Questions on Z.

[muggsy]

Should Zimmerman be found guilty of first or second degree murder will the verdict make you less likely to use a firearm to defend yourself. If Zimmerman is found guilty in this case will it make you less likely to use you firearm to defend someone else. Finally, if Zimmerman is found guilty will you be more likely or less likely to participate in a neighborhood watch program.

[knkali]

great post Muggs

Yes the trial has influenced me either way I will need to compose my thoughts before I explain

[deadeye]

At this point I'm not sure. Like knkali I have to think about it. Right now I think this whole show has to do with PC and race more than anything else. Had the roles been reversed I don't think we would have even heard about it. It's a shame after all we've been through to see racial ugliness raise it's head again.

[Bawanna]

Easy question for me.

We don't have a block watch or neighborhood watch but I'm the captain, just nobody knows it. I watch the neighbors and homes even outside my neighborhood when I'm driving through. I believe mail carriers should be deputized and given radios to call in suspicious stuff, nobody knows a neighborhood like a mail carrier.

Guilty or not guilty will have zero influence on my carry wardrobe or my decisions to use them to defend myself or others as the situation calls for as I and I alone see it.

I DO NOT look for trouble, I don't hang out in bars, I don't fight, I don't argue and if the gun comes out very bad things are happening.

Doing what's right should be everyone's sole mission in life. You let bad guys be bad guys because you don't want to offend them and they will take over the world. You look the other way because it may appear that you are racist for profiling or sterotyping and they will take over the world.

PC is seriously bringing this country down, right back to the stone age which in and of itself might not be a bad thing.

I'm thankful that hopefully things will maintain at least a tiny bit of normalcy or at least what's left of it for my days left on earth. I'm certain my kids won't be so lucky but that is their battle to fight, I'll continue my fight and hopefully save them some grief but my optimistic attitude is waning big time.

This alleged trial should have no effect whatsoever on gun laws, or anything to do with self defense or stand your ground or do you want salt on your popcorn. This is a Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson stir the pot circus and that is all.

Sometimes I think they had it right in the old west where Sheriff shoots bad guy in the face, they throw him in a box and plant him and break for lunch.
Less lawyers back in those days.

[muggsy]

I've come to the decision that the Zimmerman decision will have no effect on my decision to shoot. I will continue to be on watch for trouble in my neighborhood.

[RevRay]

I'm pretty new to the whole carry scene, but I don't think the Zimmerman trial will affect me at all. Zimmerman may not have gone looking for trouble, but he was on an active neighborhood watch in a closed community. Right now my main sense of how I might use my gun is either inside my home or if threatened with bodily home somewhere else.

[getsome]

Real good question Muggs, Yes this trial has made me stop and think about what situations I would pull and fire my pistol and what other situations that I would call 911 and let the Police handle....If someone was robbing me and I thought I could pull and fire without being shot or killed I would do it without a doubt...If I came across someone else being robbed and I thought I could intervene without getting shot or killed I might BUT I would really think about it first and would most likely call 911 and stay on the phone and give them the best information I could until the Cavalry arrived....

My neighborhood watch will involve me watching from a window if my neighbor is being burglarized and telling 911 whats going on and giving them the best discription of the perps and their vehicle I can, no way in he!! am I going out there and confronting them myself...Now if they break in my house they better be the one worried about confronting me because I will be armed and I will shoot.....

The big thing on my mind right now as this trial winds up is if Zimmerman walks scott free I still got to ride the commuter train to work that on a normal day is full of gangbangers and punks and I can't carry a pistol with me to work...This has me worried because there's definitely going to be some trouble and I don't want to make the news like Reginald Denny did!!!....

[deadeye]

I went to Wally World and for a motorcycle ride today. Carried both times. Would only use it if I had to. Like Bawaana I avoid trouble if I can. But if I or any of my family are threatened I would use it in a minute. Let the chips fall where they may. My earlier post way a gripe against PC. My life stays the same.

[gunshinestateCW9]

I agree with Bawanna!

[muggsy]

If I were in fear of my life I would carry to work, or take a day off. My life is far more important to me than any job. My job has never been my life. My job is just what I did to have a life. I was looking for a job when I found the one that I was currently doing and I'm sure that I could find another.

[jocko]

Should Zimmerman be found guilty of first or second degree murder will the verdict make you less likely to use a firearm to defend yourself. If Zimmerman is found guilty in this case will it make you less likely to use you firearm to defend someone else. Finally, if Zimmerman is found guilty will you be more likely or less likely to participate in a neighborhood watch program.

not be found guilty of 2nd degrfee murder. take that to the bank,now that fokking judge is now alowoing them to come back with a mansalughtyer charge which I think sucks, as that was not what he was charged for. but again it is gonna take 6 to convict and I just see a hung jury on the manslaughter charge but a definitey aquittal on the 2nd degtree thing.

I hve carried for over 50 years, never had to draw andI have statedon this fourm that I willprotect my family with my life but I am not gonna protect YOUR family with my life. Rob a bank and I am in there, and as farasI am concerned for ME no harm no foul. Calise,u might call it but Z has shown IMO what can truly happen when u think ur doin right and now he has to live with it the rest of his life and he willbe a marked man for the rest of his life. Neighbor hood watchs in some areas are just down right dangerous. In my area, it is surley not,. It look sto me like Z did try to call in his report but then things just went bad after that. I really don't carry to protect YOU,now I shold say never say never to but that is the way I would approach an incident.:Amflag2:

[Bawanna]

Ok, Jocko does NOT have my back. Check.

[ltxi]

What Bawanna said. He just saved me a whole bunch of typing. Circuses are just that....fun to watch but not germane to how I conduct my life. And I would not have put myself in Z's position, at least not like he did.

[ltxi]

Ok, Jocko does NOT have my back. Check.

yeah, wow.

[Bawanna]

What Bawanna said. He just saved me a whole bunch of typing. Circuses are just that....fun to watch but not germane to how I conduct my life. And I would not have put myself in Z's position, at least not like he did.

Good point that. I would not have been in that position either. I would have been more observant and I most likely would have shot him in the face on approach and not had to suffer a broken nose and abrasions to my head. I have a low pain threshold.

[MD_Vet]

Public Service Announcement: Always remember to check the age and race of your attacker before defending yourself.

Credit... Adolf Von Cracka (https://twitter.com/Bidenshairplugs) (TWITTER_

[CJB]

The only thing I can say is that killin' ain't pretty. Justified or not. I have no reservations about using arms to defend myself. If I need to, I need to. Considering the alternative.... it may be the lesser of two evils, but I'll take it.

Gotta remember, when talkin' about the fear of losing one's life, its not really the thought process that happens. What happens is you have a very very bad dread, and fear of what might come next. Its not whats already happened, its not retalliation that makes one use the weapon, but instead, its the fear of the unknown future, and the forboding that the current circumstance has generated. The action is to stop imenent or further harm. In such a case... I trust my own judgement.

[jqunac]

I understand you jocko. No heroics only necessity. The law will condemn your actions if not perfect.

[Longitude Zero]

Sadly I am concerned the jurors may be swayed to go for manslaughter to avoid the riots. I got news for them there is one community (turds) that will riot no matter what.

The prosecution knew they did not prove there case and now it is oh, oh, we did not meet our burden of proof so give us a break. I say let the prosecution swing and twist in the wind.

[ltxi]

The only thing I can say is that killin' ain't pretty.....

Pretty much depends on the killee. Imo and not sarcasm.

[downtownv]

The burden of Proof is on the Prosecutor not the defense.
If faced with life or death or eminent bodily harm, I wouldn't hesitate. I just don't put myself in those environments to begin with. I am always aware of my surroundings and a subtle reach would more than likely dissuade a potential problem.

[CJB]

Pretty much depends on the killee. Imo and not sarcasm.

Well, I've been known to kill a bottle of bourbon.... come to think of it, that wasn't pretty either!

[ltxi]

Well, I've been known to kill a bottle of bourbon.... come to think of it, that wasn't pretty either!

Now that can be true. Circa 1980 I was visiting my then girl friend in Tucson. We finished off a bottle of tequila. I put it up on a fence post, and "killed" it with a .45. It kinda exploded and we had to dig a chunk of Mexican glass out of her Great Dane's shoulder. Only thing that saved my ass is that it was her idea. Still, it wasn't my finest hour.

[yqtszhj]

Anybody ever had their nose broke? I've had it happen to me twice and both times when it breaks you see stars, and you may fall down.

Hypothetical situation here:
If "T" punched "Z" first and broke it, "Z" would possibly hit the ground. Then if T jumped on top and kept pounding him when and if "Z" started coming to, he would have thought he was being killed and would know he had great bodily harm. He's gonna shoot. In my state if he provoked T he would be guilty if there were eye witnesses. In this case there are none so if they find him guilty of anything it's a shame. Not that Z was in the right but no one can prove he started the trouble.

Back to the original question, I wouldn't be in Z's spot but if I was I would have to do the same.

Next to attempt to avoid all cute comments, I got mine fixed so it ain't ugly any more, but not pretty either but it never was.

[muggsy]

I had my nose broken twice. Once by a fist and once by a thrown beer bottle. On both occasions my eyes teared immediately. On both occasions blood gushed from both nostrils. The punch stunned me momentarily and the bottle put me on the ground. On both occasions I had two black eyes that were close to swollen shut within a just few hours. A broken nose is exceedingly painful. Had I had a gun on both occasions I would have shot.

[ltxi]

Never had my nose broken but did once get hit in the face with a baseball bat...just under my nose. It was rather disorienting/incapacitating. Gun or not was irrelevant at that point.

[knkali]

I have broken my snazz two or three times. Forgot exactly. It isn't fun but I am still extremely good looking.

Back to the original question. This trial and after some banter with members here, I questioned if having a gun is ultimately worth it. I started a thread of same in the past: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=18990

So yes the trial has made me think deeply. Also it has made me aware of how reporting a situation could get ugly fast. It has also made me(along with Mugg's statements about carrying in other threads) very much more likely to limit any chance of deadly force to protect me and family only. That doesn't mean don't get involved, it just means that involvement is more than likely limited to reporting the situation and rendering first aid if necessary or just making your presence known can deter situations from happening. This trial has illuminated how quickly you can throw your life away. The very one that you are trying to protect in the first place. So much so that my new home defense strategy is( I got this from a Muggs post) if an intruder comes into my home and I am in the bedroom, I will not go investigate. Instead, I will lock my bedroom door and call 911. There is nothing in my home(no kids) worth putting myself in that judicial microscope for. If the intruder makes his way into the bedroom then good luck to him. I realize there are always exceptions to every rule and I will leave it at that. So yes this trial has effected my ccw views regardless of the verdict.

[BixBix78]

This is about race because the government made it about race.. Now we find out the .D.o.j. helped out in protests

Years ago E Holder said paraphrasing (we have to change the way the youth feel about guns)

It is about the government wanting to people to think it is about race and threaten riots to force a conviction which will make us law abiding folks think twice about defending ourselves.

This is part of the ongoing effort to reduce firearm ownership and the continuing erosion of our god given rights

[TheTman]

I'm not making any changes due to Z's trial. Like others, I tend to avoid trouble spots, and I will continue watching my neighbors house. I don't get involved in situations that don't concern me. If I saw something obvious, like a group of kids beating an old man, or holding a girl down and raping her, I would probably have to do something about that. If I was in a store being robbed, (depending on if it was a lone gunman or not), If he was alone, and I had a clear shot at him, I might take it, IF there was a very good chance no one else would get injured. But WAY more likely I would take mental notes and relay the info to the cops and let them handle it. No good deed goes unpunished usually, so I'd be worried If I took the robber out, his gun would discharge and hit some one else, or something else along those lines would happen.

[OldLincoln]

My position hasn't changed since I posted this (http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=240866&postcount=28) in the "Is it Worth It" thread.

[knkali]

My position hasn't changed since I posted this (http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=240866&postcount=28) in the "Is it Worth It" thread.

That is pretty much what I subscribe to right there.

[Jeremiah/Az]

I have had my nose broken 2 times. I can tell you that you cannot see for the tears. If "Z" got Sundayed, as he contends, he probably went down & didn't have a chance to get up. He does not look like a fighter, as the marshall arts instructor testified.

[WLEEP]

This tells me everything I need to know about how this is going to work out, UNLESS, the jury follows the LETTER OF THE LAW:

http://www.infowars.com/judge-in-zimmerman-case-pressured-by-obama-administration/

Then check out the home page here with the New Black Panther Party declaring Unrest All Over America if Zim is aquitted. :mad:

[muggsy]

not be found guilty of 2nd degrfee murder. take that to the bank,now that fokking judge is now alowoing them to come back with a mansalughtyer charge which I think sucks, as that was not what he was charged for. but again it is gonna take 6 to convict and I just see a hung jury on the manslaughter charge but a definitey aquittal on the 2nd degtree thing.

I hve carried for over 50 years, never had to draw andI have statedon this fourm that I willprotect my family with my life but I am not gonna protect YOUR family with my life. Rob a bank and I am in there, and as farasI am concerned for ME no harm no foul. Calise,u might call it but Z has shown IMO what can truly happen when u think ur doin right and now he has to live with it the rest of his life and he willbe a marked man for the rest of his life. Neighbor hood watchs in some areas are just down right dangerous. In my area, it is surley not,. It look sto me like Z did try to call in his report but then things just went bad after that. I really don't carry to protect YOU,now I shold say never say never to but that is the way I would approach an incident.:Amflag2:

Jocko, I don't expect anyone to have my back. That's why I carry. But rest assured, if I didn't know you from Adam and you needed help, I'd call 911 for you. Just sayin'. :)

[jocko]

Indianapolis is have what it is called Black Expo week (12 days, blacks canj't count either) and it all happens right down town in the circle. The cops are neverous, they have set up cameras, more lights, horse patrols. motorcycle patrols, bike patrol, cops walking all around. They have had this expo for about 5 years in Indy and every year there is violence. now I just don't see this sh!t happening with a white function. but they know troulle will be there and with the Z trial coming to an end way before this expo is over they think it will be a real violent affair. This is a high end area of Indy and right down around the circle where it all takes place. Get this sh!t. the department even held a prayer meeting for the officers for this event, and the cops went and seen the gang leaders around the area and told them they know who they are so they best not be around the area. BULL FOKKING SH!T.

\Let the riots begin:hungry::hungry:

[jocko]

Jocko, I don't expect anyone to have my back. That's why I carry. But rest assured, if I didn't know you from Adam and you needed help, I'd call 911 for you. Just sayin'. :)

in all honesty, I would expect no mpore from u or any utter by stander. Sometimes when we poke ur noses in utter people issues we get our noses busted by both sides.:Amflag2: Might be a cold statement for me to make but I don't preach this macho sh!t either. I mind my business and try to stay out of utters peoples business or issues. Sop far has worked for 70 years. I am to old to run, certainly to old to fight, so I guess I would have to shoot someone and I really don't want to do that:Amflag2:

[Bawanna]

Count on me Jocko, I got your back. I don't dial 911. I take macho tablets in my Wheaties every morning. I'll put up a 30 foot perimeter around you and face shoot anyone who breaks it.
I think 30ft is good, that way I'm far enough away if you start shooting too, (by the time you get the PMJ out of your pocket) I'm not in danger of getting hit as long as I stay real still.

[ltxi]

Count on me Jocko, I got your back. I don't dial 911. I take macho tablets in my Wheaties every morning. I'll put up a 30 foot perimeter around you and face shoot anyone who breaks it.
I think 30ft is good, that way I'm far enough away if you start shooting too, (by the time you get the PMJ out of your pocket) I'm not in danger of getting hit as long as I stay real still.

Jocko's PM9 gots to be so shot out by now that 15 foot max would be safe.

[getsome]

Did somebody say "Frau Blucher" ???....:75:....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIID_TGwhM

[jocko]

[QUOTE=Bawanna;251976]Count on me Jocko, I got your back. I don't dial 911. I take macho tablets in my Wheaties every morning. I'll put up a 30 foot perimeter around you and face shoot anyone who breaks it.
I think 30ft is good, that way I'm far enough away if you start shooting too, (by the time you get the PMJ out of your pocket) I'm not in danger of getting hit as long as I stay real still.[/QUO

with friends like u colonel I don't need any enemies.Muggsy wants meto get a honder and sink my PMJ9 and u make fun of my shooting abilities. Wow. I know how Z feels now.:Amflag2:

[johnatw]

I think all this hoopla might cause a person hesitate for a second or two to defend hisself which could mean the difference between life and death. I'm older than Jocko, can't run or fight so I'll have no choice but go for it.

[fatdog]

Bawanna is 100%.

[swilcher7]

Indianapolis is have what it is called Black Expo week (12 days, blacks canj't count either) and it all happens right down town in the circle. The cops are neverous, they have set up cameras, more lights, horse patrols. motorcycle patrols, bike patrol, cops walking all around. They have had this expo for about 5 years in Indy and every year there is violence. now I just don't see this sh!t happening with a white function. but they know troulle will be there and with the Z trial coming to an end way before this expo is over they think it will be a real violent affair. This is a high end area of Indy and right down around the circle where it all takes place. Get this sh!t. the department even held a prayer meeting for the officers for this event, and the cops went and seen the gang leaders around the area and told them they know who they are so they best not be around the area. BULL FOKKING SH!T.

\Let the riots begin:hungry::hungry:


Really now, that's news to me!! The last time I checked, I could count!!!

[jocko]

good for u...

[swilcher7]

Yeah, good for me....

[tx_native]

I will always prefer to be in Z's place rather than T's place.

[ltxi]

I will always prefer to be in Z's place rather than T's place.

Wait until you're my age. Might rethink that.

[tx_native]

Wait until you're my age. Might rethink that.

hah. touche.

[Longitude Zero]

Not Guilty!!!

[b4uqzme]

Should Zimmerman be found guilty of first or second degree murder will the verdict make you less likely to use a firearm to defend yourself. If Zimmerman is found guilty in this case will it make you less likely to use you firearm to defend someone else. Finally, if Zimmerman is found guilty will you be more likely or less likely to participate in a neighborhood watch program.

Thanks Muggs. Good question. My answers: no, no and no. I will continue to actively avoid confrontation and situations that could lead towards violence. I will defend life, anyone's life, if absolutely necessary, and within my means, and in response to legitimate threat, without hesitation.

[ltxi]

Not Guilty!!!

Really??? If true, cool!!! and let the riots begin.