PM9 Chambering

[Dan49829]

Thank you to all who responded about chambering a round in my PM9.

Yes, the PM9 will chamber the first round if the slide is hand racked properly (sling shot).

The PM9 will chamber even better if the magazine follower is reshaped. Based on suggestions from others on here, and elsewhere, I found that using a rat tail file to change the angle of the plastic follower (causing the front of the round to be at more of an upward angle), seemed to put more tension on the rounds and the top one didn't flop around as much.

This allowed the first round to feed even while riding the slide - however when I took that follower out of the 6 round magazine and installed it in the 7 round magazine, it did not help.

Apparently, that one extra round was enough (stacking effect) to negate any benefit from changing the angle of the follower.

I planned on discarding any follower that I modified before trying this, unless the results were so conclusive (and repeatable) that I could feel comfortable carrying them - so will be replacing this one.

I love the size, accuracy, trigger (especially the trigger) and quality of the PM9, but they sure dropped the ball on these magazines!

[JimC]

I love the size, accuracy, trigger (especially the trigger) and quality of the PM9, but they sure dropped the ball on these magazines!

I would have to agree.

The Kahr magazines, at least for the CM and PM pistols, seem to be the Achilles heel or Albatros around the necks of Kahr customer service. :o

Until they find a way to remedy these problems, they will continue. :mad:

I will say that my 5 magazines for my PM9 are currently holding their own and are giving me no problems.

As a side note and not to hijack this thread but, I was looking at the Springfield XDs pistol in .45 ACP as a possible new EDC pistol until I read that they are having reported problems with light primer strikes in both the 9mm and the .45 ACP. I stopped looking because it seem that Springfield CS won't own up to the problem.

Kahr isn't the only gun company with product problems. ;)

[jocko]

Thank you to all who responded about chambering a round in my PM9.

Yes, the PM9 will chamber the first round if the slide is hand racked properly (sling shot).

The PM9 will chamber even better if the magazine follower is reshaped. Based on suggestions from others on here, and elsewhere, I found that using a rat tail file to change the angle of the plastic follower (causing the front of the round to be at more of an upward angle), seemed to put more tension on the rounds and the top one didn't flop around as much.

This allowed the first round to feed even while riding the slide - however when I took that follower out of the 6 round magazine and installed it in the 7 round magazine, it did not help.

Apparently, that one extra round was enough (stacking effect) to negate any benefit from changing the angle of the follower.

I planned on discarding any follower that I modified before trying this, unless the results were so conclusive (and repeatable) that I could feel comfortable carrying them - so will be replacing this one.

I love the size, accuracy, trigger (especially the trigger) and quality of the PM9, but they sure dropped the ball on these magazines!

HOW ABOUT TAKNG THE 6 ROUND magazinespring andinstallingitin the 7 jround magand giveit a try. Somehavereported good results. Ver easy to check out , no mods needed...:Amflag2:

[340pd]

How much did you take off the followers? I dissembled the mags and I just wrapped some 600 grit sandpaper around a rod and ever so slightly lengthened the follower groove. That solved all my racking issues with both my 6 round and 7 round mags.
Are you sure you got the mag spring re-installed correctly on the 7 rounder?

[jocko]

two good points there 340pd!! Just sayin

[RevRay]

I've noticed with my CM9 and my hollow point bullets that if I don't let the slide go when I rack it it will jam. If I ride it just a little bit it takes enough off the spring load to allow the rounds to nose dive and get hung up. But if I pull her back and let her rip she's just fine.

[D78999]

I have a brand new CM9 (only had it a week). I found the 6th round feed jam issue as soon as I loaded the pistol for the first time. Just to be clear - the 6th (top) round nose dives and jams against the bottom end of the feed ramp. Mine never mis-feeds with less than 6 in the mag, by the way.

So, I surmised that the problem was two-fold. One, a geometry issue with the pistol itself.....and two, something wrong with the magazine as regards how the 6th round is held.

I found, in subsequent testing, that the magazine sits just a bit too low in the mag well, in order to present the top round at the right angle for perfect feeding. The reasons for this could be several, but all I am interested in is a solution. I found an EASY one, requiring NO mods to the pistol. Simply place your little finger UNDER the mag and push up, as you rack the slide (or sling shot the slide from the open position). This will lift the slide in the mag well a bit, when the slide is open, thus presenting the top round (6th round) better for feeding. Works EVERY time.....at least with MY pistol. The "little finger trick" is ONLY necessary for the 6th (first round). After that, everything works fine. It is only needed with 6 in the mag (in my pistol, anyway). So, I've found it to not be an inconvenience at all.

As for the magazine, that is tricky. The 6th round requires quite a lot of force to insert and tends to hang up against the mag lips because of the high spring pressure. Since the feed problem does NOT occur with less than 6 in the mag, it seems obvious that the problem centres around how tightly the top round fits in the mag. Clearly, the mag spring is completely collapsed upon itself, or virtually so, when the 6th round goes in, thus the force required increases (over the force required for inserting previous rounds). So, it would seem that the mag spring is too long. So, I simply removed ONE coil from the mag spring, then bent the cut end to match the original configuration. Voila. MUCH BETTER. The feed issue is almost gone just with shortening the mag spring, but still occurs sometimes. As a result, I believe that removing a 2nd coil MIGHT be the ultimate solution. However, as my CM9 is not yet fully broken in, I will wait to see if further break-in will solve the remainder of the issue.

In any case, the modded mags are easier to load (the 6th round goes in easier) but are just as secure....and also using the "little finger trick" provides 100 % feeding reliability (for MY pistol, anyway)....so I consider the problem to be nearly 100 % solved. I will see how things go when my CM9 is fully broken in.

Thought I would share what I found.....

[magtf388]

I would have to agree.

The Kahr magazines, at least for the CM and PM pistols, seem to be the Achilles heel or Albatros around the necks of Kahr customer service. :o

Until they find a way to remedy these problems, they will continue. :mad:

I will say that my 5 magazines for my PM9 are currently holding their own and are giving me no problems.

As a side note and not to hijack this thread but, I was looking at the Springfield XDs pistol in .45 ACP as a possible new EDC pistol until I read that they are having reported problems with light primer strikes in both the 9mm and the .45 ACP. I stopped looking because it seem that Springfield CS won't own up to the problem.

Kahr isn't the only gun company with product problems. ;)

I had an XDs in 45 and had way to many "CLICKS" when there should have been a "BOOM!" After a few trips to SA factory I was told the could not repeat the issue and that I was doing something wrong. The they said run the gun very, very, very wet. So much oil that one could not CCW the gun w/out a large ink spot. Oh well.

On the subject of mags foe the Kahr I spoke with Bowie not long ago who said the same thing, it is the on hitch in the kiddy -up of an otherwise great system.

Anyone with sure "fire :p" fix please share. My New/used pm9 was inspected yesterday in detail and seems all mags are together right and w/out issue but a range trip will tell.

[wtim]

The fix is in the manual. With the slide locked back insert a full magazine and then trigger the slide release. I tried racking a round like you do with any other semi-auto and had so many nose dives after the first round that I finally did what the manual says and haven't had an issue since.

[RevRay]

I've noticed with my CM9 and my hollow point bullets that if I don't let the slide go when I rack it it will jam. If I ride it just a little bit it takes enough off the spring load to allow the rounds to nose dive and get hung up. But if I pull her back and let her rip she's just fine.

Having re-read what I wrote above got me to thinking ... I've noticed that I am not consistent with my efforts at sling-shot loading of the first round. Sometimes I do it fine, and other times I hold on too long and get the nose dive. Perhaps its just that I need to keep practicing, but a related question has come to mind.

When I'm carrying, I now have gotten used to carrying with one in the chamber no problem. But I'm not yet comfortable with keeping one in the chamber with the gun next to my bed. My reason is because I'm not always at 100% functional mode when I wake up in the middle of the night. So I have been concerned that with one in the chamber I might not be as safety-conscious as I should be initially. So here's my question, since my sling-shot loading is not always the same, should I leave the one next to my bed with the slide locked back ready to then be released using the slide stop release lever? Or, should I just load one less round in the chamber and sling-shot it? With one less round I never have a problem using the sling-shot method.

I'm just curious to hear what kind of feedback you all would give. Thanks.

P.S. I don't mean to take over the thread ... I just thought it was a closely related question.

[jocko]

if it wasd me and ur thinking like u are,I wuld keep the gunwith the slidelocked back and a fullmagin thegun, walla, hit the release lever and ur good to go. won'ttake asplit second to do that. Trying to hand rack at night when just waking up, could be a diseaster. I personally keep my K9 loaded and ready to go in my nightstand drawer. No kids in my home now, just thewife and I and at my age,I ain't got time to screw around tryingto sligshot aperfect round..15 feet away o the livingroom bookshelf is my loaded PMJ9 ready to go. Inmy den above my computer in the cabinetis my utter PMJ9 loaded and ready to go. I don't considermyselfparanoid either an I live in a safe town to but anunloaded gun is not my MO..

[Ikeo74]

I vote for loading 1 short, leave the slide closed and rack it if it is ever necessary in the middle of the night. Less chance of a negligent discharge that way when you are still half asleep.

[RevRay]

Slide Release - 1 ... albeit by Jocko

Sling-Shot one Lite - 1

Keep the answers coming guys ... and gals.

[340pd]

Yes, using the slidelock is a very positive method of chambering the first round in a Kahr. It may very well be why Kahr still refuses to make magazine follower, or feedramp modifications to their small guns.

I feel it should not be necessary to have to use that method to get the gun functional. All fighting classes teach their students to grasp the slide and rack by hand. If this is your ingrained method, I believe it should be applicable to every semi auto I own including my precious PM9.

Another situation may arise where one would need to put a round in the chamber quietly. Hard to do if you only use the slide lock.

I choose not to spend a lot of complaining about the factory magazine configuration as I believe Kahr is aware of many people's complaints but still chooses to force you to use the slidelock. I would love to see someone manufacture a high quality replacement magazine for the Kahr guns that addresses both the mag drop and follower issues.

Fortunately I have been able to, with ease, make minor alterations my own magazines to work to my total satisfaction, and my PM9 functions like all my other semi autos, both the six and seven rounders.

[codegeek]

for me, it's not so much as having to use the slide lock method, but being able to carry my weapon with a full magazine + 1 in the chamber. I don't want to fire my weapon and have the first round of a fully loaded magazine nose dive, which is what it was doing before I applied the mod to the follower.

I second jocko's recommendation to take some tension off the spring. My 8 round magazine with the 7 round spring worked much better. I haven't tested it since modding the follower, something I need to do, as I have found the Progmag 7 round magazines work flawlessly out of the box.

[jocko]

it does seem though from reading hundreds of posts, that after a few hundredrounds they ALL can hand rack with ease, so why unich thesystem when it does work. Kahrs recoil springs are the stoutest in the industry, that in itself tends to lead towards racking issues, but one soon adapts to it. the recoil system of kahrs are what they are,u either accept it and work within it or peddle it and buy something easier to hand rack

[jocko]

Yes, using the slidelock is a very positive method of chambering the first round in a Kahr. It may very well be why Kahr still refuses to make magazine follower, or feedramp modifications to their small guns.

I feel it should not be necessary to have to use that method to get the gun functional. All fighting classes teach their students to grasp the slide and rack by hand. If this is your ingrained method, I believe it should be applicable to every semi auto I own including my precious PM9.

Another situation may arise where one would need to put a round in the chamber quietly. Hard to do if you only use the slide lock.

I choose not to spend a lot of complaining about the factory magazine configuration as I believe Kahr is aware of many people's complaints but still chooses to force you to use the slidelock. I would love to see someone manufacture a high quality replacement magazine for the Kahr guns that addresses both the mag drop and follower issues.

Fortunately I have been able to, with ease, make minor alterations my own magazines to work to my total satisfaction, and my PM9 functions like all my other semi autos, both the six and seven rounders.



FIGHTING CLASSES; WTf, how do they teach a one armed person to load a weapon or an injured person arm or hand to load. You should learn both ways PERIOD.some guns are not even made to load with a locked open slide.Rohrbaugh comes to mind.. the little ruger lcp has a slide lock but it was never designed to be used to load, with the release lever.. One can see the way te slide cut is made andfigure that out..

I never understood why some make a big deal out of hand racking as the only way to do it right. that IMO is pure B.s. some guns require hand racking for some don'teven lock open on the last round. I can assure u a women will be far more successful using the slide release lever on ANY KAHR over the hand racking methond. Why compare kahrs to g glocks or sigs or whatever in the fokk gun u think is better for certain reasons? If u feel u gotta load a round "quietly" then IMO a kahr is ot for you. Chances are ur not gonna slow poke a round in akahr, u mght cal lthat design error, I just call it shooter error.. I have not seen a gun yet that does ALL THINGS PERFECT. I bein a lefty, they all make umn ass backwards for me but one adapts or just moves on... I adapted:Amflag2:

:amflag::amflag::amflag:

I wonderif George Z had a certificate from Al's fighting gun school if the jury might have looked at him differently. Just sayin

[Ikeo74]

I still say if Kahr would pre-stress the springs in the recoil system and the magazines, they would eliminate all these problems. Put them on a viabrating machine and compress each spring 500 to 1000 times and then insert them into the new guns and the guns wouldn't even need the 200 round break-in. That would be taken care of by pre-stressings the springs. After all, the 200 round break-in is prestressing the springs.
Kahr-Techs, you don't even have to pay me for this advice.:Amflag2:

[Rangermed]

I would have to agree.

As a side note and not to hijack this thread but, I was looking at the Springfield XDs pistol in .45 ACP as a possible new EDC pistol until I read that they are having reported problems with light primer strikes in both the 9mm and the .45 ACP. I stopped looking because it seem that Springfield CS won't own up to the problem.

As an owner of an XDs .45 AND a Kahr CM9, I can honestly tell you I have never had ANY problems with either gun. If you read into most of the ones that claimed light primer strikes, most of those were caused by either not cleaning the weapon properly and gunk getting into the striker channel, or, while oiling the gun, getting something in the channel. Either way, it was not initially the fault of the gun itself. The Kahr I bought for my wife and the only complaint she had was basically the strength of the recoil spring as it was hard to retract the slide (still is, but it only has 150 rounds through her so far)
Not flaming you, just saying don't count the XDs out yet! I've run 300 rounds of different ammo through her so far with no hiccups whatsoever. Good luck!:D

[JimC]

As an owner of an XDs .45 AND a Kahr CM9, I can honestly tell you I have never had ANY problems with either gun. If you read into most of the ones that claimed light primer strikes, most of those were caused by either not cleaning the weapon properly and gunk getting into the striker channel, or, while oiling the gun, getting something in the channel. Either way, it was not initially the fault of the gun itself. The Kahr I bought for my wife and the only complaint she had was basically the strength of the recoil spring as it was hard to retract the slide (still is, but it only has 150 rounds through her so far)
Not flaming you, just saying don't count the XDs out yet! I've run 300 rounds of different ammo through her so far with no hiccups whatsoever. Good luck!:D

I didn't consider you remark(s) to be flaming. :confused:
I based ny opinion on info from the XDTalk Forum. There is a thread that is 30+ pages long about the light strike problems with both the 9mm and .45 ACP XDs pistols. THIS causes me pause.
Too much talk about changing the springs to get them to run properly. This should NOT be.
I had the opportunity to see and handle the XDs in .45 yesterday at Cabela's in Hamburg, PA.
For the most part it seemes like a nice pistol. It seems solid. The mag appears well made. The OEM sights suck! I don't care for the red fiber optic FS at all. It is quite a bit larger than my PM9 but not as large as my G27.

[OldLincoln]

I follow the Tim Taylor school, more is better. When my PM9 choked on 147g +P HST I got the stiffest recoil spring and stiffest mag springs. It chambered good after but had a small hitch with the nose dragging on the ramp. I polished the ramp more but ended up modifying the mag lips just a bit to hold the top round the same as the others and we all lived happily after. Seems the top round was spreading the lips a twitch (that's a RCH more than a titch).

[Ikeo74]

I have a XD45c (compact) 4" for my car gun. I have never expearianced a malfunction and the recoil is not bad at all.

[Retlawman590]

I have a XD45c (compact) 4" for my car gun. I have never expearianced a malfunction and the recoil is not bad at all.


I'll second that! I also have xn XD40sc with not a single issues after 500 rounds in both. I'm still intrigued by the PM9.