to conclude the encounter. Similiar by vastly different.

As to training Google can be our friend. There are quite a few but care is needed. Look at each website and there prospectus/curricula and see if it fits. Sadly or maybe for the better most trainers require you to take a general weapons handling course first to advance to the higher level courses.

Cost of the 3-5 day training courses is not cheap and this day in age neither is the ammo. a good example about trainers is what Bruce Lee once said when asked who is the greatest martial arts expert in the world. He replied some obscure little onld man in a rice paddy. So you might found a fantastic self defense shooting trainer right in your own vicinity who is known only locally.

Good Luck in your quest for ever exacting improvement.

[knkali]

LZ, I like your analogy. However, the training to help in the decision making process seems nebulous at best. Plenty of guys to train you in the mechanics of shooting though. I have a class this weekend and another in two weeks with different instructors. I will ask them to see if they know of something out there that is more specific to what we are discussing. If I find anything, I will post it on the forum. I'll start my Google such with parameters like "real life", "self defense" & "shooting school" I have heard of schools that LEO go to that have large wrap around projector screens that play out scenarios and LEOs have to learn when to draw and shoot given different scenarios. This is all computer controlled stuff. I have seen articles about this stuff but I cannot find any now that I want to check them out more closely. If anyone knows of such a place, please post it up. Could make for a nice vacation/weekend get away.

[Bawanna]

It's called PRISM or FATS. I've shot it several times and it's a kick. I think it's really an eye opening system and fantastic training.

The system allows you to create your own video's using your own people in familiar surroundings.

The guy running it can really mess with you. For example a guy may come running out with a gun or a knife and then later say let's try it again, so you know what to expect except with a key stroke, this time it's not a gun or a knife but a cell phone etc.

I was actually offered a job running the machine at a local range. They were gonna set it up in one of the bays. Charge people to go through it. They did a sample weekend, don't recall what they charged but guys would shoot, and go right to the end of the line to do it again.

They used to bring the trailer all set up with this stuff, screen and all to our dept once a year and the guys got to go through it. They let me go through it and I got to do it everytime they came. I knew the guys who ran it, remodeled their houses back in the day, both retired LAPD SWAT guys.

[Longitude Zero]

Exactly Bawanna. Those computerized simulators are FANTASTIC.