New AO M1 carbine 1st range report

[Jeff023]

Finally took my new Auto Ordnance Carbine out to the range on Friday and had lots of fun, even with some of the expected small problems. First, here are a couple of very lame IPOD photos--it was raining outside when I got back so I took them indoors--I will do better soon:




http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/Jeff23_01/009.jpg (http://s695.photobucket.com/user/Jeff23_01/media/009.jpg.html)

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/Jeff23_01/007.jpg (http://s695.photobucket.com/user/Jeff23_01/media/007.jpg.html)


I used PPU 110 grain FMJ ammo for this test and fired 150 rounds at paper-plate size targets at 50 yards, using the iron sights that come with the rifle. To be honest, I wasn't expecting much. I have to wear glasses to read, and for pistol shooting I generally wear 1X safety glasses just so I can see the sights clearly.

But I was very pleasantly surprised by the little rifle! It comes to the shoulder very easily and the sights line up naturally, the rear sight is basically a sort of ghost ring, and since the front blade is far enough away, I was able to see it clearly and--best off all--quickly. Target acquisition in a tense situation would be very fast! Much more so than my Mini 14 with its little 1-3X scope, and that's saying a lot, since it's pretty darned easy to get on target too. Recoil, as expected, is quite minimal, and I think this helps quite a bit with accuracy. It did want to shoot just a touch low, but that may have been me, not the rifle. I wasn't shooting off the rest, but did use the bench for arm support.

I fired groups of five for about two hours, stopping for range cease fires and to mess with the magazines (I'll get to that in a minute), and I shot no group over four inches. All but a couple were around or under three inches, and toward the end I parked five rounds inside a 1.5" circle; you could have knocked me over with a feather! I am a mediocre shot at best, so for me this was pretty good.

Now to the problems. The mag that came with the rifle seated ok--I only say "ok," because it dropped out once while shooting. Also, it usually took two or three tries to slingshot the first round out of the mag, up the feed ramp and into the chamber. Once this happened, however, feeding and functioning were flawless. I'm used to operating semi-auto pistols, so I know how to release the slide and let it do the work. I'm thinking that the first round loading problem will diminish after I get more rounds through the rifle, so I'm withholding judgment on that. I'm thinking at least 500 rounds for a break in. I had field-stripped and cleaned the rifle before going to the range and did the same after the shoot. I am tempted to polish the feed ramp a bit--any suggestions about doing that or bending the mag lips open a tad would be appreciated. I of course don't want to do anything that will void the warranty.

The other two mags, which I had ordered new from Auto Ordnance, simply wouldn't seat in the well. I tried easing them in, smacking them home, wiggling them, lubing them a bit, etc. No luck. I wrote AO an email about this so I will see what they say.

All in all, I think this will turn out to be a great purchase once it is broken in and I find some working mags. Alas, I'm limited to 10-rounders because of where I live. I ordered a pro-mag, although I've always heard they are a bit iffy. And I've got bids down on a couple of original GI mags on ebay. I'm hoping to go back for another session this week and will report back here. My best to all!

Jeff

[b4uqzme]

Thanks for the post. I was looking forward to it. One of the mags I just bought will seat but kept dropping. I found you really have to man handle it but that's ok. Slam it in and jam it rearward ... And it works fine. As for feeding. You are right. It gets better as you shoot. Have fun.

[Jeff023]

Hey from your avatar I see we share something other than a love for the m1 carbine. I'm a Clapton fan from waaaaay back. First saw him while I was in high school in 1970!

I'll try some more muscle on the mags--I sorta banged up my right hand already banging on em lol.

[yqtszhj]

Good report. Thanks. My oldest son wants to get one. IF he finds one I know he'll pick it up.

[Jeff023]

Most welcome. I spent a bit of time with one of the spare mags tonight. I took a dead-blow hammer and used the soft plastic end. Pushed the mag deep into the well, squeezed the mag release and wiggled it to make sure I had it all the way in, then tapped it judiciously with the hammer back toward the rear of the well. After about ten minutes of this not working and the mag dropping out, Voila! It snapped into place. Soon I could do it with just my hand--I'm not sure what keeps them from seating--possibly the two little nipples on the rear of the mag, which come painted--I note that the paint is worn off the mags there once they start to work.

Also, after the latest clean and lube (I use CLP Breakfree), the bolt will now stay locked rearward when I depress the retaining pin. Things are starting to free up. I'm hoping to get back to the range Monday for another 150 rounds or so.

[b4uqzme]

Hey from your avatar I see we share something other than a love for the m1 carbine. I'm a Clapton fan from waaaaay back. First saw him while I was in high school in 1970!

I'll try some more muscle on the mags--I sorta banged up my right hand already banging on em lol.

Yeah. Seen him a couple of times. My forum name also tributes one of Clapton's songs; "Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself..."

Those nipples on the mag hold it in place. Not sure what was interfering for you but you gotta get the mag seated far enough for them to catch and hold. Again, a little muscle fixed it for me. Sounds like you are well on your way.

[b4uqzme]

Also. Is your stock really dry? I've been oiling the crap outta mine and it's shaping up nice, darker, smoother... Just hand rubbing with a soft cloth.

[kerby9mm]

I have one that my Dad bought through the mail (vefore the gun control act) that he paid around $20 for. It has General Motors on the barrel. Army surplus naturally but I remember how nice it shot as you said with minimal recoil. Have not shot it for at least 40 years but I remember what fun it was.

[Jeff023]

b4, I'm ashamed of myself for not picking up on your screen name :) That's a favorite of mine. I'm just generally a blues fan, so of course I love hearing him play Crossroads--I know, it's kind of a cliche, but I like it anyway, lol.

What are you using for the stock, regular old linseed oil? Mine is really dry, yes. I've been distracted by the mags and break-in so haven't stopped to think about the stock yet.

Kerby, if that GI issue rifle has all matching parts and is in good condition it's worth around $850-1000 now. More if you have the bayonet and other stuff that goes with it, or if its a rare model!

If mine gets to the point where it's functioning really well I'm going to promote it to my main HD rifle. First though it has to run flawlessly through several mags. But it's lighter and faster to deploy than my mini-14. Being an old guy, I don't have an AR or other evil black rifle--I like wooden stocks for one thing, just can't work up any love for polymer or plastic. Am I too old-fashioned?

[Jeff023]

Here's an update to my last update, lol. I was amazed to get this email from Jay D'Andrea in Kahr customer service this morning (a Sunday no less!):

"Good morning. I am sorry to hear about the experience. We would like to see this rifle at the factory. If you can reply with the serial number and your telephone number I will have a RMA setup.

Kahr Customer Service
508-795- 3919"

As I said, I'd written them a note about the feeding problems with the first rounds and the problems getting the mags to seat. Anyway, I'm going to take them up on it--never hurts to have the factory refine the functioning, and maybe I'm missing something they will catch. I will of course post here when I get the rifle back.

Jeff

[CJB]

need to get some linseed oil on that stock!

Does the AO M1 Carbine follow the original pattern? I know some M1carbine's of years past (Plainfield?) had major deviation from the military pattern.

[b4uqzme]

Certainly not a bad idea. Keep us posted. Maybe you will learn something that can help us all. I suspect this is not the right product but I have been oiling the stock with Balistol and it seems to be working. That's another natural oil like linseed. Although the former is probably a better choice. Went to the rifle range today and ran another 150 rds thru. Had a blast. Pun intended. This is certainly worthy for home defense. Especially since, like you, I haven't done the black rifle thing yet. If you get a chance, post a review of that mini14 in other firearms. That's on my radar. i have a chance to pick up a new one for $200 under list. Is that good?

[b4uqzme]

need to get some linseed oil on that stock!

Does the AO M1 Carbine follow the original pattern? I know some M1carbine's of years past (Plainfield?) had major deviation from the military pattern.

I am not the expert but yes I believe the AO is very close to the original. AO was a supplier for some of the original parts. I think the whole point was to capitalize on that experience and tooling..

[Jeff023]

b4, I'm planning on taking the mini-14 to the range on Monday. I'll shoot it at 50 and 100 yeards and post a range report. It's a really good rifle. I think I paid about $600 for it back in '05 or thereabouts. It's a Ranch rifle, which means it throws the empties sideways so that you can install a scope over the receiver.

I've seen them locally over $850, but this is CT, where they're at a premium because they aren't classed as "assault weapons" unless they have the folding stock or have been re-stocked.

They're not super-accurate, although I think there are things that can be done to get them to shoot 1" or less groups.

[certified106]

Very nice rifle!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[b4uqzme]

b4, I'm planning on taking the mini-14 to the range on Monday. I'll shoot it at 50 and 100 yeards and post a range report. It's a really good rifle. I think I paid about $600 for it back in '05 or thereabouts. It's a Ranch rifle, which means it throws the empties sideways so that you can install a scope over the receiver.

I've seen them locally over $850, but this is CT, where they're at a premium because they aren't classed as "assault weapons" unless they have the folding stock or have been re-stocked.

They're not super-accurate, although I think there are things that can be done to get them to shoot 1" or less groups.

Jeff, I went ahead and bought a mini14. I like it alot but I like the m130 much better. Light and easy shooting and I am more accurate with the m1. Gonna go ahead and sight the mini in again plus I have a scope coming. Should be fun. Might have to ante up for some better ammo if I want some accuracy. Been shooting wolf and tula. Never expected to enjoy semi auto rifles this much but these are great and they will get shot alot.

[Jeff023]

Hi All--

b4, glad the mini is working out for you! I had mine out on the range the other day (I usually shoot Federal Eagle range ammo or PMC), and it was fine. At 50 yards, it's all in the ten ring; at 100 yards, it's usually in there :) This is shooting with my elbow on the bench, not off a rest or led sled. I have a 1-3X Bushnell scope on it, which works out pretty well. I hear the most recent ones are more accurate than the earlier model. Mine's fine for what I expect of it--If I want sub-moa groups I get out my bolt-action Ruger M77.

Also, I finally got my M1 back from AO today! So it was about a month, which is what they say on their website for turn-around on long guns. The work order says they "reworked the magazines and magazine catch." It doesn't say so, but I can see they also polished the feed ramp. It still had back paint or blue on it when I had the gun before, but now it's nice and shiny. I will head to the range on Monday, weather permitting, and will come back and let you all know how it goes. I must say that they were good about communication and doing the service. The service rep I talked to was Jay D'Andrea, who was quite professional and even checked on the status of the job for me after the rifle had been there for awhile.

I'm happy to have it back--really missed shooting it!

[Wolverines]

If I told you how accurate my AO carbine is at 100 yards you guys wouldn't believe me so I won't. I will say it bests any USGI carbine I've ever shot and I've shot a lot of them. The AO bests them by a good margin. I know it's not fair to compare a 70 year old rifle against a brand new rifle but even if the USGI rifles were new I doubt they would be as accurate as the AO is.

[b4uqzme]

I agree Wolverines (not Michigan I hope) WELCOME. I really cannot explain it. I'm not sure whether it's the AO carbine that's so accurate or whether I'm just more accurate shooting it. Either way, I hits what I aims at. :D

Not so with the Ruger Mini14. I just checked the sights with a laser bore sighter and they are dead on...but somehow I'm still shooting left. The sights are real similar :confused:

[O'Dell]

Hi Jeff, welcome to the forum, BTW. I remember shooting one of these little jewels at the range when I was qualifying with the M1 and 45. That was 1960, but I remember I really liked the little carbine. We qualified the M1 on the 200 yd range, but shot the carbine at 100 yards. I recall it had no recoil to speak of and was quite accurate. I even thought about buying one 10 or 12 years ago, remembering in the 60's you could buy them all day for $50. After the initial sticker shock, I bought a Hi Point carbine.

[Pointblank]

This makes me want one. Nice rifle.

[Jeff023]

Well, it's been quite awhile, but I thought I'd report back. After a couple more trips to the range, my M1 AO carbine was still jamming, usually because the cartridges weren't going up the feed ramp smoothly. I sent it back to the factory a second time, and it was back in about three weeks. It now works much better--they said they made alterations to the mags (not sure what--maybe pried the lips back a bit?). They now seat well and the shells go up the feed ramp much more easily. It's favorite brand of ammo seems to be Armscor FMJ, which feeds and ejects very nicely. It also worked well with Sellier and Bellot FMJ and Magtech FMJ. I tried some privi soft points and it shoots them but still jams open every so often. Accuracy was fine--all in the X ring at 50 yards, as long as I was paying attention.

I've put 450 rounds thru it so far and it does seem to be loosening up. Any ideas re: getting soft points to function really reliably would be welcome, although I don't really mind sticking to FMJ. I have some Remington FMJ that I want to try next. The little rifle is a joy to handle, point, and shoot--very light recoil of course. Here in CT, I can only have ten-round mags, but it's still a solid HD weapon I think.

Best to all--should I try polishing the feed ramp with Flitz or something else? Messing around with the mag lips? Or just leave well enough alone?

[100percent]

My wife has one. She hardly shoots it. Wish the rear sight had an elevation adjustment.

[b4uqzme]

shoot the Fokker... in time you will probably find it reliably feeds more various ammo. Really glad it is running better for you.

[Jeff023]

Thanks b4--nice quotation in your signature, BTW. I'm pretty happy with it, think I'll keep shooting, oiling, cleaning and see what transpires :-)

[oklahomaguy]

Jeff023, I replaced the recoil spring and magazines springs with Wolff springs. I then changed out the magazine release with Fulton Armory release (Easy change out). The magazines seat better and there are no hiccups. I use Auto Ord., KCI (Korean) and Keep Shooting magazines. I shoot Auguila and Magtech ammo. Hope this helps.

[Jeff023]

Wow, thanks for the advice. I'm not the least bit a gunsmith, so what you describe sounds challenging. But maybe there are some videos on how to do it.

The rifle's shooting ok now as long as I keep it fairly clean.

[oklahomaguy]

Edit, I replaced the magazine catch (not release) with a Fulton Armory part.

[oklahomaguy]

Jeff023 it is not challenging at all. There are videos on how to change the magazine catch. It is literally a 5 minute job. It made a big difference in how my magazines were seating, resulting in better feeding. My AO now runs flawlessly.

[Jeff023]

Ok, I'll take a look on youtube--thanks alot for the help!

[Jeff023]

ordered the part from FA :)

[oklahomaguy]

Good, I hope it works as well for you as it did for me. Also, if you are having problems with loose heat shield (metal hand-guard) you may wish to purchase the Type 2 or Type 3 barrel band from FA. These have the screw at the bottom. I noted that the AO barrel band spacer was too wide, and did not allow the screw to go in sufficiently, resulting in loose heat shield. Others on M1 forums have complained about this. You would need to remove the front sight with a punch or better yet with a front sight removal tool. I bought mine from Matrix Precision Parts ($21.00). You can review this process on video; really simple process.

[Jeff023]

Luckily, I don't have a heat shield--I'm very happy with the rifle, except for the magazine issue. Mine's really accurate--it shoots better than I do, lol. But I am thinking of it for HD, so need to feel that confidence that it'll go "bang" every time!

Maybe I'll try the wollf spring for the magazine's too. Thanks for the help! IF I have a problem may I let you know?

[oklahomaguy]

Yes, I don't pretend to be an expert, but these are the things I did after reading articles and threads to make my AO more reliable. I was also having an occasional failure to feed. My AO has become my favorite shooter. By the way, the KCI (Korean) mags work really well. I have noted that others have had good luck with them also. They are also much cheaper than the AO mags and have a bolt-open follower.

[ulflyer]

Jeff, I don't know anything about the AO Carbine, but I do know a lot about GI M1 Carbines. Get a GI mag, or find some KCI (Korean) mags. They are highly thought of in the GI Carbine world. Do an online search and you'll find them. I have some brand new still in the wrapper GI mags I'd sell but they aren't cheap ($30). You can prob find KCI's for half that.

http://www.jgsales.com/m1-carbine-15rd-kci-magazine,-blued-steel,-new.-p-3142.html

[Jeff023]

Ulflyer, thanks for the info! Alas, I live in Connecticut and can't buy mags for over 10 rds. I did get a couple from keepshooting.com, going to try 'em out when the weather warms up.

[ulflyer]

Ulflyer, thanks for the info! Alas, I live in Connecticut and can't buy mags for over 10 rds. I did get a couple from keepshooting.com, going to try 'em out when the weather warms up.

Perhaps your elderly relative left you a couple of GI mags he brought home from WWII? Whats wrong with that? Like, they were dropped off during a visit in 1980 or thereabouts as a souvenir. Surely you could use those.:)

Edited: Just looked at CMP Forum and came across this thread about 10 rounders. Looks like if your old relative left you a mag, you'd not be able to use it. One
responder did note that the ones you ordered are good mags, so thats a positive.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=150161&highlight=round+mags&page=2

[Jeff023]

Ya, I'd have had to "declare" any mags I had over 10 rounds last year. Connecticut should be thought of as a small communist country, something like Cuba, lol :)

[CJB]

Been lurking this thread a while...

Love the M1Carbine... great handy little weapon. Shoulders great, generally shoots reliably (sorry for your mag issues) and is easy on the shoulder with recoil. And they're adequate in accuracy at most ranges where the enemy or bad guy would be encountered. Only problem is, they won't even stop a mad dog unless you whack 'em in the head with the butt of the stock. Great handy little shooter though!

[b4uqzme]

^^^ all I know is it kicks the crap out of pop cans... Just sayin'.

[CJB]

Yup!!!!

[b4uqzme]

^^^ ;)

[CPTKILLER]

I will guess that you are correct on the break-in.

[ulflyer]

Been lurking this thread a while...

. Only problem is, they won't even stop a mad dog unless you whack 'em in the head with the butt of the stock. Great handy little shooter though!

Ummm, good thing Audie Murphy didn't know that.:rolleyes:

[threedogdad]

Mine has gone through 700 rounds of Prvi, Armscor and Aguila ammo so far without a hitch if using the factory mag, but it hates the KCI mags; just hates them. I bought 4 and can't get through more than 4 or 5 rounds off at a time without trouble. And they wobble around in the magwell like crazy. Not a good fit.

[ulflyer]

Mine has gone through 700 rounds of Prvi, Armscor and Aguila ammo so far without a hitch if using the factory mag, but it hates the KCI mags; just hates them. I bought 4 and can't get through more than 4 or 5 rounds off at a time without trouble. And they wobble around in the magwell like crazy. Not a good fit.

How well do GI mags fit? If you haven't tried one, they are readily avail with a little search and run about $25 or so.

PS: GI Carbine owners on the CMP.com forum think highly of KCI mags. You might want to offer them for sale there.

[Riverkilt]

Range report on my new .30 M1 Carbine from Auto Ordinance.
Ran 75 rounds of Sellier & Bellot through. Had the original mag and four Korean mags.

Best part was the sights were right on out of the box. Dead on shooting. Had one oversize round that stuck on the way in to the chamber. Got it out. Had 2 failure to fire's. Attribute all to the Czechoslovakian ammo which was "on sale." You can have any two of price, quality, or service.

So, most pleased with the initial results at the range.

[SIGWolf]

Were you shooting at 50 yards from a rest of off the shoulder? I'm not much of a rifle gun, but it seems that 4" at 50 yards from a rest even with iron sights is a large group. I'm not criticizing your shooting, just wondering about how accurate the rifle is, what it is capable of doing. I've looked at and wanted one of these, but haven't yet bought one.

[Riverkilt]

Not sure you're addressing me since I didn't mention group size. But, just in case. I was shooting freehand with a sling, standing up, from various locations, shooting at different objects - some were targets - at ranges from about ten yards to 100 yards. Was also shooting at a 3" ball that someone left. No bench, no sandbags, just standing and shooting. So no target patterns. Just when I aimed at something I hit it short range, mid range, long range. Most pleased with that.

And, to clarify, this is a rural range, not fancy. The rifle range I was on is just a long bulldozed out trench with berms on either side and target holders here and there. No range officer. Just me and the M1. Hope that helps

[Bawanna]

Sounds like my kind of range, my rifle, my pony and me! I'm partial to being alone when I shoots.

[Riverkilt]

Just back from another stand at the local gun club range. Ran 75 more rounds (last of the Sellier & Bellot Czech ammo thank God!) through the M1 with the usual failure to fire and another one too big for the chamber. Other than that I'm in love with this carbine!....I can't miss with this gem. Shooting freehand standing with sling. Put up a bunch of targets from 25 to 50 yards and dead on with them every time. Very very pleased. Looking forward to another stand at the range with the American Eagle .30 caliber ammo I found this week.

And, last night puttered around and secured the handguard properly...was loose and crooked. Now straight and firm.

[b4uqzme]

^^^^^ +1. It's uncanny how easy it is to shoot the AO M1 rifle freehand with open sights.

[TheTman]

My brother has an army issue M1 carbine he was thinking about selling back in 2012. I forget who made it, but was one of the normal manufacturers of Army issued M1's. Might have been Universal, but I can't say for sure. It's in pretty good condition, and he shoots it once in awhile. Maybe some minor dings in the stock is about all that's wrong with it. It shoots fine, and I think he has 2 30 round mags. I know he has at least 1 for it. Comes with the sling and stock mouned ammo patches as seen in the photo.
If interested, Send me a PM with an offer and I'll see what he says. Here is a crappy pic I took of it:
12075

[Don F]

Just back from another stand at the local gun club range. Ran 75 more rounds (last of the Sellier & Bellot Czech ammo thank God!) through the M1 with the usual failure to fire and another one too big for the chamber. Other than that I'm in love with this carbine!....I can't miss with this gem. Shooting freehand standing with sling. Put up a bunch of targets from 25 to 50 yards and dead on with them every time. Very very pleased. Looking forward to another stand at the range with the American Eagle .30 caliber ammo I found this week.

And, last night puttered around and secured the handguard properly...was loose and crooked. Now straight and firm.


I have had really good luck with Winchester 110g FMJ, PPU 110g FMJ, PPU 110g JSP, Aguila 110g FMJ and GI ball ammunition.

[Captain O]

Thanks b4--nice quotation in your signature, BTW. I'm pretty happy with it, think I'll keep shooting, oiling, cleaning and see what transpires :-)

I just ordered four Keepshooting magazines. (At nearly $16.00 each + $9.00 shipping, I hope that they're worth it). Are they?