Regarding the Fairer Sex

[RevRay]

OK Everybody, Here's a question for those of you who've been around for a while.

I recently had a conversation with my secretary during which she said that she had been thinking that she would like to have a gun at home. She's a single Mom and she lives in a less than ideal neighborhood, so it's certainly an idea worth considering on her part. So I told her that if she got herself a permit (which is not simple in Connecticut) I would help find her a gun.

So my question is simply this, what would be a good gun for a woman who is not an Amazon. Is there any Kahr that is easy enough to rack that it would be ok for her, or am I pretty much going to have to look for another name? She's probably not looking to carry, just looking for something for her home.

[addictedhealer]

I have let my mother and my soon to be wife try to rack my kahr's slide and both failed. Only issue with the kahrs is how stiff the slide is. I would probably say a revolver. J frames are so simple and safe. My o'l lady has taken over my lcr for its simplicity, no hammer just a trigger.

[chrish]

Second the LCR. Good suggestion. Trigger not overly difficult to pull, probably the best stock revolver trigger out there. I don't know that I'd bother w/ the .357. The .38 should be more than adequate w/ modern SD ammo. The .357 in a lightweight snubby like the LCR or a S&W alloy is brutal, particularly for a new shooter (woman or man).

Another suggestion, easy to rack, DAO only trigger (perfect as a HD firearm) is the Sig P250 in 9mm. It gets a bad rap in some circles, but it's a fine firearm if you ask me. I loved mine, but sold it to fund another purchase. Look at the 'compact' version (mid-sized). If the grip is too large, you can order a new small grip frame for <$40.

[addictedhealer]

Second the LCR. Good suggestion. Trigger not overly difficult to pull, probably the best stock revolver trigger out there. I don't know that I'd bother w/ the .357. The .38 should be more than adequate w/ modern SD ammo. The .357 in a lightweight snubby like the LCR or a S&W alloy is brutal, particularly for a new shooter (woman or man).

Another suggestion, easy to rack, DAO only trigger (perfect as a HD firearm) is the Sig P250 in 9mm. It gets a bad rap in some circles, but it's a fine firearm if you ask me. I loved mine, but sold it to fund another purchase. Look at the 'compact' version (mid-sized). If the grip is too large, you can order a new small grip frame for <$40.

I agree, .38 +P are plenty enough. The .357 in 17oz is just to much and I guarantee most girls will refuse after the first shot.

[7shot]

Unless she plans on going to the range on a regular basis, then a Kahr pistol would be on the list of possibilites. If not I'd say get her small frame .38 revolver. Maybe even two, she can go all Josie Wales on someone if she has to.

[nuke]

My wife initially bought herself a Taurus 85UL .38 Special mainly because she had issues racking my CW9 AND, if I was out-of-town on business and she practiced with a semi, she wouldn't want to do the tear-down bit. She currently has a S&W Bodyguard380 that she can work just fine but the whole tear-down aspect is on me. And I recently bought a Ruger LCP which is a tad smaller than the BG380 and as if not easier to use.

If she wants something just for home defense and NOT to carry, then a wheelgun in .38 Special is about as simplistic and easy to operate as they come. Ammo is relatively inexpensive and plentiful on the 'net.

[jeepster09]

I would suggest a 20 guage shotgun. One of the small youth models.

[otium]

A 38 special in the j frame or the lcr may be the ticket. Very simple to use/operate and it does not take much in the way of maintenance to keep it running good. Only negative is the recoil so that could reduce to not doing much practicing at all.

If the revolver is not what she wants, then I'd have her look at the smaller glocks if you do not have to worry about any kind of a 10+1 capacity limit. Some feel they are easier to rack than the Kahr. My sister-in-law found it hard to rack the Kahr and she carries the G26 and does quite well with it.

Your secretary needs to try some different handguns and see what works for her. Do you have a range where you can take her so she can rent a couple different models and types to try?

If she did not grow up with guns in her house or was not in the military, it is a good idea if she can take some professional training on how to use, maintain and properly store a gun. If that instruction includes range training, so much the better. Some courses may be available for "women only" and some women may find that experience less intimidating.

[K9_Two_Tone]

I agree with the previous commenters. A 38 special revolver is less complicated (and safer?) for new shooters. They do not have to worry about racking slides, limp-wristing, clearing failures to feed, failures to eject, etc.

Another suggestion would be to start with a 22 cal. This would help train a novice shooter not to flinch. 22 cal. pistols/revolvers plus ammo would be cheaper. She could practice a lot inexpensively. A 38 cal. would come later.

Another suggestion would be to look for a Beretta 86 with the tip-up barrel. No racking required.

Good luck.

[yqtszhj]

Let her shoot your pistol and see how she handles the recoil. if she handles it OK then you have an idea how she will do. An LCR with +p may be too much for a beginning shooter.

My petite wife likes her Beretta Nano. She can rack the slide but it took some work to get that gun to run reliability. It has more weight than my CM9 and a lot more than my LCP which she shot once and said she would never shoot it again.

If it's for home or car, weight is not that big of a deal. Just some things to think about. A revolver is good but weight and recoil has to be balanced whatever she ends up with.

[Alfonse]

I have an LCR and none of the women at my house like to shoot it, even with light loads. If you look at a revolver, it should be all steel, preferably stainless. The LCR and airweight ones are too light and the recoil is sharp and can be painful.

A Stoeger Cougar is 9mm, easy to rack, and has low recoil. It also holds 15 rounds and is very reasonably priced if a semi is in the running.

My suggestion is go to a range and rent several pistols to try, a revolver or two, a 9 mm pistol and maybe even some .22.

The shotgun is a good suggestion, but with kids they take more room and effort to lock up and store than a pistol.

My humble $.02.

[Planedude]

I see a lot of calls for a J frame, But might I suggest a K frame with a four inch bbl. These steel frame guns are plentiful the weight won't matter in a non carry house gun. The other reason I recommend a K frame is the huge number of grips available all over the place. The right grip can make shooting the gun right for her.

I'll also second the 20gage shotty. I bought one for my Son to keep at a shady apartment he lived in a few years ago. I taught my never-shot-a-gun-before-other-than-a-water-gun Daughter-in-law how to shoot it well one afternoon with less than a box of shells. She was fine with it and felt it was enough for her. In the ensuing couple of years my Son has scratched his SIG itch, twice and he keeps those handy for home defense. But the little sawed off Stevens sat in the special place in the closet steady and ready.
About 10 months ago my Son was working graveyard shift with his wife and young Son at their little house. Around midnight someone started jiggling the front door and finding it locked started fooling with the windows. Alarmed my Daughter-in-law went right past two loaded SIGs to her closet and her little Stevens. She kept the hammer down on it's first click but her thumb on it. when the guy came back to the front door she opened it and latched the storm door. It was by then, all over, the old, very drunk Hispanic guy seemed to speak no English, my Daughter-in-law no Spanish, but the sight of that woman pointing a shotgun made him throw up is hands with a wailing "NOOOOOooooooo..." and he staggered off to someplace else.
It's very simple and with the little elastic ammo holder on the stock, surprisingly quick and easy to reload. I bought it in a pawnshop for $98 bucks out the door...
Good luck on the search.

[yqtszhj]

I see a lot of calls for a J frame, But might I suggest a K frame with a four inch bbl. These steel frame guns are plentiful the weight won't matter in a non carry house gun. The other reason I recommend a K frame is the huge number of grips available all over the place. The right grip can make shooting the gun right for her.



There you go.

[Speckled_Tiger]

My nightstand gun is a Ruger SR9c. My wife had never handled a gun much less shot one. We spent a few 15 minute training sessions at home so she could learn the right muscles to use to rack the slide. Went to the range after that and she had no problems putting 10 rounds in a 8" spread and fully operating the weapon. I believe all self defense guns should have a round chambered at all times so the little struggle she has with that motion is limited in a stressful situation.

[Alfonse]

I do like the bigger revolver idea. My wife and daughter enjoy shooting my 686 and it could sit in storage for 30 years and probably fire every round in the cylinder. But, it doesn't matter what I like.

My daughter and wife expressed interest in pistols so I attended an NRA basic pistol class. Everything from safety to cleaning was covered and then they got to fire some rounds through a variety of pistols.

They each had firearms they preferred. Let her choose, your job it to get her the exposure she needs to make a good choice.

[Bawanna]

You have a 686? Why don't I have a 686?

Definitely let her choose. Give her good options but let her make the call.

[tv_racin_fan]

My wife and I really like our Ruger SP101s. The things are heavy enough that they mitigate some of the recoil issue and she has no problem with normal 357 loads and shot some rather hot 357s without much fuss (she did say she had no interest in shooting those hot loads any more BUT wouldn't have issue IF that was all we happened to have at the time). Plus she likes that she can use 38s IF the 357s were too hot for her.

All that said IF she had not been wanting to be able to carry that SP101 I would have steered her toward a GP100 with 4" barrel. But honestly I got a SP101 for myself, after shooting it at the range she came to my man cave and said she wanted one and so she got one. I simply told her not to complain when I stopped at a gun shop every time until I found one she could afford and the day I found one we had stopped with grand kids in tow, she took em out to hit the bathroom and grab a soda thinking I would be done before she got back, when she got back and I wasn't done yet she said she knew I was purchasing somthing so I just handed it to her and said here is your new handgun and she was fine.

[hardluk1]

If this is only a home protection firearm the 20ga might be the best choice . For a handgun a revolver is simple to learn with and easy if not slower to reload. My girls can rack the cm9 and cw9 I have and shoot them but don't care for them.

Bersa make the thunder 380 series that are easy to rack with weights from 16oz to the double stack 15 round model at 20oz. It make a real solid pick than can be carried too. We have to of there pistols in the family.

My wife is fond of the m&p9c with a extra 17 round mag and X grip sleeve for around the home. Smaller grip fits most hands well.

[Ol'coot]

The S&W J frame .38 Sp is an awesome gun for a lady. It is dependable, easy to handle and the long trigger pull makes it ideal for conceal carry. My wife carries here S&W 642 with CT grips daily. I also have a S&W 442 that is part of my carry rotation they are great little guns.

[Ace22]

+1 on the J-Frame or similar. My wife has a S&W Model 10 that she loves.

[MW surveyor]

Another one for a 20 gauge youth model shotgun.

If not, then a revolver of just about any description if she is not going to carry it. Heavier is better though if she is going to practice with it.

[340pd]

I am coaching group of women tonight on this very topic. First time gun owners IMHO should really look into the revolver world first. Easy to load and unload, no racking to clear a malfunction, and very reliable. If she is not going to carry, a Ruger GP100 or a smaller steel frame S&W with a 3"-4" barrel are very nice choices. I prefer six shot models as you get one more round if needed.


I personally would like to have a set of laser grips on the gun, and teach her how to use them. That red dot on an aggressor just may be enough to stop a threat without the need to fire the weapon. If nothing else the laser will (UNLOADED GUN) allow her to practice trigger control as they may be the best dry fire trainer in the world.

Also remind her it needs to be secured in the home with quick access.
Now you have lot's of Christmas/Birthday gift ideas.

It also may help to make her aware that guns generally hold their value. She can consider it as a investment.

[Bawanna]

I started Mrs. bawanna off with an SP101 in 22 for her first gun of her own. I put Crimson Trace grips on it as a training aid.

She now has a Smith 638 which she gets along fine with. I was so proud when she actually went and go her CCW and actually carries it. I don't like or advocate purse carry but it's better than under you pillow when you need it at the gas station.

I completely agree with revolvers for first guns. You don't have that sneaky chamber to worry about. Pop it open if all the holes are empty your good. Unless you need to shoot of course then that would be bad.

[Sage]

My wife has tried numerous revolvers and autos over the years. She has access to many carry options (my guns and hers). She always goes with the LCR .38. I've asked her why and she says she just feels more confident handling and shooting this particular gun.

[muggsy]

If she is looking for a house gun that can double for concealed carry a CW9 might be a good choice. Full grip. easier to rack the slide and light enough to be carried in a purse.

[kwh]

If a single Mom I would definitely recommend a 20 ga. Reasons. If she needed a handgun that has smaller grips and easy to use (no safety or a DA) it would also be too easy for the children to use. Long guns are visually more intimidating so less likely to be played with and barrels are more difficult to accidentally or purposely point at oneself.( If teenagers and suicide would be an issue in later years.) I would think a young child, but not an adult would have a problem racking a pump. Another possibility would be to use a pistol ( Ruger SR) with a mag safety. Shell in chamber but loaded magazine kept on person at all times. Insert mag and fire, no racking of slide needed.

[jocko]

My wife has tried numerous revolvers and autos over the years. She has access to many carry options (my guns and hers). She always goes with the LCR .38. I've asked her why and she says she just feels more confident handling and shooting this particular gun.

she'sright.It is hwatshe thiks,not us. Thgat is a nice handgun, certainly a handcannon if she shoots it much but again, it is the confidence in thegun and carrying it that has to be #1.

iF i WAS GONNA BUY Y WIFE A HOME GUN ONLY AND NOT ONE TO STICK IN HER PURSE. i WOULD BUY THE JUDGE. Awheelgun is a great choic for a woman, she can load it withease she can unload it with ease, she can clear a jam with ease and a misfire is jusrt pull the trigger again. I would think if a BG hears ANY GUNSHOT in a home, he is gonna sh! his pants. ot sto sure a womenis gonna do much beter hitting anythng if a SHTF situation beit with a wheel gun or semi.. Just my 21 cents on this. Just sayin:Amflag2:

[ltxi]

Irrespective of gender.....I'm a strong advocate of K-frame revolvers for a beginner/non gun person like that for a house gun. Or an SP-101, preferably in three inch. I'd never recommend a J-frame snub for that application. Not even for me. Those are for carry, not primary home defense. As I mentioned before, my wife, who's not too much over beer stand height and not particularly strong, has a 3" HB M65 as her much preferred, primary hand gun. At home, mine is the same in blue, M13.

For the person of whom you speak, RevRay, my suggestion is a nice, clean, older used 4" Model 10. Several reasons....quite inexpensive/well made/accurate/good trigger pull/easy to shoot/many grip choices if the stock ones don't fit well. If she gets along with that and wants to "move up" later, that would be the time to consider different and pricier options.

Also....you said single mom. Haven't seen a mention here about cautioning her about access by kids, but that should be part of it imo.

[ltxi]

she'sright.It is hwatshe thiks,not us. Thgat is a nice handgun, certainly a handcannon if she shoots it much but again, it is the confidence in thegun and carrying it that has to be #1.

iF i WAS GONNA BUY Y WIFE A HOME GUN ONLY AND NOT ONE TO STICK IN HER PURSE. i WOULD BUY THE JUDGE. Awheelgun is a great choic for a woman, she can load it withease she can unload it with ease, she can clear a jam with ease and a misfire is jusrt pull the trigger again. I would think if a BG hears ANY GUNSHOT in a home, he is gonna sh! his pants. ot sto sure a womenis gonna do much beter hitting anythng if a SHTF situation beit with a wheel gun or semi.. Just my 21 cents on this. Just sayin:Amflag2:

Sexist pig. I'm tellin' Melissa you done said that. :19:

[burdicda]

My wife has a S&W Model 642 J-Frame and an NAA 22Magnum mini....both are fail proof, light, and tiny.....

Both for carry not for home defense
For home defense she taps me or reaches over me for the CW45....

burdicda

[CJB]

Sorry to add my thoughts late... works been killin' my time.

When I was active as an instructor, I did five classes a week. I had the opportunity to give classes to as many as 25 individuals per class. The mix of women and men was about 50/50 - some might find that odd, but thats about what it was. Take ten years times five classes a week, times maybe 15 students on average... I don't know the real number... but it adds up to many thousands of students, and one really worn out CJB.

In all my experience teaching ladies, the issue of finger and hand and arm strength was at issue in almost every instance. Few ladies could reliably operate an autoloader safely. End of story. They need to make the pistol safe, they need to load it safely, lock open the action safely, check the chamber safely... decock the pistol safely, ...etc etc. Only a very few ladies could do that, in total, on any type of autoloader. Dexterity also had a factor.

Of the autoloaders, the one that ladies could operate were the flip up barrel type, which were only made by Beretta at that time. They had a nice .380 flip up. The thing with those, is that de-cocking was a problem, but the barrel could be tipped up before decocking was attempted, Similarly, the barrel could be tipped up to load /unload the chamber, and the slide did not need to be manually operated.

By far, ladies selected the hammerless revolver - those with totally internal hammers. Reason being - you cannot have it cocked and easy to fire. There is no need to decock it. You pull the trigger, it goes bang. You press the button, open the cylinder, and its instantly safe and ready to load or unload.

[Bawanna]

That's one of the reasons I went the 638 for my wife. It has a shrouded hammer so it can be c0cked but it's a strong hammer spring and I told her to pretend the hammer isn't there. After she tried it empty she agreed.

I don't like DA pulls much and I'd probably c0ck the thing if I ever had to use it. Just tricky letting it down.

[CJB]

even guys fail at it.... no shame there.

[jocko]

Sorry to add my thoughts late... works been killin' my time.

When I was active as an instructor, I did five classes a week. I had the opportunity to give classes to as many as 25 individuals per class. The mix of women and men was about 50/50 - some might find that odd, but thats about what it was. Take ten years times five classes a week, times maybe 15 students on average... I don't know the real number... but it adds up to many thousands of students, and one really worn out CJB.

In all my experience teaching ladies, the issue of finger and hand and arm strength was at issue in almost every instance. Few ladies could reliably operate an autoloader safely. End of story. They need to make the pistol safe, they need to load it safely, lock open the action safely, check the chamber safely... decock the pistol safely, ...etc etc. Only a very few ladies could do that, in total, on any type of autoloader. Dexterity also had a factor.

Of the autoloaders, the one that ladies could operate were the flip up barrel type, which were only made by Beretta at that time. They had a nice .380 flip up. The thing with those, is that de-cocking was a problem, but the barrel could be tipped up before decocking was attempted, Similarly, the barrel could be tipped up to load /unload the chamber, and the slide did not need to be manually operated.

By far, ladies selected the hammerless revolver - those with totally internal hammers. Reason being - you cannot have it cocked and easy to fire. There is no need to decock it. You pull the trigger, it goes bang. You press the button, open the cylinder, and its instantly safe and ready to load or unload.

with ll the many new semi's out there todayt the statswill still show that women feel better withg a wheel gun be it hammerless or what ever over a semi for the reasons CXJB and what I have said on this forum sine I have ever posted about it. We men think we know best for a women with a gun and most of the time I think we are wrong when we move them to a semi.

I knw there are exceptions to the rule but IMO even more so with kahrs

Myopinion is based on 40 years of selling guns and CJBis basedon "teaching" new shooters for many years. There is some credibility behind both IMO..

[Popeye]

I also agree a SA/DA wheel gun would be the best choice. Semi auto's can be problematic for some women with limited hand strength. Having a semi auto pistol around with one in the chamber can be a bit risky with small ,children in the house. When my children were small I had wheel guns, when they got older I slowly switched over to Semi auto's.
Having said all that and on the flip side of the discussion, there seems to be quite a loyal following among women with the Bersa Thunder .380. Not the best caliber for sure, but HD is not necessarily about killing someone with many women as it is about stopping a threat. My wife and I have had this discussion and she would not want to kill anyone or anything, but she would pull the trigger to stop a threat aimed towards her or the family. I think men have the kill instinct more than most women do. JMHO ..........

[yqtszhj]

We men think we know best for a women .... I think we are wrong


You said it there, just ask them, they'll tell us we're wrong.

[jocko]

I also agree a SA/DA wheel gun would be the best choice. Semi auto's can be problematic for some women with limited hand strength. Having a semi auto pistol around with one in the chamber can be a bit risky with small ,children in the house. When my children were small I had wheel guns, when they got older I slowly switched over to Semi auto's.
Having said all that and on the flip side of the discussion, there seems to be quite a loyal following among women with the Bersa Thunder .380. Not the best caliber for sure, but HD is not necessarily about killing someone with many women as it is about stopping a threat. My wife and I have had this discussion and she would not want to kill anyone or anything, but she would pull the trigger to stop a threat aimed towards her or the family. I think men have the kill instinct more than most women do. JMHO ..........

but as u khow when ever anyne pulls the trigger theyhave noclue to whether they are gonna kill or wound anyone either, so IMO if ur gonna pull the trigger, that shouldnot be anoption. Fire power is necessary, but confindence in the weapon ad the complete ability to use it right is #1 IMO.

Kahrs IMO is definitely not a womans gun, sure some of these gals on this forum might be comfortablebut the vast andI mean vast majority would not be comfortable with a kahr. TheBersa as popeye stated is a nice gun, not sure though other than maybe racking a roundin it,thatit would be any easier for a women to totally operate it, sure no comparison to what a wheel gun can offer, and there are some damn nice "lesser" power 38's wheelguns out there to. Alot of time it is mind over matter to and for women their "minds" are not worknbg like ours does when it comes to guns.
:amflag: Not to say they don't have minds, aswe married men know that they do, and we prior divorced men absoluytley positively know that they dohave minds. Just sayin

[Chuck54]

My wife likes her late father's old 4" model 64 S&W.......also pulls it through double action....that's the way she likes it!

[Alfonse]

You have a 686? Why don't I have a 686?

Definitely let her choose. Give her good options but let her make the call.


I can't believe you DON'T have a 686. You need one. They are a standard in firearms which allow you to have a reference to use to evaluate every other pistol. Not owning one is like being a carpenter who doesn't own a tape measure. Does that explain it enough for your wife?

[Bawanna]

I wrote that down for future reference. I'm looking and have been looking, just need to find the right one with money in hand. Actually that's usually the issue.
One of the officers here is also on the prowl so that doesn't help that I have to search in his behalf knowing full well I want it myself.

And then there's my sought after Schofield whose fund continuously gets robbed for other "must have" items.

It's a vicious circle I tell ya.

[ltxi]

I can't believe you DON'T have a 686. You need one. They are a standard in firearms which allow you to have a reference to use to evaluate every other pistol. Not owning one is like being a carpenter who doesn't own a tape measure. Does that explain it enough for your wife?

I don't have a 686, either. Too newfangled for my taste. Do have four K-frames, tho. In pinned and recessed K's be reference standard enough for me. Favorite tape measure's kinda old too.

[Bawanna]

Most of my favorite things are old. Guess it took em awhile to become favorites.

With high hopes I ran Alfonses line past Mrs. Bawanna. It went over like a balloon, the Hindenburg. Wasn't pretty, almost like the real thing.
Also said I had a co-conspirator as she'd never heard me use such big fancy words.
I thought I had my notes pretty well palmed but guess it didn't work on her this trip. Seems to be getting more and more challenging.

[ltxi]

Most of my favorite things are old. Guess it took em awhile to become favorites.........



Well now, that be interesting. I've always kinda worked in reverse to that. Favorite things eventually became old. And, like my K-frames, didn't need to be replaced with something new/newer.

[Bawanna]

Well now, that be interesting. I've always kinda worked in reverse to that. Favorite things eventually became old. And, like my K-frames, didn't need to be replaced with something new/newer.

Well I guess in retrospect I have to agree more with your system. Favorite things became old, rather than old things became favorites.

One has to wonder where the age line of demarcation is set for old favorite things and not so old favorite things, or even new favorite things.
And perhaps modern replicas of old favorite thing need to be added to the equation.

Complex to be sure.

[ltxi]

Well I guess in retrospect I have to agree more with your system. Favorite things became old, rather than old things became favorites.

One has to wonder where the age line of demarcation is set for old favorite things and not so old favorite things, or even new favorite things.
And perhaps modern replicas of old favorite thing need to be added to the equation.

Complex to be sure.

This be gettin' hard. Very hard. I now plan to drink and ponder. Or ponder and drink. Both be old favorites. I will also consult with wife on the subject during vacation in Maine and get back to you with a consensual find after Labor Day weekend.

One thing I do know fer absolute sure even without wife consult.....wrt the replica thing.....despite my past love of Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, eyetalian, brazilian and other third world country copies of sa revolvers could never, ever make the fav list. Nor even the ownership list for that matter.

[Bawanna]

Man's just gotta know his limitations and draw the line somewhere's. Just get mad dog mean and steer clear of them Brazilian copies.

Consensual?, That's when you don't have a chaperone right?

[CJB]

can someone tall me whats so fair about the fairer sex?

[Bawanna]

You make it sound like it's a thing, I thought it was an act?:confused:

Poor, fair, good, outstanding.

[tx_native]

My wife shoots a Taurus M85 38 pretty good. She cant shoot a semi.

[Deano]

I bought my wife a Ruger SR22 to learn on. Next to zero recoil lets her focus on aim and trigger pull. Next up is a simple .38 revolver for home defense. She can't do the semi-auto thing. Too much for her to think about. Some women can. She can not. Revolver all the way. Pick it up, point and shoot.

[CJB]

You make it sound like it's a thing, I thought it was an act?:confused:

Poor, fair, good, outstanding.

No...it just that they seldom been fair with me. Do this n that, dont sit here, dont pick yer nose, dont scratch yer balls..... life aint fair.....but it could be fairer.

[RevRay]

All's fair in love and war ... it's just more fair for them.

[Alfonse]

Most of my favorite things are old. Guess it took em awhile to become favorites.

With high hopes I ran Alfonses line past Mrs. Bawanna. It went over like a balloon, the Hindenburg. Wasn't pretty, almost like the real thing.
Also said I had a co-conspirator as she'd never heard me use such big fancy words.
I thought I had my notes pretty well palmed but guess it didn't work on her this trip. Seems to be getting more and more challenging.

I'll have to chalk that up to one more line that didn't work with women. :)

[Bawanna]

I'll have to chalk that up to one more line that didn't work with women. :)

Thing is it could work fine tomorrow. I think it just depends on the day.