Big Mistake

[Giortire]

Ok, I got tired of waiting for the CM45, and bought an XDs45. What a piece of junk, coupled with horrible customer service.
The gun had many malfunctions; light strikes, fail to fire, fail to eject, failure to return to battery. I put over 400 rounds through it with about 25 malfunctions.
At this pint I read on several forums that these were fairly common problems. I tried all the fixes, but none worked.
My local gun store, where I bought it (also my gun range) knew about all the problems and suggested I let them send it back to Springfield. I said ok, even though I was fed up and had lost confidence. My gun store called me today and told me that Springfield told them that they had heard of the problem a "couple" of times, even though the problem is all over the web, and that it was due to limp wristing. They told my gun store to send it in, but there was probably nothing they could do. So sorry customer service, for a horribly engineered gun.
Thank goodness I still have my CM9 and CW45, which I have never had a proble with in over a 1,000 rounds on both.
So anyway, when it comes back I will get rd of it, and patiently wait for the CM45!

[jocko]

good way to test out what Springfield was saying was to let the gun shop shoot it at their range. If they can duplicate, then u know Springfield was passin the buck.

Not defending the XD or springfield but limping a gun is very possable, even for good shooters on certain guns.



Didu give thegun a good cleaning before heading out to the range. We have seen kahrs come out of the box with machinery sh!t inside the striker channel etc. Assume nutting when u buy a new gun, assme it is dirty as hell, get to know the gun before that first bang thing happens. It does sond like the gun has issues so not putting the blame on the shooter but just saying u can eliminate these possabilites by letting anutter good shooter test it out.

It is not good to hear Springfield cop this attitude either but it is good to hear that other gun makers do have issues other than Kahr whom when we readon this forum soetimes, it makes people think that only kahr is the bad gun maker..

I have always felt tha tthe propper prepping thread for your kahr will fit most any gun maker to. Sometimes just taking that extra 30 minutes to do little things that shooters have posted tips on can save alot of headaches .

I know, I know, it is a new gun and it outta work perfect!! Well we all know that in 99% of the cases that is true but that 1% sometimes can be helped by a good prepping of his gun, no matter who makes it.:blah:

[yqtszhj]

I have seen too on the web where the XDs is prone to limp wristing. Mine has not had a problem at all though.

But one thing I will say about my Kahr's is I can (if I desired) hold it so loose it hits me in the forehead and they still feed every time. I also have the CM9 and CW45 like you. I love my Kahrs.

[b4uqzme]

Sorry to hear about your troubles but I hope you are wrong. It would be a shame to miss out on a good pistol. But if you are confident you've eliminated the possibilities of limpwristing or prepping -- and if Springfield can't make it right, then I back your decision to sell it off.

I can get my k9 to fail due to limpwristing...not so much my k40. Each gun is different. Each shooter is different too. Both have to mate up.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=18917&highlight=Limpwristing

And there are scores of threads in this forum promoting thorough new pistol prep. Here's hoping your pistol returns all good.

[Giortire]

Hi All,
Just a follow up. I did a detailed strip of the slide, and totally cleaned the striker channel, along with cleaning any shipping gunk. I then put two applications of Frog Lube, at the advice of many people on the XDs forum.( this was after first range trip a couple of weeks ago)
Three people total shot the gun with similar results including, a guy that works at the range/shop.
The bottom line is I believe I got a lemon.
If you read a bit closer on the web, you will fing that most people have ruled out limp wristing as the cause of the problems, even to the point of using a gun vise to shoot with similar issues. I am not saying that it is every gun, but maybe it is 1 out of 30 that has bad machining on some parts.
Whatever it is, I do not trust it, and really did put in the time, shooting many rounds, and cleaning and lubing over and over, the money, for ammo, Frog Lube,etc
There are way too many good guns for me to trust my life to one I consider bad.

[Sage]

I have tried and cannot make my PM9 fail due to limp wristing. My wife shoots it sometimes at the range and has never had an issue.

[b4uqzme]

Hi All,
Just a follow up. I did a detailed strip of the slide, and totally cleaned the striker channel, along with cleaning any shipping gunk. I then put two applications of Frog Lube, at the advice of many people on the XDs forum.( this was after first range trip a couple of weeks ago)
Three people total shot the gun with similar results including, a guy that works at the range/shop.
The bottom line is I believe I got a lemon.
If you read a bit closer on the web, you will fing that most people have ruled out limp wristing as the cause of the problems, even to the point of using a gun vise to shoot with similar issues. I am not saying that it is every gun, but maybe it is 1 out of 30 that has bad machining on some parts.
Whatever it is, I do not trust it, and really did put in the time, shooting many rounds, and cleaning and lubing over and over, the money, for ammo, Frog Lube,etc
There are way too many good guns for me to trust my life to one I consider bad.

sounds like you are doing the right things. guess it's up to Springfield now. I would agree with your decision to sell a Kahr under the same circumstances --- but that could never happen. :cool:

[downtownv]

Sorry you had issues, it's very frustrating but ewill get resolved
Limp wristing? Like this?

[CJB]

very small, short 45's as a rule, have a higher percentage of shooter related issues than almost any other type of handgun

Colt Officer's ACP's are very reliable, but when you get smaller... the reliable ol' 45 loses a lot of its built in overkill of reliability. The PM 45 generally... is a great gun, but there are shooters who just don't get along with it.

I'm sure the same is true for your XDs. Its more than limp wrist, but the way that your hand, arm, muscles react. Even a gun in a vice does not act the same as any gun in the hand.

One thing tho - you gotta use full house ammo. Especially during the break in period.

[jocko]

If as u say other shooters have tested this gunwith the SAME RESULTS and u have lost allfaith..... PEDDLE IT.

[TheTman]

Thanks for the tip. I too am getting tired of waiting on the CM45, and have been looking at the Springfield. I think I'll continue to wait.

[Giortire]

Thanks Jocko, I think it is my only choice.
Tman -I know a lot of people have had good success with the XDs, so don't want to dissuade you. Just do a lot of research if you decide to think about one, and know that there are some of these that just don't work well.
I was not trying to dog out Springfield, just hoping to keep people on this forum from going through what I have gone through.
If this had been one of my range guns (3- 1911s, Ruger P89, Glock 19, Beretta Neos), I would not have worried so much. But for a carry gun, I cannot accept that it doesn't work for me every time.
The whole experience has made me trust my Kahrs even more!
Thanks for everyone's feedback.

[jocko]

I have seen this scenario on K ahr talk before,so it is just not XD. It happens.

You know if you read much on foreign cars the AUDI gets rave reviews, probalby the best in the German industry even. I have a 04 audi that I bought new and trust me when I tell u this has been the biggest POS casr I have ever owned EVER. It stopped nickel and diming me awhile back and ow it is hudreds of dollars each time in. U name it, it has broekn, emmision control sh!t, , coils (all 4of them) fuel pump, compressor (last week), water pump-, 3 powe4r window units (same door). the check engine light has been my best friend for the pastr 3 years. I would never own one again but I talk to utter people who own um and they swear by them. For me I swear at um. It just seems that way anymore with any fokking thing that has a part that actually MOVES. Guns are no different. some no doubt more immune to issues than utters but if u get a lemen, u really could give a rats ass about what utter peoples guns work like. YOURS DOES NOT.

Weallgotta rememberalso that ur gun can be flawless for 500 perfect rounds and that very day u need it in a shtf scenario u hear CLICK. We have no control over that. About the only certain thing is taxes and death and in that order to for ovomit is taxing me to death. Just sayin

[berettabone]

I have seen a lot of them for sale lately.................................

[muggsy]

It sounds to me like you've haven't even given Springfield a chance to make the gun right. I could have it up and running in no time. Gunsmithing isn't rocket science and a gun is far less complicated than a pocket watch. Of course some people have no patience and that's why we live in a throw away society. These guns are mass produced. Very little in the way of hand fitting. A little tinkering can go a long way. If one Springfield XD can be made to work properly, all Springfield XDs can be made to work properly. All it takes is a little effort and thought.

[Popeye]

I think you need to give Springfield a chance to make things right. They didn't get where they are by treating customers badly. Always been my understanding that they had terrific CS. I never had a problem with my XD,s but I have called CS for left handed holsters and they have always been pleasant to deal with. Then again, not every pistol is for everybody. I have heard form many people that the recoil was more than they expected and decided to sell the XDS45 for the XDS9. That's why I was never personal interested in the XDS45. When it comes to 45's for me anyway it's go Big and all Steel.(as in 1911) I had a Springfield Champion that was less than full size and I absolutely hated shooting it. Not saying it wasn't a very nice small 1911 but it was just not for me.

[sharpenit]

It sounds to me like you've haven't even given Springfield a chance to make the gun right. I could have it up and running in no time. Gunsmithing isn't rocket science and a gun is far less complicated than a pocket watch. Of course some people have no patience and that's why we live in a throw away society. These guns are mass produced. Very little in the way of hand fitting. A little tinkering can go a long way. If one Springfield XD can be made to work properly, all Springfield XDs can be made to work properly. All it takes is a little effort and thought.

Muggsy, you're coming across as somewhat smuggsy. Not everybody has the aptitude to be a gunsmith. If you're good at it, good for you, but you can't expect everybody else have these skills.

Anybody who spends as much as Giortire did for his XDs has a right to expect it to work. I agree, Giortire should give Springfield a chance to make it right, but anybody who has been in his shoes understands his disappointment, anger and buyer's remorse. He deserves sympathy, not a smug suggestion that he is deficient because he doesn't know how to fix the pistol himself.

[certified106]

Wow, sorry to hear bout your troubles! I have an XDs45 and have never had a malfunction in over 500 rounds (probably 20 different shooters). My wife has shot it and my sister who is prone to limp wristing guns (even her Bersa .380) and none of us have ever had an issue with it. If your not happy get rid of it as you will never trust it! Sorry for your horrible experience I would be frustrated to!

[cloud]

I also have the xds it has been a good gun. I bet if you called Springfield direct you will be pleased with their customer service.

[Giortire]

Thanks guys,
I did send it to Springfield last week, through my local gun shop. I am just not feeling confident with their initial response, or what others have said about when they sent theirs in with the same problem.
I will give it time and report back on the results. I appreciate the positive support.

[BucketBack]

The 2 XDS that I've shot have been very smooth,reliable and accurate.

Hopefully Springer will make it right, because when the gun is right it's a great shooter.

I had thought about one until the CM9 deal yesterday.

[TheTman]

Tman -I know a lot of people have had good success with the XDs, so don't want to dissuade you. Just do a lot of research if you decide to think about one, and know that there are some of these that just don't work well.
Thanks for everyone's feedback.

I'm really looking forward to the CM45, so it's no big deal. Just getting tired of the wait. They shouldn't have announced it if they weren't going to build it. They say the demand for the CW380 is pushing the release of the CM45 back. I was pretty happy with my CW45, and may just get another one of those. One reason I want the CM or CW45, is I already have the laser for it. I sold my CW45 because it wouldn't feed from the 7 round mag, and Kahr couldn't or wouldn't fix it. I tried all manner of suggestions on altering the mags (thanks Jocko for the help) but never could get them to work reliably with more than 3 or 4 rounds in it.
I wanted to be able to carry the 7 round mag as my backup mag.

[otium]

Too bad yours has given you trouble. My XDS in 45 has worked great and has been very reliable.

It is the one that gets carried most of the time and I prefer it over a cw45 as the total overall height is closer to what I prefer to carry - something around 4.5 inches with the mag inserted. However if I need a smaller/lighter piece for those deeper carry times, then it's the cm9 or j-frame that gets picked.

I think all gun makers experience QC issues from time to time and even more so when a new model comes out or when production is ramped up to the max like it has been since this last panic session started..

Do wish I could pick the day the firearm was built on when I bought it. I would prefer to get one made on a Tuesday or Wednesday over one made before the coffee break on a Monday morning or the last one made on a Friday afternoon.

If a cm45 would have been available when I got the XDS it would have been a contender. I may still get one if the model ever shows up. Since I have the XDS, I'll wait a few extra months after it has actually come out so others can complete the beta testing cycle of the initial release.

I'd say send your XDS back to SA and give them a chance to fix it for you. Once it comes back, if your confidence is still lacking in it, you have done your part and trade it for something else and move on.

[Radman2006]

Sorry to hear about the issues you had with your xds. I've had one for about a year and have close to 1000 rnds through it without a single failure. Hope it works out for you!


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[mr surveyor]

I bought an XDs45 two weeks ago and couldn't be happier. As much as I loath Tupperware handguns, this one is as much a keeper as my CW9. I've only put 100 rounds through it, but 80% have been my lead reloads. Not a single hitch. After another couple hundred rounds and I'll be ordering a proper IWB holster so it can be a "social carry".

Over the years I've had several guns from "reputable" manufacturers that just happened to be in the small minority of lemons, but never trash talked any of them. And that goes for a couple of KelTec pistols out of 5-6 I've owned that just didn't meet minimum standards, as well as one particular S&W revolver, an H&R rifle, and a few others I've long since forgotten. In every case, either the manufacturer made them right, or I chose to let them go and avoid the hassle of warranty return.

Yep, it's a PITA when you're in the 2-5% lemon group, but that don't really sour the 95-98% with the cherries.

[gmcjetpilot]

I keep hearing about this limp wrist.... Of course I am too macho to limp wrist a firearm :p Seriously, has any one tried to shoot their gun intentionally loosely or "limp wrist" to see if they can reproduce problems?

The other way, have someone shoot your gun to see if it is you?