Change Magazines

[rpc]

I have (4) mags. Keep (2) loaded at all times. How often should I rotate mags. in order to keep springs in good working condition?

[Bawanna]

I have (4) mags. Keep (2) loaded at all times. How often should I rotate mags. in order to keep springs in good working condition?

There's many different schools of thought on this, heres mine. Make sure to keep it cataloged as an opinion.

I think with modern technology in the spring business and especially Wolfe springs in particular the old days of springs taking a set are over. Load em forget em and no worries. BUT, I still swap mags at least every 60 days, usually every 30. I try to hit a range minimum once a month and more often as money / time allow. The mags I carry are the first ones down range and hence rotated. This use to be quite an issue but not so much anymore.
About 3 years ago give or take I acquired a Colt 1911 directly out of a WWII duffle bag, fully loaded with an extra mag still loaded and untouched since 1943. The man who owned it started to unload them but I requested he leave it as was. I took it to the range after cleaning and oiling but untouched mags and it fired flawlessly both mags and they work to this day. Guess they didn't take a set.
Just my 2 bits here, follow your gut on this one. Don't take much to swap em.

[jocko]

I have (4) mags. Keep (2) loaded at all times. How often should I rotate mags. in order to keep springs in good working condition?

flaots ur boat. springs are designed to take a set, so more than likely if you pull your week old springs out of the magazine they will be shorter than new factory springs still in the package, BUT they are desinged to take a set, so pay no attention.

Replace as you feel the need. Many have commented that some of the old 1911 Military 45's have still the same ol original springs in them.

Magazine springs are not really espensive and u can buy kahr mag springs form wolffs in paks of 3 cheape rin price than from kahr. Wolffs makes kahrs mag springs.
Sometimes a good indication that mag springs need to be replaced is when the gun starts to fail to lock open on the last round. Keeping a magazine loaded doesnt' really weaken that spring either...

[DKD]

I had a strange occurrance this weekend while shooting my new PM45. I am well past the 250 round mark, probably more like 300 rounds.
No failures to feed or extract, however the gun would not feed using the slide stop as precribed by Kahr. She did early on now only feeds when I rack the slide manually and that was with FMJ ammo...strange.
The rounds seemed to hang up in the middle of the feed ramp. The feed ramp is smooth and well polished....go figure.
Does anyone have any idea...? I like it might be the magazine since live fire accuates the action perfectly.
Inquiring minds want to know.

[ripley16]

I have (4) mags. Keep (2) loaded at all times. How often should I rotate mags. in order to keep springs in good working condition?


It really doesn't matter unless you rotate them ridiculously often, like as in daily. Regardless of how often you rotate them they will spend half their life loaded and half unloaded. A mag can remain loaded pretty much indefinitely with no ill affects. If you change them out whenever you shoot, that would be considered a normal rotation schedule

[jlottmc]

I've always heard that magazines should be kept unloaded blah, blah, blah. They have always been better than that. The ONLY magazines I wouldn't keep loaded are the aluminum AR-15 magazines (that is a mag. body issue at that). Load them up and don't look back.

[In-Yo-Grill]

What wears springs of any kind down is the constant "usage" of them. I.e. shooting and reloading. Keeping a spring compressed doesn't wear it down.

[jocko]

I had a strange occurrance this weekend while shooting my new PM45. I am well past the 250 round mark, probably more like 300 rounds.
No failures to feed or extract, however the gun would not feed using the slide stop as precribed by Kahr. She did early on now only feeds when I rack the slide manually and that was with FMJ ammo...strange.
The rounds seemed to hang up in the middle of the feed ramp. The feed ramp is smooth and well polished....go figure.
Does anyone have any idea...? I like it might be the magazine since live fire accuates the action perfectly.
Inquiring minds want to know.

indeed. I would call kahr and order a new set of recoil springs, there shouldbe nothing wrong with the ones that are in there but I would try this first. sounds like there could be a burr somewhere slowing down the slides action when using the slide stop lever. Make sure the recoil spring is on correctly withe the open end towards the front of the slide. Again, notning I am telling u here makes sense either, but normally springs are the first thing that comes to mind. doe sit do it with both magazines or just one magazine. Take the bad magazine apart and check things out inside...

[Bawanna]

indeed. I would call kahr and order a new set of recoil springs, there shouldbe nothing wrong with the ones that are in there but I would try this first. sounds like there could be a burr somewhere slowing down the slides action when using the slide stop lever. Make sure the recoil spring is on correctly withe the open end towards the front of the slide. Again, notning I am telling u here makes sense either, but normally springs are the first thing that comes to mind. doe sit do it with both magazines or just one magazine. Take the bad magazine apart and check things out inside...

Agreed "again". Sounds more like the recoil spring but again it shouldn't be an issue this early in the game. Remember someone else here recently found a small burr that was easily taken care of and was running fine. I'd make sure the top round is well seated all the way back in the mag so it has a good run at the feed ramp from slide lock. Look good for a burr or hang up point and as jocko mentioned try the other mag and note the results. If mine I'd also make sure the slide rails are well lubed and slippery, your past break in but not by much. Tight tolerances, small gun, doesn't take a whole lot to create a hang up. I'm thinking it's just gonna be a minor glitch and an easy fix once you identify the culprit causing the issue.

[jocko]

How about just reinstalling the slide only, no springs, barrel etc, and slowly moving it back and forth to see if u can feel a burr or something that might slow the slides velocity down. The polymer portion that guides ths slide on, once on should make no contact with the slide anymore. BUT some still do and until the slide wears this area down thorugh usage, it can hang up, or u can find where it is rubbing and just fine sand that area down. If there is a burr, my bet would be inside the slide grooves themselves.

I really don't think it willbe the recoil springs being so new etc, but I know kahr would send you a set probalby for nothing if you explain to them what is happening etc..
Somet hig has defnintely changed since you started shootingit, as u did not state that it was doing it fromt he git go. go with new springs first..

[DKD]

Thank You gentlemen, I'll try the springless slide check this evenning. It was interesting to note that when I finally did get her to load from the slide stop it took a forward motion of the weapon while I hit the slide stop and then she would load....just might be a slight burr.

[Bawanna]

Thank You gentlemen, I'll try the springless slide check this evenning. It was interesting to note that when I finally did get her to load from the slide stop it took a forward motion of the weapon while I hit the slide stop and then she would load....just might be a slight burr.

Please report back and let us know what you find. We can store it in the memory banks for future reference. I'm more and more confident that your glitch is a minor and easy fix. If a forward motion is all it took to make it happen there just can't be a huge hangup. At least I got my fingers crossed for ya.

[jocko]

more than likely just going to take a few 100 more rounds for your 45 to get totally right. It is 99% there.

PM sent.

[wyntrout]

DKD, take the barrel and use your fingers to feel for burrs. One of my guns still had a sharp burr near the bottom of the feed ramp after kahr polished it while they had it. Also see if the plastic of the frame is smooth to the right side of the feed ramp. It seems like the FTF's are to the right a little bit and the cartridge is almost parallel to the rails... dead against the feed ramp.
I keep wondering if there's something going on with the magazine spring and the mag retention slot... because the cartridge seems to nose down when there's this type of problem.
This problem is still open on my P380, but I have new stronger(Keltec, as Jocko suggested) springs for the magazines coming in from Wolff... probably tomorrow and Wednesday I'll have two 500-round shipments of S&B FMJ for the .380 and I'll try to get to the range and see how that works.
When I insert a full magazine into any of the Kahrs, the top round is sitting high and almost in line with the chamber, ready to load, and when there's an FTF, the nose is lower and against the ramp?? Maybe the magazine catch is too long and catching on the spring at some point... hard to tell. I think that I'll eventually try sticking the tube in alone and see how that catch protrudes into the mag tube... and whether it could be impeding the springs movement as it compresses.
NEW THEORY:
Well, I did play around with the magazine tube and the follower. The magazine catch protrudes a tiny bit too far into the tube, I believe, and the follower can catch on that. This is consistent with problems like that I've had with several of the PM types now. What I think is happening is that when you load the mag + 1, you'll get feed on the next two out of the magazine, but the third one is pressed back down in the tube as the slide rides over it pushing the second one out of the magazine into the chamber. This is pushing the follower down just enough that the front of the follower can snag on the magazine catch with the mag's third cartridge nosed down a bit. The stripper catches the rear of the case, but the cartridge is a bit nose down so it butts into the ramp and the follower is snagged there by the catch and the extra compression in front.
I'll wait to see if the stronger springs help, because the Kahr stock springs are VERY WIMPY. If that doesn't work, I'll try a tiny adjustment with my DLT or a stone... whatever. I think that I need to just remove enough of the middle of the catch... kind of a real small scallop, that the follower has nothing to catch on and there's still enough of the sides of the catch to retain the magazine. Then I'll order a new magazine catch since I've d!cked that one up by then.:eek: Maybe I should do that first... order new catches for all of my Tupperware Kahrs. I'm sure to screw up at least one... maybe two each.
Wynn:)

[jocko]

u know wyn, that is one hell of a super idea to. never thought aobut testing that theory out and the way u describe it, such a simple test to even do. One should be able to insert a empty magazine and slowly with something push the follower down beyond the mag catch and listen or feel for a bind or hang up in that area, if it is going to happen. Maybe even with no mag spring and just inserting the magazine and seeing if the follower will slide in the magazine from top to bottom with no hang up. I doubt if the springs will cause it but a follower rubbing against the mag release could slow things down and put that top round at a different angle indeed.

Super idea and one we should remember for down the road..

[wyntrout]

I just edited the previous post, Jocko. I did that test and I'm convinced that I have figured it out.
Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

Magazine catches are only $12.10 and I can get one each for the 3 Tupperware pistols I have for $42.30 including shipping. I'm debating ordering those before testing the new springs. When I get the DLT or some other abrasive tool going, I'll probably screw at least one up.:rolleyes:

I took the catch out of the frame and held it against the tube, probably tighter than in the magazine well, for the testing. The follower can run into it going up or down, but that little up/down when the slide goes forward on cartridge #2 chambering, allows the follower more contact with the catch than usual. The wimpy Kahr springs are very weak or not compressed much at that point, and can't overcome the slight "jam" there.
Wynn:D